xd Pokemon XG: NeXt Gen

[Jakeyyboy]

From what I saw during the second Mirror B. battle, when his Shadow Pokemon comes out during the rain, it'll glitch out the rain and make it "drizzle" again and won't give the Ludicolo's the speed anymore from Swift Swim.

[StarsMmd]

From what I saw during the second Mirror B. battle, when his Shadow Pokemon comes out during the rain, it'll glitch out the rain and make it "drizzle" again and won't give the Ludicolo's the speed anymore from Swift Swim.

Yeah, I think I noticed the drizzle activating as well. I reckon it's because drizzle has infinite rain turns up until I think gen VI. Without drizzle the rain would end in 5 turns but by drizzle activating it sets up endless rain. The lack of speed boost I'm not sure about. One of the ludicolo's has rain dish and no swift swim, maybe that was what you saw? Otherwise I really don't know why that would happen as I didn't mess with drizzle or swift swim.

[Jakeyyboy]

Yeah, I think I noticed the drizzle activating as well. I reckon it's because drizzle has infinite rain turns up until I think gen VI. Without drizzle the rain would end in 5 turns but by drizzle activating it sets up endless rain. The lack of speed boost I'm not sure about. One of the ludicolo's has rain dish and no swift swim, maybe that was what you saw? Otherwise I really don't know why that would happen as I didn't mess with drizzle or swift swim.

It might've been Rain Dish but I can't confirm since I killed it the very next turn, but the slower Pokemon I had did end up outspeeding at least 2/4 Ludicolo's but I'm sure it was because of Rain Dish.

[StarsMmd]

It might've been Rain Dish but I can't confirm since I killed it the very next turn, but the slower Pokemon I had did end up outspeeding at least 2/4 Ludicolo's but I'm sure it was because of Rain Dish.

Yeah I can't think of anything else. Also, the ludicolo's have hardy nature, low levels and no evs or ivs so they aren't necessarily that fast in the first place.

[Pokenar]

My friend's favorite pokemon is Latios, and I notice its on the availability list, he wanted to know about when it appears so he can prepare for it or not.

[StarsMmd]

My friend's favorite pokemon is Latios, and I notice its on the availability list, he wanted to know about when it appears so he can prepare for it or not.

right at the end pretty much

[Nuxl]

My friend's favorite pokemon is Latios, and I notice its on the availability list, he wanted to know about when it appears so he can prepare for it or not.

Ardos

[Pokenar]

Ardos

We came to the realization after they said they came late, it suddenly seemed obvious.

[PizzaHutGuy]

You should check on the move Roost, it seems that you keep being Flying Type aftere you use it. Also real minor typo, in the purify chamber it says: "PC/PartY" with a capital "Y" I know it isn't much but it's something :tongue::tongue:

[Nuxl]

So I just beat the main story. I only got to Area 6 of Mount Battle, and the end credits are playing as I type this, haha. Firstly, this is an excellent hack! Great work!

These are my general thoughts though. I'd definitely love to replay this in future updates.

My main team was Heracross, Metagross, Gengar, Sceptile, Donphan, and Feraligatr. I finished the main story at level 54-55- way underleveled, but I got lucky in some catches. I barely did any grinding at Mt. Battle- the only time I did it was in the middle of Cipher Key Lair when Pokemon started going to level 46 and my average was 40-41; and after the first sailor battle in Citadark where I was level 47-49 and the Shadows were 55. I grinded to the said levels of each, so I ended up beating Gorigan at around level 45-47.

On individual Pokemon from best to worst,

Metagross was pretty solid. I got lucky, as mine was Adamant and had excellent IVs.

Gengar was also solid. I put it over my Magneton, which was the most expendable at the time.

Heracross was unreliable because most of its moves were multihitting moves; and then it got Megahorn which missed more than I'd like to say... it was a good pokemon though.

Donphan was tanky, and had really interesting moves. You made really good choices with them.

Feraligatr was okay. I never found much opportunity to use Dragon Dance though. Maybe replace that with Superpower?

Sceptile was underwhelming for me. Mine had a pretty bad nature/IVs though.

Here's some suggestions I'd like to make:

-I'd suggest buffing Hidden Power from 60 to 70 BP. In the case of Magneton and Sceptile, I wasn't able to do much damage to stuff except in cases like Scizor. But, in most cases I would rather have been using my STAB, which buffed by the plate and STAB along with it's original BP did more than a super effective Hidden Power.

-Change Shadow Aura to something else. You have to purify them anyway. In the case of Pinsir, you can just give it Bug/Flying and Aerilate. The new Tyranitar... IDK? But I'll expand on the clones.

-I disliked the duplicates, considering you got them way earlier anyway. I would have much rather had obtained, say, Regice from Gorigan instead of Metagross. Why couldn't the new features on the duplicates just have been placed on the old Pokemon? I get that they're endgame, but you're literally handed Groudon, Kyogre, Mewtwo, the Latis, two Pixies etc etc that would be superior choices for a buffed endgame as opposed to duplicates. I think I'm not a fan because of variety, and less choices for Orre Colosseum

-Where's Mew? D:

-Balance- I'd suggest giving Gale Wings to Murkrow, and Refrigerate to Sneasel to balance them out, if the stats will be unchanged.

There were some level curve oddities- At the beginning of Cipher Key Lair, Zook's team, on average, is 37 with a level 40 Zangoose. Walking in, you encounter Shadows that are level 42... then they jump to level 48-50 just randomly. Gorigan's team is around 48 with a level 52 shadow, iirc. Isn't that a little big of a jump? IDK, you could probably nerf that a bit and nerf early Citadark, then buff it when it starts nearing the end of the Lava section.

On the other hand, Citadark Isle was played really well. It started out as a level curve jump, yes, but I loved how it flattened when you continued on through, as opposed to having more jumps unlike in .

Except for the level 65 shadows, Mewtwo, Rayquaza, and Deoxys. I ended up getting oneshot by them and they had really low catch rates which was annoying >.<

-Some of the Monotype segments were a little easy... mainly Sylvia's both battles and the whole Snagem portion. But that might be because I had pokemon to cover them.

I think that's all I needed to say for now... I'm anticipating Orre Colosseum!

