research Gen 3 Event Generation Algorithm Research (10ANNIV, etc)

[Invader TAK]

On 12/14/2016 at 2:12 PM, ajxpk said:

Also if there's a chance we might that someday we might get a Distribution ROM like from the 10th Anniversary and we are able to disassemble it, might be able to solve this and many other questions to reconstruct 3rd Gen Event Pokémon.

That would be the holy grail. That and a Wonder Card distro ROM.

 

EDIT: Topic was started when theSLAYER moved posts discussing 10 ANIV carts after a couple members mentioned they had some and would be willing to share the generation algorithm (the thing a lot of people here actually want, myself included) but not the actual ROMs.

EDIT 2: Considering the scope of this topic has expanded beyond 10ANNIV/10 ANIV research, I decided to rename it.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Invader TAK

[Metropolis]

I own a 10ANNIV distro ROM, which I would prefer to keep out of the public domain for reasons of devaluing it.

If anyone can point me in the direction of a decompiler, I would be happy to share the sections of the source code that generate the Pokemon distributed, including its trash bytes. Alternatively, removing the user interface code from the ROM then sharing that modified ROM would be acceptable.

I have the development knowledge to make sense of decompiler tools and am interested in helping to prevent and identify fake distributions.

Determining the generation algorithm and making it public is in the interests of everyone here - the physical device retains value for the novelty of connecting to physical cartridges without external tools, whilst everyone has access to the 10ANNIV pokemon (and others sharing the algorithm) through synthetic means.

Please could anyone share the details of what they would do if they had access to the cart and I'll follow those steps, release the findings, which will be verifiable by the matching up with known legit 10ANNIV Pokemon. Please respect my decision not to leak the ROM, it's because it is a highly collectable item, I'm not enjoying having to be restrictive about it.

[Invader TAK]

9 minutes ago, Metropolis said:

I own a 10ANNIV distro ROM, which I would prefer to keep out of the public domain for reasons of devaluing it.

If anyone can point me in the direction of a decompiler, I would be happy to share the sections of the source code that generate the Pokemon distributed, including its trash bytes. Alternatively, removing the user interface code from the ROM then sharing that modified ROM would be acceptable.

I have the development knowledge to make sense of decompiler tools and am interested in helping to prevent and identify fake distributions.

Determining the generation algorithm and making it public is in the interests of everyone here - the physical device retains value for the novelty of connecting to physical cartridges without external tools, whilst everyone has access to the 10ANNIV pokemon (and others sharing the algorithm) through synthetic means.

Please could anyone share the details of what they would do if they had access to the cart and I'll follow those steps, release the findings, which will be verifiable by the matching up with known legit 10ANNIV Pokemon. Please respect my decision not to leak the ROM, it's because it is a highly collectable item, I'm not enjoying having to be restrictive about it.

That would leave the possibility of someone being able to use that modified ROM or the generation algorithm to make custom distro ROMs that function exactly the same as the real ROM, which is the part everyone here cares about. Brilliant idea!

[Metropolis]

Just now, Invader TAK said:

That would leave the possibility of someone being able to use that modified ROM or the generation algorithm to make custom distro ROMs that function exactly the same as the real ROM, which is the part everyone here cares about. Brilliant idea!

No more or less than distributing the original distro ROM? Since the details concerning the algorithm will be documented and confirmed, along with bulbapedia etc updated then custom distro ROMs can be easily weeded out by comparison. If you would rather I refrain from releasing details that is OK, whatever is in the best interests of the community without heavily devaluing a collectable.

[Invader TAK]

51 minutes ago, Metropolis said:

No more or less than distributing the original distro ROM? Since the details concerning the algorithm will be documented and confirmed, along with bulbapedia etc updated then custom distro ROMs can be easily weeded out by comparison. If you would rather I refrain from releasing details that is OK, whatever is in the best interests of the community without heavily devaluing a collectable.

I want what preserves these events in the best way for both sides. I mean, I get the whole "rare collectible" aspect behind the actual distro cart, but I don't feel that alone should keep the people wanting uncloned legal versions of these Event Pokemon from getting them. Now don't get me wrong, having access to the actual distro ROM would be amazing, but I'd be perfectly fine with a custom distro program that generates these events in the exact same way the official distro cart does (same generation algorithm and same method of sending data to the games, which I believe was the Multiboot method). Naturally other methods would be cool too (DS and/or GameCube/Wii homebrew, like what suloku developed for the Gen 3 ticket events).

