Silent Storm Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Introduction: ------------------------------------------------------------------ I personally like offensive play as well as offensive teams, when played correctly offensive teams can end matches very quickly for me. My goal here (was) is to have immunity and resistances to: Spikes Toxic Spikes Stealth Rock In a way I have accomplished most of those, which me only having one Stealth Rock weak Pokemon and one Pokemon hit by Spikes / Toxic Spikes. My second goal is to try and have an alternate win condition, Azelf is my main late game attacker as well as my back up card in case Salamence or Scizor somehow fall early game, with this offensive team I can't really play around as one wrong move can potentially end the game for me, then again I have gotten better at playing with offensive teams. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Offensive Team Line Up ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ My opinions plus summary ------------------------------------------------------------------ From the current line up things are looking decent for me, this team is not afraid of and entry hazards (which could screw me over) also the type coverage is excellent when you look deeper into things I tried to have as many resistances as possible while using some of my favorite Pokemon, though Swampert is not really one of my favs he does help this team out from time to time I am liking the line up, I have a lead that set up Stealth Rock reliably while dealing with most leads and common threats. ------------------------------------------------------------------ In-depth look ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jirachi @ Choice Scarf Ability: Serene Grace Nature: Jolly (+Speed, -Special Attack) EVs: 80 HP| 252 Attack | 176 Speed U-Turn Trick Stealth Rock Iron Head ....................... Comments & Suggestions: Swampert originally was here in place of Jirachi, but seeing I hate Swampert now also the fact that he is affected by Toxic Spikes means he need to be replaced. Anyways, Jirachi himself is a marvelous lead, being a lead that achieves setting up rocks effectively is a plus while having Choice Scarf means I have a great weapon against the likes of Scizor (if I decide to ditch Trick) Salamence (Ice Punch) while adding a bit of hax into the game. I made some small changes to the moveset, removing U-Turn completely and adding Trick into the mix, even though I hardly ever feel the need to use it, having it there can help at times. The EVs are borrowed from a set on Smogon, 200 Speed EVs makes it so Jirachi hits 429, which outruns lead Aerodactyl and Azelf (non scarfed), then I split the EVs in half giving Jirachi a bit of health and attack respectively. Jirachi being a steel combos well with Latias and Salamence, but also gives my team triple ground weakness, which I am not too bothered about. Though I am having problems with what to add, if I add Fire Punch then Scizor is defiantly going down, if I add U-Turn then I have some scouting, but that is assuming I have Trick here, I might go with Fire Punch as I really don't like Scizor. ------ Salamence @ Life Orb Ability: Intimidate Nature: Naive (+ Speed, - Special Defense) EVs: 16 Attack | 240 Special Attack | 252 Speed Outrage Draco Meteor Brick Break Flamethrower ....................... Comments & Suggestions: Salamence is by far the most controversial Pokemon I have used, but now he seems to be working extremely well for me. Salamence has near un-resistance coverage to everything, this helps with his great speed and nice distributed stats, Salamence on a whole is the best member here as he does not need one turn to cause hell for anyone. Salamence's moveset can go either way here, if I need the extra power then I keep Fire Blast and Earthquake, but here I am minizing risk, so Brick Break and Flamethrower is the best choice for me, Flamethrower hits the same thing but has better accuracy and brick Break hits Blissey incase I am saving Outrage for late game, it also scouts Skarmory switch ins which are taken care of by fire just incase he decides to stay in predicting an Outrage, Skarmory is not getting past Salamence. ------ Scizor @ Choice Band Ability: Technician Nature: Adamant (+ Attack, - Special Attack) EVs: 248 HP | 252 Attack | 8 Speed Bullet Punch Superpower Pursuit U-Turn ....................... Comments & Suggestions: Scizor with Choice Band is an excellent addition to any offensive team that needs a raw revenge killing Pokemon, with Choice Band + Stealth Rock you are looking at killing alot of Pokemon denting enough to be killed by other offensive pokemon. The key to this set is making sure you are not predicable, this means most of the time you are going to need to use the odd pursuit, but I mainly stick to U-Turning *** scouting is a massive help, with U-Turn I can plan what my next move is gonna be, though this does not work against