The Legality Question/Check Thread

[Farfetchd]

This may be a strange question, but it does concern legality:

 

If I use RTC while emulating a 3rd  generation game on PC, does the game generate random seeds that a normal retail cartride would while having an active battery? I know that, by default, the game treats the whole thing as dead battery, which IS the same as cartride with dead battery. But I was wondering if enabling RTC in options for Emus creates normal, legitimate battery seeds? 

 

So, for example: If I use RunAsDate to run my VBA and then set the date to 01.01.2000 (which I believe is the date the cartridge batteries started from, on the original Ruby and Saphire releases), is the starting seed I get when I boot up my game and create a new save the same that those really old games used to?

 

I feel like it has to, and that this question is stupid, but I'm very finnicky about legality so I wanna make sure.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Farfetchd

[Farfetchd]

I have a question regarding how precise and in-depth the data stored in Pokemon files is throughout generations:

 

If I transfer a Pokemon through Pal Park, it gets the day as a met date on which it was transferred, as gen 3 didn't have met dates. If I then transfer it from Gen 4 to Gen 5 through the Pokemon Transporter, it does the same, overwriting the old met date.

 

Is that old met date still findable in the Pokemon file somewhere? Even if it's only theoretically possible, like by reading the hex files or trashbytes or whatever. Could I see the date of a Pokemon being transfered from Gen 3 to Gen 4 in a Gen 5+ generation, if I had access to the Pokemon file? Or is it WHOLLY overwritten?

[Poke J]

11 minutes ago, Farfetchd said:

I have a question regarding how precise and in-depth the data stored in Pokemon files is throughout generations:

 

If I transfer a Pokemon through Pal Park, it gets the day as a met date on which it was transferred, as gen 3 didn't have met dates. If I then transfer it from Gen 4 to Gen 5 through the Pokemon Transporter, it does the same, overwriting the old met date.

 

Is that old met date still findable in the Pokemon file somewhere? Even if it's only theoretically possible, like by reading the hex files or trashbytes or whatever. Could I see the date of a Pokemon being transfered from Gen 3 to Gen 4 in a Gen 5+ generation, if I had access to the Pokemon file? Or is it WHOLLY overwritten?

All of the met data is discarded and replaced during transfer to gen 5 so no it isn't stored anywhere in the Pokémon data. The only met data that doesn't get overwritten from gen 4 to 5 is when and how the egg was obtained if the Pokémon hatched from an egg.

[Farfetchd]

1 minute ago, Poke J said:

All of the met data is discarded and replaced during transfer to gen 5 so no it isn't stored anywhere in the Pokémon data. The only met data that doesn't get overwritten from gen 4 to 5 is when and how the egg was obtained if the Pokémon hatched from an egg.

Thank you! I didn't really expect an answer for this very specific question. Does the Gen 5 aquisition data remain in Generation 8? I don't have access to Switch saves, so I can't check myself, but I remember the old Gen 5 Poke transporter date was always in the files even in Gen 6/7.

[Poke J]

Gen 5 met data is still present in gen 8.

[Farfetchd]

I have a quick question about injected Wonder Cards for Gen 5 and 6.

If I download the events from this site's gallery, it will give the Pokemon a met data that matches the one on the wonder card, which is, well, part of the wonder card. It won't be affected by my DS's system clock. But what I'm curious about: Does my system date/clock affect the mon's RNG? Like, say I download a Giratina from Gen 5 that's set to 01.01.2013. My DS is set to 12.02.2013 instead; will the Pokemon's nature and IV be generated off of my system's settings or will it have a specific seed attached to it that the system generated when originally receiving the wondercard?

[Poke J]

2 hours ago, Farfetchd said:

I have a quick question about injected Wonder Cards for Gen 5 and 6.

If I download the events from this site's gallery, it will give the Pokemon a met data that matches the one on the wonder card, which is, well, part of the wonder card. It won't be affected by my DS's system clock. But what I'm curious about: Does my system date/clock affect the mon's RNG? Like, say I download a Giratina from Gen 5 that's set to 01.01.2013. My DS is set to 12.02.2013 instead; will the Pokemon's nature and IV be generated off of my system's settings or will it have a specific seed attached to it that the system generated when originally receiving the wondercard?

In super simplified terms the RNG is based on when you launch the game. You can easily manipulate the RNG in gen 5, but it's nearly impossible to manipulate the RNG in gen 6 without additional software running. So to answer your questions:

1) Yes, your system date and clock affects the RNG.