Of course, the distro ROM I'd really love access to is a Gen 3 Wonder Card one. It wouldn't matter if it was the official or a reverse engineered one, having a way to distribute Gen 3 Wonder Cards the exact way done in the original events (instead of the "share Wonder Cards using the With Friends option" method we have to make do with) is something I've wanted to be able to do ever since the DS Deoxys distro ROM got dumped and modified back in 2008.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Invader TAK

[Guest]

A homebrew repro that distributes events in the exact same way as the real distro cartridge does sounds like a good compromise, if it can be done.

On the plus side, it would be legal to distribute freely.

[theSLAYER]

3 hours ago, Metropolis said:

I own a 10ANNIV distro ROM, which I would prefer to keep out of the public domain for reasons of devaluing it.

If anyone can point me in the direction of a decompiler, I would be happy to share the sections of the source code that generate the Pokemon distributed, including its trash bytes. Alternatively, removing the user interface code from the ROM then sharing that modified ROM would be acceptable.

I have the development knowledge to make sense of decompiler tools and am interested in helping to prevent and identify fake distributions.

Determining the generation algorithm and making it public is in the interests of everyone here - the physical device retains value for the novelty of connecting to physical cartridges without external tools, whilst everyone has access to the 10ANNIV pokemon (and others sharing the algorithm) through synthetic means.

Please could anyone share the details of what they would do if they had access to the cart and I'll follow those steps, release the findings, which will be verifiable by the matching up with known legit 10ANNIV Pokemon. Please respect my decision not to leak the ROM, it's because it is a highly collectable item, I'm not enjoying having to be restrictive about it.

For public,
dump and extract the rom, modify various areas that won't impact the distribution system
such as maps (remove or add), other text (that's primarily unused), hex edit certain areas to make certain that it's your copy,
change the header or ID (if applicable).

[Invader TAK]

1 hour ago, Ammako said:

A homebrew repro that distributes events in the exact same way as the real distro cartridge does sounds like a good compromise, if it can be done.

On the plus side, it would be legal to distribute freely.

If it can't be done, then there's always adapting the generation algorithm to a homebrew DS or Wii/GameCube tool. I'd be fine with either, honestly. Though if all three can be done, even better!

[Guest]

@Metropolis I would be happy already even if you just can get us the full Algorithm tbh.
I do get your point that you paid money for this and this is an item you collected. 
And personally I have no interest in the original ROM being leaked...
The only thing I do care about is preserving as much Event Pokémon as possible.
And for this the Algorithm is the key.

Of course it would be kinda interesting to see hacked versions of the ROM and making it distribute other Event Pokémon.
Also would be interesting to see how the result looks when you... let's say "extend" the Algorithm so that it generates 5 Pokémon.
It would be interesting to see if the result matches with the Mystry Mews.

Netherless, I'm grateful if you're willing to help us. 
An offer like this shouldn't be taken for granted, just to make it clear at this point. 

[HaxAras]

6 hours ago, Metropolis said:

I own a 10ANNIV distro ROM, which I would prefer to keep out of the public domain for reasons of devaluing it.

Please respect my decision not to leak the ROM, it's because it is a highly collectable item,

Thank you for what you've offered to do. Just letting you know now though. I'm in the process of getting one of these myself and the very moment it's in my hands, I will be dumping it and making the entire thing public.

[pMD]

14 minutes ago, HaxAras said:

Thank you for what you've offered to do. Just letting you know now though. I'm in the process of getting one of these myself and the very moment it's in my hands, I will be dumping it and making the entire thing public.

Apart from the fact that doing so would be devastating to people like Metropolis who paid serious money for the distribution system, all 10ANNIV distribution carts (carts, not devices) that have appeared on ebay over the years are custom flashed ROMs into Nintendo dev carts.

What I'm saying here is that if you have just the cartridge from the event, the chances are it contains a modified ROM that distributes legit 10ANNIV events and not the ROM untouched. There are some collectors who buy cheap Nintendo dev/prototype cartridges, like a dev cart for an unfinished Catwoman demo for example, for ~$20 and they flash rarer ROMs into these carts and sell them online for 10x prices. This piece of information comes from collectors of the AssemblerGames forums.

