Problem Invalid: Encounter Type PID mismtach (3gen)

[Shady Guy Jose]

There's no Wii version. He means playing the GameCube version in a backwards-compatible Wii, which should be exactly the same as playing it on a GameCube.

[theSLAYER]

4 minutes ago, Shady Guy Jose said:

There's no Wii version. He means playing the GameCube version in a backwards-compatible Wii, which should be exactly the same as playing it on a GameCube.

So, in that scenario, will the Pokemon caught be transferable over to the mainline cartridges?
Assuming the GameCube player isn't involved (and you didn't mention it nor illuminate me regarding my question),
I take it that it is not possible?

(and I proceed to google whether is it possible)

[Edit 1: read that Wii not compatible with GameBoy Player]

[Shady Guy Jose]

2 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

So, in that scenario, will the Pokemon caught be transferable over to the mainline cartridges?
Assuming the GameCube player isn't involved (and you didn't mention it nor illuminate me regarding my question),
I take it that it is not possible?

(and I proceed to google whether is it possible)

[Edit 1: read that Wii not compatible with GameBoy Player]

The Game Boy Player isn't involved whether it's a Wii or a GameCube, IIRC. The games connect through a GBA-GameCube cable, and they work the same in a GameCube and BC Wii.

[theSLAYER]

1 minute ago, Shady Guy Jose said:

The Game Boy Player isn't involved whether it's a Wii or a GameCube, IIRC. The games connect through a GBA-GameCube cable, and they work the same in a GameCube and BC Wii.

ah, so it's direct connection, that's good to know.

In that case, it'll be best if we have 2 saves, one from a Physical Wii gameplay, and one from the Physical GameCube gameplay.

[Shady Guy Jose]

1 minute ago, theSLAYER said:

ah, so it's direct connection, that's good to know.

In that case, it'll be best if we have 2 saves, one from a Physical Wii gameplay, and one from the Physical GameCube gameplay.

There shouldn't be any difference. A Wii running in GameCube mode is virtually the same as a GameCube (same CPU architecture, underclocked to match the GameCube speed when running GameCube games).

[Gridelin]

4 minutes ago, Shady Guy Jose said:

There shouldn't be any difference. A Wii running in GameCube mode is virtually the same as a GameCube (same CPU architecture, underclocked to match the GameCube speed when running GameCube games).

This was my understanding as well, just didn't know if the Wii had a RTC similar to the GameCube or not.

[Shady Guy Jose]

Oh, and regarding "legitimately transferrable to Gen 3 games": we're not really talking about a transfer here, unless you mean the special gifts you get from that game, but rather a Gen 3 save played in Box's built-in emulator, right?

EDIT: which would be stored in and dumped from an original R/S cart, which would be in a GBA that's connected to the GameCube at all times during play

Edited September 20, 2018 by Shady Guy Jose

[theSLAYER]

21 minutes ago, Shady Guy Jose said:

Oh, and regarding "legitimately transferrable to Gen 3 games": we're not really talking about a transfer here, unless you mean the special gifts you get from that game, but rather a Gen 3 save played in Box's built-in emulator, right?

EDIT: which would be stored in and dumped from an original R/S cart, which would be in a GBA that's connected to the GameCube at all times during play

The gist of my question, relates to Pokemon captured on the Pokemon Box's in-built RS emulator.
Can those Pokemon (and eggs) be legitimately transferred to physical carts of Gen 3?

 

I have no idea whether Pokemon Box's RS emulator's captured mons can be stored in Pokemon Box or traded out etc.

Reason for this, is related to PID/IVs and RNG method of Pokemon captured on that legitimate RS emulator.
Wondering if it'll shake up PKHeX's legality checker.

[Shady Guy Jose]

Just now, theSLAYER said:

The gist of my question, relates to Pokemon captured on the Pokemon Box's in-built RS emulator.
Can those Pokemon (and eggs) be legitimately transferred to physical carts of Gen 3?

My point exactly: they don't have to. When you're using the emulator, it saves to a physical cart.

