Best Wall, your opinions?

[Lugiamaster]

Hello everyone, how are you all?

I am here to ask you a question about walls

What Pokemon would you say is the ultimate wall?

I've asked a dousen people and most of them have said Arceus for the following reasons

1. It can learn Recover, Cosmic Power and Seismic Toss

2. It has decend def and sp.def

3. Its the only pokemon which you can control its type

But I wanna know what you guys think

[Illithian]

The best wall in the game is undoubtedly Lugia, with fine speed, incredible defenses, and good typing. He learns Roost, Whirlwind, Toxic, Calm Mind, and Trick, allowing it to run virtually any wall set you can think of.

While Arceus can work as a wall, its stupid. Arceus has base 120 speed and dual base 120 attacking stats, along with an immense movepool and the ability to get any STAB in the game, and you're telling me it should run a wall?

[wraith89]

While Arceus can work as a wall, its stupid. Arceus has base 120 speed and dual base 120 attacking stats, along with an immense movepool and the ability to get any STAB in the game, and you're telling me it should run a wall?

I play defensively... so I don't see why not. 120/120/120 defenses... ginormous movepool, ability to change into any type... sounds good to me.

You know, I use Mewtwo as a physical wall, because it IS possible. It can take down extremekiller Arceus one on one and cause a lot of trouble. But... Mewtwo has 154 SpA and 130 Speed! Are you crazy?? That doesn't mean I couldn't, right? I know that is not its best capabilities but has proven useful nevertheless. Some people hated that thing.

And yes, my Moltres is also a wall too (most people on Shoddy know about my Moltres). 125 SpA/90 Speed... too good to pass by? You really shouldn't tell people what they should do or what they shouldn't do with Pokemon. I do not believe in standard sets.

But I will agree with Illithian. The best overall wall there is is Lugia, no contest (Arceus aside, but who cares about that cheap llama?). Of course, if you want an evil special wall... Blissey is #1... if you are a special attacker it WILL wall you for eternity. As for physical defense... I am not sure... but Skarmory/Forretress/Steelix and a couple of others are there for consideration (Skarmory more so than the other two due to Roost).

[Gin]

Yup, Lugia for the win. For Def, Hippowdon is also pretty good. Same with Gliscor

[wraith89]

Yup, Lugia for the win. For Def, Hippowdon is also pretty good. Same with Gliscor

Ah yes... Hippo as a wall... that thing survives physical hits like no tomorrow and Slacks Off damage as well.

[Arandomproduction1]

What about Rock Arceus in Sandstorm? It would be crazy. But now with HG/SS Belly Drum Marowak, UU Trick Room is pretty crazy too.

[wraith89]

What about Rock Arceus in Sandstorm? It would be crazy. But now with HG/SS Belly Drum Marowak, UU Trick Room is pretty crazy too.

Typing isn't so great in Ubers, and anyone can bring Kyogre in to change the weather to rain, but while the sand is going, I suppose... and that would be crazy against other stuff.

Yeah, Belly Drum Marowak... o_o

Azumarill will still destroy it though (revenge killing though).

[cinch.ONE]

Offensive Wall

Umbreon@BrightPowder

Calm

252HP/252Sp.Def/4Spe

- Yawn

- Protect

- Moonlight/Hyper beam

- Nightmare

My own personal offensive creation, given that nintendo were not too kind to umbreon both stat and movepool wise. The stacked EVs in Sp.Def and HP make it a massive tank, capable of taking huge hits. Yawn first and then protect, thereby allowing the effects of yawn to take place. With the enemy successfully incapacitated, nightmare 1/4 of their hp away each turn. On top of this, you could opt for hyper beam, dealing further punishment, OR moonlight to replinish heath. This is crucial if you intend on sweeping a vast majority of the opposing teams pokes.

Enjoy,

Ben

[Arandomproduction1]

Offensive Wall

Umbreon@BrightPowder

Calm

252HP/252Sp.Def/4Spe

- Yawn

- Protect

- Moonlight/Hyper beam

- Nightmare

My own personal offensive creation, given that nintendo were not too kind to umbreon both stat and movepool wise. The stacked EVs in Sp.Def and HP make it a massive tank, capable of taking huge hits. Yawn first and then protect, thereby allowing the effects of yawn to take place. With the enemy successfully incapacitated, nightmare 1/4 of their hp away each turn. On top of this, you could opt for hyper beam, dealing further punishment, OR moonlight to replinish heath. This is crucial if you intend on sweeping a vast majority of the opposing teams pokes.