Last but not least, making a ROM like that public, would have the same results on the ebay world as the Mystry Mew saves did. Casual eBayers who have no idea what Project Pokemon is as a site, would have no idea if they bought public or not distro devices.

 

  

[HaxAras]

13 minutes ago, pMD said:

Apart from the fact that doing so would be devastating to people like Metropolis who paid serious money for the distribution system, all 10ANNIV distribution carts (carts, not devices) that have appeared on ebay over the years are custom flashed ROMs into Nintendo dev carts.

What I'm saying here is that if you have just the cartridge from the event, the chances are it contains a modified ROM that distributes legit 10ANNIV events and not the ROM untouched. There are some collectors who buy cheap Nintendo dev/prototype cartridges, like a dev cart for an unfinished Catwoman demo for example, for ~$20 and they flash rarer ROMs into these carts and sell them online for 10x prices. This piece of information comes from collectors of the AssemblerGames forums.

Last but not least, making a ROM like that public, would have the same results on the ebay world as the Mystry Mew saves did. Casual eBayers who have no idea what Project Pokemon is as a site, would have no idea if they bought public or not distro devices.

 

  

I'll be paying serious money for any and all carts that I buy in the future as well. I don't care about the perceived value of something in somebody elses collection or the value to some seller. Information should be free and public. Any and all distribution devices I ever buy, I will be making public. The only reason I haven't dumped my DS distribution carts is because I currently do not have the means to do so. I have massive respect for Metropolis both for their Gen 1-3 conversion tool as well as their offer to dump the modified ROM.

If they spent a ton of money on it and care about the value, that's their business. I'll be spending whatever it takes to get one of these ROMs and dumping it no matter what. That's been my plan since I first learned about them in 2012. 

The only thing I care about is preservation. 

If it's the real thing or a 20$ cart. I guess we will have to find out. 

As for making it public. I can't control what scumbags do on Ebay or uneducated people buy on that website. They should do research before buying something like that. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by HaxAras

[Guest]

Why should we let scammers dictate what the legitimate users can or can't have?

That and you pretty much just admitted it yourself that "all distribution carts on ebay" are already fakes, so how much more harm can it do?

If every cart on ebay was genuine then perhaps having the rom publicly available anywhere online could open up the doors for people to do that. But if they're "already all fakes" then it doesn't matter because they're already doing it anyway. Besides, they don't even need it to be public, because they can just get a hold of a genuine one, dump the rom, keep it for themselves, and just make a bunch of fakes for ebay anyway. I mean, did you think they'd really just sell theirs? It's easy enough to dump GBA roms and save files that they would be stupid not to dump those before selling so that they could re-use it themselves afterwards.

We went over this already with the Mew saves, making it publicly available only hurts the scammers. As for the people who paid serious money for what they hope is a genuine cartridge, I don't think it should matter if a rom is available online, because hey who cares, they have the actual physical thing. Unless every download of the rom creates a 100% genuine distribution cartridge out of thin air, they're not really losing anything. This was a little bit different with the Mew cartridges, because the save files can definitely be used to produce indistinguishable and for all purposes genuine Mew distro cartridges, but for 10 Anniv distro carts that isn't really the case.

[pMD]

It might be an upopular opinion, I don't know, but I don't think that the best way to preserve an event is to make its distribution ROM available online for free. I mean, we would all love to get such a rare item for free, that's not a question. Making a tool for custom ROM distributions would be a better idea than making the rom public in my opinion, cause ebay will be full of fake distribution carts again.

 

[Guest]

Yeah but why should we let scammers dictate what the legitimate users can or can't have? It's not really anyone else but the scammers' faults if they decided to try and scam through that. People will always seek to abuse everything they can, it doesn't mean we have to restrict everything at the detriment of legitimate users. But like you said, every distribution cartridge on ebay is already fake, so it doesn't matter.

A homebrew app that distributes the events in pretty much the same way isn't really preservation, because even though it may emulate the original distribution, it's not the original distribution. I can edit one of the DS distribution roms to make them give out the Crown Beasts (or any other events that were given out through slot-2 distribution) and everything is generated the right way, there is no difference in-game, but that doesn't really count as having preserved the original distribution method.