his main counter that being Heatran, a well predicated Superpower decimates his ***, and if it is not Scizor I am still doing hells worth of damage providing a ghost does not come in and kill me. This is also the perfect trapper imo as well as the best set for Scizor, Choice Band + Bullet Punch will indefinitely deal with Gengar, and if he decides to switch out, Pursuit deals with him, Gengar as well as everything that is weak to Pursuit is in a no win situation when in the same ring as Scizor. ------ Latias @ Life Orb Ability: Levitate Nature: Modest (+Special Attack, - Attack) EVs: 80 HP | 252 Special Attack | 176 Speed Surf Recover Psycho Shift Draco Meteor ....................... Comments & Suggestions: Credits to Panamaxis for the set. Latias has been placed here as not only does she deal quite a bit of damage but she also deals quite a bit of damage to opposing teams but she also deals with something that can screw over any offensive team, that being Status moves, PS absorbs all Satatus aimed at party members and sends it right back to the opposing Pokemon, which can win you matches. Now this is a vital member, I need some way of stopping Infernape, where according to most people, every team is weak to, Latias with her bulk and type deals with Infernape effectively, with her reliable recovery and decent special attack, she is normally one of the last Pokemon to die in battle. ------ Infernape @ Life Orb Ability: Blaze Nature: Naive (+ Speed, - Special Defense) EVs: 252 Attack | 64 Special Attack | 192 Speed U-Turn Close Combat Mach Punch Overheat ....................... Comments & Suggestions: Though this set is not as deadly as the Lucario set I had, Infernape (physically based) can still provide my team with as much offensive power checking many threats that are extremely annoying (them being Agility Empoleon) The set itself is not generally fast for my liking, but with U-Turn and Mach Punch in his set, speed is not an issue for me, the main thing about this set is that Infernape is able to take down Lucario and Empoleon with ease if they happen to switch in and set up on one of my Pokemon (Scizor is usually set up on) Mach Punch strikes first always dealing great amounts of damage to those two while U-Turn is used as my secondary scouting move if I correctly predict a flying switch in or Latias, who loses half her health from U-Turn. Infernape being similar to Lucario in terms of offensive power can function as both an early and late game attacker, in fact, even though I enjoy using Lucario I prefer Infernape over Lucario as Lucario opened me up to a fire weakness. ------ Suicune @ Leftovers Ability: Pressure Nature: Timid (+Speed, - Attack) EVs: 40 HP | 252 Special Attack | 216 Speed Calm Mind Ice Beam Hidden Power [Electric] Surf ....................... Comments & Suggestions: To solve my issue with Gyarados which pretty much sweeps my team I decided to sacrifice spikes immunity for dealing with him. Suicune acts are my only set up Pokemon, being able to deal with threats in the game while dealing with my biggest problem which is Gyarados, after Stealth Rock Suicune is able to one hit KO with or without a Calm Mind boost, this is added by Life Orb. Though Suicune is a tank, I believe this set with Life Orb is powerful, I was thinking of using Leftovers but I decided that the extra power with Life Orb was more important than recovery. The EVs may look weird but I swear it works, with 172 HP Suciune's life is prolonged while the rest have been distributed evenly to give Suicune a bit of power and speed, though I am considering going with the standard eV spread for him, right now this spread is working fine for me. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Change Log: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Changed Swampert with Jirachi. Changed Lucario with Infernape. Changed Latias spread. Gave Salamence Earthquake and Flamethrower over Brick Break and Fire Blast. Gave Azelf Flamethrower over Thunderbolt. Gave Jirachi Trick over Fire Punch. Gave Jirachi Ice Punch over U-Turn. Gave Jirachi Fire Punch over Ice Punch. Gave Salamence Brick Break over Earthquake. Changed Azelf for Suicune. Gave Suicune Leftovers. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Threat List ------------------------------------------------------------------ Green means they are not a problem for me. Orange means they can cause a bit of trouble. Red means they are very difficult to take down. Offensive Threats Aerodactyl : Not common these days but Scizor kills him with Bullet Punch. --- Alakazam : Scizor does well if he don’t come in on focus blast, same with other steel Pokemon I decide to use. --- Azelf : Same boat as Aerodactyl, only that he is more common. --- Breloom : Hard guy to beat but I usually let a weak member get spored and then switch into someone that resists focus punch, Azelf should be able to do something once sub is broken. --- Dragonite : Scizor does