Destati

Lets take some examples from this site already http://www.projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?t=846 Doc, like every other person, expected a regular fight abiding to the Standard rules. Kunaidude comes along and accepts his challenge. The battle is cut short as soon as Kunaidude sends out Groudon, Garchomp and Darkrai. While Kunaidude is yelling about something in broken English, I step in to teach them both about standard battling. Now they are both better. In the end, Doc wears out because no one is abiding to the rules. Everyone is using Pokemon that decimate his team and overcentralize the metagame. Then its followed by Greencat saying something against what I was trying to teach. http://www.projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?t=630 Another battle thread, made by GREENCAT of all people. Despite not knowing that Rotom Forms can't be used online, it looks like a regular battle. By "OU" people immediately think of Smogon's OU list. Also, instead of saying all that stuff though, one could easily say "Standard Rules." http://www.projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?t=241 Simple battle thread. He said Ubers were permitted, so they used Ubers in their fights. Typical Smogon rules. Whenever someone says "Standard Rules," they always mean as SCV calls it, "Smogon's Rules"

pokemonfan, mentioning Jesus is ok. Even non-Christian/Catholic people can agree that not only was he a philosopher but that the morals he taught would make the world a better place if we all followed them. But its stuff outside of that which can annoy people like me. I'm Buddhist, but I believe Jesus existed. I also believe Moses and Muhammed existed and that they all spread their morals. Basically, there's a difference between a moral and a 2000 year old book that people still debate over to this day.

Because they are right. They created a balanced gameplay everyone can enjoy. There's no reason not to like Smogon (unless one of your favorite Pokemon is banned of course) Every other forum follows Smogon. Every forum but us. If you want to have a free-for-all battle with no strings attached, go do it. Problem is, you're not going to get a lot of takers. You'll essentially be constrained to these forums because no one else will want to face a pokemon like Garchomp. Its wrong because thats not how everyone else wants to play and they have no basis for their assumptions. Lets take Manaphy for example. Greencat still refuses to take Manaphy off of the OU list. Why? Who knows. I on the other hand, can provide you with detailed reasons why Manaphy is Uber and breaks the Metagame. And again, I don't know what specifically annoys people about Smogon. I still feel like people here hate Smogon solely because they feel like they need to compete with something.

Aeternus, Abomasnow would win. Basically, its your "fault" for using a move that caused recoil damage. You knew full well that your Infernape would lose. In a way, its like exploding. You're taking the enemy down at the cost of your Pokemon. If a situation like that occurs on Wifi I believe its a Tie. In PBR, you have the option to turn on the clause. I believe what it does is that it prevents the player from using Explosion if they only have one Pokemon left. Otherwise it ends up in a draw. You did nothing wrong in choosing Flare Blitz to be a part of Infernape's moveset so don't think that you're wrong. But by choosing Flare Blitz you know full well that those situations might happen. There's a very slim chance of it happening like that, but it exists nonetheless. SCV, ever heard the quote "Jack of all trades, Master of none"? Well, thats what this site will turn into if we follow your mentality. Smogon litterally has an army of people to get things done. As I said, their statistics are based off of hundreds of thousands of battles. We don't even have 1000 members yet. they have 28k, and thats not including those who just play Shoddy and don't have forum accounts. Its not a one-man job to make a tier list. Its a thousand-man effort. Smogon is not "THE" Pokemon community, but its apart of it. They use Serebii for Pokedex information, Bulbapedia for Event and non-mechanic information and Metalkid/Psypokes for calculator knowledge. At the same time, those respective sites use each other for information as well. Gamefaqs gets their knowledge from everywhere. Thats the Pokemon community. We're the ones that are selfish and attempting to create our own community. There's already one thats been set up for years and years. I really don't see the point in creating one that competes with it. Marrilland tried creating its own community. Its known to every non-Marriland user as a shithole. Libelldra tried a similar thing. It was expected to compete with Smogon. Now the forums get a total of three posts per day. The only good thing they have on that site is the team builder that counts your team's weaknesses and resistances. I really don't want Project Pokemon to be known for one thing, and thats a site where you can download events from. Do you?

please leave your religion out of this pokemonfan. This is an issue regarding a family situation, not one's spirituality.

