Space World '97 Demo of Pokemon Gold & Silver Released

[PedroKeitawa]

Don't gte me wrong i like the Totodile line, is cool. But in my eyes a starter based on the plesiosaurus (or at least an out dated reconstruction of a plesiosaurus) is more cool then a crocodile/aligator.

Also the final evolution also have this element of hid design that remind me a bit of Dragonair. I hope they re use the idea in the future, not necessarly for a starter.

[Guest]

I also like these starters and really wished they would reuse some of these concepts. It would be so cool...
Some of the designs are really creative in my opinion...
My personal favorite is アニモン:

A メタモン/Ditto evolution? Potentially would have become a Steel Type? Not to mention the look... lol... I mean seriously... how cool is that?
Would love to breed my Pokemon with this monster.  

Edited June 3, 2018 by ajxpk

[YoshiMoshi]

Do there are two versions of these ROMs and we have a later version of both it seems?

[theSLAYER]

59 minutes ago, YoshiMoshi said:

Do there are two versions of these ROMs and we have a later version of both it seems?

looky here:

Quote

Do note that the maps I could not replicate, appear to be from an even older showcase of the game.
The notable difference, is best exemplified by Tin Tower comparisons.
The older copy has glass windows on the doors, and the newer one (and the one leaked) users striped textured doors.

Yup, that's the conclusion I came to, too.

[YoshiMoshi]

Or is what we have a fake?

[theSLAYER]

46 minutes ago, YoshiMoshi said:

Or is what we have a fake?

The one we have, matches a lot of information. and I mean a lot.

For me to even begin to mention what this demo covers, read the entirety of this:
https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Pokémon_Gold_and_Silver

Okay, now where do I begin.
1. Starting from 1997, Nov to Dec subsection, I've been able to match every single image to an in-game location. (which is the period the leaked demo originated from, I think?)

2. As noted in the article, people were not supposed to be able to take photographs in the event, so photos are rare, and only a few official Japanese pages supposedly have them.
Yet ultimately, some of said Japanese pages ended up not having pictures online. This is the source of the likes of Qwilfish/Honoguma/Kurusu reimagined artwork we see commonly today.
Most of the sprites match these images. (tho pixelart could easily fake these common ones. but why miss out Qwilfish? They got the name right..)

3. For every blurry sprite image (such as Metapod), or a sprite that was never released but somehow used (like obscure Mew sprite from the distribution or the Pikachu from the GB Camera), appears to match, besides for Ampharos (Magazine article dating back May '97, so could have changed from previous development stage).

4. Item menu matches the one seen in the screenshot

5. Almost every demo name in the article matches the one in the leaked demo. One's that didn't match:
    Proto-Elekid (Elebebe in demo vs Eleking reported from visitor's account)
    Proto-Ditto Evo? (Animon in Demo vs Netamon) [However, in the same time period, this popped up in a promotional video]
    Proto-Sentret? (Not in demo. Name was allegedly Buku)

6. The mini-game matches descriptions from visitor's accounts

7. The unique SGB borders match the very clearly seen Gold version one (Gengar smiling), and the rare super blurry image of the Silver one (Pokemon Mosaic).

8. Extra information that isn't necessary compelling, but is interesting to note:
(i) Pokemon storage system different from RBY and GSC (looks in between). Also, it works (partially) [accessed using debug menu]
(ii) Lack of Lugia matches information found in a Japanese interview, that mentioned that Lugia was created specifically for the Movie 2000, hence explains why it wasn't in the demo this early in the development period.
(iii) The map in the leaked demo looks suspiciously like the entirety of Japan. Kanto seems to be fused together into one map, made up using the remnants of Pallet Town, Saffron and Lavender (from what I can tell). This may match the oddity mentioned in an interview under May '97,
point out that instead of referring to Kanto as Kanto Region (in kanakana), they referred to it as Kanto Province (in Kanji).
That change in terminology makes sense, if the entirety of Japan was gonna become a region, with Kanto shrinked into a province/town.
   

