Eon-Rider Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 This is pretty much my first competitive Pokemon team so don't yell at me if I have some really obvious mistakes. This team is focused around Guts Activation Swellow. Please help me improve it. The team consists of three UU and three OU Pokemon. The Team Spiritomb Anti-lead/Rapid Spin Blocker @ Leftovers Pressure Careful 252 HP / 140 Atk / 116 SpD - Taunt - Pursuit - Pain Split - Will-O-Wisp Spiritomb's job is to mainly shut down some common leads such as Azelf and Gengar who pose a threat to the team. It also helps block Rapid Spin if it survives for whatever reason. Rhyperior Tank @ Leftovers Solid Rock Impish 244 HP / 184 Def / 80 SpD - Avalanche - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Stealth Rock Stealth Rock is a key move on Rhyperior in order to support Swellow's Facade and that small amount of damage from Stealth Rock may help to ensure the kill. Swellow Physical Sweeper @ Toxic Orb Guts Jolly 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe - U-turn - Facade - Protect - Brave Bird Swellow is my main sweeper. If it's in trouble against a Pokemon that threatens it with a high Attack stat, I can use U-turn to switch to Gyarados or Hitmontop depending on the type. Hitmontop Spinner @ Leftovers Intimidate Impish 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe - Toxic - Rapid Spin - Stone Edge - Close Combat Hitmontop helps counter Steel and Rock types. It's also a Rapid Spinner which helps Swellow out the next time it switches in. Stone Edge is there to counter the common Rotom who try to block Rapid Spin. Gyarados Physical Sweeper @ Leftovers Intimidate Adamant 156 HP / 108 Atk / 100 Def / 144 Spe - Taunt - Waterfall - Stone Edge - Dragon Dance Gyarados works similarly to Hitmontop. It weakens Physical threats with Intimidate and is good for type coverage. Common counters to Swellow are Rock and Steel and Gyarados can handle the former. Rotom Rapid Spin Blocker @ Leftovers Levitate Bold 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe - Thunderbolt - Shadow Ball - Will-O-Wisp - Overheat Rotom helps block Rapid Spinners and is a great counter to Scizor and Metagross. Rotom is also an essential Pokemon on the team because of the Nintendo Connection Tour. They are giving out the Secret Key there and I'd like to suit the theme. Personal Opinion I probably don't have enough special defence and I may need to replace a Pokemon with a something more special based. Metagross seems to completely obliterate my team because of Clear Body which makes Hitmontop and Gyarados less effective. >.< Heatran ruins Rotom-H when it tries to counter the said Steel types so I need something to solve that problem.
Gin Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I'm no amazing battler, but you don't really need a Pokemon thats only job is a rapid spin blocker. Your team isn't really focused on Entry hazards, you only have one. You could switch your Rotom to a special sweeper/ attacker, suicune does both.
randomspot555 Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 The Team Spiritomb Anti-lead/Rapid Spin Blocker @ Leftovers Pressure Careful 252 HP / 140 Atk / 116 SpD - Taunt - Pursuit - Pain Split - Will-O-Wisp Unfortunately, this lead accomplishes pretty much nothing. Spiritomb being incredibly slow means it won't be stopping much with Taunt. Almost every other Taunt lead is faster, and those without Taunt will DD or Sub or whatever before it can use it. Metagross might be hinderedd by Will O Wisp, IF it hits. And that's a big if. Pursuit doesn't do much because not many are gonna flee in fear from Spiritomb. In UU, with 0 weaknesses, this thing can take hits. In OU, it's painfully underwhelming. Dusknoir is the ghost-of-choice in OU if you want a ghost to tank. Great base special attack, decent defenses, Pain Split, good move pool, etc.. However, you need a lead that can actually do something. Aerodactyl is the best suicide lead, bar none. Taunt, sets up Rocks, might even get a hit in if lucky. Bulky leads such as Metagross and Swampert can set up rocks and stay around for tons of attacks. RhyperiorTank @ Leftovers Solid Rock Impish 244 HP / 184 Def / 80 SpD - Avalanche - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Stealth Rock With an astounding SIX weaknesses (two being x4 to water and grass), it's