Enjoy,

Ben

First off, banned item for standard rules, second off how is that offensive? Umbreon has better choices for attacks then Hyperbeam, it has Payback (Mostly gonna go second 50 x 2x 1.5 = 150, same power as Hyperbeam, except with no drawback and more PP. And how does Nightmare fit in there? It has no sleeping move. And Protect is for Wish Umbreon, which yours isn't. This set seems more like an Umbreon

Umbreon@Leftovers

Sassy

252 HP/ 200 Atk/ 56 SpDef

IV's: 0 Speed

Curse

Payback

Wish

Baton Pass/ Protect.

[wraith89]

First off, banned item for standard rules, second off how is that offensive? Umbreon has better choices for attacks then Hyperbeam, it has Payback (Mostly gonna go second 50 x 2x 1.5 = 150, same power as Hyperbeam, except with no drawback and more PP. And how does Nightmare fit in there? It has no sleeping move. And Protect is for Wish Umbreon, which yours isn't. This set seems more like an Umbreon

Umbreon@Leftovers

Sassy

252 HP/ 200 Atk/ 56 SpDef

IV's: 0 Speed

Curse

Payback

Wish

Baton Pass/ Protect.

Brightpowder is banned under standard rules? Hax item clause is not even a standard rule... and in my opinion, it is quite ridiculous. Yes, because of my luck, every time the other person has a Brightpowder, I ALWAYS miss, but that is besides the point... still ridiculous.

I like the Mean Look Toxic stalling Moonlight or Wish/Protect version... it is rather nasty. Unfortunately, Umbreon's weakness to Bug and Fighting does it more harm than the defensive stats do to it as a wall. =(

Nice Payback set... although I would run a bit more special defense on Umbreon with Curse.

[Doc]

CurseLax makes a solid wall, ok theres easy ways of taking it down but if used at the right time he can mess with other players tactics, this thread make me think of bastiodon, stupid gamefreak, if bastiodon had a higher base hp stat and more moves he could have been great, i still try out various move sets on it but lets face it, bastiodon sucks.

I like using jirachi as a wall too.

[randomspot555]

The problem with Curselax is, depending on the set, it can miss out on a lot of coverage. Especially if it utilizes Rest, with only two attacks, it's not uncommon for Normal/Ground (Gengar, Mismagius, Shedinja all being immune). It can also easily be Roared away, or be set up bait for Breloom.

Don't get me wrong, it can TAKE HITS. But it can't wall.

Blissey can wall special attacks like no tomorrow, and apparently so can Lugia. But there's simply no equivalent wall like Blissey, for the physical attacks. Skarmory comes close, getting Roost to recover and immune to ground attacks, but it's still 2hkoed by many of the common STAB Close Combat users.

Tyranitar is in a similar situation to Snorlax. It needs to set up to take a lot of hits. I love my Curse-Tar. I dump a bunch into HP and Sp Def, then sand storm boosts sp Def even higher. Sub up, Curse 1-2 times, and it's so incredible.

BUT Tyranitar's typing gives it...what, 5 weaknesses? And it's not something I can play in the early game because there's only two attacks.

[Doc]

t-tar is another poke i dont really use, i know hes got some good stats and moves but whenever i use him (various sets) he always seems to get owned.

its funny really cause when i fight him, he owns me.... tragic.

obviously blissey is the ultimate special wall but shes another 1 i have trouble using properly, i guess people are just waiting for you to use blissey so they can counter.

i think shuckle should get a mention here, if trick room is up, send him out against a poke that will have to switch (not many), power trick on the switch and then he becomes deadly, ok hes pretty much gonna get owned but there are times when he can sweep, hes not 4x weak to any attacks and is only 2x weak to 3 (rock, steel, water) he resists normal and poison.

i like shuckle, shame his base hp higher though.

[randomspot555]

Power Trick Shuckle is one of the worst ideas. It means now you have pitiful defense instead of pitiful attack.

Not to mention it requires a ton of set-up.

1. Pokemon to use Trick Room.

2. Switch in Shuckle

3. Force a switch (and trust me, not many Pokemon are going to think "oh shit, it's Shuckle!").

4. Use Power Trick

5. ???? You're probably fainted by now anyway.