Edit:
The Japanese site that detailed the Pokemon findings way back then, got wind of the leaked rom, and has interesting comments.
Try reading them with google translate! (They found the rom likely to be real, FYI):
http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/b10.html

[YoshiMoshi]

15 hours ago, theSLAYER said:

Press select at title screen to enter debug menu,
Choose second top option to play the game with debug options.
now, holding B to run allows walk through walls.

Also, here's an image document I made to compare old school footage to the data in the game.
There's a few map images I haven't been able to replicate or fully replicate, so take a screenshot if you managed to find the spot!

Here it is. The image is big, so open in new tab to view it:

Do note that the maps I could not replicate, appear to be from an even older showcase of the game.
The notable difference, is best exemplified by Tin Tower comparisons.
The older copy has glass windows on the doors, and the newer one (and the one leaked) users striped textured doors.

edit:
I think a bunch of information matches this:
http://www.glitterberri.com/pokemon-gold-silver/spaceworld-97-demo/

edit2:
I found another image, and managed to match that too!

Shouldn't they match exactly though like I can see the last one u added there's an extra person sprite.

Shouldn't all the ones taken at the vent match exactly?

Which photos are from the actual event? We should see exact match up.

Agree matching locations but it doesn't look like any of the photos are exact match, some are close though, but not exact?

Edited June 1, 2018 by YoshiMoshi

[theSLAYER]

11 minutes ago, YoshiMoshi said:

Shouldn't they match exactly though like I can see the last one u added there's an extra person sprite.

The image on the left, the SGB border is different from the leaked one (and different from the ones taken at the demo), which is a huge hint.
Likely means that screenshot was taken from a different development stage, opposed to the leaked one.

I think most of the maps stayed intact, with minimal changes, and only fully got scrapped when they decided to rework the game for Gameboy Color.
It's probably only then, that the Johto that we all know (and hopefully love) came into existence.

11 minutes ago, YoshiMoshi said:

Shouldn't all the ones taken at the [e]vent match exactly?

The images typically comes from magazines, a few from promotional videos, and a few sneak shots at the demo.
As a result, the screencaps can easily be from across an array of different development stages.

If you look back to the release of Black and White, even Castelia City itself, while remaining as a city, had it visuals and layout changed up multiple times across coverage.
(I think it's documented on bulbapedia)

11 minutes ago, YoshiMoshi said:

Which photos are from the actual event? We should see exact match up.

The TCRF article I linked you has them in order.
1. you can try to use the Month/Year subsections as a gauge
2. use the SGB border as a hint on which one you should be focused on.

edit:
The translated version of this page has the sources listed right next to the images. (and funny comments, I may add):
http://hakuda2.web.fc2.com/ir/poke4/b2.html

edit2: here's a map, taken from here:
https://nintendoeverything.com/1997-pokemon-gold-space-world-demo-leaks-online-unused-pokemon-original-map-plans-more/

[FalseSwipe]

This may be off-topic but it's worth mentioning...

I have toyed around with the save files and managed to open the default save file (from Silver Debug - Header Fixed) using Pikasav. It seems that Pikasav recognizes the save as a Crystal file. (Anyone want to venture towards explaining that?) What's interesting is that it loads and shows some data, but that data isn't present when entering each associated menu. (I later tried to load a save from the same version and title saved after running the game on debug and I was greeted with an error.)

I've also tried to convert the .sgb file (by renaming the file extension to .gb) to .cia using the GB VC Converter with no such luck yet. 

Anyone else playing around with the saves at all? 

PS - I'm currently playing these on my O3DS with GameYob.

-fs

[theSLAYER]

11 minutes ago, FalseSwipe said:

It seems that Pikasav recognizes the save as a Crystal file. (Anyone want to venture towards explaining that?) What's interesting is that it loads and shows some data, but that data isn't present when entering each associated menu. (I later tried to load a save from the same version and title saved after running the game on debug and I was greeted with an error.)

I'm assuming it doesn't even show the correct party (assuming you tried to save the game, using the debug menu.)

For one thing, PKHeX doesn't load the save for me, so I'll say it depends on how the save file is programmed.
Maybe Pikasav defaults to Crystal, when no tags associated to Gold or Silver in the save is found?