Again, great work. I need to play this again soon.

Looking for a save editor tool for nature switching for Orre Colosseum.. my ingame team would surely die D:

[StarsMmd]

You should check on the move Roost, it seems that you keep being Flying Type aftere you use it. Also real minor typo, in the purify chamber it says: "PC/PartY" with a capital "Y" I know it isn't much but it's something :tongue::tongue:

Temporarily removing the flying type like roost should do is beyond me right now. It's a very complicated thing to do and requires a lot more ASM knowledge than I currently have. I can't do much about that atm.

PartY would just be something I missed when decapitalising the text. That has now been fixed thanks

[PizzaHutGuy]

I have to agree that the level curve is a bit steep, I myself had to grind a couple of times after seeing the first trainer on the "dungeons" was way higher leveled than me.

I also think I found a bug, earlier when I got the Miror Radar or whatever it's called, I got into a fight against Miror B where he had a lvl 40 Shadow Zangoose, and later at the Cipher Key Lair Zeke had another Shadow Zangoose with him, so I'm assuming I can get two Zangoose? lol.

[StarsMmd]

So I just beat the main story. I only got to Area 6 of Mount Battle, and the end credits are playing as I type this, haha. Firstly, this is an excellent hack! Great work!

These are my general thoughts though. I'd definitely love to replay this in future updates.

My main team was Heracross, Metagross, Gengar, Sceptile, Donphan, and Feraligatr. I finished the main story at level 54-55- way underleveled, but I got lucky in some catches. I barely did any grinding at Mt. Battle- the only time I did it was in the middle of Cipher Key Lair when Pokemon started going to level 46 and my average was 40-41; and after the first sailor battle in Citadark where I was level 47-49 and the Shadows were 55. I grinded to the said levels of each, so I ended up beating Gorigan at around level 45-47.

On individual Pokemon from best to worst,

Metagross was pretty solid. I got lucky, as mine was Adamant and had excellent IVs.

Gengar was also solid. I put it over my Magneton, which was the most expendable at the time.

Heracross was unreliable because most of its moves were multihitting moves; and then it got Megahorn which missed more than I'd like to say... it was a good pokemon though.

Donphan was tanky, and had really interesting moves. You made really good choices with them.

Feraligatr was okay. I never found much opportunity to use Dragon Dance though. Maybe replace that with Superpower?

Sceptile was underwhelming for me. Mine had a pretty bad nature/IVs though.

Here's some suggestions I'd like to make:

-I'd suggest buffing Hidden Power from 60 to 70 BP. In the case of Magneton and Sceptile, I wasn't able to do much damage to stuff except in cases like Scizor. But, in most cases I would rather have been using my STAB, which buffed by the plate and STAB along with it's original BP did more than a super effective Hidden Power.

-Change Shadow Aura to something else. You have to purify them anyway. In the case of Pinsir, you can just give it Bug/Flying and Aerilate. The new Tyranitar... IDK? But I'll expand on the clones.

-I disliked the duplicates, considering you got them way earlier anyway. I would have much rather had obtained, say, Regice from Gorigan instead of Metagross. Why couldn't the new features on the duplicates just have been placed on the old Pokemon? I get that they're endgame, but you're literally handed Groudon, Kyogre, Mewtwo, the Latis, two Pixies etc etc that would be superior choices for a buffed endgame as opposed to duplicates. I think I'm not a fan because of variety, and less choices for Orre Colosseum

-Where's Mew? D:

-Balance- I'd suggest giving Gale Wings to Murkrow, and Refrigerate to Sneasel to balance them out, if the stats will be unchanged.

There were some level curve oddities- At the beginning of Cipher Key Lair, Zook's team, on average, is 37 with a level 40 Zangoose. Walking in, you encounter Shadows that are level 42... then they jump to level 48-50 just randomly. Gorigan's team is around 48 with a level 52 shadow, iirc. Isn't that a little big of a jump? IDK, you could probably nerf that a bit and nerf early Citadark, then buff it when it starts nearing the end of the Lava section.

On the other hand, Citadark Isle was played really well. It started out as a level curve jump, yes, but I loved how it flattened when you continued on through, as opposed to having more jumps unlike in .

Except for the level 65 shadows, Mewtwo, Rayquaza, and Deoxys. I ended up getting oneshot by them and they had really low catch rates which was annoying >.<

-Some of the Monotype segments were a little easy... mainly Sylvia's both battles and the whole Snagem portion. But that might be because I had pokemon to cover them.

I think that's all I needed to say for now... I'm anticipating Orre Colosseum!

Again, great work. I need to play this again soon.

Looking for a save editor tool for nature switching for Orre Colosseum.. my ingame team would surely die D:

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Your team

I really like your team too. It's exactly the kind of team I was hoping XG would make possible. I actually used dragon dance quite often with my feraligatr in my most recent playthrough and it helped a lot, even in orre colosseum where I managed to set up from time to time. I did lose quite a few times when I got greedy though so it's something I had to get used to. Super power is available for free at the move tutor in agate later on in the game (I can't remember the exact point now but it's something like once you reach the shadow factory).

Natures can actually have a large effect on a pokemon in a playthrough. I actually decided against some pokemon I would have normally chosen as a result of unbearable natures. If it decreased their main stat then it just felt too weak. I don't mind any other decreases though. I like that there are a lot of good options available so it's okay to get a bad nature. It helps keep your team fresh each time you play (I've played quite a few times ).

Suggestions:

Hidden Power- I feel like hidden power was never meant to be a powerful or even useful move. It's meant to have a niche coverage role which can catch opponents off guard with 2 hit KOs. I don't know if you play competitively but you may have noticed that Hidden Power almost never OHKOs because of the low power and lack of stab. It's most useful when it's 4x super effective like hp grass on a bulky quagsire or hp fire on scizor. In a game where you have a second pokemon for coverage maybe it's just not a necessary move in general. You could always changed out that move slot for any of the tutor moves, relearner moves or TMs that are available?

Shadow Aura- Someone else mentioned this as well and I said I only really put it in for the banter. I've been working on XG for over a year and had a different view point on a lot of things at the beginning when it was more just a project for myself and my brothers. Personally, I had no interest in pokemon like pinsir so I didn't mind. However, I concluded that I would most likely just remove it now.

duplicates- This is a long one !

