[GEN 3] Mystery Event/Gift Research

[Guest]

Yes, that's exactly why I said we can show they'd be legal, but it doesn't prove them legit.

Manaphy is a different beast altogether, because (at least as long as it remains on Gen. IV) it's very easy to see if they hacked it to hatch shiny on their game or if it was traded to another. If they transfer it forward then it probably doesn't matter anymore.

That, and everyone who wants a legit shiny Manaphy knows to trade it over to another game. Lots of people do and have reasons for RNGing ID numbers for it, or RNGing the egg's PID for another game, but there really isn't any reason whatsoever for someone to bother RNGing ID numbers in Gen. III just to nickname events and then un-nickname them.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Guest

[Metropolis]

Shininess is one reason, custom nickname is another reason. Personally I enjoy the challenge of making the impossible possible lol.

Something else, perhaps less unusual to be considered is how Colosseum/XD handles these trash bytes. We know from the save file discussion threads that the internal data structure is quite different in those games. Given Colosseum and are on a different console, it wouldn't surprise me at all for them to have a different character set and to handle the bytes separately.

Tonight I'll generate a 10ANNIV Pokemon from distro cart, record its trash bytes directly from the save, then transfer to Colosseum and back, record its trash bytes again, then transfer to a 10ANNIV/6227/0 GBA save, rename and rename back then record the trash bytes.

I'm concerned with legality not what is legit, but for those who are, I think if post-Colosseum trading is something to consider.

Anyway, I'll post the bytes I get and you can make your own minds up about what is legit.

[Guest]

I own a 10ANNIV distro cart and can investigate the seeding and trash byte routines, however it would devalue an otherwise unique item.

There is nothing otherwise significant about these events, compared to say Wish Chansey or Jirachi.

I expect the value of these carts to increase further in the light of the Pokemon Go revival, gold star Pokemon cards have near tripled in value since.

What is worthy of research (without distro cart) is whether the 10ANNIV/06227/0 combination is rollable on a normal Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald RNG.

If 06227/0 is rollable as a trainer ID/secret ID combination, then a new game with that Trainer ID, Secret ID and player name could be created, then it would be easy to trade them over and re-nickname.

As long as such a trainer ID/secret ID is possible, then it is also possible for the Pokemon to be renicknamed, hence the trash bytes would no indicator of legitimacy.

If this ID combination is never rolled by the RNG, then even if a hacked save allows renicknaming, there would be no 'normal' way to renickname these events.

I think it's highly likely that such an RNG exploit is possible and hence trash bytes don't matter for any of the Gen 3 events. As an example - take Shiny Manaphy in Gen 4, though the event was engineered to roll a PID that would prevent shininess, players found a trick to hatch the egg on a different save with appropriately rolled trainer ID and secret ID, resulting in shiny Manaphy.

I believe that 42225 is the first frame that will roll a trainer ID of 6227 and a secret ID of 0, where the seed is 0 (which it always is on Emerald).

Will test the trading and renaming part using a genuine 10ANNIV event from distro cart and an Emerald save hacked to have 10NNIV/6227/0 as the player name/ID.

The 'missing piece to the chain' of a totally legitimate trade-and-rename of a 10Anniv Pokemon would be for someone to abuse the RNG to create a save with that player Name, trainer ID and secret ID, which I believe is possible.

TLDR: Trash bytes are irrelevant to legitimacy.

First of... COOL!

It would be awesome if you could do that.

To be exact, there are 3 things that need to be investigated...

I think the best would be if we could get the whole algorithm tho', since all of it would be included.

Anyway these are the things that would be interesting to know about...

1: Seeding

2: OT Gender Determination

3: Nickname Trash Bytes

Btw. I totally disagree with what you say that Trash Bytes are irrelevant.

Because it's the only way I could confirm that half of the PCJP03 Eggs I have researched were hacks.

They even had the correct PID Type and all that, so we can say they were really good hacks.

But they had 2 different versions of Trash Bytes which is unique and should not be the case.

Just an example why Trash Bytes are in fact relevant.

But to get to your point... theoretically it's possible to mess with the Nickname in case you have a Ruby Game with the same OT/TID/SID & OT Gender and rename that Pokémon.

Let me ask you, how realistic is it to get a legit save file with all of that? And you would need save files with both Gender OT...

Also in case an 3rd Gen Event Pokémon was renamed, we can say it was touched and therefore can't garantuee its legitimacy...

And I'm not only talking about clean Trash Bytes but also about wrong Trash Byte Types...

It's something that should not be the case and needs to be considered when it comes to legality and should not be ignored.

Shininess is one reason, custom nickname is another reason. Personally I enjoy the challenge of making the impossible possible lol.