Probably should open the save via hex editors, and see if there's any useful information in it. (for all you know, it's all 0s lol)
edit: I can't open the save I have with Pikasav. send your save over.

11 minutes ago, FalseSwipe said:

I've also tried to convert the .sgb file (by renaming the file extension to .gb) to .cia using the GB VC Converter with no such luck yet. 

Traiver managed to get it onto the 3DS. You can check his twitter posts to see how he did it.

[FalseSwipe]

Bad news... I deleted that save as I figured it wasn't viable and I'm not able to reproduce it. I've tried a few things and now the save won't open.

It was actually the default save file but I had ventured out a bit and ran into a Pidgey.

Cool! Let me check out how Traiver managed to do it!

-fs

Edited June 1, 2018 by FalseSwipe

[FalseSwipe]

Update:

I managed to reproduce. 

-fs

--

Second Update: 

I attempted to save as in Pikasav and open in PKHeX to no dice. Whomp whomp.

 

sav.dat

Edited June 1, 2018 by FalseSwipe

[Wanderer1391]

2 hours ago, theSLAYER said:

I'm assuming it doesn't even show the correct party (assuming you tried to save the game, using the debug menu.)

For one thing, PKHeX doesn't load the save for me, so I'll say it depends on how the save file is programmed.
Maybe Pikasav defaults to Crystal, when no tags associated to Gold or Silver in the save is found?

Probably should open the save via hex editors, and see if there's any useful information in it. (for all you know, it's all 0s lol)
edit: I can't open the save I have with Pikasav. send your save over.

Traiver managed to get it onto the 3DS. You can check his twitter posts to see how he did it.

I asked Kaphotics if PKHeX would need any specific updates for loading beta Gold/Silver saves and he said this:

"PKHeX won't support the beta versions due to the amount of differences from the retail games."

[wrathsoffire76]

I'm browsing through TCRF's page for this and it's really interesting to get an insight into how they develop and test these games.

[theSLAYER]

To those still concerned whether it's real, read this:

http://iimarckus.org/spaceworld/

[Guest]

From what I analyzed in the beta(s) I can also confirm that they're are 100% real, there are just too many details you can see when you look at it from a programming standpoint. It's not like this is a hack of another Pokemon rom or something like that. There's absolutely no question about it in my mind and I would be damn surprised.


Btw. I didn't saw this footage posted here yet which I found a while ago:

 

[theSLAYER]

@ajxpk thanks! Good to know where some of the screenshots came from!

(Pokemon GS demo screenshots start at 15:30.)

12 hours ago, FalseSwipe said:

Update: I managed to reproduce. -fs

Your save data appears different from mine, but it appears completely blank, besides some header information.
Also, I find it interesting that it says sav.dat.  Did you replace Crystal VC or something? Also, did you attempt to "save" using debug menu?

Additionally, I've hidden your post regarding the VC creation, because it was giving the impression that you wanted to give away the rom.

Anyhow, my "save". (it says modded, cause its the ver with the fixed header) :Gold Demo modded.sav

This segmented below was added via an edit to my post:
here are some of my cheat codes:

First two cheats, changes lead in party to shiny.
(Changes IVs/DVs to FA and AA) [Note, they won't sparkle. Only Pikachu and Sunflora was set to have the sparkle animation]

Next two cheats, changes the species of the lead in party to 0x19 (hexadecimal), 25 in Decimal.
So basically its 01xxABD6 and 01xxB2D6. (Both must be changed)

The highlighted code changes lead of party to Lv.100, tho it is kind of worthless, since the HP doesn't change..
I can probably make codes to create Masterballs, if anyone wants.

edit 2:
I just saw this on TCRF's GS google sheet.