typing screwa up what could be a great bulky ground. It's weak to the most common move (Earthquake), almost guaranteeing it will never safely switch into anything. Plus with the rise of Zapdos' HP Grass it makes it even more dead weight. Swampert does this guy's job a million times better. Better typing, great move pool: Swampert w/ Leftovers Adamant Torrent 252 HP/128 DEF/128 Sp Def - Surf - Ice Beam - Earthquake - Roar Feel free to throw SR in there somewhere too. In fact, this could be a halfway decent starter if it has SR. SwellowPhysical Sweeper @ Toxic Orb Guts Jolly 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe - U-turn - Facade - Protect - Brave Bird It seems like a great strategy, doesn't it? However, it's also fairly predictable. IT's a huge invitation for ghosts to come in, particularly the bulky, aforementioned Dusknoir or Scarf Gengar. Immune to normal, resist bug. And if SR is still down, add in possible weather damage, Swellow's lifeliness will end quickly. I view GUTS as something you either plan for (whcih is why Rest Talk Machamp is so great), or you get lucky (Guts on Scarfcross, which is essentially gg). Swellow isn't cut out for OU, and for good reason. Unless everything goes perfectly, it'll die quickly. HitmontopSpinner @ Leftovers Intimidate Impish 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe - Toxic - Rapid Spin - Stone Edge - Close Combat If its only purpose is Rapid Spin, I think there are several others much better. Donphan w/ Leftovers Adamant/Bold Sturdy 252 HP/252 DEF/6 HP - Rapid Spin - Knock Off - Roar - Rock Tomb/Ice Shard This Donphan set is all about team support. Rapid Spin to get away spikes. Knock Off with good prediction can screw up counters (almost all Donphans don't invest in Attack, so they know it won't hit hard, so common switch ins are guys who need to set up or Choice users). Roar is great to scout around teams so it can accumulate SR damage. Rock Tomb cuts the foe's speed. Ice Shard is an awesome priority move. However, with no attack, it doesn't hurt much even for x4 damage. And it's VERY predictable. GyaradosPhysical Sweeper @ Leftovers Intimidate Adamant 156 HP / 108 Atk / 100 Def / 144 Spe - Taunt/Thunder Wave - Waterfall - Stone Edge - Dragon Dance Thunder Wave might work a bit better. Otherwise fine as long as your spinner stays alive. RotomRapid Spin Blocker @ Leftovers Levitate Bold 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe - Thunderbolt - Shadow Ball - Will-O-Wisp - Overheat Nintendo Connection Tour? Like an official tournament? Rotom (all forms) are banned in the tournament.
Toffeuy Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 I've realised that all your pokemon either only uses Physical moves or only uses Special Moves. How about getting a MixSweeper for a Change?
Eon-Rider Posted July 14, 2009 Author Posted July 14, 2009 Nintendo Connection Tour? Like an official tournament? Rotom (all forms) are banned in the tournament. Nah, it isn't an official tournament. It's just an Nintendo event where they demonstrate new features of Wii. Since there will be Secret Key distribution as well, I thought there might be some decent players there. Thanks for your feedback on my team. I suppose I actually like UU Pokemon more than I actually care about winning. I just hate using all those incredibly overused Pokemon. I'll experiment with your suggestions though as well as the ones others have posted.
randomspot555 Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 Nah, it isn't an official tournament. It's just an Nintendo event where they demonstrate new features of Wii. Since there will be Secret Key distribution as well, I thought there might be some decent players there. Ok, just remember that the Rotom forms will only work if it's Plat vs Plat in the Union Room. Plat vs D/P will work, but it'll appear as normal form in the D/P cart. And in Wi-Fi, forms and exclusive moves won't work at all. Thanks for your feedback on my team. I suppose I actually like UU Pokemon more than I actually care about winning. I guess. UU Pokes can function in OU. However, they almost always fulfill very specific, niche roles. Most of the time, there's a Pokemon who can do it better. Milotic is a great RestTalker in OU, for example. However, Specs set (which is great in UU) is done better by Suicune, Starmie, and many others.