Something else, perhaps less unusual to be considered is how Colosseum/XD handles these trash bytes. We know from the save file discussion threads that the internal data structure is quite different in those games. Given Colosseum and are on a different console, it wouldn't surprise me at all for them to have a different character set and to handle the bytes separately.

Tonight I'll generate a 10ANNIV Pokemon from distro cart, record its trash bytes directly from the save, then transfer to Colosseum and back, record its trash bytes again, then transfer to a 10ANNIV/6227/0 GBA save, rename and rename back then record the trash bytes.

I'm concerned with legality not what is legit, but for those who are, I think if post-Colosseum trading is something to consider.

Anyway, I'll post the bytes I get and you can make your own minds up about what is legit.

Yeah, this is something we thought about too, but we couldn't test this yet.

So it would be nice if you could do that.

Edited September 19, 2016 by ajxpkm

[suloku]

Yeah, this is something we thought about too, but we couldn't test this yet.

So it would be nice if you could do that.

Time constrains

Actually, I checked some pokemon I knew I had transfered to/from colosseum and pokemon box (not tested ), seemed like the trash bytes were preserved, but actually testing freshly distributed event pokemon seems way better.

[Guest]

Shininess is one reason, custom nickname is another reason. Personally I enjoy the challenge of making the impossible possible lol.

What does it have to do with shinyness? You're not generating shiny 10ANNIV events by rnging your IDs.

As far as nickname goes, yes, totally, but we're talking people RNGing ID's just so they could nickname them and then nickname them back to original name.

I mean yeah, someone could have done that to nickname, and then removed the nickname later for whatever reason. But that would still be highly unlikely

I mean I don't disagree that it could be possible and that would make them legal, but it'd incredibly unlikely that anyone would have actually done that, so most of the Pokémon that fall in that category were most likely edited via external means.

[Real.96]

Ok guys, now i can tell you for sure that day 19 french shappire cart will be shipped to Nintendo sorry for the waiting

[Metropolis]

Before trading to Colosseum, a freshly generated 10Anniv Lugia had: (do & 0xff to get them in the usual 0 to 255 range)

Nickname: [-58, -49, -63, -61, -69, -1, 1, 52, 1, 49] (-1 is the terminator after LUGIA)

TrainerName: [-94, -95, -69, -56, -56, -61, -48] (which is 10ANNIV the full length, so no trash bytes here!)

Caught Location: 255

Caught Game: 2 (Ruby even though it's transferred to a FireRed cart)

The full profile of the Pokemon:

Pokemon3 [attacks=Attacks3 [currentPP1=20, currentPP2=5, currentPP3=5, currentPP4=20, moveIndex1=105, moveIndex2=56, moveIndex3=240, moveIndex4=129, ppUps1=0, ppUps2=0, ppUps3=0, ppUps4=0], caught=Caught3 [byte18=2, caughtGame=2, caughtLevel=70, caughtLocation=255, caughtTrainerFemale=true, language=2, pokeball=4, secretID=0, trainerID=6227, trainerName=10ANNIV], core=Core3 [attackEV=0, beauty=0, cool=0, cute=0, defenseEV=0, egg=false, experience=428750, feel=0, heldItem=0, hpEV=0, nickname=LUGIA, smart=0, specialAttackEV=0, specialDefenseEV=0, species=249, speedEV=0, tough=0], genetics=Genetics3 [alternateAbility=false, attackIV=25, defenseIV=28, fatefulEncounter=false, hpIV=7, mark1=false, mark2=false, mark3=false, mark4=false, personalityValue=3552858335, pokerusDuration=0, pokerusStrain=0, specialAttackIV=17, specialDefenseIV=2, speedIV=3, friendship=0], ribbons=Ribbons3 [beautyRank=0, coolRank=0, cuteRank=0, ribbonArtist=false, ribbonCountry=false, ribbonEffort=false, ribbonLand=false, ribbonLeague=false, ribbonMarine=false, ribbonMtBattle=false, ribbonPurified=false, ribbonSky=false, ribbonTower100=false, ribbonTower50=false, ribbonWorld=false, smartRank=0, toughRank=0]]

I have no idea what is significant about these trash bytes or if they are just the bytes that were there before it starting writing to that part of the memory.

