Turtlekid2

Exactly. To survive Stealth Rock effectively, you need to be packing a Rapid Spinner such as Forretress. This wouldn't be a problem if SR wasn't so widespread, but the fact remains that an astounding number of teams carry the move. In other words, one is forced to carry at least one Pokemon of a certain role that could otherwise be replaced with a more useful one, or at least one that works better with the rest of the team. Now, as I had hoped, some good points have been brought up. Certain 'mons such as Salamence and Gyarados would admittedly be more of a threat without Stealth Rock keeping them in check. And I'm not sure exactly how the Physical-Special split has affected such mainstays, but if the competitive scene remained relatively balanced and uncentralized without SR before Gen IV, surely counters and defenses could be devised like they always have? Also worth considering is that while the aforementioned OU sweepers and the like would be even more wicked without the influence of Stealth Rock, they are just that. "They" - plural; instead of one move necessitating a certain strategy, many different strategies would develop to deal with many different offensive threats. Obviously, this is a case of "woulda, coulda, shoulda," but I find it hard to believe that any of them could overcentralize the game more than SR already has.

Sorry for the bump, but I've gotta say: I got this for Christmas and it's awesome. It's great. Fun. Epic in every way. Did I actually say I didn't care to own this game? I was so young and foolish.

Ahoy, all. Anyone remember me? I've been somewhat unfaithful about staying on top of this forum. In any case, I apologize if this topic is superfluous, in the wrong place, or inappropriate in some other way. I searched and didn't find another thread like this one. Now, to business: The move Stealth Rock, for those of you that don't know, is a Rock-Type attack that is laid down in the same way as Spikes. It damages opponents switching into the battle for a set percentage of HP. However, unlike Spikes, Stealth Rock cannot be "layered" to deal additional damage to switching Pokemon. Instead, it takes type effectiveness into account. For example, a Flying Pokemon switching in while its team has been hit with Stealth Rock (or, "Rocked," if you will) will take double the damage switching in, just like it would take twice the damage from, say, Stone Edge. Now, therein lies the problem. Because of the unique mechanics of the move, the competitive scene has been flooded with "Rockers." It's seen absurd amounts of use due to its ability to deploy quickly (again, unlike Spikes, which requires multiple turns to be layered on fully) and take advantage of typing. One of the main reasons Garchomp was bumped to the Uber Tier was because it "overcentralized" the competitive game (that, and the terror known as Yachechomp); in other words, it became a necessity for a team to include a Pokemon entirely for the purpose of countering Garchomp. Now, admittedly, I'm no expert at comptetitive battling, so I could be missing something, and this whole topic could just be mindless rambling. But: it seems to me that we have a similar centralization problem with Stealth Rock. The effects of the move's popularity have reached fairly wide; take Charizard - once a reliable Borderline Pokemon, (according to Smogon's rankings for Gen III) not to mention a personal favorite of mine (which has contributed to my angst regarding SR), has been downgraded into the NU tier (again, according to Smogon). Okay, so there are probably other factors for Charizard's demotion, but the way I see it, it was largely thanks to Stealth Rock and the poor reptile's massive weakness to it. If it were only one Pokemon that had bitten the dust, the situation would've been acceptable. But more Pokemon than Charizard have been majorly screwed by SR (although some haven't been booted to lower tiers and levels of usage). Moreover, the Pokemon that haven't fallen through the tiers have been forced to take measures to deal with Stealth Rock. A Pokemon with Stealth Rock support and a Pokemon with Rapid Spinning capabilities have both become commonplace. In my opinion, this is comparable to many teams' including a Pokemon solely to deal with Garchomp. If practically requiring one or even two Pokemon to utilize and/or defend against one move isn't overcentralizing, I don't know what is. I suppose that's all I can think to say on the matter for now (tl;dr - Stealth Rock hasn't had a good effect on competitive Pokemon). Remember, don't be afraid to let me have it if I'm just blowing off a lot of hot air. Of course, if it seemed to make sense to you, I wouldn't mind being told I'm not alone in my line of thought. Also, I'm sure there are numerous other ways to look at the issue, so... discuss! Cry "Stealth Rock" and let slip the Houndoom of competitive battle.