Shucke in a sand storm can take a bunch of hits from both spectrums, can Toxic Stall, Knock Off, but it does take 25%HP loss from SR.

[cinch.ONE]

First off, banned item for standard rules, second off how is that offensive? Umbreon has better choices for attacks then Hyperbeam, it has Payback (Mostly gonna go second 50 x 2x 1.5 = 150, same power as Hyperbeam, except with no drawback and more PP. And how does Nightmare fit in there? It has no sleeping move. And Protect is for Wish Umbreon, which yours isn't. This set seems more like an Umbreon

Umbreon@Leftovers

Sassy

252 HP/ 200 Atk/ 56 SpDef

IV's: 0 Speed

Curse

Payback

Wish

Baton Pass/ Protect.

yawn puts them to sleep at the end the following move....... thus allowing nightmare. Obviously then given umbreons poor speed, protect negates any damage taken before yawn comes into effect. payback is a pathetic idea, given the poor attack stats. a better idea would be dark pulse.

[Jacob Is Legend]

In terms of special walling, I would have to go with Cresselia.

120/120/130 base defenses and the ability to boost is is just scarey.

When it comes to physical walling, I would have to go with Umbreon. Good solid base defenses and HP, and a wonderful movepool to stall out most threats.:bidoof:

[randomspot555]

In terms of special walling, I would have to go with Cresselia.

120/120/130 base defenses and the ability to boost is is just scarey.

Blissey beats it in special walling, no contest. Blissey has better HP and Sp Def base stats, a much more reliable recovery (Wish or Softboiled), better typing (only one weakness), and a better ability (gets rid of status upon switching out).

As a sweeper that can also take a hit or two, that's what Cress is suited for. A very wide offensive move pool and good defenses. But to wall? Blissey wins, hands down.

[Doc]

you know your stuff, btw i dont use that shuckle i was just throwing ideas out there.

i wish blissey was uber so people would stop using her so much, if you ask me, the fact that wynaut is uber and blissey isnt is just insane. blissey just makes it almost completely pointless to use any other special wall (isnt that over centalising the game, or what ever you call it, think chomp ban)

other strange walls i like to experiment with, regardless of actual usefulness are:

forretress

magcargo

mantine

porygon 2 (in my opinion, the best pory)

miltank

aggron

swalot

wailord

altaria

bastiodon

spiritomb

im well aware that some of those guys are lame, but i dont battle much and i like to mix things up a bit.

swalot, as with a few of these, is just for giggles cause i love it when i manage to use amnesia and acid armour with swalot and then try to toxic stall the other guy, so satisfying when it works :biggrin:

[Varna]

i wish blissey was uber so people would stop using her so much, if you ask me, the fact that wynaut is uber and blissey isnt is just insane. blissey just makes it almost completely pointless to use any other special wall (isnt that over centalising the game, or what ever you call it, think chomp ban)

Welcome to the fallacy of tiers in a game like this. When you ban one thing, something else WILL take its place. That's just how it works.

[wraith89]

The thing is... Blissey has an Achilles' heel, unlike something like Lugia, which walls stuff on both sides of the spectrum, even taking Groudon's Stone Edges as if they were Tackles. Blissey will destroy most Special based attackers (although stuff like Gengar can get around it with its other options) but will inevitably lose to common physical attackers like Lucario or Heracross. That's not to say Blissey is not useful... but I see a lot of Blisseys in ubers (mainly because of the prevalence of special attackers).

As for the other Pokemon you have mentioned:

Forretress: Amazing physical wall, even more beefier than Skarmory in some respects. Can Spike/Toxic Spike/Stealth Rock and spin away hazards... and is immune to Toxic Spikes as well. STAB Gyro Ball hurts a lot... even to stuff like Gyarados. Once Forry is done with its job, it can go BOOM with Explosion. However it has no reliable recovery move and is absolutely destroyed by a fire attack... which is its Achilles's Heel. It also goes down relatively quickly from special attacks such as STAB Surfs or Magnezones, the latter which it has no way of getting around save hitting it with Earthquake on the switch or holding Shed Shell to escape. For the walling part, Skarmory does it better because of Roost, but Forry is not bad at all. Very useful and shows its face in Ubers as well.