Enkidu Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Dusknoir is the ghost-of-choice in OU if you want a ghost to tank. Great base special attack, decent defenses, Pain Split, good move pool, etc.. he has good physical attack, not special. The rotom formes can also be spec'd to counter just as much as Dusknoir, but they have some useful immunities that help them do what dusknoir cannot. The only advantage I see dusknoir having is his ability to beat tyranitar with a fighting attack, other than that I've got to give it to the rotom formes as "ghost of choice". Anyway if your goal is to get Swellow to sweep your going to need to bait out common steel types and priority users, and then kill them. But I have to agree with what randomspot said, the strategy isn't particularly effective when the majority of OU teams are filled with Steel types and priority users, on top of SR almost ALWAYS being up. Anyway, make some changes using randomspots advice and then we can talk about more changes.
Psycho K Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Good for a first try, I think. I've not been playing for too long, but right off the bat, I can tell this team needs some work. SpiritombAnti-lead/Rapid Spin Blocker @ Leftovers Pressure Careful 252 HP / 140 Atk / 116 SpD - Taunt - Pursuit - Pain Split - Will-O-Wisp Spiritomb's job is to mainly shut down some common leads such as Azelf and Gengar who pose a threat to the team. It also helps block Rapid Spin if it survives for whatever reason. This doesn't do anything to lead Azelf. It will set up Stealth Rock and then it will probably leave since it has Explosion duty later in the match. I was not aware of Gengar being used as a lead unless it was for the fast Hypnosis (Crobat does it faster) and the Fake Out immunity. Speaking of Hypnosis, that's what I remember most lead Spritomb doing since it can afford a miss, unlike Gengar. Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split are good stuff. As you see on the Smogon set, those 140 Attack EVs only have a slight chance for the OHKO on Azelf with Sucker Punch, not Pursuit. I used this moveset (Sucker Punch instead of Pursuit), but with max HP, 334 S.DEF, 118 speed (can outrun Forretress) Spiritomb. What was amusing is how it single-handedly beat a Milotic. >_> I'm not sure what to say here. Since we're on the bulky Ghost discussion, let's jump right to Rotom. RotomRapid Spin Blocker @ Leftovers Levitate Bold 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe - Thunderbolt - Shadow Ball - Will-O-Wisp - Overheat Rotom helps block Rapid Spinners and is a great counter to Scizor and Metagross. Rotom is also an essential Pokemon on the team because of the Nintendo Connection Tour. They are giving out the Secret Key there and I'd like to suit the theme. Rotom shines as the fastest among the bulky Ghosts and the one that can hurt the most which scares the hell out of Rapid Spinners. Thunderbolt gets Starmie, Tentacruel, Blastoise and Kabutops nicely. You're using Heat Rotom and that means big trouble for Forretress who would dare not stay in. I think Cut/Mow Rotom is most useful since its Leaf Storm scares off Donphan and Claydol (granted, he doesn't like Shadow Ball) and it just gives your team a Grass move which is nice in case you really hate Swampert and Rhyperior. The thing you'll miss most about using this over the other two bulky Ghosts is Pain Split, which can give you a hell of a lot of staying power! Granted, staying power matters less when you're actually able to hurt whatever you're up against. As Heat Rotom, you've got two Fire moves there, so be very wary about throwing Overheat or Will-o-Wisp into a Heatran. This set does not have any special defense, so you really won't like taking a Flash Fired move from the volcanic beast. I strongly suggest you just go with one of the two. Just consider which of these fits your team better, or just see which one has more likable aspects for your battle strategy. RhyperiorTank @ Leftovers Solid Rock Impish 244 HP / 184 Def / 80 SpD - Avalanche - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Stealth Rock Stealth Rock is a key move on Rhyperior in order to support Swellow's Facade and that small amount of damage from Stealth Rock may help to ensure the kill. Rhyperior's huge HP can only do so much. He still has a lot of weaknesses so you have to be careful about when you deploy him. Bronzong