well against alot of sets bar the mix set but Jirachi should be able to do at least a bit. --- Dugtrio : After he has taken down a member Scizor can come in and deal with him thanks to Bullet Punch. --- Electivire : Hmm, he is also a rare Pokemon to see nowadays, at worst he can switch in on Latias's Thunderbolt and get a speed boost. I would normally scout if it’s mixed or special. If it’s special, Latias handles it effectivly. If he’s physical I bait in an predicable Ice punch and Scizor handles the rest. --- Empoloen : First priority is to not this set up or I am finished, if it does get to set up, Latias can do well as most carry Grass Knot over Ice Beam and Infernape can do quite a bit thanks to Mach Punch. --- Flygon : He is kinda hard to beat but Scizor does ok (?) against U-turn, Stone Edge and Outrage as can Jirachi. --- Gengar : Usually with Choice Scarf, so prediction is key here. If it does not have Scarf, I will lure out Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Ice and Bullet Punch/Pursuit it. Scizor works well in this area. --- Gyarados : Problem Pokemon , I need to switch around Intimidates and maybe score a lucky DM from Latias, Suicune can kill it after Stealth Rock. --- Heatran : Latias is the star in this department. --- Heracross : Salamence does well against Megahorn and Close Combat attacks if scarfed. --- Infernape : He is not a problem, Latias handles him as does Azelf for revenge killing. --- Jirachi : Scarfed versions are normally the leads, in this case, I my Jirachi should out speed standard adamant versions. --- Jolteon : Latias does well due to her high special defense. --- Kingdra : Problem but I normally switch Salamence in for Intimidate as it Dragon Dances then it gets tricky, I can Outrage as he DD's or I can switch to Scizor as he Outrages, not the best plan. =p --- Latias : The steel members of this team, being Scizor, she is hurt by Infernape's U-Turn if she comes in on it. --- Lucario : Salamence can intimidate on him but is scared of Extremespeed/Bullet Punch, Infernape can harm him with Mach Punch. --- Machamp : Poor speed leaves him open to Salamence. Dynamic Punch confusion is the worst thing that can happen though. --- Magnezone : Latias can do a bit with surf. --- Mamoswine : Scizor can come in on the Ice Shard and deal with him with Bullet Punch but needs to watch out for Choice Band Earthquake, Jirachi with Iron Head. --- Metagross : Scizor can come in on the Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch combo, take little damage from un boosted Earthquakes and then U-turn into Salamence who can win from there if Bullet Punch is not present. --- Porygon-Z : Scizor and Latias handle him quite wellas does Infernape. --- Rhyperior : Never let it set up also. Scizor 2HKOs with Bullet Punch. Salamence can use Draco Meteor, which is a possible kill without SS and Infernape can deal with him thanks to his fighting moves. --- Salamence : Scizor can kill it at about 60% health, he is a ***** to kill thanks to Intimidate so I try to never let it set up, I believe Jirachi helps thanks to CS and Ice Punch. --- Scizor : Salamence can do well if his HP is high enough thanks to Intimidate, Jirachi can do well with Iron Head if I am lucky at low health. --- Starmie : Latias does well against the rapid spinner set as well as other sets. --- Togekiss : Latias can come in on predicted Thunder Waves and pass it back as well as deal with him/her, Jirachi can do well against non scarfed versions. --- Tyranitar : Scizor OHKOs with Bullet Punch and Superpower. Infernape revenge kills him to an extent, Jirachi haxes him to death. --- Weavile : Infernape and Scizor wastes this guy. --- Yanmega : If it does not have Hypnosis Scizor ruins him. If it does have Hypnosis I still have a chance of win thanks to the poor accuracy. If I do get hypnotized, Latias will be able to take a bit. Defensive Threat List: Blissey : Nearly everything on my team has ways of beating it. --- Bronzong : Scizor comes in, U-turns into Salamence who then proceeds to killing him with Flamethrower. --- Celebi : Scizor unless it has HP fire is present. Salamence burns him up with Flamethrower. --- Cresselia : Scizor and Infernape does a lot of damage with U-turn so that is a big help. If it comes on Salamence, the Dragon Meteor combo will wear it down enough for one of my other members to finish it off. --- Donphan : Ice Shard doesn’t kill Salamence with Intimidate and I can kill with Draco Meteor. --- Forretress : Salamence with Flamethrower deals a lot to him. --- Gliscor : Salamence with Draco Meteor deals quite a bit to him. --- Hippowdon : He is slow so Salamence with Draco, Latias with Surf and Suicune should be able to handle him --- Skarmory : Salamence kills him with Flamethrower and Infernape kills him with Overheat --- Snorlax : Scizor’s CB Superpower murders him. Salamence with brick Break kills him. --- Suicune: If it comes in on Salamence, Draco Meteor