Choice...?

[ZMaster]

Aren't Choice Items a lil' advantageous over many teams?

I battled my friend, but he didn't tell me he had all his Pokémon hold choice items, and I ended up losing w/o doing anything, besides my Arcanine, which used Extremespeed. I was able to take them out slowly, but in the end, the scarf ones just obliterated my team.

[Eon-Rider]

Yes, they are a little unfair but if you have a whole team of sweepers (without Choice items) up against one using them, of course you're going to get obliterated. You can counter Choice items using different kinds of Pokemon.

[randomspot555]

There's nothing unfair about them when the same items are available to you.

[ZMaster]

So, basically, I should just give Choice Scarfs to all of my Party, and just go berserk? <_<

[Silent Storm]

Go right ahead, I will then predict with ease, set up one turn and them sweep your team.

If you lost to a team with all choice pokemon then it is your fault, not the items.

[ZMaster]

Go right ahead, I will then predict with ease, set up one turn and them sweep your team.

If you lost to a team with all choice pokemon then it is your fault, not the items.

Gee, thanks for the support. Real nice to know there are such nice people.

[Silent Storm]

Thanks.

Sorry but it is your fault, choice items are risky business anyways, using a full team of choice items would open you up to set up sweepers that only need one turn to decimate you as you an only use one move when holding the item.

Choice items are balanced as it increases an attack or speed stat in exchange for using multiple items, you as well as Eon-Rider have implied they are imbalanced because you couldn't predict around it, hence why I said its you that is the problem here.

[ZMaster]

Thanks.

Sorry but it is your fault, choice items are risky business anyways, using a full team of choice items would open you up to set up sweepers that only need one turn to decimate you as you an only use one move when holding the item.

Choice items are balanced as it increases an attack or speed stat in exchange for using multiple items, you as well as Eon-Rider have implied they are imbalanced because you couldn't predict around it, hence why I said its you that is the problem here.

What would be a good way to counter?

His team was the following:

Arcanine ;specs

Salamence ;band

Lucario ;scarf

Manectric ;specs <-=-=-= still mad about this thing

Gyaraods ;band *shiny <_<

-last slot unknown-

My 1st team was made to counter another team, but I didn't know about Choice Items, so I said "oh what the heck, let's go with it"

It was Hippowdon, Scizor, Blissey, Bronzong, Kingdra, forgot the last one =.=

[randomspot555]

It's simply seeing what move he uses, then switching in a counter to that move.

[ZMaster]

Bleh, my team had horrible type coverage And worst of all, I accidentally threw out my Scizor first, forgetting that his Arcanine was choice banded to flame wheel x.x

[Silent Storm]

Basic offensive combinations supported by bulky waters with good prediction should be able to take down most of his team, ScarfZone + Salamence with Vaporeon comes to mind here (totally unresisted type coverage and great support if you get what mean).

Next I would get a ghost type, preferably Dusknoir to soak up predicted Earthquakes and Lucario hits (cause from the looks of things I doubt his Lucario will be using dark moves.

Next get stuff that soak up physical attacks, the things that come to mind are Porygon2, who can paralyze the pokemon.

Nearly all of his team is outsped and killed by Infernape, due to the slow attackers, Infernape (MixApe or SD Ape) KOs Gyarados (Stone Edge or Thunderpunch) Salamence (Stone Edge or Hidden Power Ice) Arcanine (Stone Edge) Manectric (Stone Edge), the only thing that would out speed him is Lucario who is frail and can open him up to McGar.

Though you can ignore everything I just said and rely on Stealth Rock and prediction, it shouldn't be hard, with what he is using, Stealth Rock as well as the top OU pokemon (Heatran, Salamence, Scizor etc) give you an idea on why teams like his do not work.

[ZMaster]

Basic offensive combinations supported by bulky waters with good prediction should be able to take down most of his team, ScarfZone + Salamence with Vaporeon comes to mind here (totally unresisted type coverage and great support if you get what mean).

Next I would get a ghost type, preferably Dusknoir to soak up predicted Earthquakes and Lucario hits (cause from the looks of things I doubt his Lucario will be using dark moves.

Next get stuff that soak up physical attacks, the things that come to mind are Porygon2, who can paralyze the pokemon.

Nearly all of his team is outsped and killed by Infernape, due to the slow attackers, Infernape (MixApe or SD Ape) KOs Gyarados (Stone Edge or Thunderpunch) Salamence (Stone Edge or Hidden Power Ice) Arcanine (Stone Edge) Manectric (Stone Edge), the only thing that would out speed him is Lucario who is frail and can open him up to McGar.

Though you can ignore everything I just said and rely on Stealth Rock and prediction, it shouldn't be hard, with what he is using, Stealth Rock as well as the top OU pokemon (Heatran, Salamence, Scizor etc) give you an idea on why teams like his do not work.

His Salamence was beast, though. 1HKO-ing my Blissey with 714 HP.

[Silent Storm]

Blissey is not even built to take physical threats, she is a special wall.

[wraith89]

Choice items are predictor's best friends (from both sides)... and choice items are the reason why bulky waters don't do their jobs as efficiently as they used to anymore

Problem with Infernape is that if that Stone Edge misses... he's definitely dead. And plus he's hard to switch in... really hard to switch in.