After trading to Colosseum and back the nickname bytes:

Nickname: [-58, -49, -63, -61, -69, -1, 0, 0, 0, 0]

The full profile of the Pokemon:

Pokemon3 [attacks=Attacks3 [currentPP1=20, currentPP2=5, currentPP3=5, currentPP4=20, moveIndex1=105, moveIndex2=56, moveIndex3=240, moveIndex4=129, ppUps1=0, ppUps2=0, ppUps3=0, ppUps4=0], caught=Caught3 [byte18=2, caughtGame=2, caughtLevel=70, caughtLocation=255, caughtTrainerFemale=true, language=2, pokeball=4, secretID=0, trainerID=6227, trainerName=10ANNIV], core=Core3 [attackEV=0, beauty=0, cool=0, cute=0, defenseEV=0, egg=false, experience=428750, feel=0, heldItem=0, hpEV=0, nickname=LUGIA, smart=0, specialAttackEV=0, specialDefenseEV=0, species=249, speedEV=0, tough=0], genetics=Genetics3 [alternateAbility=false, attackIV=25, defenseIV=28, fatefulEncounter=false, hpIV=7, mark1=false, mark2=false, mark3=false, mark4=false, personalityValue=3552858335, pokerusDuration=0, pokerusStrain=0, specialAttackIV=17, specialDefenseIV=2, speedIV=3, friendship=70], ribbons=Ribbons3 [beautyRank=0, coolRank=0, cuteRank=0, ribbonArtist=false, ribbonCountry=false, ribbonEffort=false, ribbonLand=false, ribbonLeague=false, ribbonMarine=false, ribbonMtBattle=false, ribbonPurified=false, ribbonSky=false, ribbonTower100=false, ribbonTower50=false, ribbonWorld=false, smartRank=0, toughRank=0]]

So there you have it: trading to and from Colosseum nulls the trash bytes after the terminator, hence trash bytes are of no relevance to a Pokemon's legality whatsoever - not even renaming them is required!

[Metropolis]

Incidentally, a post by Kaphotics describes an algorithm for deducing the PID:

Take the PID. XXXXYYYY.

Flip It. YYYYXXXX

To Decimal. 1234567890

Use IVPID, get list of possible IV spreads.

Use Shaym.in (http://shaym.in/apps/iv_checker) to reverse the PIDIV to the SEED. If you have the right IVs for the PID, it will reverse into a 0000ZZZZ seed.

Here we have PID=0xD3C450DF

Flipped: 0x50DFD3C4

To decimal: 1356846020

IVs are 7/25/28/3/17/2

Anyone know what to do next to get the seed?

[Guest]

Thank you very much @Metropolis, this is interesting indeed.

But again, I disagree with your opinion regarding the Trash Bytes relevance when it comes to legality.

And this is not so much about opinion, we can't ignore facts, right?

You proofed that there are ways to clean these Trash Bytes up... good!

But what does that change in terms of legality? To be honest, it doesn't change much, except making it more complicated.

And it definitely doesn't means that Trash Bytes can't be used for legality checking.

This is something that would have at least to be pointed out in an legal checker and should not be ignored, even it doesn't necessarily means that a Pokémon with 0 Trash Bytes is hacked.

But its data isn't exactly the same as it was when it was orginally generated. There are people who would strongly care about that.

So we definitely should take these Trash Bytes to account netherless instead of just saying they're "irrelevant".

And like I said, in some occasions Trash Bytes are even more important.

It's for example a huge difference if we talk about 0 padding or if we talk about wrong Trash Bytes.

And there are other special cases like Egg Events. (Small Note: Eggs can't be traded to COL/XD and can't be nicknamed either...)

Like the PCJP03 Eggs I talked about who had the wrong type of Trash Bytes which they shouldn't have and this can only mean that they're hacked.

I'm not the first one who feels that some of these PCJP03 Eggs are suspicious. It's only a nail in the coffin, you can read about it here.

(There you also can read about how to get the Seed.)

Another indicator (and IMO even far more important thing) is the determination of the OT Gender.

Many 3rd Gen Event Pokémon had one of the two different Genders which should be part of the algorithm.

So to every Seed there must be fixed OT Gender, male or female.

Regarding the Seed, well... it would be good if we could do this more efficient.

We're literally searching for a needle in the hay. I think it would be way more efficient if we research the generation process itself.

Because this would give us answers where the Distribution ROM took the Seed from exactly and possibly teach us about all the other stuff as well.

I really wished we would have someone with dissassembly skills on board, it would make things so much easier.

My dissassembly skills are rather limited, but I could try to do it if necessary.

Edited September 16, 2016 by ajxpkm

[Metropolis]

I haven't disassembled code before, but have the skills to learn. It's something I might look into now and again, there's some tutorials online on how to get started that look good.

You're right yes, some people may care about a purely untouched Pokemon. Personally I don't, I'm only interested in data preserved by trading (IVs, PID etc) but that's just my bias, I'm all for understanding more about how the entire data structure is generated. My instinct is that the trash bytes are probably just whatever was already there and may even be constructible to any values at all by nicknaming the Pokemon in the slot before. I'll have an experiment with that and see if I can get some special values there.

