Should Stealth Rock be Banned?

[Riolu Aura Sphere Now]

The two only pokemon that I can think of who stands against Rotom and can learn Rapid Spin is Smeargle by using Scketch and Armaldo by breeding, but setting up Scketch Rapid Spin would need a good support team to support Smeargle. That goes the same for Armaldo, you would need a good support team to cover Armaldo weeknesses against Ice Rotom, Fire Rotom and Water Rotom, but that is just my idea.

A Hazard Clause seems a good idea and it would bring the unwanted pokemon back to being wanted.

Edit: Sorry about reposting this again, I accidently deleted my post.

[OriginShadow]

I personally think that they should not be banned, because, while they do hit everything coming in,

the damage is not even like spikes, or gradually draining (possibly doing more each turn if there's 2 layers) like Toxic Spikes.

BUT, I do advocate an optional "Entry Hazard Clause". And again, many teams don't even use it. (I often don't).

But banning them outright would really make somethings virtually unstable without heavy losses. (at least I think)

[Sel]

I think banning SR is the same as saying "don't use strategy" or "I don't like it because its too hard to deal with"(which it's not). I've went up against plenty of SR users, and it's never been a serious problem for me. well enough trained pokemon teams shouldn't have to worry about it, rapid spin or not. so in terms of should we ban it? I think not.

[Shogun]

Stealth Rock is annoying, but for the ones weak to it in OU, it's our choice to use them. It also reduces Salamences and Gyarados's abusage.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Shogun

[Devil Apprentice]

It's probably already been said, but Rocks, like any other entry hazard, hail, or sandstorm, effectively destroys the use of the Focus Sash. Granted, it's an annoying item to be used, but Rocks aren't all that hard to get rid of. Any team can benefit from a Starmie or a Forretress, two of the best Rapid Spinners in the game. Once you take out that Rocker, all you have to do is Spin them away and you're good for the rest of the game. If, that is, their team is not entirely based on entry hazard and weather damage. If your team suffers greatly from Stealth Rock damage, I would suggest switching some of those Flying-Type Pokemon for something better. Perhaps a Steelix would be a nice change of pace.

tl;dr, only bad teams suffer a lot from Stealth Rock. No reason to ban it.

[Shogun]

I'm still confused about why Stealth Rock is questioned instead of Spikes or Toxic Spikes, which can be "unfair" even. Stealth Rock does make the game more challenging at least, and both parties can use it, this it should not be banned.

[ASuch]

The reason why I think is because that it's Rock type, so it uses the super effective against pokemon that would be super effective to it. Last I checked Spikes and etc. are normal type, so they don't get the super effective bonus.

[Ziz]

I'm still confused about why Stealth Rock is questioned instead of Spikes or Toxic Spikes, which can be "unfair" even. Stealth Rock does make the game more challenging at least, and both parties can use it, this it should not be banned.

Stealth Rock is the one questioned because both Spikes and Toxic Spikes can be avoided by simply the typing of the Pokemon. True, they can be "unfair" entry hazards, but Stealth Rock hits every Pokemon in the game. Both Spikes and Toxic Spikes can be avoided by Pokemon that either fly or levitate. Also Toxic Spikes can be completely absorbed and rendered useless if a Poison type is sent in. Stealth Rock only needs one turn to be used for full effectiveness while Spikes and Toxic Spikes, although useful without all those layers, aren't completely effective in one turn. I can see the reason to why Stealth Rock is questioned. Nevertheless, it shouldn't be banned at all.

Competitive play is all about strategy. You use what's available to you. Anyone can decide to incorporate Stealth Rock into their team so I don't see why it should be banned. Taken into factor the Pokemon who move ranks because of the 50% Health reduction...well that's just how the mechanics work. Take advantage of it or not...Stealth Rock is a utility. Use it or not, it's always going to be there. Needless to say...Rapid Spin solves all of your problems xP (not being serious of course but you know).

As for Rapid Spin being the only thing that can clear entry hazards on your side and it being a normal type which doesn't work against ghosts...well you have to incorporate that into your strategy as well. =P

On a random note I find the move Defog hilarious...your opponent can always use that on you in a merciful way.