[theSLAYER]

4 minutes ago, Shady Guy Jose said:

My point exactly: they don't have to. When you're using the emulator, it saves to a physical cart.

It saves.. to a physical cart? I thought Pokemon Box's RS emulator can be used without a physical cart?

edit:
I'm now under the impression that you have your RS Cart slot into GBA,
connect to gamecube (to use it as controller), and the Pokemon Box reads the save of RS, and saves back to it later, is this correct?

Additionally, this also means the "emulator mode" cannot be accessed, when the player doesn't connect a physical RS cart to the system, is this also correct?

[Gridelin]

3 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

It saves.. to a physical cart?

I thought Pokemon Box's RS emulator can be used without a physical cart?

edit:
I'm now under the impression that you have your RS Cart slot into GBA,
connect to gamecube (to use it as controller), and the Pokemon Box reads the save of RS, and saves back to it later, is this correct?

Yes, I believe you can play with a regular GC controller as well though.

[theSLAYER]

Just now, Gridelin said:

Yes, I believe you can play with a regular GC controller as well though.

In this scenario, how is the cartridge connected to Pokemon Box tho? (relating back to Pokemon Box's emulator mode)

[Shady Guy Jose]

2 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

In this scenario, how is the cartridge connected to Pokemon Box tho? (relating back to Pokemon Box's emulator mode)

It's connected to controller slot 2

[theSLAYER]

1 minute ago, Shady Guy Jose said:

It's connected to controller slot 2

That's pretty cool. Too bad I never owned a GameCube or Wii

Now that all that is cleared up, at least I now know that the Pokemon captured is legitimate and affects legality checks.
(If it was sandboxed in the emulator and can't be extracted legitimately, then it wouldn't be a source of concern)

I think the best way to test whether the PIDIV generation are affected, is to capture a crap ton of Method_1 only Pokemon
(and probably hunt for some shinies)

[Shady Guy Jose]

1 minute ago, theSLAYER said:

That's pretty cool. Too bad I never owned a GameCube or Wii

Now that all that is cleared up, at least I now know that the Pokemon captured is legitimate and affects legality checks.
(If it was sandboxed in the emulator and can't be extracted legitimately, then it wouldn't be a source of concern)

I think the best way to test whether the PIDIV generation are affected, is to capture a crap ton of Method_1 only Pokemon
(and probably hunt for some shinies)

I would seriously laugh out loud if this produced some Pokemon with mismatched PID/IVs in the way VBA does (mGBA and John GBA apparently don't, from my latest Leaf Green playthrough). And I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry if someone's precious shiny legendary got flagged as illegal in recent games because of this oversight by Nintendo, in case it does happen.

[theSLAYER]

1 minute ago, Shady Guy Jose said:

I would seriously laugh out loud if this produced some Pokemon with mismatched PID/IVs in the way VBA does (mGBA and John GBA apparently don't, from my latest Leaf Green playthrough).

At this point, I would surprised if it doesn't cause mismatched PID/IVs XD

I should try those emus out in my free time ><

2 minutes ago, Shady Guy Jose said:

And I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry if someone's precious shiny legendary got flagged as illegal in recent games because of this oversight by Nintendo, in case it does happen.

How bout both, like this ->

Well, if they're the type to play everything legitimately, they probably don't have to be worried, since GF/TPCi/Nintendo doesn't seem to care about RNG-PIDIV data.

In any case, it depends on how bad the emulator is programmed on Pokemon BOX RS.
Would like to see some of such Pokemon, so that we know for sure

@Sabresite do you have a GameCube/Wii with Pokemon Box RS?

[Gridelin]

15 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

At this point, I would surprised if it doesn't cause mismatched PID/IVs XD

I should try those emus out in my free time ><

How bout both, like this ->

Well, if they're the type to play everything legitimately, they probably don't have to be worried, since GF/TPCi/Nintendo doesn't seem to care about RNG-PIDIV data.

In any case, it depends on how bad the emulator is programmed on Pokemon BOX RS.
Would like to see some of such Pokemon, so that we know for sure

@Sabresite do you have a GameCube/Wii with Pokemon Box RS?