plus Outrage will weaken it but is hell to kill. --- Swampert : Usually comes in on Salamence. Draco Meteor should take it out, Scizor's U-Turn does something also. --- Tentacruel : Semi problem as I lack ground physical moves, I guess an Outrage from Salamence can do something. --- Vaporeon : If it has HP Electric, Salamence beats it but is wary of the odd Ice Beam. --- Zapdos : Salamence KOs with Draco Meteor after SR, but is a big problem when most things are weak/down Edited May 24, 2009 by Silent Storm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illithian Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Sorry, atm I really don't have time for a full RMT. I will later. Your Swampert doesn't even HAVE stealth rock. A Fighting type will tear through your team; the only person who resists is Latias and none of your pokemon have anything above a neutral hit against one. Ice types tear through Salamence and Latias and a hail team will have a field day on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraith89 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Doesn't Focus Sash defeat the whole purpose of a bulky Swampert? I would rather use Leftovers on it... but I guess Focus Sash works on surprise Grass moves, but look how you EV'd it... in my opinion I find Focus Sash counter-intuitive to a bulky thing like Swampert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Storm Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 Lol leftovers sprite was there but forgot to put leftovers in as well as forgot to put Stealth Rock on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMaster Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Your lucario is named Salamence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Storm Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 Sorry, atm I really don't have time for a full RMT. I will later.Your Swampert doesn't even HAVE stealth rock. A Fighting type will tear through your team; the only person who resists is Latias and none of your pokemon have anything above a neutral hit against one. Ice types tear through Salamence and Latias and a hail team will have a field day on this one. =/ This is no help at all, all you really did was list weaknesses. I am not stupid, yes I know dragons are weak to ice, I know none of my pokemon "fighting" at se, frankly I don't care. Then you tell hail teams have a field day with this team, ok so you are now assuming I can't kill anything on a hail team, hell I can say you think nothing here can even do any damage to hail teams, should I go on? Note that this is Platinum not DP, I don't run into hails so I don't care, even if I did so what if I "lose"? I can't counter everything like in D/P that includes hail teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enkidu Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Scizor tears through Hail teams so thats a non issue, swampert needs roar to get rid of Walrein ( for hail teams ) rack up residual damage and phaze out Stat uppers like cursepert/curselax. Good offensive teams do not NEED Gyarados, what they need are multiple levitators, Steels or flying types to avoid Toxic spikes/Spikes AND ground attacks. Resistance to sandstorm makes steel types quite useful as well but being trapped by Magnezone sucks. On this team in particular Kingdra is the odd man out. He's not really adding much in terms of synergy and his lum berry has gone to waste if he's up against a breloom or a roserade. I can't give you a full rate right now, but those are just some things to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illithian Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 =/ This is no help at all, all you really did was list weaknesses.I am not stupid, yes I know dragons are weak to ice, I know none of my pokemon "fighting" at se, frankly I don't care. Then you tell hail teams have a field day with this team, ok so you are now assuming I can't kill anything on a hail team, hell I can say you think nothing here can even do any damage to hail teams, should I go on? Note that this is Platinum not DP, I don't run into hails so I don't care, even if I did so what if I "lose"? I can't counter everything like in D/P that includes hail teams. Sorry for the horrible RMT, but I didn't really have time to look at the team in depth. =| I don't really know how to respond to that comment other then to apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Storm Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 Its cool, I was quite aggressive so sorry. @En - Yeah I myself was unsure about Kingdra, maybe though I might add Gyarados in the end as he bypasses ground and spikes, or I might give Azelf or Suicune a shot and change my lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illithian Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 @En - Yeah I myself was unsure about Kingdra, maybe though I might add Gyarados in the end as he bypasses ground and spikes, or I might give Azelf or Suicune a shot and change my lead. You might want to consider a CB Mamo or a Mixmamo as a replacement for Kingdra. A Donphan RSer would be useful too since theres all those SRs around and toxic spikes really hurts this team. It fits the offensive style with 120 attack, but low speed might not make it worthwhile considering. For pure offense, a NP Mixape might do your team well (or just a Mixape). All at your discretion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Storm Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 Any rapid spinner would be a waste on a team like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Storm Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 I updated the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destati Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I updated YOUR FACE Swampert is not a lead, mostly since it can't counter trick sets that well. He's meant to be the pokemon to switch to once your anti-lead messes the opponent up How is Salamence a controversial pokemon >_>. EQ isn't going to do much with your Salamence without many attack evs. If you want to go mixed, use 84 Atk / 216 SpA / 208 Spe with a Mild nature. And replace flamethrower with fire blast. Scizor is ZOMG STANDARD Psycho Shift is useless. Its not as easy as predicting a status ailment and sending in Latias. And no, it can't "win matches" as you said. Its EVs are all over the place. What is 100 speed supposed to outrun? Also, any team with a Scizor or T-tar can counter Latias. Lucario will disappear from your party. BECAUSE HE DIES. Regarding Azelf, Lucario is your late-game clean up. I see your Azelf more as a middleman. The pokemon you use in the middle of the game along with Salamence. Ok, are you ready for my favorite phrase? ZAPDOS WEAK Yeah. And don't bet on Swampert doing anything with Zapdos having HP Grass 80% of the time. Besides Swampert, you don't have any rock or ice moves. You're not just Zapdos weak, you're Salamence and Flygon weak. Also, Many Zapdos go special defensive too, and there's always a chance it does carry HP Ice. Salamence is not a counter to Zapdos. Making the wrong decision can destroy you. Latias is a Zapdos blocker, but it can't get any SE hits in. Personally I'd go with the Calm Mind set. But again, you need something to block Flygon with. Don't bet on Scizor blocking it when it carries Fire Blast a lot. Also, the Salamence mentioned in the counter secion of Lucario's smogon analysis assumes there isn't a SR in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Storm Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share Posted May 4, 2009 I updated YOUR FACE??Swampert is not a lead, mostly since it can't counter trick sets that well. He's meant to be the pokemon to switch to once your anti-lead messes the opponent upI don't really care about countering trick leads as I never really run into them? How is Salamence a controversial pokemon >_>. EQ isn't going to do much with your Salamence without many attack evs. If you want to go mixed, use 84 Atk / 216 SpA / 208 Spe with a Mild nature. And replace flamethrower with fire blast.@Bolded part - Eh he is to me, maybe that was not best word to use but when I first used him he never really got me any KOs so I ditched him till now.@ the rest - Not changing the spread, speed is crucial for this set as it outspeeds base 100 Pokemon while tieing with Zapdos and other Salamence *(that seem to run max speed all of a sudden) dropping speed while replacing Flamthrower with Fire Blast is not really the best idea imo. Scizor is ZOMG STANDARD?Psycho Shift is useless. Its not as easy as predicting a status ailment and sending in Latias. And no, it can't "win matches" as you said. Its EVs are all over the place. What is 100 speed supposed to outrun? Also, any team with a Scizor or T-tar can counter Latias. @bolded part - Eh I already know that. The key to that Latias set is the special attack, at the very least I can hit Scizor and Tyranitar enough for a 2HKP and before you say anything again I am not going to be keeping her in on them (wait they have pursuit so I might as well stay in and do as much damage as possible right? then if I manage to 2HKO them I can heal right? the HP EVs help with survivability and the 100 speed evs just gives her an extra bit of speed). Lucario will disappear from your party. BECAUSE HE DIES.Every pokemon dies, your point?Yeah. And don't bet on Swampert doing anything with Zapdos having HP Grass 80% of the time. Besides Swampert, you don't have any rock or ice moves. You're not just Zapdos weak, you're Salamence and Flygon weak. Also, Many Zapdos go special defensive too, and there's always a chance it does carry HP Ice. Salamence is not a counter to Zapdos. Making the wrong decision can destroy you. Latias is a Zapdos blocker, but it can't get any SE hits in. Personally I'd go with the Calm Mind set. But again, you need something to block Flygon with. Don't bet on Scizor blocking it when it carries Fire Blast a lot.@Swampert part - I never keep him in on Zapdos anyway >.>.Next I never said Salamence was a counter to Zapdos, all I said was Salamence can kill Zapdos with Draco Meteor after Stealth Rock. Thirdly most Flygon are Choice Scarfed, I also said Scizor does well against all his other moves as I am well aware that Flygon will most likely have Fire Blast, but in most cases it will be used of revenge killing, I send Scizor in on Flygon as alot of the Flygon users use U-Turn for scouting. Note - I am well aware I have trouble against Salamence, Zapdos and Flygon, I have used this team you know? I also know that this is Platinum, I can't counter everything only using 6 Pokemon? so at the very best I use checks, which are not full blown counters but they help in defeating those Pokemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomspot555 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 First off, apologies to SS for re-opening the thread even though he's offline and I couldn't ask him. But there ARE some crappy rates here, and it needs to be pointed out. If you are not knowledgeable of the competitive aspect of Pokemon, you should probably stick to lurking instead of posting. You can learn a lot by asking questions in the main Competitive Battling forum and reading the many, many threads there. This is still a fairly young forum, so I'll be lenient for now. But if I see repeated crap rates from the same people, action may be taken. I updated YOUR FACE (if you're going to make a joke, it better be a good one *ba da bump, crash*.) Swampert is not a lead, mostly since it can't counter trick sets that well. He's meant to be the pokemon to switch to once your anti-lead messes the opponent up For being #4 on Shoddy Leads, why are you saying it isn't a lead? Most of the top 10 leads aren't utilizing Trick, as far as I can tell. It's certainly a strategy to watch out for in the overall game, but it's not an overt concern at the start. Also, it's ridiculous to expect a lead to be able to counter every other common type of lead strategy out there. You'll inevitably miss out on one or two. That's just how the game works. If you don't personally like the lead, more power to you. But your personal opinion shouldn't cloud the fact that it can be competitively viable. EQ isn't going to do much with your Salamence without many attack evs. If you want to go mixed, use 84 Atk / 216 SpA / 208 Spe with a Mild nature. And replace flamethrower with fire blast. I imagine it's there for Heatran. Scizor is ZOMG STANDARD And this is spam. There's nothing wrong with using a "standard" set if that's what serves the team. Using non-standard Pokemon or non-standard sets just for the sake of being "different" is just as dumb as slapping 6 OU sets together and calling it a team. Lucario will disappear from your party. BECAUSE HE DIES. Lucario, Weavile, and Infernape are frail. News at 11. Yes, we know. It can't take hits. But that isn't the point of the set. Frail pokemon can be used in any part of the game as long as the strategy is suitable and they aren't coming in on attacks that they can't handle. ZAPDOS WEAK Also spam. But at least you go on to explain it, albeit briefly and poorly. But you don't explain after "Salamence and Flygon weak." Zapdos takes down Swampert and Scizor, no questions asked. But it can't exactly go in and out due to SR, and there's only a handful of attacks it can safely come in on. Actually, I suspect your rating skills aren't horrible. And more than a few parts of your rate actually had merit. But you make several unsubstantiated claims, or make statements that aren't competitively viable (omgzers teh standard). And that ultimately drags you down as a rater. (and you aren't the worst rate in the thread, since you at least backed up some of your claims). I'm going to close this thread but leave it open for public viewing (and will re-open it if SS says I can). Let this be a warning to all: If you're going to rate, BACK UP YOUR CLAIM and suggest how to fix it. Failure to do so will be considered spam. This doesn't mean you can't be a good rater eventually, but spend some time lurking, and asking questions in the general Competitive Battle forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enkidu Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I hope your not referring to my rates as crappy, I try you know. And If I really need to defend my post by telling you that ice is weak to Steel and no ice pokemon aside from wallrein in hail with Substitute and protect can Take a CB bullet punch and not be OHKO'd or 2HKO'd without being able to do much back ( without Hidden power fire ). . . I think you may need to learn a bit more before posting a team here and getting a rate anyway. ANYWAY, I really like the changes to your team Silent, it's similar to a team I used to run around Christmas time. Salamence , Scizor, Azelf and Latias have Wonderful synergy with each other. However without flamethrower on Azelf or Hidden power fire on Latias ( not both, simply one or the other to aid Salamence in having a fire attack ) Scizor can do quite a bit of damage mid game to your entire team ( assuming he's at Full life and you both have Stealth rocks up. ) The SD set takes out Latias, Azelf and your own scizor while +2 superpower OHKO's Lucario and a +2 Brick break has a high chance of doing so. Salamence is your best bet of stopping him, but the beast ( salamence ) tends to go down early game before scizor is shown, or at least be under 60% hp by that time making it an easy OHKO with bullet punch. Also aside from swampert toxic spikes/spikes don't even phaze your team which is incredibly useful on an offensive team. However as I said before you have a scizor weakness, but also a Gyarados, Tyranitar and Salamence weakness. ( DD set's ) After one dragon dance Gyarados takes out most of your team because you lack any Rock/ electric attacks. Electric attacks have that added bonus of giving in free switch in's to lanturn, Jolteon and Electrivire but rock attacks hit so many pokemon for super effective damage that not having at least one leaves you wide open to a lot of potent threats . So I suggest you switch out either Azelf or Scizor for this guy. Gliscor @ leftovers 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe Jolly with Hyper cutter Earthquake Stone edge Roost Swords dance I know , It's standard as all hell. But it covers your Gyrados/Salamence weakness really well as he can take one out rage ( please note ONE ) after a Dragon dance and OHKO back with Stone edge, Outpace all non Scarf'd or agility lucario and OHKO with earthquake, Outpace the majority of electrivire and fire types in general and OHKO with earthquake. He provides a neat Ground and electric resist making the perfect switch in to the now popular Choice specs jolteon ( who can wreck havoc on a lot of your team after swampert is gone. ) Hyper cutter also makes him a decent switch in to Gyayardos and Salamence, He resists Tyranitars sandstream and can 2HKO back with earthquake, and if you manage to get a Swords dance in he can even take care of some of his counters trying to wall him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Storm Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 I hope your not referring to my rates as crappy, I try you know. And If I really need to defend my post by telling you that ice is weak to Steel and no ice pokemon aside from wallrein in hail with Substitute and protect can Take a CB bullet punch and not be OHKO'd or 2HKO'd without being able to do much back ( without Hidden power fire ). . . I think you may need to learn a bit more before posting a team here and getting a rate anyway.I wasn't talking about your rates.Anyways I have have been thinking about what can replace Swampert as I hate him now, I have narrowed it dwon to Mamoswine and Jirachi, Mamo as a lead has worked wonders for me but Jirachi sounds more appealing thanks to Choice Scarf, thoughts? I will give Gliscor a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomspot555 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I think you may need to learn a bit more before posting a team here and getting a rate anyway. Let the mods make that decision. SS has posted complete teams, in the proper format, with pics, with a through strategy for the team and individual Pokes. His teams are perfectly fine to be posted here, and I wish more would take his posts as an example of what should be posted here. Anyway, keep it up guys. It's been pretty good since the thread was re-opened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destati Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I sent you some stuff via PM already and I got your response (I really don't know why some people took it as a harsh rate). I use Choice Scarf Jirachi. Here's the thing with it: It will almost always lay down rocks. Its one of the few anti-leads that can do such a thing. Its only real threat is a Hippowdon's EQ. Whats even greater about it is that best case scenario you can perform an unexpected sweep. Also, by all means you can consider replacing U-turn for T-wave. Remember the butthurt generated by Togekiss's Paraflinch? Yeah. Jirachi gets the same thing except it has better resistances. T-wave doesn't work on ground pokemon anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enkidu Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Let the mods make that decision. SS has posted complete teams, in the proper format, with pics, with a through strategy for the team and individual Pokes. His teams are perfectly fine to be posted here, and I wish more would take his posts as an example of what should be posted here.Anyway, keep it up guys. It's been pretty good since the thread was re-opened. You totally took my line out of context, and answered it out of context too. I was talking specifically about what you said ( prior to my post ) in terms of Bullet punch scizor Ripping through standard hail teams and me having to clarify that Ice is weak to steel ( which in my opinion would just be babying someone who has no idea how to build a team ) in contrast to what you were calling "weak rates." Let me explain it with quotes. Scizor tears through Hail teams so thats a non issue, swampert needs roar to get rid of Walrein ( for hail teams ) rack up residual damage and phaze out Stat uppers like cursepert/curselax.Good offensive teams do not NEED Gyarados, what they need are multiple levitators, Steels or flying types to avoid Toxic spikes/Spikes AND ground attacks. Resistance to sandstorm makes steel types quite useful as well but being trapped by Magnezone sucks. On this team in particular Kingdra is the odd man out. He's not really adding much in terms of synergy and his lum berry has gone to waste if he's up against a breloom or a roserade. I can't give you a full rate right now, but those are just some things to think about. First off, apologies to SS for re-opening the thread even though he's offline and I couldn't ask him. But there ARE some crappy rates here, and it needs to be pointed out.If you are not knowledgeable of the competitive aspect of Pokemon, you should probably stick to lurking instead of posting. You can learn a lot by asking questions in the main Competitive Battling forum and reading the many, many threads there. This is still a fairly young forum, so I'll be lenient for now. But if I see repeated crap rates from the same people, action may be taken. I hope your not referring to my rates as crappy, I try you know. And If I really need to defend my post by telling you that ice is weak to Steel and no ice pokemon aside from wallrein in hail with Substitute and protect can Take a CB bullet punch and not be OHKO'd or 2HKO'd without being able to do much back ( without Hidden power fire ). . . I think you may need to learn a bit more before posting a team here and getting a rate anyway. <- It's obvious SS knows this, I was just talking about in general. Now maybe my comment makes more sense? Anywho, Choice scarf Jirachi is a great lead. It's great at crippling leads by either only letting them set up SR or get stuck into an attack letting someone with an immunity come in and set up. It's definitely worth a test if thats what your looking for. Mamoswine on the other hand is more offensive than most others and can outspeed and Kill heatran but it loses to Metagross/Jirachi/Swampert and sometimes infernape ( The CC/Fire blast + Mach punch/vacuum wave variants. ) Both are solid choices though and I've used both of them fairly well myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomspot555 Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 You totally took my line out of context, and answered it out of context too. Reading through your post now, I understand. But you gave no indication that it wasn't directed to SS specifically because well...it's his RMT, so of course (without a quote from someone that you're specifically responding to) I'm going to assume you're talking about his thread. As for weak rates, I don't think yours was one of them. But read through the first page. There are tons of crap rates that involve little to no justification in their posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencat Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Don't cause tensions to rise please. Just stop arguing everyone, rate and discuss Silent Storm's team. If you don't have anything else to say, don't post than. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Storm Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 I guess what it boils down to is resistances, Mamoswine has more weaknesses as well as having the same weakness as Jirachi while Jirachi has less weakness (2 I think) and is faster with Choice Scarf, I did some testing and Jirachi worked with and without Choice Scarf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enkidu Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Yep, you also get the added bonus of tricking a scarf onto something attacking you with earthquake/fireblast or whatever, and can them switch in something with a handy immunity/resist and begin to set up early on ( before SR is down ) which really gives you an advantage early game. Also you could opt for more speed and Ice punch in one of the slots, and if you don't need to trick the scarf it can function as a great revenge killer for things like DDmence/Choice scarf flygon/DDDragonite or whatever else. its your decision of speed vs Bulk though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Storm Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Made some changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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