This is a comment I've addressed a few times already. It is something that I did spend a long time considering and it was a tough decision. I am willing to change it since it seems very unpopular so I'd like to know which pokemon you would suggest as replacements. I felt like there was nothing else I'd rather put at the end. Most powerful pokemon are already in the game. You gave the example of having regice over metagross but if it had been that way would you have ever used regice? Maybe, I don't know but regice isn't necessarily that popular in general. Also, I personally really liked having pokemon like salamence at the end. Salamence isn't really one of my favourite pokemon of all time but it's powerful. So while I wouldn't want to use it in the main story, it was really convenient to have one I could EV a bit and then use in orre colosseum. I left the bagon in the daycare and it only reached level 37 by the time I finished the game.

I can understand why people may be disappointed by repeats of course. However, I wouldn't say there is a lack of variety, there are far more viable pokemon available than you could pick in multiple playthroughs. Also, by the logic that the legendaries at the end outclass the duplicates, surely they would outclass anything else that was put there too? Any pokemon that isn't in the game yet is basically something that was outclassed by some other pokemon at some point in the game. There isn't any I can think of that actually adds variety[/T] in terms of typing and strategy as opposed to literally just being a different species of pokemon. There are a few pokemon which narrowly missed the cut, but then do you put then at the end and have an underwhelming boss or move pokemon like bagon to the end and disappoint fans of a really popular pokemon? Also, is it really worth it in the first place? It's quite the dilemma really and something to think about.

Sorry I keep rambling on the topic but it is something I have been thinking about even since I was hacking colosseum. Even before I figured out if hacking the GCN games was viable in fact, I was already planning which pokemon to put in if I could. I know it sounds as simple as just swapping one pokemon out for another, but actually each time I swapped something out I found myself moving a lot of pokemon around so things made sense. hacking is still very new so it's not something that there's any kind of consensus on yet.

I will probably make a separate post about this shortly.

Mew- Mew is broken for now sorry. I do have plans to put it back in later though.

Balance- As I mentioned previously, I'm wary of changing things up too much just because it makes the game a lot harder to pick up for someone who doesn't know all the changes. I made more familiar changes like making altaria dragon/fairy with pixilate because we're used to it's mega evolution so it's an easy connection to make. However to suddenly give sneasel refrigerate isn't immediately obvious.

Level curve-

The level curve is something that has challenged me even since my days of GBA hacking. It's really hard to get right and this is just the first draft. The problem is you have suggested a lot of level decreases however you said previously that you managed to beat a lot of the game while underlevelled and didn't need to grind much. If anything that would predicate level increases. . The game is already fairly easy (an inherent trait of pokemon games it seems), why make it easier? Also remember that main game opponents have no evs and ivs and have hardy nature on all pokemon. The AI is also rubbish so the only way to introduce some kind of challenge is to increase the levels (or give them broken pokemon/moves).

Another issue is that if I reduce a lot of levels, your pokemon get less experience and will just be even more underlevelled than before. If I increase the levels then your pokemon gain more experience and then are just overlevelled and the game becomes too easy again. It's another case that is easy to change in theory but in practice requires a lot of restructuring.

Oh also, a big, big factor in this is that the size of the shadow pokemon data had to be less than the size of the original shadow pokemon data. Without going into too much detail, having a lot of shadow pokemon with different levels makes the data less predictable and therefore needs a larger size. In order to keep the size down I made sure a lot of the shadow pokemon had the same levels as each other. As in, literally the same number (even 20 and 21 is a problem for data compression). The levels of the shadow pokemon actually dictated the level curve more than anything else so it's more about curving the levels of the shadow pokemon and then the rest of the pokemon fall in line. So, I guess the level jumps could also be considered a technical limitation. I actually know how to increase the file size now though so with a little bit of work that factor can be ignored.

Monotype segments- I think pokemon games are really easy either way tbh. Still, you find a lot of evil teams in the games have type preferences or preferences to certain pokemon types. It makes sense in terms of building their character and appeal. I think part of the challenge of being a pokemon trainer is being able to prepare for and exploit the weaknesses that certain types have.

Also, another thing to consider is that you don't want the game to be that hard all the time. Imagine if every snagem grunt had a hard team. I could give them all evs, ivs, good natures and competitive moves and that would be a nice challenge but then the battles just take forever. Also, even if I made then the right amount of difficulty, one will always just over level.

Sorry, for the long answers. There was quite a lot to say hahaha. There's a really nice save editor by @Tux -save-editor'>https://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?47056-PkmGCSaveEditor-a-Pok%E9mon-Colosseum--save-editor

[StarsMmd]

I have to agree that the level curve is a bit steep, I myself had to grind a couple of times after seeing the first trainer on the "dungeons" was way higher leveled than me.

I also think I found a bug, earlier when I got the Miror Radar or whatever it's called, I got into a fight against Miror B where he had a lvl 40 Shadow Zangoose, and later at the Cipher Key Lair Zeke had another Shadow Zangoose with him, so I'm assuming I can get two Zangoose? lol.

The level curve issue, I addressed above. There are a few intricacies involved.

Also the Zangoose thing is a problem that occurs if zook beats ardos in gateon. I only realised this was possible after release since it was a roll for zangoose to be OHKO'd. This isn't possible anymore so it won't happen in the current version. I don't know why the game is programmed so that zangoose flees if zook wins but I guess it's just something they didn't bother to program properly since it can never happen in the original.

[Pokenar]

I'm not too far yet, but I will say I like the level curve so far.

Yes, I am underleveled when I enter a new area, and this curve would probably annoy me in the mainline games, but for GoD, this simply means I get to use Mt. Battle without ending up with a level 30 Ampharos against a level 18 Delcatty like I did in the vanilla game.

[Nuxl]

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Your team

I really like your team too. It's exactly the kind of team I was hoping XG would make possible. I actually used dragon dance quite often with my feraligatr in my most recent playthrough and it helped a lot, even in orre colosseum where I managed to set up from time to time. I did lose quite a few times when I got greedy though so it's something I had to get used to. Super power is available for free at the move tutor in agate later on in the game (I can't remember the exact point now but it's something like once you reach the shadow factory).