The DSi has far lesser sound quality than the iPod and I don't even know if it can play movies.

Thats a very... mixed team. Just listing Pokemon isn't enough to create a proper team. You also need to list what movesets they use, as well as which tier you intend on using the team in.

I too would like to see how this forum intends to create its own metagame using nothing but the information random players post on the boards. Also, another thing, why is it so bad to have a site that uses another site's information? I can understand creating a ProjectPokemon Pokedex (to match Serebii's) and wiki (More hack information than general knowledge like Bulbapedia's), but why go as far as creating a seperate metagame? It can't be a pride issue, nearly everyone hates us (but secretely envies us) anyway. I just can't understand it. Its like a State wanting to be apart of the USA but not wanting to follow the Constitution. California isn't a copycat for using the same laws New York uses. Why would ProjectPokemon be considered a copycat for using what everyone else declares to be Standard Rules?

A Balanced Metagame is where no single Pokemon overwhelms the game and permits the usage of a wide variety of characters. Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix is a balanced metagame. Super Smash Brothers Brawl is not. The Smogon testing of Garchomp was one such example. Garchomp was being so overused that people needed to create teams solely to be able to counter Garchomp. Of course, no counter was to be found in the end. Even if a Pokemon like Scizor reaches the usage Garchomp was at, Scizor has counters. Heatran, Zapdos, Bulky Waters, etc. There's a lot. After a single Swords Dance, Garchomp had zero. Anywho, back on topic. Obviously something like that causes an inbalance in the game. So, to remedy it the people who the entire Pokemon community have trusted since their creation performed tests to fix it, and they did. It wasn't one person saying "Oh, Garchomp should be banned," it was a community effort put together by strategists that have proved their worth. Sleep Clause was never a real problem before Breloom. 100% accuracy with Spore. Yeah, thats fair. Sleep the opponent and just use Focus Punch/Seed Bomb a lot. If it weren't for Sleep Clause Breloom could devastate teams be itself. Its not like Togekiss' paraflinch where its just butthurt (hax), its just not fair. Not to mention its also an official Nintendo clause that can be activated in PBR... Also, Nintendo doesn't make competitive games. The community turns their games into competition. If Sakurai really cared about competitive play in Brawl he would have worked on balancing issues far more than he did. 60% of the community wants Metaknight banned, and thats just for SMASHBOARDS where there hardcore players go. Also, Nintendo hasn't banned Garchomp either. To those entering the 2009 Showdown, use Zapdos/Garchomp. Its so powerful its not even funny.

Roms don't contain statistics based off of 1000+ people fighting each other using wide varieties of Pokemon and movesets in long battles to determine which team strategy is superior. They contain other types of statistical data. Not the type we're talking about. Unless you just wanted to take a little jab at me

You keep saying their statistics are worthless. Its those stastistics that made Scizor popular. Its those statistics that lead to Garchomp's ban after it dawned on everyone that he was on 90% on every team. All statistics are made public, Smogon is not a secret conspiracy organization. Statistics lead to the Uber/OU/UU tiers which help end up balancing the metagame. For example, the statistics showed that Zapdos and Heatran were being used a lot as of late. Smogon decided to create a new ladder where Latias was allowed. Using the statistics gotten from that ladder, they could determine that Latias did NOT overcentralize the metagame as expected, but that it helped lower the usage of Heatran and Zapdos on teams due to Latias being a new and versitile counter. Now try and tell me statistics don't mean anything. EDIT: Oh yes, the findings apply to real life as well. We use Latias on wifi and we don't consider it uber. Of course, unless people read the statistics they'll never have any idea WHY it was unbanned.

You keep thinking Smogon's influence only applies to Smogon. How about instead of using cocky language you start speaking like a regular person. Smogon's statistics are the ONLY statistics we have. Its a hell of a lot easier to create a team on Shoddy than it is to make one from scratch, even with Pokesav. Then you need to go through the effort of tracking people down to battle with and then you finally get into a battle with two people. Once the battle is over, its gone. Not even the Vs. Recorder is all that useful. Just answer this. Is Heatran a threat, and do you think teams should be prepared to battle it?

