Previous plans (No longer planned)

[Codr]

None of the below information is relevant any longer. PokeGen will not cost, but is no longer maintained by myself. Mat (Bond697) has taken over.

The next release of PokeGen is going to require a one-time payment to use. It's not going to be much, and it is a one-time thing, so I'm hoping it's not going to be too much of a deterrent.

The program has gotten to the point that it's increasingly difficult to manage, and it's already taken an incredible amount of time and effort on my part to get it to where it is today. I simply can't justify this any longer if it's not doing something more beneficial for myself. It was either I quit working on it, or try this out. So I'm choosing the latter.

Those who've already donated an amount greater than or equal to what I decide the cost to be won't have to provide anything further to use it. It's going to be less than $10, but I haven't decided exactly what yet. Payments will have to be done through PayPal, unless I can find suitable alternatives as well. I strongly suggest not donating early with the intention of not having to worry about it later. The specific amount is still in question, and there's no way for me to even give an estimate of when the next version will be available. If you still wish to donate for the purpose of support and covering the upcoming cost as a secondary concern, then that's fine.

Considering it makes no sense to add this kind of requirement if it's just a miniscule upgrade, there are quite a few things planned. What'll be available in the first paid release, I don't know. It depends on how fast I get things done.

Some examples of planned additions:

• More options for customizing the program's behavior
  
• Support for some of the new stuff in Black 2/White 2
  
• Possible return of generation 3 support, but very likely not in the first release
  
• Pokedex image modification
  
• Batch loading/saving of Pokemon
  
• Multiple Pokemon windows at the same time
  
• Possibly comparisons of Pokemon
  

That's not a complete list. It's also not intended to represent things that will definitely be in this next release, but things that I'm trying to add to it within a reasonable amount of time.

I'm interested in seeing opinions on this change. Questions are also welcome. Please keep related posts in this thread.

randomspot555 edit:I apologize to Codr for editing his post and filling it with red text, but I just want to make it clear. Any discussion about donating to PokeGen. specifically of the complaining variety, must be done in the most respectful manner. Anything less so will net you a hefty infraction and possibly a temporary ban.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Codr

[evandixon]

Oh, good. Gen 3 support is coming. My favorite...

[Codr]

It does say "possible" there.

[Chompizard25]

What? Why? I am not paying for an update!

[Codr]

What? Why?

You might understand in about 5+ years. Assuming you even read the first post.

[Chompizard25]

You might understand in about 5+ years.

Are u saying im not old enough to understand life?

Assuming you even read the first post.

I did.

[Codr]

Are u saying im not old enough to understand life?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Your posts throughout the forums give me a fairly good insight into how you think as well. Don't post again in this thread, since you've already made your thoughts (such as they are..) clear. It doesn't need the clutter.

[randomspot555]

I am totally in favor of this. You would think that there'd be more than one Pokemon editing program at any one time, but it doesn't seem to happen. PokeSav was around for Gen 4 and faded away by the end and PokeGen has been uncontested for Gen 5.

I personally am not a fan of PayPal but I understand it is the most convient method of payment for most people soo....

[Codr]

I personally am not a fan of PayPal but I understand it is the most convient method of payment for most people soo....

It's not because of a preference or something, it's because I don't know what else could be used. If you have anything to suggest, please do so.

[Poryhack]

It's not because of a preference or something, it's because I don't know what else could be used. If you have anything to suggest, please do so.

Have a look a Dwolla. Their fee schedule is simpler and more reasonable. The downside is that AFAIK you can't expedite the process of adding money to your account with a credit card like you can with PayPal.

[codem8kr]

well you've got my support Codr. All the work you've put into this program, the constant updates and responding to the questions. I'll gladly pay for the next release.

[Tumbly]

I have been a POKESAV fan for many years, and COM hasn't come out with a new POKESAV release for Pokemon W2 and B2. I have been using codes since Gameboy Pokemon Blue and Red, and over the years I have looked over your program just to see what features you can offer. The biggest feature for me that you do not offer, which I customized to every one of my Pokemon games is the ability to change the Character's Original Trainer ID and the Secret ID. So no matter what game I give my Pokemon to in my collection, I'm always the Original Trainer to the Pokemon. It would be nice if you had that option in the next release. The other suggested features I hope you would consider is customized the Character's Name, Gender, and Money. I'm planning to use POKEGEN for Pokemon B2 W2 and purchase your upgrade.