Natures can actually have a large effect on a pokemon in a playthrough. I actually decided against some pokemon I would have normally chosen as a result of unbearable natures. If it decreased their main stat then it just felt too weak. I don't mind any other decreases though. I like that there are a lot of good options available so it's okay to get a bad nature. It helps keep your team fresh each time you play (I've played quite a few times ).

Suggestions:

Hidden Power- I feel like hidden power was never meant to be a powerful or even useful move. It's meant to have a niche coverage role which can catch opponents off guard with 2 hit KOs. I don't know if you play competitively but you may have noticed that Hidden Power almost never OHKOs because of the low power and lack of stab. It's most useful when it's 4x super effective like hp grass on a bulky quagsire or hp fire on scizor. In a game where you have a second pokemon for coverage maybe it's just not a necessary move in general. You could always changed out that move slot for any of the tutor moves, relearner moves or TMs that are available?

Shadow Aura- Someone else mentioned this as well and I said I only really put it in for the banter. I've been working on XG for over a year and had a different view point on a lot of things at the beginning when it was more just a project for myself and my brothers. Personally, I had no interest in pokemon like pinsir so I didn't mind. However, I concluded that I would most likely just remove it now.

duplicates- This is a long one !

This is a comment I've addressed a few times already. It is something that I did spend a long time considering and it was a tough decision. I am willing to change it since it seems very unpopular so I'd like to know which pokemon you would suggest as replacements. I felt like there was nothing else I'd rather put at the end. Most powerful pokemon are already in the game. You gave the example of having regice over metagross but if it had been that way would you have ever used regice? Maybe, I don't know but regice isn't necessarily that popular in general. Also, I personally really liked having pokemon like salamence at the end. Salamence isn't really one of my favourite pokemon of all time but it's powerful. So while I wouldn't want to use it in the main story, it was really convenient to have one I could EV a bit and then use in orre colosseum. I left the bagon in the daycare and it only reached level 37 by the time I finished the game.

I can understand why people may be disappointed by repeats of course. However, I wouldn't say there is a lack of variety, there are far more viable pokemon available than you could pick in multiple playthroughs. Also, by the logic that the legendaries at the end outclass the duplicates, surely they would outclass anything else that was put there too? Any pokemon that isn't in the game yet is basically something that was outclassed by some other pokemon at some point in the game. There isn't any I can think of that actually adds variety[/T] in terms of typing and strategy as opposed to literally just being a different species of pokemon. There are a few pokemon which narrowly missed the cut, but then do you put then at the end and have an underwhelming boss or move pokemon like bagon to the end and disappoint fans of a really popular pokemon? Also, is it really worth it in the first place? It's quite the dilemma really and something to think about.

Sorry I keep rambling on the topic but it is something I have been thinking about even since I was hacking colosseum. Even before I figured out if hacking the GCN games was viable in fact, I was already planning which pokemon to put in if I could. I know it sounds as simple as just swapping one pokemon out for another, but actually each time I swapped something out I found myself moving a lot of pokemon around so things made sense. hacking is still very new so it's not something that there's any kind of consensus on yet.

I will probably make a separate post about this shortly.

Mew- Mew is broken for now sorry. I do have plans to put it back in later though.

Balance- As I mentioned previously, I'm wary of changing things up too much just because it makes the game a lot harder to pick up for someone who doesn't know all the changes. I made more familiar changes like making altaria dragon/fairy with pixilate because we're used to it's mega evolution so it's an easy connection to make. However to suddenly give sneasel refrigerate isn't immediately obvious.

Level curve-

The level curve is something that has challenged me even since my days of GBA hacking. It's really hard to get right and this is just the first draft. The problem is you have suggested a lot of level decreases however you said previously that you managed to beat a lot of the game while underlevelled and didn't need to grind much. If anything that would predicate level increases. . The game is already fairly easy (an inherent trait of pokemon games it seems), why make it easier? Also remember that main game opponents have no evs and ivs and have hardy nature on all pokemon. The AI is also rubbish so the only way to introduce some kind of challenge is to increase the levels (or give them broken pokemon/moves).

Another issue is that if I reduce a lot of levels, your pokemon get less experience and will just be even more underlevelled than before. If I increase the levels then your pokemon gain more experience and then are just overlevelled and the game becomes too easy again. It's another case that is easy to change in theory but in practice requires a lot of restructuring.

Oh also, a big, big factor in this is that the size of the shadow pokemon data had to be less than the size of the original shadow pokemon data. Without going into too much detail, having a lot of shadow pokemon with different levels makes the data less predictable and therefore needs a larger size. In order to keep the size down I made sure a lot of the shadow pokemon had the same levels as each other. As in, literally the same number (even 20 and 21 is a problem for data compression). The levels of the shadow pokemon actually dictated the level curve more than anything else so it's more about curving the levels of the shadow pokemon and then the rest of the pokemon fall in line. So, I guess the level jumps could also be considered a technical limitation. I actually know how to increase the file size now though so with a little bit of work that factor can be ignored.

Monotype segments- I think pokemon games are really easy either way tbh. Still, you find a lot of evil teams in the games have type preferences or preferences to certain pokemon types. It makes sense in terms of building their character and appeal. I think part of the challenge of being a pokemon trainer is being able to prepare for and exploit the weaknesses that certain types have.

Also, another thing to consider is that you don't want the game to be that hard all the time. Imagine if every snagem grunt had a hard team. I could give them all evs, ivs, good natures and competitive moves and that would be a nice challenge but then the battles just take forever. Also, even if I made then the right amount of difficulty, one will always just over level.

Sorry, for the long answers. There was quite a lot to say hahaha. There's a really nice save editor by @Tux -save-editor'>https://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?47056-PkmGCSaveEditor-a-Pok%E9mon-Colosseum--save-editor

Team:

oops, my bad on that haha! I used DD a couple times; and I never really checked the move relearner after the first time(which is probably 30s), so maybe I skimmed it.

yeah, it was cool! although i got a lot of really bad natures on mons i wanted to use, like Torchic(Calm), Bagon(Calm), Ralts(Adamant). so i ended up dropping those unfortunately.