You're right that disassembling is critical to understanding the OT gender, which would also solve the trash byte mystery anyhow.

[suloku]

I was wondering, since you have the distro rom, you should dump it and try rnging in an emulator (far easier).

I don't know if it would be possible to rng with it, but if the same frame generates the same seed-pid-iv but the trash bytes change depending on the previously distributed pokemon would clarify this a little. If they are alwaysbthe same trash bytes regardless, it would be the best outcome, if they are not, figuring out if they are totally random or rather there are only a few valid trash combinations would be quite difficult unless REing it.

[Invader TAK]

-snip-

I'll be "that guy" and get this out of the way. What'd be absolutely amazing would be the Aurora Ticket and 10ANNIV distro ROMs to go with all the dumped DS distro roms, but I understand if that's too much to ask (because of how rare these are compared to the DS distros, that legal agreement you made with the guy in Rome and posting them here would be against the rules anyway).

[Guest]

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Edited December 22, 2019 by Guest

[Invader TAK]

The agreement was only for the "unleaked" carts. I already had 10ANNIV and Aurora and still have them, so I can freely sell the extra copies I bought from him. I'm not sure what you meant though? You mean sharing the ROMs publicly?

To be honest, I don't know if I can do that. No agreement forces me not to share them, but I paid a lot for the bunch of carts I bought. Initially, they were just for private use or for trades with other distribution carts. But as a PhD student, with a rent to pay and all the various expenses, money can be tight, so sometimes I sell some carts because I need money.

I'm afraid the carts would get devalued a lot in case the ROMs became public ( just like a lot of the DS ones), so at the moment I would not like to share them, but maybe in the future I will. I received some money offer for the ROMs but I'm not too keen on accepting them, I'd like to sell the carts. If anyone who buys the cart asks me for the ROM too I can send the ROM via dropbox so that he or she won't have to buy a Flash2Advance to dump it.

I did indeed mean sharing the ROMs. And yeah, I understand the reluctance to share them. Just figured I'd get that discussion out of the way now.

[Guest]

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Edited December 22, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

Hey @XJ55! Nice to see you here.

Thank you for the compliment. I have sent you a PM.

And thanks for the clarification about everything.

Sorry for all the trouble.

[N7Kopper]

I don't have any research to contribute, but since this sort of thing involves dumping save files, and in some cases even ROMs, and you guys were talking about stuff like Flash2Advance as little as two days ago, I found a neat little tool a while back that massively lowers the bar to entry for dumping GBA stuff. http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3410

All you need is a homebrewed GCN/Wii and the appropriate link cable. It's slow, but it works. Probably something for the Game Boy Player on that site too if you have one of those.

[Guest]

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Edited December 22, 2019 by Guest

[Invader TAK]

Or just use a DS with Rudolph's GBA Backup Tool. Backups and restores all save types and backups roms.

That's what I use.

[Real.96]

I'm going to the Post office to ship the french shappire cart our dream is near!

[Invader TAK]

I'm going to the Post office to ship the french shappire cart our dream is near!

I think this video says all that needs to be said.

[video=youtube;P3ALwKeSEYs]

[Real.96]

I think this video says all that needs to be said.

[video=youtube;P3ALwKeSEYs]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I love you

[theskipster]

So once we get the French Sapphire cart back, that's all we need right? Except for the American Mystic Tickets and Eggs, which it sounds like we've all but given up on.

[Guest]

I haven't given up on the Mystic Tickets.

But it kinda looks like I'm the only one who's still fighting to get them.

There's still a lot of people who have been to the Events, but I haven't contacted them yet.

I actually wonder why so many think there's no chance, I mean what have you tried so far to be so sure about it?

I can tell you one thing for sure... with just waiting and hoping that someone finds us we're not coming far...

All I can say that this summer I was talking with many collectors...

And there's something I haven't talked about in public yet. There might be a big reveal over the time, that's all I can say for now.

One thing I can say for now is that there are still chances. The potential that we can get more Events is there.

Before anyone asks about what else we could do than contacting people directly... (I personally don't like contacting people who I don't know... haha)

For example, one thing that hasn't been done yet is, we could advertise this project to get more attention and this way possibly reach someone who has what we want.

I would recommend to do this before we release the Tool, because after the Release it becomes more likely that we're just getting scammed.

[Invader TAK]

I haven't given up on the Mystic Tickets.

But it kinda looks like I'm the only one who's still fighting to get them.

There's still a lot of people who have been to the Events, but I haven't contacted them yet.

Since Real FINALLY sent French Sapphire off, it might be a good idea to contact those people.