and Magnet Rise Magnezone are two Pokemon you don't want to encounter with this set. Bronzong can Trick to grab your Leftovers and then give out a little pain with Grass Knot if you stayed. Magnezone will Magnet Rise over the Earthquake and then get some Hidden Power Grass going. I suppose it still works as an okay wall, but don't get your hopes up about him lasting endlessly. With Sandstorm, he could really get somewhere with lasting longer though. SwellowPhysical Sweeper @ Toxic Orb Guts Jolly 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe - U-turn - Facade - Protect - Brave Bird Swellow is my main sweeper. If it's in trouble against a Pokemon that threatens it with a high Attack stat, I can use U-turn to switch to Gyarados or Hitmontop depending on the type. Swellow has the problem that all the normal birds not named Staraptor has: Rock and Steel-types. Metagross can get a Bullet Punch off before you can do anything and that might be enough for the KO depending on how much HP you've got. Even if it was not, none of your moves will KO him. Knowing this, he may Agility and be all set for whatever Gyarados (ThunderPunch/Stone Edge), or Hitmontop (Zen Headbutt) had in store for him. As you noted, Intimidate won't do anything to Metagross. You need a better main sweeper/star of the team/etc. HitmontopSpinner @ Leftovers Intimidate Impish 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe - Toxic - Rapid Spin - Stone Edge - Close Combat Hitmontop helps counter Steel and Rock types. It's also a Rapid Spinner which helps Swellow out the next time it switches in. Stone Edge is there to counter the common Rotom who try to block Rapid Spin. You're better off Sucker Punching Rotom, since it will start attacking you once it has Burned you will Will-o-Wisp. You probably should just Toxic on the switch and then Sucker Punch as needed. Against Dusknoir and Spiritomb, Sucker Punch or Stone Edge are gone in a hurry due to Pressure. They are also far harder to wear down. Some weird Spiritomb might have Psychic so be wary of that, I guess. GyaradosPhysical Sweeper @ Leftovers Intimidate Adamant 156 HP / 108 Atk / 100 Def / 144 Spe - Taunt - Waterfall - Stone Edge - Dragon Dance Gyarados works similarly to Hitmontop. It weakens Physical threats with Intimidate and is good for type coverage. Common counters to Swellow are Rock and Steel and Gyarados can handle the former. You sure? I don't know if +2 Attack BulkyGyara can OHKO Rhyperior, but I've got a feeling his Stone Edge will one-shot you. Aerodactyl will still be faster after your first Dragon Dance and then try to KO with Stone Edge. If it knows it can't, it will Taunt you. I was talking about those two as switch-ins, which would be odd, but if you're overly predictable with Dragon Dance, it could happen. Empoleon resists both attacks and can cause pain with Hidden Power Electric. This is a very good set, but you just need to be smart about how you use it. Switching into Rock-types is a risk since even after the attack drop, Stone Edge can cause good hurt. Oh, I forgot about Tyranitar. Be careful around those. TyraniBoah's Thunderbolt will put you down quickly. Fix/tweak your team and let's see from there. A special wall would indeed be nice since Starmie can really cause a bit of trouble for your Pokemon and nothing you've got is quick enough to do a whole lot about it but Swellow. If you went with Rotom as your bulky Ghost, that could scare it off. Starmie doesn't like getting Sucker Punched by Spiritomb either. The best answer to Steels is Infernape. He cooks them all except Heatran which is usually not going to like Close Combat.
Dimi Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 You sure? I don't know if +2 Attack BulkyGyara can OHKO Rhyperior, but I've got a feeling his Stone Edge will one-shot you. [/color][/size][/font] Well, a +2 108 Atk Ev Waterfall from Gyarados does 104% - 123% to a 252 Hp / Def Impish Rhyperior w/ Solid Rock =)
Psycho K Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Well, a +2 108 Atk Ev Waterfall from Gyarados does 104% - 123% to a 252 Hp / Def Impish Rhyperior w/ Solid Rock =) Interesting. That's more than I expected. Realistically, Rhyperior would switch in on the first Dragon Dance and then probably survive the Waterfall if Gyarados decided to stick around. If the Gyarados is lucky, Stone Edge will miss, or Waterfall will make Rhyperior flinch.