[Sabeta]

Here is my Two Cents, I've been playing with people spamming Stealth Rocks since the very Beginning of Generation 4, and I honestly have to say, that only bad teams will lose to Stealth Rocks. I mean, if I'm using a team of Charizard, Yangmega, Articuno, Ninjask, and Lucario, Hell yeah my team is going to be hard as balls to play with. Everytime I switch my Pokemon pratically Faints. Except Lucario. I think that each Classification (Offense, Defense, Support) have their own set of moves that are "Over-Centralized" For Offense, it is Earthquake, it has "Centralized" the game to Pokemon that Levitate, some pokemon like Flygon wouldn't even be OU without it, due to middling Stats. Coming in Second Place is probably Stone Edge. For Defense, Protect wins hands down, and Substitute comes in second easily. For Support, it is Stealth Rocks, with Wish being a close second. The point is, should all of these moves be banned just because they are on nearly EVERY TEAM? No, of course not, it is never the move that is broken (Well except Dragon Type Moves ~coughdracometoeroutrage~), It is the pokemon using it.

Yes, Stealth Rocks hurts nearly all Pokemon. Yes, it Cripples some Pokemon (Yanmega and Ninjask come to mind). But there are plenty of Pokemon out there who resist Rocks, such as Metagross, Jirachi, Lucario. A truly good Competitive team keeps Stealth Rocks in mind, and makes sure that they don't have too many weaknesses to it, and will typically pack a Spinner as well. If they have a Spin Blocker, Kill it, then Spin. Stealth Rocks is nothing to Ban, yes it's powerful, but so is Tyranitar, and nobody's saying we should ban him.

As for the Clause, I for one would never play it, then it just becomes a straight Beat 'em up. If you don't have to worry about entry Hazards, then you can put as many Scarfs and Sashes as you would like. (Lucario, to name one)

There's my two cents, anyway.

[kingphilip42]

You know a move is overpowered when it can take a Ho-Oh down to half health instantly. I do use stealth rock, but that is only because I know that my opponent will use it, so I'm evening the playing field.

[randomspot555]

You know a move is overpowered when it can take a Ho-Oh down to half health instantly. I do use stealth rock, but that is only because I know that my opponent will use it, so I'm evening the playing field.

Ho-Oh has 106/90/154 as it's defensive base stats. It's bulky enough to survive and can recover with Roost. The problem with other 50% damage Pokemon is that their defensive stats are usually average, at best.

[Gin]

Ho-Oh has 106/90/154 as it's defensive base stats. It's bulky enough to survive and can recover with Roost. The problem with other 50% damage Pokemon is that their defensive stats are usually average, at best.

To tell you the truth, It can't really survive. It being in the ubers metagame means it'll be hit with fast, superpowered thunders that will kill it unless it has Sun up (Which all players using Ho-oh SHOULD do, anyway). Also, it will have to watch out for monster Kyogres coming in with its own thunder, and it's own ability ensuring 100% hits. Really, though, it hitting Ho-oh is NOT what makes it overpowered.

I think I've reached my final verdict, and that is that we should NOT take it out. Sure, it affects the metagame. Most things do. We can't just take out Rapid Spin because in one move, it can clear out more than 6 turns of effort. An anti stealth rock, or simply anti entry hazard clause is cool, but we should NOT remove it from the standard game. From now on, unless you have something new to say, don't post in this thread. It's been overdiscussed :\

[Forte Master X9]

No. There's Rapid Spin for beginners.

Anyways Ho-oh in the 5th generation gets Regeneration. Even without that, there's going to be less SR with the TM gone.

[0660]

I believe that Moltres is the same way... just to lesser effect.

[dorramide7]

I quite frankly am starting to like Stealth Rock. Although am such as i am no longer a strategist i start to use it as of late. Be it on the first or at longest 5-th or 6-th turn.

I agree that Stealth Rock is a little too much. It affects so many PKMN, and causes the lack of use of many PKMN. In my opinion it kind of ruins the over all experience since it shrinks the amount of PKMN people use and such only the same PKMN are used over and over taking away the huge variety the game has. It is a touchy subject to some to think of it as over powered/banning it. I feel it wouldn't hurt to ban it more then keep it, at least then there will be a lot more PKMN used which I think is always better. I would have to concur.

[Sabeta]

Everyone keeps saying that there's going to be less Stealth Rocks now that the TM is gone. Guess what, we can migrate. Some Pokémon don't need their Dream World abilities either. So yeah, it's not going anywhere.

As for weather or not it should be banned, no it should not. All you need is Spin support, and your good to go. If you feel your opponent has a spin blocker, attack with your spinner and watch it fall.

[Splittah]

Before people start trashing my post, I did not read all of the posts

I don't think it should be banned, however I DO think it should be made a clause. So Stealth Rock/those type of moves clause. Yeah.

[youngbey]

its biggest impact is the reduction of use of everything that is 4x weak to rock

[randomspot555]

Since Gen 4 is basically dead as far as further evolution of the metagame goes, I'm going to close this.