Magcargo: 4x weak to Ground and Water... =(

Used to work in NU... until Smogon said stuff like Tauros and Entei can come in to crash the party down in NU >.>

Mantine: Mantine is the polar opposite of Skarmory in terms of base stats, so you can expect it to do its special walling job well, right? 4x Electric weak and SR weakness says no... what a shame. I really love this thing =(

Porygon 2 (in my opinion, the best pory): Trace is very useful, can come into Gyarados and Salamence and destroy them... but as for walling, it is all right, but that Fighting weakness is evil and it does go down fairly quickly from one.

Miltank: Miltank is good, but usually Snorlax does its job better... although the cow has Milk Drink and Heal Bell... meaning it can be a hybrid of Snorlax + Blissey with those moves... not to mention Scrappy hits Ghosts, but it is not better than the other two in their jobs. Curse Miltank is just evil though... takes physical and special hits like there is no tomorrow.

Aggron: 4x weakness to Fighting and Ground... that's BAD, especially if they are the two most COMMON types of attacks to be found. STAB Surfs also OHKO it usually. But still, that 180 Defense makes Skarmory cry. Now with HGSS, Aggron can utilize the evil Rock Polish + Head Smash set... which comes with the bonus of no recoil, which is rather nasty. Yeah, Aggron is better off attacking, not defending, despite what its base stats say. However, if you can try a Focus Sash + Metal Burst combo...

Swalot: It's okay, but not too spectacular... and it is EQ weak. I like Pain Split + Yawn + Encore Swalot though... very annoying >

Wailord: Despite that HUGE HP, those base 40 defenses make it rather frail. In fact, I was quite surprised to see it get 2HKOd by many things.

Altaria: 4x weak to Ice... like most dragons, but it is very respectable in the lower tiers. Unfortunately, Dragonite does its defensive dragon job better, although Altaria has slightly more special defense and Natural Cure, but Dragonite's overall defenses and Heal Bell is usually better... but Altaria's Featherdance is worth considering.

Bastiodon: Another 4x weakness to Fighting + Ground. Seriously, what made Gamefreak think Rock/Steel is the best defensive typing? In fact, that weakness is so bad, most carry Focus Sash just to survive and hit back with Metal Burst... but its HP is fairly low. The only decent Rock/Steel nowadays is Probopass, but it does not get Metal Burst.

Spiritomb: Spiritomb is actually good because of no weaknesses and respectable defenses, but do not expect it to wall stuff ALL day.

[bear831]

I use Lugia a lot on my uber teams because of his stats, I just prefer him to blissey.

[Amerikahyou]

of all jobs on a team.bliss does her's the best.soft boil just annoys to no end.Suicune is also good another good one.sleep talk sets can ruin someones day if their not prepared

[Scwib]

Definitely not the BEST walls, but my favorite UU walls are Weezing and Ludicolo.

Once again, I know they are nowhere near the BEST walls.

I just like them a lot.

[memjee]

The best wall is Drugodactyl

White Herb+Curse+Sandstorm, it's almost impossible to take down.

Only thing I don't like about it is it's one of those trashy overused sets.

[Icyman28]

Depends on tier, to be honest.

Uber: Lugia, without a doubt. 106 / 130 / 154 is disgustingly difficult to take down, especially when it can remove its weaknesses to Rock, Ice, and Electric through Roost. It often does this before the opponent attacks as well, with its excellent base 110 speed. If you want, you can use a boosting tank set with CM, and it can always phaze with Whirlwind. It wins over Giratina because of the simple fact that it isn't weak to as many common attack types in Ubers. Arceus, while it does have higher HP, has lower defenses and must be EVed and typed according to what you want it to wall. Moreover, its inability to use Leftovers (unless its normal type, which is not good for walling), hinders its ability to wall.

OU: Suicune, hands down. While it may seem outclassed by Cresselia, with her monstrous 120 / 120 / 130 stats, the key lies in Suicune's other stats and typing. Water is an excellent type, both offensively and defensively, which allows Suicune to have only 2 weaknesses (both of which are typically special). It can easily wall and even sweep with its CroCune set, or just choose ResTalk + 2 attacks to counter particular threats. Cresselia, despite higher stats, is worse for several reasons. Moonlight isn't all its cracked up to be, especially in today's sand-based metagame. Its weakness to Dark means that it is unable to do much against the omnipresent users of Pursuit. Finally, Cresselia must rely on status and other disruptive moves to wall - its much lower special attack renders its attacks ineffective unless super effective, meaning that it normally just sits there taking hits until the opponent can finally work around it.