Enable this cheat before starting the game (without debug menu), and disable it after starting a new game

You'll get to playthrough the game normally, choose player name, and pick a starter!
(you'll still get stuck at the gate, tho)

[Flametix]

5 hours ago, theSLAYER said:

This segmented below was added via an edit to my post:
here are some of my cheat codes:

First two cheats, changes lead in party to shiny.
(Changes IVs/DVs to FA and AA) [Note, they won't sparkle. Only Pikachu and Sunflora was set to have the sparkle animation]

Next two cheats, changes the species of the lead in party to 0x19 (hexadecimal), 25 in Decimal.
So basically its 01xxABD6 and 01xxB2D6. (Both must be changed)

The highlighted code changes lead of party to Lv.100, tho it is kind of worthless, since the HP doesn't change..
I can probably make codes to create Masterballs, if anyone wants.

 

Mostly been looking into move mechanics but this seemed relevant here. I'll repost my (very basic) notes of first mon memory addresses from smogon here. They are very similar to vanilla but just offset.

 

 

From 4chan:
01059ED1
01209FD1
0163A0D1
01FFA1D1 is the cheat to activate bag + have 99 rare candies to make the rival fight winnable with the new game patch.

01xx9FD1 is the cheat for items where you sub xx with the item's hex code from the spreadsheet.

This means D19F is the first item index number and D1A0 is the amount.


D6B4 seems to be the address of the first party mon's move out of battle. D6C9 seems to be the address for first party mon's move PP outside of battle and CA0A in battle/as the active mon.

for First Party mon
(for multiple bytes you just put them next to each other)
D6AB = first party mon Species byte 1 (What it shows up as)
D6B2 = first party mon Species byte 2 (Palette)
D6B3 = first party mon hold item - I think we've found where the mon data starts at
D6B4 = move #1
D6B5 = move 2
D6B6 = move 3
D6B7 = move 4
D6B8 = ID number byte 1
D6B9 = id number byte 2
D6BA = EXP byte 1
D6BB = EXP byte 2
D6BC = EXP byte 3
D6BD = HP stat exp byte 1
D6BE = HP stat exp byte 2
D6BF = atk stat exp byte 1
D6C0 = atk stat exp byte 2
D6C1 = def stat exp byte 1
D6C2 = def stat exp byte 2
D6C3 = spe stat exp byte 1
D6C4 = spe stat exp byte 2
D6C5 = special stat exp byte 1
D6C6 = special stat exp byte 2
D6C7 = (Attack IV, Defence IV)
D6C8 = (Speed IV, Special IV)
D6C9 = move 1 PP
D6CA = move 2 PP
D6CB = move 3 PP
D6CC = move 4 PP

D6CD = Happiness location in final. Seems to always be 46 here, maybe nothing affects it yet.

D6CE = Pokerus in final. Not sure what this does.

D6CF = Caught data byte 1 in final. Seems to always be 00.
D6D0 = Caught data byte 2 in final. Seems to always be 00.

D6D1 = Level
D6D2 = Status byte 1 in final. Unlike all the other ones you change this byte for the status mainly. I remember this being a bitmap in gen 1.
(01-07 = sleep (decrements each turn - 00 = wakeup), 08 = poison, 09 = bad poison?, 10 = burn, 11 = more sleep?, 20 = frozen?, 40 = paralysis)
D6D3 = Status byte 2 in final.


D6D4-D6D5 = HP stat
D6D6 - D6D7 = max hp
D6D8 - D6D9 = atk stat
D6DA - D6DB = def stat
D6DC - D6DD = speed stat
D6DE-D6DF = mon 1 Special attack
D6E0-D6E1 = mon 1 Special defence


D6A3 might be the current tileset. Could use this to find encounters in other locations.


CC32 cycles rapidly.

A lot of these addresses are actually the same as in vanilla but offset. https://datacrystal.romhacking.net/wiki/Pokémon_Gold_and_Silver:RAM_map

 

Interesting that the blastoise in that video a few posts above has the fade in effect when sent out.

 

ALSO in your response to the SGB borders being different... you can get those vanilla SGB borders to load if you have a save file present. Not sure why, but it's something.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Flametix

[theSLAYER]

43 minutes ago, Flametix said:

you can get those vanilla SGB borders to load if you have a save file present. Not sure why, but it's something.

I confirm that too; I've experienced that myself.

[Aurum]

In addition, my wild Pokémon modifier codes may come in handy as well.

[NovaMac]

More sprites found on the space demo 

Source: