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(please let this thread stay, or PM me so I can edit it.) This needs to be addressed:why do they keep making awesome pokemon and give them next-to-nothing, low as dirt stats? Game Freak always does this and they've now pulled it with practically every Pokemon in the Kalos region, under 5 of them are way stronger than the rest and will be seen more than anything else in wifi battles. Does anyone know someone in their group in person, seen an interview about their creation process or something? I know they don't care about tiers made by fan groups like Smogon but in Japan they play by their own tiers which are very similar to the official rules. I'm sure GF could find a way to divide it further, not just bunch good stuff like Garchomp and Heatran together with pathetic Pokemon like Corsolla and Cacturne. I'd love to use them but they're not even worth wasting Pokeballs for with the way GameFreak has their wifi battles set... And that's really the issue here. I see why they're 'weak', it's not that their stats are low... take every pokemon and average their base stats and even Maractus looks useable in comparison, but people tend to judge Pokemon's potential compared to the highest end of stats like Tyranitar, Garchomp, Lucario, Scizor, etc... Coincidentally these already strong Pokemon now have "Mega" evolutions. They care about the children but I'm sure not all children want to play with those Pokemon, when I was a little kid I liked using Pikachu against my friends team of legendary Pokemon. Perfect solution: GF should update, no fix their wifi play by making base stat based tiers, keep Pokemon with 500+ base stats out of the lower tiers. That would perfectly keep Scizor (500) and everything like it (Mega evos' etc...) away from weaker Pokemon like: Meowstic: weak pokemon- base stats add up to466 Ferrothorn: Highly used pokemon and you'd still be able to use it - base stats below 500 These are just off the top of my head, there's PLENTY of Pokemon with 500+ base stats. I suggest this because I know GF doesn't care about the existence of Smogon, this would be an uncomplicated, one-step solution that wouldn't possibly do poorly, only create a place when weaker Pokemon can battle fairly. Remember, GF has poor judgement and moves really slwoly. Only 2 generations ago we couldn't reuse TM's, if you wanted Earthquake you'd have to make a big decision on which Pokemon gets it. Only 1 generation ago, we didn't have a game where we could just turn on wifi and battle, we'd have to go on fansites like Smogon to find battles. Only the since last month have we had X & Y's improved , GF has been brainstorming for YEARS to make their games balanced. In gen 1 tehy didn't even care, you could destroy everything with Persian, Alakazam and Gengar. something like that would be a good move, not just throwing 80% of Pokemon under the bus. [The rest of this is just ranting] Game Freak knows themselves, they have secrets and private motives (some more obvious like giving the 3 gen 1 starters mega evo's to attract new and old customers) but they do look out for the portion of us that play Pokemon further than the storyline. I hope they realize that if it weren't for the wifi battles, Pokemon wouldn't even be a good game. The story, like CoD's story mode, is only there to present SOMETHING they can sell to you, the bulk of the game and the real complexities are in wifi battles. Since Smogon tiers are fictional to them, they should make an effort to fix their tiers. What I suggested earlier is perfect for their business style and demographic: a simple fix, not confusing at all, easy to implement and it would make the games much better quality. If they did that, I wouldn't be able to find anything to complain about as practically everything cruddy about Pokemon has been fixed with X & Y. If GF can do "sky battles" and "inverse battles" which probably took some good work to plan and create, are you sure they can't just add a "junior division" for '500 base stas and below' Pokemon to play on wifi? Are you opposed to the idea of GF making tiers/borderlines so their weaker Pokemon can still play in their metagame? Or do you believe that the current wifi battles are fair and don't need to make room for all Pokemon? I believe GF jsut doesn't realize what they're doing wrong yet or haven't put thought into it. it needs to be waved in front of their faces that adding official tiers will make Pokemon twice, maybe even 3 times as appealing to every fan.

[sprite]360[/sprite] Pokemon I wish to change: Wynaut Tier the Pokemon is currently in: Uber Tier I propose to move it to: UU/BL Reasons why I wish to move it: Well as all of you know, Wynaut is in the Uber Tier, it is self-explanatory why Wobuffet would be in Uber, but this little guy, why? I doubt many of you would oftenly see this guy around, they would probably use a Wobuffet not a Wynaut. Wynaut only has a base HP of 95, 48 SpDef and Def and only a minor speed of 23. Many of the pokemon will have the potential to wipe out this guy in one attack. And with a very high chance that the opponent would easily overspeed this pokemon. So what if it has Encore, Counter and Mirror Coat. It doesn't get the chance to use it! Even if the opponent is unable to 1HKO it, even if Wynaut uses Encore, the next turn it would attack it again and undoubtedly would beat Wynaut. I think that this little guy shouldn't belong to Ubers!

Which tier do you prefer to battle in? UU or OU? I personally prefer UU, just because I feel there is more of a challenge, many more variations within a team, and fewer "cheap" Pokemon than we all like to complain about within OU. In UU, you have fewer Pokemon that you need to designate a counter towards, which is obviously not the case in OU (Blissey, Scizor, Salamence, etc.). Your turn!

I feel that because Project Pokemon is it's own community, we should have our own tier list for Pokemon. However, we need peoples help, by gathering your opinions. Testing will be active on Shoddy Battle on the Project Pokemon server. This is the current list I have generated:

Branching this from the "main thread" so we can all argue and debate about the best names here. I'm assuming (hopefully not incorrectly) that we'll be going down the 4 tier path that has been mostly agreed upon so far. So, here is a smattering of ideas to hopefully get you guys going: Overpowered / High Class / Low Class / Underpowered Overpowered / High Class / Middle Class / Low Class Unlimited / Standard / Limited / Restricted S / A / B / C ranks Mythic / Normal / Medium / Low

Tier Discussion Rules: Welcome to the Tier Discussion forum. This forum is dedicated to discussing any changes our community feels the need to make from Smogon's Tiers, which are currently used as our standard. Changes should only be proposed with the following three tiers: OU, UU, and Uber. With that said, please don't post ridiculous changes, like asking for Kyogre to be moved down to OU, which isn't going to happen. Proposing a Change: If you feel that a pokemon in OU, UU, or Uber just isn't in the right place, feel free to post a topic about it. However, please use this format: Pokemon you wish to change: Tier the Pokemon is currently in: Tier you propose to move it to: Reasons why you wish to move it: Also, you MUST make your thread a Poll. You can do this by going into Additional Options and checking the box next to "Yes, post a poll with this thread." Your poll should have two options: 1. I agree with this change 2. I disagree with this change Since this board does not have much activity, I will be able to watch any threads that get created in here. The poll will be unofficial; it is just preliminary to see if there is some support for your idea. If an idea gets support, I will create an official thread and people will state arguments for and against it. Then, the community as a whole will vote on your change, and if it passes, the change will be made. All Other Threads: This forum doesn't need many other threads then proposing changes. However, if you want to discuss any aspects of the tiers, then feel free to do so. Thank you for reading, and have an excellent day! ~ Illithian

tell me a list of hacked pokemon that have been made. tell me their name, and what it does, in this format: name-what it does. example: wondertomb-spiritomb with wonder guard. the list so far: wondertomb-spiritomb with wonder guard ability. (from k41) aquatile- shiny sceptile with arceus's ability, aqua plate, and azumarill's moveset and stats.(from k41) levijolt-jolteon with levitate ability, it replaces its ground weakness with ground immunity.(from K41) instant kill weaville-weaville with no guard and all the auto 1-hit KO moves. (from k41) I will edit this post to add other submissions, lets do this!