2) The IVs and nature of the Pokémon will be generated off of your system settings (when you launch the game) and not when the Wonder Card was received.

[Farfetchd]

2 hours ago, Poke J said:

In super simplified terms the RNG is based on when you launch the game. You can easily manipulate the RNG in gen 5, but it's nearly impossible to manipulate the RNG in gen 6 without additional software running. So to answer your questions:

1) Yes, your system date and clock affects the RNG.

2) The IVs and nature of the Pokémon will be generated off of your system settings (when you launch the game) and not when the Wonder Card was received.

Oh yeah, I know how RNG manip generally works, I was moreso curious if the "locked" date you get with the event downloads would also lock the IVs/Nature because of the Pokemon having some kind of internal date.

 

I guess I'll just edit the summary to have the correct date then, so they correspond to the correct seed?

[Farfetchd]

When downloading from the event gallery, should you choose the region your DS is set to or the language of the game?

Like, say I'm French. Do I get French events from WiFi events or does my game get English/American events if my game is set to English?

[Wingadinga]

Hello. 

 

A while ago I read about how ribbons affect the framedata of Pokemon. I assume this is in reference to hex code or hex data or the file's bits or something like this, I'm not particularly educated on computer/file stuff. I was wondering if transferring Pokemon throughout generations "fixes" potential mismatches there. 

 

Say, I put all the Gen 3 ribbons on a Pokemon. I would assume its pkmn.file is now not entirely correct because it didn't go through the proper way of obtaining the ribbons. If I now transfer it to Gen 4, is it fixed? Likewise, same applies to Gen 4 ribbons and transferring it to Gen 5.

[ZST]

Hey guys I recall PKHex used to display the origin Seed of a Pokémon in a tab but now I can only see it when I hover over my Pokémon with the cursor

im currently playing on Platinum save file

Is there a way to see the seed? Also, IIRC, it was read-only. Can origin seeds be edited nowadays?

[theSLAYER]

17 minutes ago, ZST said:

Hey guys I recall PKHex used to display the origin Seed of a Pokémon in a tab but now I can only see it when I hover over my Pokémon with the cursor

im currently playing on Platinum save file

Is there a way to see the seed? Also, IIRC, it was read-only. Can origin seeds be edited nowadays?

Origin seed is reverse calculated based from a bunch of factors relating to RNG.

As such, you can't just "modify origin seed" directly. And to answer to your nowadays portion, that isn't accurate. As far as I can tell, one has never been able to edit it directly.


You wanna change your origin seed, you can do so indirectly: change every other stat relating to that chain of RNG frames [stats the can be reverse calculated to determine the PID Method used]. (PID, IVs etc)

Also, just a neat bit of info for ya: hovering isn't the only way to see origin seed. You can control click on the (!); origin seed is in the full legality report.

[ZST]

10 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

Origin seed is reverse calculated based from a bunch of factors relating to RNG.

As such, you can't just "modify origin seed" directly. And to answer to your nowadays portion, that isn't accurate. As far as I can tell, one has never been able to edit it directly.


You wanna change your origin seed, you can do so indirectly: change every other stat relating to that chain of RNG frames. (PID, IVs etc)

Also, just a neat bit of info for ya: hovering isn't the only way to see origin seed. You can control click on the (!); origin seed is in the full legality report.

Thank you. So, if I’m understanding correctly it’s possible to change origin seeds, but you’d have to sort of reverse engineer it? 
 

edit: yeah, upon re-reading that clearly seems to be your intent 

Edited June 11, 2021 by ZST

[theSLAYER]

Just now, ZST said:

Thank you. So, if I’m understanding correctly it’s possible to change origin seeds, but you’d have to sort of reverse engineer it? 

At the first place our origin seeds are reverse engineered based on the stats on the mon. It's not like the origin seed data is written on the mon.

I have no idea why you're trying to 'edit' origin seeds.

However, if you search for a particular set of stats, ability, encounter etc on Pokefinder,
origin seed would be shown. (Technically, the PID and IVs generated are from that resulting origin seed).

Mind telling me what you wanna accomplish with origin seed editing?

[ZST]

11 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

At the first place our origin seeds are reverse engineered based on the stats on the mon. It's not like the origin seed data is written on the mon.

I have no idea why you're trying to 'edit' origin seeds.