Hidden Power- right, I do play competitive. I play Doubles OU and regular OU. This may have been because I was always underleveled, but Hidden Power never seemed to do a lot besides again to 4x weak mons. I also wouldn't know what to keep on, say, Manectric or Magneton over Hidden Power since they both have pretty bad coverage anyway. it just kind of felt weak in general. in cases where your initial STAB coverage(think, Manectric vs Dragons) couldn't take it, Hidden Power Ice itself doesn't feel like it'd do too much better.

Shadow Aura- gotcha!

Duplicates- right, I see. obviously, these pokemon are very late into the game; so not much use would be done for them of course. there's still more section of the game- aka Mt. Battle and Orre Colosseum.

I guess it's more for a selfish and casual reason; but I would have used mons such as Regice because they would have been fun to use(for example, boltbeam in Orre Colosseum would have been generally amusing with a decent nature). I think the fact of a duplicate kind of wavers peoples' opinions based on the fact that it's not as unique for them, so it just turns people off.

The legend comment was based on the earlier duplicate question, but i think i misread it when i typed it >.<.

but right, okay! i understand where you're coming from.

Mew- bummer. is it not obeying, or?

balance- makes sense; although it was just an initial suggestion to keep stuff like Muk/Murkrow/Sneasel/Sableye from falling off lategame.

level curve- hm, i understand. Citadark was hard in general because I kept getting one-shot but i think i got lucky for most of the portion there.

and yeah, i barely beat Miror B(the 68-70 team) with the same team of 54-56, so I see where you're coming from.

monotypes- right, but to be fair as long as you have one mon that can exploit it(think Beldum for Lovrina and... Heracross for the whole Snagem portion) it becomes easy and admins don't really feel like admins. I'm not talking about buffing them in general, but adding a bit of type diversity while still having cute mons for Lovrina and grunt-y mons for Snagem.

side note, the nicknames for Lovrina were just amazing haha

no, i really appreciated what you had to say! thanks for being so concise in your response.

and i tried the save editor for Mausoleum just to test it, but unfortunately it changed my abilities to what they would've been in the original version. I'm not sure if it'd be the same for XG.

[StarsMmd]

I'm not too far yet, but I will say I like the level curve so far.

Yes, I am underleveled when I enter a new area, and this curve would probably annoy me in the mainline games, but for GoD, this simply means I get to use Mt. Battle without ending up with a level 30 Ampharos against a level 18 Delcatty like I did in the vanilla game.

Yeah I feel the same way. Vanilla is really easy to over level. Couple that with the fact that you can get evolved pokemon like espeon, shiftry, ursaring, ampharos etc. quite early on, the game becomes really easy.

Team:

oops, my bad on that haha! I used DD a couple times; and I never really checked the move relearner after the first time(which is probably 30s), so maybe I skimmed it.

yeah, it was cool! although i got a lot of really bad natures on mons i wanted to use, like Torchic(Calm), Bagon(Calm), Ralts(Adamant). so i ended up dropping those unfortunately.

Hidden Power- right, I do play competitive. I play Doubles OU and regular OU. This may have been because I was always underleveled, but Hidden Power never seemed to do a lot besides again to 4x weak mons. I also wouldn't know what to keep on, say, Manectric or Magneton over Hidden Power since they both have pretty bad coverage anyway. it just kind of felt weak in general. in cases where your initial STAB coverage(think, Manectric vs Dragons) couldn't take it, Hidden Power Ice itself doesn't feel like it'd do too much better.

Shadow Aura- gotcha!

Duplicates- right, I see. obviously, these pokemon are very late into the game; so not much use would be done for them of course. there's still more section of the game- aka Mt. Battle and Orre Colosseum.

I guess it's more for a selfish and casual reason; but I would have used mons such as Regice because they would have been fun to use(for example, boltbeam in Orre Colosseum would have been generally amusing with a decent nature). I think the fact of a duplicate kind of wavers peoples' opinions based on the fact that it's not as unique for them, so it just turns people off.

The legend comment was based on the earlier duplicate question, but i think i misread it when i typed it >.<.

but right, okay! i understand where you're coming from.

Mew- bummer. is it not obeying, or?

balance- makes sense; although it was just an initial suggestion to keep stuff like Muk/Murkrow/Sneasel/Sableye from falling off lategame.

level curve- hm, i understand. Citadark was hard in general because I kept getting one-shot but i think i got lucky for most of the portion there.

and yeah, i barely beat Miror B(the 68-70 team) with the same team of 54-56, so I see where you're coming from.

monotypes- right, but to be fair as long as you have one mon that can exploit it(think Beldum for Lovrina and... Heracross for the whole Snagem portion) it becomes easy and admins don't really feel like admins. I'm not talking about buffing them in general, but adding a bit of type diversity while still having cute mons for Lovrina and grunt-y mons for Snagem.

side note, the nicknames for Lovrina were just amazing haha

no, i really appreciated what you had to say! thanks for being so concise in your response.

and i tried the save editor for Mausoleum just to test it, but unfortunately it changed my abilities to what they would've been in the original version. I'm not sure if it'd be the same for XG.

hidden power

I think it's just an inherent problem with hidden power. It is a weak move and you would only use it on a pokemon that doesn't get stab on it. It's the same reason shadow moves aren't broken. Even though they're super effective on everything, without stab they just don't do that much damage unless they have a high base power. For a pokemon like manectric I would probably forgo hidden power for something more technical. I quite liked the combination of intimidate and baby doll eyes to half the attack of the opponent before they even get to attack. It's nice for snagging strong physical attackers and just for strong opponents in general. That could go well with thunderwave/nuzzle (because paralysis is broken), electric stab and fire coverage for example. Magneton (or similarly for manectric) could go for something like flash cannon, thunderwave, thunderbolt for consistent damage and then for the last something like discharge for spread damage/para chance, thunder on a rain team or risking the accuracy or short circuit for the extra damage output (I can't remember if it learns it by level up but it should)

duplicates

The shadow pokemon list will be discussed further in the near future. I think I might make a separate thread for it because it is quite an interesting and intricate topic which I'm sure there are many opinions on.