Dear me, all this time has passed and I still don't have a decent photo of myself to show for it.

Excellent. Good enough to bring me out of a rather lengthy silence. Alright, I admit, it was a coincidence; I just came back to see what was new around here and found this gem. And am I the only one who sides with Paul on the sliding scale of idealism vs. cynicism?

I really want to get this, but my dad says I've got enough consoles already. D:

pokemon: Ninjask (Male) Held Item: Choice Scarf Level: 100 Ability: No Guard Nickname (If wanted): OTP Original Trainer (Trainer Name/OT): Turtle Trainer ID (If specific): 03131 Secret ID (If specific): Don't know Shiny (Yes or No): Yes Egg (Yes or No): No Nature: Jolly Attacks: Sheer Cold PP (max or normal): Max Pokérus Status: Cured Pokéball Captured In: Quick Ball Battle Stats: Max legally possible EV Stats: 252 Spd, 126 Def, 126 SpDef, 6 Hp IV Stats: All 31 Ribbons (If any): None Location/Date Met: Eterna Forest, January 1, 2009 Level Met At: 10 Happiness: 255 Contest Stats: 255 all Friend Code (required for Trading): 5198 8289 0189

The Battle Tower has been giving me trouble for quite a while, actually (trying to get 100 wins). I was thinking of going through with a Garchomp/Tyranitar/??? team. Any thoughts? Also, Articuno with Mind Reader and Sheer Cold is positively evil (I've actually used a Wondereye with a similar setup). But can it outspeed everything in the tower?

Ah, trust me, if I'm grabbing and throwing with Squirtle, I only use his D-Throw. And I'm still practicing the timing for "hydroplaning," but it's also quite useful. Ike is really fun to use in Item-heavy Free-for-alls, or if your opponent is predictable. If you can predict your opponent as Ike, you've already half-won. And good gracious, that's an interesting texture for our feathered friend.

How can I choose between two of the most awesome Pokemon to ever awesome the game? Luckily, the option for "both" means I don't have to. Maybe Mewtwo, though...

For one thing, my philosophy regarding Pokemon would change. I've always found it ironic that the games and anime go out of their way to specify that Pokemon are partners and friends, not pawns, when they are just that: pawns. Let's be honest here; Pokemon are pixels on a screen, and if the Pokemon is useless, it generally is ignored. You and your Pokemon could be the greatest pals in history, and it wouldn't stop your level 10 Bidoof from getting annihilated by Cynthia. However, if Pokemon were real and had the same intelligence and feelings as they supposedly do in the fictional world, it goes without saying that my philosophy on the matter would change somewhat.

I'm getting good with Pokemon Trainer. Squirtle's aerials rock.

pokemon: Sableye Held Item: Lucky Egg Level: 100 Ability: Wonder Guard Nickname (If wanted): Neo Original Trainer (Trainer Name/OT): Turtle Trainer ID (If specific): 03131 Secret ID (If specific): Shiny (Yes or No): No Egg (Yes or No): No Nature: Jolly Attacks: Mind Reader | Sheer Cold | Dark Void | Toxic PP (max or normal): Max Pokérus Status: Cured Pokéball Captured In: Dusk Ball Battle Stats: Whatever is normal with these EVs and IVs EV Stats: 252 Spd, 252 Hp, 4 Sp. Att. IV Stats: All max Ribbons (If any): None Location/Date Met: Iron Island | July 1st, 2009 Level Met At: 35 Happiness: 255 Contest Stats: 255 All Friend Code (required for Trading): 5189 8289 0189 (Turtle)

No "remember me" option and the fact that it's the forum's default theme means I have to log in every time I visit the forum. This one would be a thumbs-up if not for that.

It is admittedly rather annoying...