Pokemon Platinum marks the newest phase in the Pokemon Metagame. For a long time, a website named Smogon has been put in charge of organizing the competitive Pokemon scene. Smogon can be related to Smashboards in terms of importance and influence. It has been accepted throughout the Pokemon community that whenever two people battle with each other they follow what we call "Standard Rules." These rules have been fashioned by Smogon.com to ensure the balance of battle. Here is what these rules contain: No Ubers First and foremost, Standard rules deny the usage of Uber Pokemon. These Pokemon overcentralize the standard gameplay and have been deemed too powerful. - Arceus - Darkrai - Deoxys (all forms) - Dialga - Garchomp - Giratina (Both forms) - Groudon - Ho-oh - Kyogre - Latias (with Soul Dew) - Latios - Lugia - Manaphy - Mew - Mewtwo - Palkia - Rayquaza - Shaymin (Sky Form only) - Wobbuffet - Wynaut Why are Garchomp and Wobbuffet banned? Garchomp and Wobbuffet/Wynaut are the only two/three Pokemon deemed Uber who are not legendary. Both have similar reasons. Neither of them have counters. Wobbuffet's ability, Shadow Tag, prevents switch-outs and draws battles into unneccessary lengths of time. Garchomp's ban was established a few months after the dreadul "Yachechomp" set was created. Yachechomp is the name for a Garchomp holding a Yache Berry, one of the 16 berries that decreases the damage of a super effective attack. Yache Berry decreases the power of Ice attacks. This berry essentially makes it so that no Pokemon can successfully switch into battle against Garchomp and defeat him. Evasion Clause Moves that boost evasion, such as Double Team and Minimize are not allowed. Abilities that boost evasion such as Snow Cloak and Sand Veil are still allowed. The item Bright Powder is also still allowed. The reasoning behind this is simple. If moves like these were allowed, the gameplay would be overcome with poor accuracy and would essentially turn into a game based solely on luck. Freeze Clause No two Pokemon may be frozen at the same time. There is no move as of current time that solely freezes a Pokemon, therefore this Clause cannot be enforced except for in controlled environments such as Battle Revolution and Shoddy. OHKO Clause Moves that cause a one-hit KO such as Sheer Cold and Fissure are not allowed. Similar to the Evasion Clause, luck should not win a battle but rather strategy. Sleep Clause The players may not put more than one Pokemon on the opponent's side to Sleep. The move Rest is not affected by this Clause. If it were not for this clause, Pokemon like Breloom, Butterfree and Darkrai would run rampant putting everything they see to sleep, preventing the player from essentially doing anything. Species Clause No two Pokemon of the same species may be used on the same team. For example, two Gardevoirs would violate this clause but a Gardevoir and a Gallade does not. This is because teams are suited for countering specific Pokemon only once. A team of Zapdoses would essentially require everyone to have a Blissey. It would destroy the balance of the metagame, and just imagine a team of 6 Arceus. Self KO Clause If both players have only one Pokemon remaining in battle moves that KO the user, such as Explosion or Destiny Bond, are not allowed. If a player uses a move that causes recoil damage such as Flare Blitz ends the game in both Pokemon fainting, the player that attacked LAST is announced the winner. This is largely because the player knows full well before hand that a move like Flare Blitz will have the chance of fainting their Pokemon. This clause is also available in PBR. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition to the Standard rules, there are also some clauses people may initiate when starting a battle. They include the following: Item Clause A Clause heavily enforced by all official Nintendo tournaments. Players are not allowed to have two or more of the same item on any of their Pokemon. Few players will initiate this rule, largely due to leftovers being very popular. Hax Clause This Clause bans the use of the items listed below: - Brightpowder - Quick Claw - Focus Band - King's Rock The reasoning behind Hax Clause is similar to the Evasion Clause. Either way, most of the time the player using Hax items would get a far larger advantage if they were to use an item like Life Orb or Leftovers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tiers There are currently six tiers in addition to the aforementioned Ubers Tier. They are Overused (OU),Underused (UU), Borderline (BL), Neverused (NU) and Not Fully Evolved (NFE). A Pokemon's ranking is determined by their overall usage. Obviously, the strongest Pokemon are used the most. Pokemon like Yanmega are strong but they are just not used that often, typically as a result of how other Pokemon are used. Even though there are six tiers, there are only three styles of gameplay. "Ubers" enable the usage of every Pokemon available. Obviously, the best Pokemon to use are in the Uber Tier which was previously mentioned. "Standard" is the style of gameplay most people play with. All Pokemon are permitted to be used in this style of gameplay except for Ubers. This is the default mode every player uses unless the player specifically states that they want to play "Ubers" or "UU" "UU", or "UU/NU" gameplay is a mode where Uber, OU and BL Pokemon are all banned. These are the tiers as of April 15 2009. Overused: Borderline: Underused: Neverused: Not Fully Evolved: Well, thats it. These are the rules we all play by. Check Smogon.com for more information. As time progresses, standards change.