However, if you search for a particular set of stats, ability, encounter etc on Pokefinder,
origin seed would be shown. (Technically, the PID and IVs generated are from that resulting origin seed).

Mind telling me what you wanna accomplish with origin seed editing?

I didn’t know that part. I was just falling down the rabbit hole of RNG abuse, but eventually tapped out due to how cumbersome it is. 
 

I checked over an old save file and noticed that my origin seeds were not matching up with the date of capture when I plugged it into RNGReporter Seed to Time finder. 

[theSLAYER]

18 minutes ago, ZST said:

I didn’t know that part. I was just falling down the rabbit hole of RNG abuse, but eventually tapped out due to how cumbersome it is. 
 

I checked over an old save file and noticed that my origin seeds were not matching up with the date of capture when I plugged it into RNGReporter Seed to Time finder. 

I don't think the whole Seed to Time thing matters.

You could always encounter the mon, and sit there and wait for the date to change.

Furthermore, I've tried to find the time on a Buneary I caught for sure (430f119b caught on 25/05/2007), and it wouldn't show me the correct date on seed to time.
Found some a bunch of mons with "invalid seeds" on an older save of mine, even tho they were species that I definitely couldn't be bothered to hack them.

Plus, there's always a chance they're found at a different seed, just that PKHeX shows the first seed calculated that matches that set of stats.


The whole seed to time thing probably only really matters if you're actually RNGing on the spot.

[ZST]

7 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

I don't think the whole Seed to Time thing matters.

You could always encounter the mon, and sit there and wait for the date to increase.

Furthermore, I've tried to find the time on a Buneary I caught for sure (430f119b caught on 25/05/2007), and it wouldn't show me the correct date too.
Found some a bunch of mons with "invalid seeds" on an older save of mine, even tho they were species that I definitely couldn't be bothered to hack them.

Plus, there's always a chance they're found at a different seed, just that PKHeX shows the first seed calculated that matches stats.

Keep in mind, that is just one of MANY steps in RNG manipulation, that is why I am not too worried now that you explained how Seeds are generated. 
 

That’s like step 3 in a long process. 

[theSLAYER]

4 minutes ago, ZST said:

Keep in mind, that is just one of MANY steps in RNG manipulation, that is why I am not too worried now that you explained how Seeds are generated. 
 

That’s like step 3 in a long process. 

I mean reverse finding a seed is somewhat pointless, cause that set of stats are likely associated with many seeds (cause the PRNG eventually loops).

As I added (but you missed it), the whole seed to time thing probably only really matters if you're actually RNGing on the spot.
It's probably important if you can find out what seed you're on right now, and manipulate that seed to land on a wanted frame (which people are more capable of counting frames as opposed to the 'invisible' frames, hence seed to time).

 

In any case, I'm glad we worked through why you didn't need to change origin seed.
 

[FinalPhase]

https://projectpokemon.org/home/files/file/4613-international-shiny-zamazenta/

Can I check if these are legal? Not sure where else can I check because PKHeX 20211001 is showing them as illegal

[theSLAYER]

22 minutes ago, FinalPhase said:

https://projectpokemon.org/home/files/file/4613-international-shiny-zamazenta/

Can I check if these are legal? Not sure where else can I check because PKHeX 20211001 is showing them as illegal

 

[drakanashura]

I noticed that certain moves that pokemon can learn from TMs, like Dazzling Gleam and Scald both result in illegal pokemon. Is this a bug or am I missing something? 

[theSLAYER]

11 hours ago, drakanashura said:

I noticed that certain moves that pokemon can learn from TMs, like Dazzling Gleam and Scald both result in illegal pokemon. Is this a bug or am I missing something? 

Could you give examples? Provide files?

wouldnt know what you’re talking about otherwise.

[drakanashura]

Makes sense o7. This Manaphy, for example, is illegal because it knows Scald, which is in it's BDSP moveset, A few other similar cases include Mew with Dazzling Gleam and Gliscor with Toxic.

472 ★ - Gliscor - 4152DAFE1C5A.pb8 151 - Mew - 40883AE1E29F.pb8 490 - Manaphy - B0D93AE1E29F.pb8

[drakanashura]

Oh. There was already a hotfix on the second day XD. It fixes this exact bug.

[Poulpito]

Hello, I want like to know how to use invalid move in BDSP game ?
I play on emulator, I don't go online.

So I want like to use move that pkmn don't learn usually.

That is possible ? Because in the game a msgbox appears and says "can't use this move".

Thanks !