Edited May 2, 2009 by wraith89

[Syberia]

Remember, a pokemon that's locked into a single move is a free stat boost for something that doesn't care about it. If Scizor Pursuits my Latias, even though I'm down a pokemon, that's a free Swords Dance for my Lucario while Scizor is forced to switch or do no damage at all to me, which might lead to me killing 2 or more pokemon in return. Also, if you predict the Choiced move correctly (unless it's Outrage or Draco Meteor) you've just caused the opponent to waste a turn and switch out while accomplishing nothing.

[Greencat]

When I first entered WiFi Battling, I hated the choice items so much! Especially Choice Scarf. It gave them a huge advantage, but now I don't really care anymore and use that to my advantage because I'm able to predict better. In fact, using Trick along with a Choice item is helpful to stop Tanks, Spikers and Leads.

[Destati]

Choice items are the source of plenty of hurt, but the one-move-only drawback is huge. Send a Zapdos in against a choice banded Scizor using Bullet Punch and they'll have to switch.

[ZMaster]

My Choice Infernape, it locked to Thunderpunch, but conveniently, it was effective against the remaining two opponents

[GGfan]

I have a 6 choices team myself, and it is definitely awesome.

i see you say that when a poke is locked into a single move, then you can set up and win the game.That is the fun in it.You need to have a good revenge killer, that fits well into your team and can stop dd mence, dd gyara, etc.

One of these is SCARFED latias.Latias has 110 base speed, making it outspeed 1 dd mence, rock polish rhyperior, and just surprise kill them.

I do not consider 6 choices team gimmicky, it is a "fun" team at least.But it definitely works.If you have lost to it, your fault, sorry.

Also, the team you showed us was so fail, lol.

Edited June 1, 2009 by GGfan

[Illithian]

I have a 6 choices team myself, and it is definitely awesome.

i see you say that when a poke is locked into a single move, then you can set up and win the game.That is the fun in it.You need to have a good revenge killer, that fits well into your team and can stop dd mence, dd gyara, etc.

One of these is latias.Latias has 110 base speed, making it outspeed 1 dd mence, rock polish rhyperior, and just surprise kill them.

I do not consider 6 choices team gimmicky, it is a "fun" team at least.But it definitely works.If you have lost to it, your fault, sorry.

Also, the team you showed us was so fail, lol.

You have issues with bumping weeks old threads...

Okay, what are you TALKING about? Unless Latias is scarfed, even 0 EV 0 IV neutral speed natured Salamence with 1 DD will outspeed ALL Latias variants. And since almost all DDmence variants run max speed with a beneficial nature, thats 492 speed with +1 DD, with Latias having a max of 350.

To take that even further, Rock Polish Rhyperior always runs Jolly max speed. Thats 392 speed with a single Rock Polish. Incase you havn't noticed, Latias can hit a max of 350.

Unless its scarfed, which if it is, ignore all those numbers and next time be more specific.

Six choice teams are weak. Setting up entry hazards is impossible, making switches risk free and easy. Not only that, but there are so many free turns associated with 6 choice teams that its pathetically easy for any team to take down. It just takes a little bit of skill.

[GGfan]

You have issues with bumping weeks old threads...

Okay, what are you TALKING about? Unless Latias is scarfed, even 0 EV 0 IV neutral speed natured Salamence with 1 DD will outspeed ALL Latias variants. And since almost all DDmence variants run max speed with a beneficial nature, thats 492 speed with +1 DD, with Latias having a max of 350.

To take that even further, Rock Polish Rhyperior always runs Jolly max speed. Thats 392 speed with a single Rock Polish. Incase you havn't noticed, Latias can hit a max of 350.

Unless its scarfed, which if it is, ignore all those numbers and next time be more specific.

Six choice teams are weak. Setting up entry hazards is impossible, making switches risk free and easy. Not only that, but there are so many free turns associated with 6 choice teams that its pathetically easy for any team to take down. It just takes a little bit of skill.

Lol, that latias IS scarfed.i thought I posted that, sorry.

Also, I asked wraith(mod) if I can post on page 2 threads and he told me I can, so it is not an issue.

now, I ask, have you ever tried a 6 choice team?A serious 6 choice team , to be precise.I am using a 6 choice team, and I got up to 1485 rating using only it on smogon.

[Enkidu]

It's not hard to climb the Smogon ladder though. regardless of your team choice. 6 Choice pokemon presents an interesting gambit though, If no one on your opponents team has a strong resist to a Choice'd attack, a single pokemon can almost run through it.

However if they do managed to have resists to all of the attacks you choose, having 6 choice pokemon really puts a damper on you as unless you predict perfectly and your opponent messes up, he has an overwhelming advantage.

Even more so with things like Jolteon/Heatran/Vaporeon/Gliscor/gengar, pokemon that are immune to common attacking types, and are usually seen in some form on the majority of teams.

[wraith89]

Not to mention TrickScarfers won't be much of a hassle then. GGFan uses a team of 6 Choice Pokemon and utilizes it quite well.

[Enkidu]

The only pokemon that are ever going to be tricked are walls like Blissey or other leads to give you a free turn if they decided not to attack. Not to mention there only a few good trick users in the game and its ridiculously easy to predict what move to use as they trick, or predict a switch so that trick is useless.

Greencat can attest to that as he Tricked a Choice scarf on my lead metagross after I setup and I then proceeded to kill 4/6 of his team members with Choice scarf earthquake last time I was on shoddy.

[wraith89]

Heh. I made a variant of that lead Metagross. I merged the lead set with TrickScarf. It has been doing well... in just one battle... but the other time I accidentally Scarf'd it to a lucky Machamp. Woops. He he... silly me >.<