I know I've checked in the past, but I can't remember right now and can't check here at work; is the ROM image on the Box.iso any different from the regular ROM image? Like do the hashes match etc...?

[Sabresite]

56 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

At this point, I would surprised if it doesn't cause mismatched PID/IVs XD

I should try those emus out in my free time ><

How bout both, like this ->

Well, if they're the type to play everything legitimately, they probably don't have to be worried, since GF/TPCi/Nintendo doesn't seem to care about RNG-PIDIV data.

In any case, it depends on how bad the emulator is programmed on Pokemon BOX RS.
Would like to see some of such Pokemon, so that we know for sure

@Sabresite do you have a GameCube/Wii with Pokemon Box RS?

Nope I don't. Since Box is a GC game there is no vblank. It should work exactly the same on an emulator.

[Shady Guy Jose]

Just now, Sabresite said:

Nope I don't. Since Box is a GC game there is no vblank. It should work exactly the same on an emulator.

The thing is, as I said earlier, the behavior tends to differ between emulators. There have been reports of mismatches on VBA, but from my (admittedly limited) testing on other emulators (namely mGBA on Windows and John GBA on Android), that doesn't happen. I can upload my stationary PKM files from a Leaf Green playthrough I did on both of them (syncing through Dropbox so I could play on the go and at home). Box may have a behavior that's similar to VBA, or a different one altogether, so testing may be warranted.

[Sabresite]

Mismatches on GBA emulators are due to vCPU timings and vBlank. The code is not set up the same way on Box.

[Shady Guy Jose]

1 minute ago, Sabresite said:

Mismatches on GBA emulators are due to vCPU timings and vBlank. The code is not set up the same way on Box.

Sorry, I don't see what you're getting at. You mean that we could test it on a GC emulator, eliminating the need for actual hardware, or that testing isn't necessary at all?

[Sabresite]

Oh I did miss something. The question is about the Ruby/Sapphire ROM on the Box. The playing on the big screen feature.

TLDR is, dunno, would have to test, anything is possible. Maybe even Method 3 depending on timing. That is if it's emulated through the GC itself.

[Shady Guy Jose]

3 minutes ago, Sabresite said:

If the question is about whether or not Box on an emulator will produce PID/IV mismatches, then the answer is no, never.

Or did I miss the question?

The possibility was raised (based on anecdotal reports) that Box's inbuilt RS emulator, in and of itself, even running on actual hardware, might produce mismatches due to programming oversights by GF/Nintendo.

EDIT: saw your second message now

Edited September 20, 2018 by Shady Guy Jose

[Sabresite]

Mismatches are due to vBlank interrupts. vBlank will interrupt at inconsistent places depending on nature rolling and hardware/emulation used. Theoretically any Method 1/2/3/4 is possible. Stationeries are interesting because the likelihood of a non Method 1 on the actual GBA is near or exactly zero.

 

Edit: Also it is technically broken up into several sub categories too (first party pokemon ability not taken into account).

Method-1-1, Method-1-2, Method-2-1, Method-2-2, Method-3-2 (The 2 makes it Method 3), Method-4-2 (the 2 makes it Method 4)

Where the second number is the number of vBlank interrupts between battle start and end of IV generation. Generally the exotic ones only happen when fishing or in caves while playing on an actual cart.

IIRC, on some emulators Method-4-1 is possible due to bad timings.

[Shady Guy Jose]

1 minute ago, Sabresite said:

Mismatches are due to vBlank interrupts. vBlank will interrupt at inconsistent places depending on nature rolling and hardware/emulation used. Theoretically any Method 1/2/3/4 is possible. Stationeries are interesting because the likelihood of a non Method 1 on the actual GBA is near or exactly zero.

So the question is whether Box's inbuilt emulator will produce vBlank interruptions, which are more easily detected in stationary encounters. Does this justify a Ruby playthrough on a GameCube/Wii? Some edge case legality checks could benefit from it, no?