[HaxAras]

Imagine if the Mona Lisa was privately owned and locked away in some collectors safe. 
"It's too valuable to be out in the public for everybody to see."

I don't see how releasing these to the public isn't the best way to preserve them. We wouldn't have Suloku's tool or any of the wonder cards on this site preserved if people kept them to themselves because they're rare. That's just greed. 

Ebay is already full of fake carts. Go do a search for GBA carts. It's the responsibility of the buyers to look into what they're buying. Ask questions and do your own research. And to report the sellers peddling fakes and scamming people. I've reported several sellers selling fake GBA Pokemon games before. 

This one was my favorite. 

Spoiler

 

[Guest]

Eh I've got a bunch of (more or less valid) comparisons too.

Let's say we had no publicly-available way of dumping save files from cartridges, and just a few devs had their own programs and tools to do it. You could say that if you let it become publicly-available, then it would result in people abusing this to clone Pokémon for trading so that they profit from it at no loss. The legitimate users, however, would be able to dump their save files to keep them in safe places so that they can't lose them even if their game corrupts or they lose it.

Let's say you made an MMO, and a certain kind of higher-level monster was relatively profitable to kill, and gold farmers quickly fill up the area with bots so they can sell the in-game gold illegally. Then you are faced with two choices, do you nerf the loot from those mobs so that the gold farmers can't profit as much from it anymore, hurting the legitimate players in the process, who weren't doing anything wrong? Or do you just, you know, improve your bot detection systems and ban them quicker?

Drunk driving is illegal, should we ban alcohol just because some people abuse it and go drunk driving, even though everyone else is playing by the rules? (Ok, that one isn't a fair comparison, but you get the point.)

 

As far as eBay goes, you've said yourself that all the cartridges that pop up on there are fakes already. This means the sellers already have access to the rom, so they can just make more.

You say that a rom being publicly available would automatically "make ebay full of distribution carts again." Where's your source for that? Can you prove out of all doubt that a distribution rom being made available publicly would make this many bootleggers rush to it and fill up eBay with fakes? That's an assumption (and if this really happened, good luck them trying to make any kind of meaningful profit from it, lol.)

Let's say this was true. They already have a lot of trouble selling them for $1.5k and it sounds like $1k is probably the highest they could realistically expect to get from them. Do you think sellers would be able to get as much from them anymore? If dozens of people started filling up eBay with them immediately, and continuously put more and more up every time they sold some, so that eBay was constantly filled with them, you know they wouldn't be able to profit like this anymore. They wouldn't be selling them for $1k because another seller would be willing to sell for $900. They couldn't sell for $900 because another seller would be willing to sell for $800, etc. until the price is super low.

But that won't happen, anyway. A rom going public might cause a few more scammers to pop up on ebay trying to sell fakes, but it won't be to the point of filling it up. The market on those distribution cartridges is already incredibly small, you will never have enough demand for this many cartridges. I can only see it cutting into their profits, because there definitely are people who would buy the cartridge just to have access to the rom. They wouldn't need to buy from them anymore if they could just get the rom online. As for the others, they're already making fake cartridges regardless of the rom being publicly available or not.

The best profit for them is to make one fake and list it on eBay, then when they sell it, they wait for a few months and then make another and list it up. If they just continuously made cartridges and listed them, they'd just flood the market and hurt their potential to make any real profit out of it, so they don't do that. But if several other people entered the game and started making their bootlegs, they don't care that John Smith over there already sold a cartridge two weeks ago, they'll list theirs anyway, resulting in an increase in supply, and since the market of people interested in buying those cartridges is already relatively small, this will likely just make it harder for them to sell them at higher prices.

[theSLAYER]

While this is an interesting discussion and I personally would like to see a 10anniv multiboot distro in the wild,
I can understand that users who purchased them have the liberty to decide whether or not they'll like to release it.

When it comes to scammers and cheaters when there's a means, there's a way.
If we don't release it, someone else likely will, so we may as well do it properly.

We have pkhex here, despite not wanting people to cheat online,
and one can argue that without pkhex, there may not be rampant cheating,
but someone else (prime example is Datel, and eventually others came along) will likely find a way.

Back to eBay,
scammers online will remain a constant, whether they have the distribution unit or not.
They just grab files, produce bootlegs and sell.
While it totally sucks to be scammed, consumers really should do their research first,
since scammers already exist.