So... I don't see what you're bawing about. Are you basically saying that you want all those Pokemon banned? You need to be able to counter those Pokemon. Why? Because they're used the most. And for good reason too, they're destructive. Not destructive to be considered Ubers, but powerful. Am I supposed to sit back and not rate a team based on its lack of ability to stop a pokemon like Zapdos? Why the hell would I ever do that? I honestly don't understand what you're talking about. You need to be able to defeat those Pokemon because people use them a lot due to their strength. Its simple logic!

And this is why this forum and everyone on it is ignorant. It has nothing to do with popularity. It has to deal with common sense. I was hoping this forum would be a little more laid back than Smogon.com, but now I realize its so laid back its idiotic. In fact, I don't even know what everyone is arguing about. Its like everyone here wants to bash Smogon while at the same time they leech off of them when it comes to "popular" things like movesets and which Pokemon are good. Point out everything on Smogon that upsets you. There are logical reasonings for each question. And yes, I do feel like my time here is numbered.

Smogon has everything to do with the Garchomp ban. Its there that the Yachechomp set was created. Its on Smogon's server that the Yachechomp set was used, and it was Smogon's server that led to Garchomp's ban. Its not a "popular" idea. It was declared through months of testing by SMOGON that Garchomp should be banned. And I still do not understand why you don't see the importance they have in the Pokemon Community. Unless you want to create your own server and supervise thousands upon thousands of battles, carefully watching the statistics of each individual Pokemon you have no right to say that your ideas are better than a group that does. Its Smogon's decision because they take the effort to MAKE it their decision. They don't just declare rules. They test. And they test. And they test, they test to ensure balance while maintaining competitivity. Also, the list we have here is the same damn thing as Smogon's April 5th list. It just hasn't been changed yet for whatever reason. I would be glad to update it, but someone's probably going to get angry and delete my thread saying that we already have one. And the Uber list concept is not really the same. Nintendo basically declares any legendary with have 600 BST or above to be banned. Thats not thought, thats just laziness. Once again, through extensive testings SMOGON has proven that neither Jirachi nor Celebi are ground-breaking enough to constitute a ban. Mew is, due to her knowledge of every move, as is Manaphy due to his sheer power when combined with Tail Glow and Rest. And before you say anything, it can't be stopped. You cannot properly counter a Tail Glow Manaphy with any OU Pokemon. Protip, if Ubers have a tough time fighting a certain Pokemon, its too strong for OU. Hell, look at Garchomp. That 102 speed is godly in Ubers.

PSP play movies iPod play songs Why do I need something that does the same, but at a fraction of the quality

no, Nintendo doesn't do that. And the standard rules are standard. They're the balanced rules created by people who have competitive battling on the palm on their hand. Sometimes I feel like everyone but Project Pokemon follows it. Nintendo allows Garchomp. Smogon doesn't, and if you don't agree with Smogon I'm prepared to teach you.

I wouldn't mind doing it. We'd have to abide by Smogon (standard) rules though. That specifically means No Ubers.

try backspacing a lot. Like 20 times in the OT box.

for your answer, go here http://projectpokemon.org/editingresearch/pokesavmysterygift.php welcome.

Haunter sucks (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

also, Minnesota Vikings.

Doc, all you really need to ponder is if a team can counter Latias, Heatran, Scizor, Zapdos and T-tar successfully. You're halfway done at that point.

Who wins? (Them and their Pokemon are fighting)