Illithian Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 I guess I might aswell do a rate. I'm bored, so whatever. Spiritomb: I'm going to be brutally honest: Spiritomb is a crap lead in OU (which is why hes in UU). Hes too slow for taunt to realistically do anything. Switch Pursuit to Sucker Punch and you can OHKO Gengar (I think?) with it. Really, Spiritomb is annoying, but not troublesome. His defenses aren't high enough to be a true wall in OU. Use a Swampert lead. Much more effective, and counters ghosts / steels troublesome for Swellow. Rhyperior: Rhyper can't do anything. I'm wondering at Smogon, keeping him in OU. In any case, Rock Polish is a fantastic set up move that can enable Rhyperior to actually do something. It does make him viciously fast. In any case, if you can find a niche location to switch him in, and can set up Rock Polish, you have an exceedingly powerful sweeper thats respectably fast; however be extremely careful because Rhyperior is useless as a wall. Switch Stealth Rock for Rock Polish if you use a swampert lead. Swellow: Star of the show. Unfortunately, not a very good one. That set is very well known and extremely deadly in UU, but not in OU. It is walled by a TON of different pokemon, and destroyed by even more; Ice Shard simply massacres Swellow. Scizor, Metagross, and any priority user can take him down, as can DDmence. If Mixmence outspeeds you, you're dead with Draco Meteor. Same goes for all scarfers. Rotom walls you. The list goes on. I can't give you suggestions to replace him though, because hes the star. Hitmontop: Useless. Donphan is a much better pokemon. Use the set described by Enkidu (I think, might have been randomspot). Gyarados: I don't have anything specifically against it, but I think DDmence would be better... DDmence can help set up for Swellow too with Fire Blast and Earthquake to effectively deal with steels. Rotom: Your team doesnt need an RS blocker. A steel wall would be effective though. A few options include Gliscor (massive team ice weakness though) and Hippowdon, which further the destruction of steels. Still, Bronzong walls this team (except for Rotom, but what bronzong would stay in on him?) Good luck. =)
Enkidu Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 Rhyperior: Rhyper can't do anything. I'm wondering at Smogon, keeping him in OU. In any case, Rock Polish is a fantastic set up move that can enable Rhyperior to actually do something. It does make him viciously fast. In any case, if you can find a niche location to switch him in, and can set up Rock Polish, you have an exceedingly powerful sweeper thats respectably fast; however be extremely careful because Rhyperior is useless as a wall. He's one of those pokemon that need to be used properly in order to wreck havoc, his main selling point is that he can switch in and take a hit, setup ( swords dance > Rock polish ) and then proceed to One shot his counters and even survive a super effective attack from 400% weakness's. He's not sturdy the way something like blissey is, think more along of the lines of a pure physical tyranitar. Modest 252 special attack Celebi's grassknot and CB 252 attack adamant Scizor's bullet punch fails to 1hko rhyperior with Stealth rocks up, while a sandstorm is in play ( assuming he has Solid rock as his ability ). After a swords dance he one shots Swampert with Earthquake, and outspeeds the majority of swamperts as well. If your not taking this thing out in one turn, chances are you've just lost a pokemon. He can switch in and setup on pokemon like Bronzong/blissey and setup once, and pose an immediate threat to the majority of teams. Even worse, all one would have to do is attack instead of setup, and you may very well have crippled your opponents best counter to him. Being able to take a hit from celebi/starmie and OHKO back is a godsend to have sometimes as well. /end rant Anyway once you make some changes to your team we can then rate it better. :F
Arandomproduction1 Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 I've realised that all your pokemon either only uses Physical moves or only uses Special Moves. How about getting a MixSweeper for a Change? Maybe like a Mix mence Salamence@Life orb EV's 84 Atk/ 216 SpAtk/ 208 Speed Nature: Mild Moves 1. Draco Meteor 2. Outrage 3. Fire Blast 4. Earthquake A decently fast mix sweeper. Or you could try Infernape.
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