This thread isn't the right place for this discussion, and while discussions of roms in the past were much more strictly enforced,
I believe that as long as the distribution of said material isn't within the walls of our forums or directly linked, it probably won't be a problem.

If anyone wants to continue this discussion regarding whether distro units or saves should be dumped to the wild,
at least do it at another thread, as this thread originally is regarding the Mews.

[TheRealSlimShady]

I do have a 10 anniv distribution cart! I got it way back in 2011-2012 on a nintendo forum like this, and I thought I was the first or one of the first to get one. It came with a red gba that I ended up selling years ago to a fellow nintendo collector. I kept the cart ( which initially couldn't be taken out due to a metal device not allowing me to. After a few minutes' job I took it out without any harm to the cart) and to my surprise ( at the time) it had no labels on it besides that japanese standard label on gba prototypes, and I have another of it of some disney game that I got in a trade a long time ago. They are identical, both 128mbit. I tried to overwrite the disney game but I had no luck with any device, including a ds flashcart and some softwares. So I don't think it's doable without proper official nintendo equipment, which I have never seen in the "nintendo" forums or ebay market  I remember wanting so bad to inject a pokemon hackrom in there so I could make a great april's fool to a fellow pokemon collector friend, pretending it was a real nintendo proto. I lost all my hopes when I found out I couldn't do it without an official nintendo unit

 

@theSLAYER Sorry, I didn't read your post. I'll leave the discussion to mew. So are the files legit or not?

[pMD]

Is there any thread or private chat dedicated to GBA distro devices? I have some info that I could share in order to prove my points.

Back to the Mew discussion though.

[theSLAYER]

Moved discussion over to here.
For context (and reason for strike-throughs),
 

Posts above were off-topic posts moved from https://projectpokemon.org/forums/forums/topic/12064-frlg-rse-toysrus-mew-distribution-gba-cart/

 

[Guest]

The funny thing is that this discussion seems about morals and money.
The only reason why people like us are able to have such rare things is because someone decided to steal it from Nintendo in the first place.
At the end it might be a rare collectible item but it's still an item that was originally stolen. So how can we talk about morals? 
When it comes to money I must say it makes this even worse, because this item was never meant to be for sale originally.
So what does this mean in other words? Yes, people not only decided to steal it but also made money with it.
Which makes it even worse to be honest...

But what I do understand is that this an rare item and I don't own this item at all.
So how am I supposed to judge about what to do with it?
This also brings me to my point why I respect Metropolis.
I was talking with him before and even I might not share his opinion I do respect him.
At the end he has bought this cartridge so he can do whatever he wants to do. 

About the fake cartridges and I wasn't talking much about it in public yet.
I was talking with people who're responsible for it and wanted to know what they have to say.
And yes, even they don't admit it, I assume these cartridges on ebay are fake. I can't really tell if there ever even was a legit one of this on ebay.
It would depend on the question how many of these cartridges were stolen. If it was just 1 then I must say the chances are pretty low.
I don't even know if Metropolis' cartridge is real or fake. I have no idea how the real cartridge looked like. 
The real ones were actually fixed in GBA SP Systems just like @TheRealShimShady said.
You can see it right here:


 

 

Netherless the theory of making the ROM public might have an negative impact on the scams happening on ebay is interesting.
But I'm not the one who makes the decision. None of us does except the people who own the ROM.
That's all I can say about it. 

I'm personally not so interested in owning the ROM other than as a researcher. I like discovering secrets and it interests me what GameFreak/Nintendo did here...
This is a multiboot ROM that communicates from one Game Boy Advance BIOS to another using the Link Cable.
It then sends a ROM from the GBA to the other one in the receiving mode and then runs the ROM on it to generate an Event Pokémon.
To me this is very interesting! This is before they used the Mystery Gift System for Event Pokémon.
Where all what's happening is part of the Game itself...

From a let's say... "Philosophical" standpoint I think this is very interesting too.
Because I believe these Pokémon were made for everyone.
Everyone was invited to come and get them for a short period of time in the past.
Everyone who participated had this ROM running in their GBA BIOS.
And if we say Mystery Events and Mystery Gifts are for everyone I think this right here should be too.