Mew

Thankfully nothing complicated like that. As you may know, there is a special move tutor for mew in who teaches mew some moves based on how you answer his questions. However, I don't know how the game decides those moves yet and a lot of those moves have been replaced or broken during processes like adding the fairy type or physical/special split. I now have the ability to simply remove that script from the game to prevent learning moves that could crash the game or just have weird effects in general. The question after that is where to put mew. I'm still deciding.

balance

yeah I completely agree with you on that but everyone has different preferences so it's hard to please everyone. I'll probably make another version of XG with changes like that once the hack becomes more stable. However, I wouldn't want to have to separate versions to update and maintain while things are still changing a lot.

monotypes

tbf lovrina is the only admin with a monotype team. Although the snagem grunts spam dark types almost exclusively, Gonzap actually has a pretty diverse team (typewise at least). He was actually the one that gave me the most trouble at orre colosseum. Lovrina will never be a challenge though. The first encounter I purposely made a little easier than I originally did because it's so early in the game that you don't have many team options/ TM options or even options for grinding levels. Her later appearance at citadark is so late in the game that it is the opposite. You are so well prepared that it will be easy regardless.

If difficulty is what you seek, in my experience there are 3 ways to make trainers harder.

1. Increase the levels. However, this creates the kind of paradox I mentioned earlier where facing higher levels just makes your own pokemon even more overlevelled.

2. Have multiple battles in a row without the opportunity to heal. This works well actually if you really want to make the player suffer but is rather annoying for the player. I actually edited the 2 occurences of this in (before snattle and before greevil) so your team is actually healed aautomatically before each one (wonder if anyone noticed )

3. Give them actual evs/ivs/natures/items/competitive moves. I like this option but it's hard to find a nice balance so it's not too hard. They make a huge difference.

[WaReV]

I'm at the end and notice that I could only catch one of the regi (regirock), the two others cannot be caught ?

And why have you made 2 same shadows pokemon ? Like we catch ralts at the beginning and at the end tyrion got gardevoir, or same thing with salamence, metagross, flygon and more... It's not a problem but a different one would have been cool.

[StarsMmd]

I'm at the end and notice that I could only catch one of the regi (regirock), the two others cannot be caught ?

And why have you made 2 same shadows pokemon ? Like we catch ralts at the beginning and at the end tyrion got gardevoir, or same thing with salamence, metagross, flygon and more... It's not a problem but a different one would have been cool.

I'll copy and paste what I said last time someone asked.

This is a comment I've addressed a few times already. It is something that I did spend a long time considering and it was a tough decision. I am willing to change it since it seems very unpopular so I'd like to know which pokemon you would suggest as replacements. I felt like there was nothing else I'd rather put at the end. Most powerful pokemon are already in the game. You gave the example of having regice over metagross but if it had been that way would you have ever used regice? Maybe, I don't know but regice isn't necessarily that popular in general. Also, I personally really liked having pokemon like salamence at the end. Salamence isn't really one of my favourite pokemon of all time but it's powerful. So while I wouldn't want to use it in the main story, it was really convenient to have one I could EV a bit and then use in orre colosseum. I left the bagon in the daycare and it only reached level 37 by the time I finished the game.

I can understand why people may be disappointed by repeats of course. However, I wouldn't say there is a lack of variety, there are far more viable pokemon available than you could pick in multiple playthroughs. Also, by the logic that the legendaries at the end outclass the duplicates, surely they would outclass anything else that was put there too? Any pokemon that isn't in the game yet is basically something that was outclassed by some other pokemon at some point in the game. There isn't any I can think of that actually adds variety[/T] in terms of typing and strategy as opposed to literally just being a different species of pokemon. There are a few pokemon which narrowly missed the cut, but then do you put then at the end and have an underwhelming boss or move pokemon like bagon to the end and disappoint fans of a really popular pokemon? Also, is it really worth it in the first place? It's quite the dilemma really and something to think about.

Sorry I keep rambling on the topic but it is something I have been thinking about even since I was hacking colosseum. Even before I figured out if hacking the GCN games was viable in fact, I was already planning which pokemon to put in if I could. I know it sounds as simple as just swapping one pokemon out for another, but actually each time I swapped something out I found myself moving a lot of pokemon around so things made sense. hacking is still very new so it's not something that there's any kind of consensus on yet.

I will probably make a separate post about this shortly.

[drizzletoed]

Thoughts and ideas:

As for the final boss team, since I've heard that a couple of times now I'm curious to hear what you would suggest as a final boss team. It's something I'll have to think about.

Shadow aura I'm also not sure how I feel about it . I was debating whether or not to include it for a while and just decided to do it for fun. I'll probably remove it in the end.

Yeah I thought about adding even more fairy types, in particular I considered milotic and either jirachi or celebi as well. I did get some comments from when the hack was just announced about people worried about type/stat changes. I'd love to change a lot of things but then it gets intimidating for people who don't know all the changes to pick up the game. I know I feel that way about other peoples' hacks that I don't know.

Again with the updated stats for the pokemon with evolutions in later games. It's something I was considering right through the project but for the same reason elected not to. There are a lot of johto pokemon in particular who could benefit from it but there will always be a divide in opinion on these matters so I played it safe and kept them as they were. I think I actually changed sneasel's stats to weavile's at one point since they are actually quite similar. I can't remember if I ever changed it back though. Maybe I'll make a poll.

It's good to see you enjoyed XG! Thanks for playing.

As for updating the stats, refer to the response above. Yeah most stat changes were done just to be true to gen 6 as someone else pointed out I believe. I have been working on XG for about a year now actually and at first it was really just for me and my brothers to mess around with. There may be a few less predictable changes that I made over time which I could never be bothered to undo. For example, I think glalie, tropius and pidgeot got more drastic buffs just because I felt like they needed some love. The decision to try and keep as much as possible true to canon came a lot later in development so there may be random buffs of like +10 on other pokemon I liked although I don't think there are too many.

I figured Milotic crossed your mind at some point since you gave it Moonblast.. that's what gave me the idea, anyway. :tongue: I see what you're saying about changing too many types/stats though. I often see requests for "vanilla" versions of romhacks without modifications to Pokemon, so there must be a fair number of people that prefer games closer to the originals. I'm of the opinion that these changes keep hacks interesting, but I understand the other perspective.