I know I only repeat myself when I say this but I would really love to make this possible and I accept the challenge.
I would really like this to be the next big project I work on.
One thing I already did to make this possible (I plan to do this Research for a while now) I was collecting 3rd Gen Event Pokémon and for this I even started a Trading career at Neoseeker. I saw no other way to get all these Pokémon and I must say it was not really fun, but at least I was able to collect many Japanese 3rd Gen Event Pokémon. Some 3rd Gen Event Pokémon are however still missing in my collection and I have no idea if I will go back to trading.

So if people willing to contribute some 3rd Gen Event Pokémon for this research I would really appreciate it.
I will even trade with you if you want to trade something for it.

Edited December 17, 2016 by ajxpk

[XJ55]

I've been told to come here by a user who contacted me on ebay and explain once again. But I feel like I already have a few months ago:

 

Message:

Response:

 

There are several other messages after that.

In short, I don't sell carts that I've modified, I bought them all just like I sell them. If anyone doubted me because of the decchi file, it is all explained in those pages, and Purin got mails proving that I was scammed  So I learned that carts can be modified, but I don't have any equipment to do this.

To be honest, after learning that, I really started thinking I was scammed even when I bought the lot of carts, since it seems that in case you have the right nintendo equipment you can do wonderds with it. I called the guy after that discussion, but nothing came out of the convo. I spent much more than I got by selling a few carts in the past few years, and to my knowledge none of the carts are fake but the azure flute one that I binned months ago.

I got a loan in order to buy all those carts when I did and I'm still paying money, that's why I sell some sometimes. Prices are not even the ones I listed, it's mostly just to show off, receive offers and talk about other distributions with other people. I don't sell every time, and usually when people contact me we just end up talking about interesting pokemon stuff, and I enjoy that.

I'm done talking about this and I don't think I'll keep reading this convo unless someone points it at me again... You can believe they are fake because they do not come with the system. I do own a few of those distribution systems ( quite a few were sold years ago on nintendoage. Shiny Zigzagoon, Aurora EUR, 10ANNIV, Aura Mew) and it doesn't take much to take the cart out of them. And the guy who sold them to me who I personally met to buy the carts didn't look like a scammer to me.

And I'm also almost done selling my spare carts, so I won't be called a scammer anymore.

Hope you all guys have great holidays.

[Invader TAK]

8 minutes ago, ajxpk said:

This is a multiboot ROM that communicates from one Game Boy Advance BIOS to another using the Link Cable.
It then sends a ROM from the GBA to the other one in the receiving mode and then runs the ROM on it to generate an Event Pokémon.
To me this is very interesting! This is before they used the Mystery Gift System for Event Pokémon.
Where all what's happening is part of the Game itself...

So all we need is a custom GBA or GameCube/Wii program that sends a multiboot ROM with the generation algorithm and everything else the games need to create the Pokemon and place it in your party. That should be doable, right?

*lightbulb* I know it wasn't a 10ANIV event, but maybe we can also figure out how the ROCKS Refresh Metang was generated as well.

[Guest]

XJ55 I wasn't pointing at you and that's why I didn't put your name on it.
The reason I think why people point their fingers at you is maybe because most of these carts are sold by you.
And if they consider buying cartridges from you for such a high amount of money, of course they worry if this is a scam.
It's just common sense. The reason why some of us have these cartridges is because people stole them.
This is no clean business after all and no one can deny this fact.


 

On 12/17/2016 at 12:10 AM, Invader TAK said:

So all we need is a custom GBA or GameCube/Wii program that sends a multiboot ROM with the generation algorithm and everything else the games need to create the Pokemon and place it in your party. That should be doable, right?

*lightbulb* I know it wasn't a 10ANIV event, but maybe we can also figure out how the ROCKS Refresh Metang was generated as well.

Yes. I mean if theres some geek out there who can do it, a multiboot ROM like this could be even made from the scratch. Not that I say it would be easy. And I personally can't do it. But this would be an option to please everyone who is afraid that something gets devalued.
The easier way of course would be just to edit the 10th Anniversary Multiboot ROM.

The ROCKS Metang as sad as it is, is one of the Event Pokémon I don't have.
I would have to collect at least one to confirm what kind of Trash Bytes it has.
I have the Japanese Festa Metang but there's a possibility that the ROCKS Metang is different.
Later I will make a list of what's still missing in my collection so that everyone has an overview.