Here are some thoughts on the final boss since you expressed interest in suggestions:

The more I look at the list of fully evolved Pokemon available, the more I see why you chose to include some repeats. By the time you get to Tyrion, nearly every high BST Pokemon is already available. With that said, you might want to consider shifting around some of the last several bosses' Shadow Pokemon. For example, I feel like Mewtwo is more of a final boss Pokemon--though I imagine that you either a) wanted to make Mewtwo available to use against Tyrion or b) didn't want Tyrion to have two Psychic-type legendaries; both of which are fair. I think it's worth noting that avoiding duplicates doesn't have to mean directly replacing them on Tyrion's team. It might be more appropriate to shift some of the higher BST Pokemon up to Tyrion to create some space a little earlier on (this would require changing more than one trainer). With that said, I'll suggest a few Pokemon that I think would have merit either on Tyrion's team or earlier in the game.

Slaking

• Slaking has the second highest Attack stat in the game (behind Deo-A) and is tied for second highest BST in the game (with Groudon and Kyogre, second only to Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Lugia, and Ho-Oh).
  
• Though its ability is crippling (unless you're crazy enough to change it), a physical Shadow attack from Slaking has the potential to hurt harder than one from any of Tyrion's other Pokemon.
  
• I think Slaking is a cool Pokemon for Doubles once purified because it requires some team support to work effectively. Moves like Skill Swap and Follow Me become more interesting.
  
• Natural movepool options: Body Slam, Crush Claw, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Sucker Punch, Play Rough, Gunk Shot, Brick Break, Night Slash, Shadow Claw, the elemental punches, and if you want to program it, Giga Impact.
  
• Theoretically cool moves: Extreme Speed, Knock Off, Belly Drum
  
• Probable placement: Somewhere from Snattle to Tyrion
  

Regirock & Regice

• The other Regis have been brought up before--probably just because people like symmetry and right now only Registeel is available--but I do think they have value as Shadow Pokemon.
  
• One of the team archetypes you list on the main page is stall. While stall isn't super popular for in-game purposes, you give some tools to make it work--SkarmBliss, easy access to Leftovers, lots of Intimidate, weather, etc. The Regis are made to stall.
  
• Regirock's natural movepool options: Rock Slide, Bulldoze, Stone Edge, Earthquake, Thunder Wave, Sandstorm, Curse, Psych Up, Safeguard, Toxic, Explosion, the elemental punches
  
• Regice's natural movepool options: Icy Wind, Blizzard, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Hail, Psych Up, Safeguard, Toxic, Explosion
  
• Theoretically cool move for both Regis: Recover
  
• Probable placement: Somewhere from Snattle to Tyrion
  

Jynx

• Jynx is particularly cool in XG since you made it part Fairy-type. It has great offensive typing to work alongside its good special attack and speed.
  
• Natural movepool options: Ice Beam, Blizzard, Lovely Kiss, Energy Ball, Psychic, Icy Wind, Nasty Plot, Perish Song, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, Water Pulse, Sing (if Lovely Kiss is deemed too good)
  
• Theoretically cool moves: Moonblast, Dazzling Gleam
  
• Probable placement: late Cipher Key Lair to Citadark Isle
  

Ninjask

• Ninjask is pretty much the best Baton Passer available thanks to the combination of Speed Boost and Swords Dance.
  
• With X-Scissor in the game, Ninjask is actually capable of doing damage as well.
  
• Natural movepool options: Baton Pass, Swords Dance, Substitute, Protect, X-Scissor, Aerial Ace, Night Slash
  
• Theoretically cool move: Nasty Plot (can't recall if you already programmed into the game)
  
• Probable placement: Cipher Key Lair to early Citadark Isle
  

Hitmontop

• Hitmontop has two great abilities in Intimidate and Technician and the movepool to complement them.
  
• Natural movepool options: Fake Out, Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, Rolling Kick, High Jump Kick, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Aerial Ace, Triple Kick, Bullet Punch, Quick Attack, Role Play
  
• Probable placement: Cipher Key Lair, near the other Hitmons
  

TL;DR: Eliminating duplicates might mean shifting some Pokemon around in the later game to make space for Pokemon that would be cool earlier on.

Happy to discuss any of the above in more detail if you'd like. I think XG is already a really well designed game (no complaints about the level curve here), but I'd love to contribute.

[StarsMmd]

I figured Milotic crossed your mind at some point since you gave it Moonblast.. that's what gave me the idea, anyway. :tongue: I see what you're saying about changing too many types/stats though. I often see requests for "vanilla" versions of romhacks without modifications to Pokemon, so there must be a fair number of people that prefer games closer to the originals. I'm of the opinion that these changes keep hacks interesting, but I understand the other perspective.

Here are some thoughts on the final boss since you expressed interest in suggestions:

The more I look at the list of fully evolved Pokemon available, the more I see why you chose to include some repeats. By the time you get to Tyrion, nearly every high BST Pokemon is already available. With that said, you might want to consider shifting around some of the last several bosses' Shadow Pokemon. For example, I feel like Mewtwo is more of a final boss Pokemon--though I imagine that you either a) wanted to make Mewtwo available to use against Tyrion or b) didn't want Tyrion to have two Psychic-type legendaries; both of which are fair. I think it's worth noting that avoiding duplicates doesn't have to mean directly replacing them on Tyrion's team. It might be more appropriate to shift some of the higher BST Pokemon up to Tyrion to create some space a little earlier on (this would require changing more than one trainer). With that said, I'll suggest a few Pokemon that I think would have merit either on Tyrion's team or earlier in the game.

Slaking

• Slaking has the second highest Attack stat in the game (behind Deo-A) and is tied for second highest BST in the game (with Groudon and Kyogre, second only to Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Lugia, and Ho-Oh).
  
• Though its ability is crippling (unless you're crazy enough to change it), a physical Shadow attack from Slaking has the potential to hurt harder than one from any of Tyrion's other Pokemon.
  
• I think Slaking is a cool Pokemon for Doubles once purified because it requires some team support to work effectively. Moves like Skill Swap and Follow Me become more interesting.
  
• Natural movepool options: Body Slam, Crush Claw, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Sucker Punch, Play Rough, Gunk Shot, Brick Break, Night Slash, Shadow Claw, the elemental punches, and if you want to program it, Giga Impact.
  
• Theoretically cool moves: Extreme Speed, Knock Off, Belly Drum
  
• Probable placement: Somewhere from Snattle to Tyrion
  

Regirock & Regice

• The other Regis have been brought up before--probably just because people like symmetry and right now only Registeel is available--but I do think they have value as Shadow Pokemon.
  
• One of the team archetypes you list on the main page is stall. While stall isn't super popular for in-game purposes, you give some tools to make it work--SkarmBliss, easy access to Leftovers, lots of Intimidate, weather, etc. The Regis are made to stall.
  
• Regirock's natural movepool options: Rock Slide, Bulldoze, Stone Edge, Earthquake, Thunder Wave, Sandstorm, Curse, Psych Up, Safeguard, Toxic, Explosion, the elemental punches
  
• Regice's natural movepool options: Icy Wind, Blizzard, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Hail, Psych Up, Safeguard, Toxic, Explosion
  
• Theoretically cool move for both Regis: Recover
  
• Probable placement: Somewhere from Snattle to Tyrion
  

Jynx

• Jynx is particularly cool in XG since you made it part Fairy-type. It has great offensive typing to work alongside its good special attack and speed.
  
• Natural movepool options: Ice Beam, Blizzard, Lovely Kiss, Energy Ball, Psychic, Icy Wind, Nasty Plot, Perish Song, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, Water Pulse, Sing (if Lovely Kiss is deemed too good)
  
• Theoretically cool moves: Moonblast, Dazzling Gleam
  
• Probable placement: late Cipher Key Lair to Citadark Isle
  

Ninjask

• Ninjask is pretty much the best Baton Passer available thanks to the combination of Speed Boost and Swords Dance.
  
• With X-Scissor in the game, Ninjask is actually capable of doing damage as well.
  
• Natural movepool options: Baton Pass, Swords Dance, Substitute, Protect, X-Scissor, Aerial Ace, Night Slash
  
• Theoretically cool move: Nasty Plot (can't recall if you already programmed into the game)
  
• Probable placement: Cipher Key Lair to early Citadark Isle
  

Hitmontop

• Hitmontop has two great abilities in Intimidate and Technician and the movepool to complement them.
  
• Natural movepool options: Fake Out, Mach Punch, Sucker Punch, Rolling Kick, High Jump Kick, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Aerial Ace, Triple Kick, Bullet Punch, Quick Attack, Role Play
  
• Probable placement: Cipher Key Lair, near the other Hitmons
  

TL;DR: Eliminating duplicates might mean shifting some Pokemon around in the later game to make space for Pokemon that would be cool earlier on.

Happy to discuss any of the above in more detail if you'd like. I think XG is already a really well designed game (no complaints about the level curve here), but I'd love to contribute.

Thanks for the really detailed discussion. It was really interesting to read. I really like the idea of slaking on the final boss team; it's such a powerful and threatening pokemon. I think I'll add it in. I hadn't before because of it's obvious limitations but I like it as a boss pokemon even if not necessarily to be used by the player. The others are all pokemon which were really close to being included but were narrowly cut. They do all have a lot to offer XG and I really feel like they would add to the game. It's been a while so I can't remember which exact thought processes led to them being cut but they are worth further consideration.

I'll see if I can play around with the game a little and confirm for sure how feasible (or not) it is to add a few more shadow pokemon to the game. If it is possible they would definitely all be added. Otherwise, it might take some more strategising.

[Pokenar]

For some reason Metang can't use the Earthquake TM, yet Serebii lists that it should be able to, I checked both the Gen III and Gen VI listings, did you intentionally remove its ability to use it?

[Jakeyyboy]

For some reason Metang can't use the Earthquake TM, yet Serebii lists that it should be able to, I checked both the Gen III and Gen VI listings, did you intentionally remove its ability to use it?

I was actually trying the same thing and didn't work, so it's probably Metagross.

[PurpleZigzagoon]

So, first of all, great hack! I'm enjoying it so far other than the name changes but I can understand why they're there. I found a bug in the PC where when you go to name the box, the game enters a loop with the music and it gets stuck on a black screen. I tried it earlier this morning for me and thought it was just a fluke but just before typing it, I tried it again. I can drum up a video later if you need it but I felt like this should be pointed out. I typically like to name my boxes when I play Colosseum/Gale of Darkness since I have a tendency to separate my Shadow Pokemon and purified/regular Pokemon. Also, not sure if this has been mentioned or not even though it probably has, the text for the TMs runs off the screen. That could just be me but idk.

Edited June 8, 2016 by PurpleZigzagoon

[StarsMmd]

For some reason Metang can't use the Earthquake TM, yet Serebii lists that it should be able to, I checked both the Gen III and Gen VI listings, did you intentionally remove its ability to use it?

Intentional but simply because I assumed metang couldn't learn earthquake. I will fix that in the next update.

So, first of all, great hack! I'm enjoying it so far other than the name changes but I can understand why they're there. I found a bug in the PC where when you go to name the box, the game enters a loop with the music and it gets stuck on a black screen. I tried it earlier this morning for me and thought it was just a fluke but just before typing it, I tried it again. I can drum up a video later if you need it but I felt like this should be pointed out. I typically like to name my boxes when I play Colosseum/Gale of Darkness since I have a tendency to separate my Shadow Pokemon and purified/regular Pokemon. Also, not sure if this has been mentioned or not even though it probably has, the text for the TMs runs off the screen. That could just be me but idk.

Glad you're enjoying it

I wasn't aware of any box naming glitch. I actually just tried it myself and ran into the same issue. I have no idea why that happens. It's not something I intentionally tweaked in any way. I don't think I'll be able to figure it out any time soon since I wouldn't even know where to start but I've noted it and will take a look later.

The text running off the screen has been mentioned and I presumed it was just because we were all playing in widescreen and it was a consequence of that. I ran it in the regular dimensions to confirm but then realised what the issue was. My code copied the move descriptions for each tm so I wouldn't have to write them all again manually. However, I just noticed that the tm descriptions have a shorter box spanning 3 lines while the summary screen description spans 2 longer lines.

I'll ammend the code so it splits the 2 line text to 3 lines.