[evandixon]

[*]Pokedex image modification

That either makes Pokegen a ROM editor, Pokemon B2/W2 more complicated than I thought (I don't have either yet), or I'm not thinking clearly (with it being morning over here).

[randomspot555]

I know I'm pretty much behind the times when it comes to PokeGen and all and I know there's a separate program to edit and do stuff with WonderCards, but maybe a premium feature of PokeGen could be integrating WonderCard support so as to keep it all within one program?

[Kaphotics]

That either makes Pokegen a ROM editor, Pokemon B2/W2 more complicated than I thought (I don't have either yet), or I'm not thinking clearly (with it being morning over here).

Pokedex can have skins like C-Gears can. That's what he's alluding to

[evandixon]

Pokedex can have skins like C-Gears can. That's what he's alluding to

Oh, that image... I forgot about that...

[PokemonWorldMaster1]

I'd donate if the support to edit trainer card information was added. I've been waiting for this feature for months. And now that Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 are just literally a day away, I could really use those features.

[IFailAtPokemon]

I'm totally in favor of this, but I just have one thing to clarify. Will it cost money for every new version released, or just the next one?

[Rarity]

Hello there, Codr! I'm Rarity, and I just want to thank you and everyone else's work here on PokeGen. It's a tool I've used sparingly to help me enjoy Pokemon White/Black better. While I never liked PokeGen, I have to give you respect in that you offer a program that updates right out of the box and it is pretty. I've always prefered Pokesav over PokeGen because I feel PokeGen is too bogged down by having all its features hidden in menus, which makes it compact, but just a little on the difficult side, not to mention PokeSav offers a bunch of more features, that given extensive work on, could have made it far better than PokeGen, but alas PokeSav is not being updated and hasn't in forever. I notice you made this thread just mere seconds after the release of Pokemon White 2 hit the scene, which I think is not coincidence. Look around, what other alternatives to Pokemon Editing are there? Certainly not PokeSav, which leaves PokeGen as the defacto choice for Pokemon editors.

It is simply too big a hole to leave opened, so why not profiteer from it? Sounds reasonable. My boyfriend is a programmer, so I know all the hard work that goes into something, but I can't help but feel this is too much like taking advantage of a community. Cheathappens is a pretty good example of whats wrong with people who make software to help them and people who sell software that help them. But Pokegen isn't something that is made using CheatEngine, it required a lot more than that, and while it is possible you borrowed inspiration from PokeSav, it doesn't matter.

The point is this thread is to serve as a reminder. Any time you offer something on the net for free, you have no obligation to the users to update your software, or add features that people would want to use. If you are to charge people for software, now you have an issue on your hands, that can ultimately cause you a lot of frustration and headache, for you and your community.

You see, when you expect people to pay money, you have to give them reason to. And as seen with Guild Wars 2, even something that is "One-Time only payment", people expect LARGE Updates frequently. a small little list of upcoming changes (You may as well just Bold the "Black and White 2" support, because that's the part you want to hook people on) is hardly going to satiate anyone with a purse/wallet.

People who pay you for your software (even if it's a "One-Time payment") are going to expect more from you and your software. Features you haven't had That PokeSav has (which is older than dirt, I remind you) can no longer be considered justifiable (I.E "It's a lot of work by one+ People". "I don't plan to release those features." "Deal with it."). You can't say that to paying customers anymore, and you can't simply "Turn off" people complaining on your forums when their hard earned money didn't go where they wanted it to go.

As someone who is a moderator on the official forums of one of the biggest Indie games on the market, I know what even a small change to things can do, and I also know how it can devastate a community, and turn moderators into bad guys.

Think about it, and the new things you now have to deal with. PayPal Fraud, PayPal refunds, "I.E I paid X Dollars and didn't get the software". You will have to hire a team just to deal with this, and you can expect to do it alone. The number of Pokesav users is in the hundreds of thousands. With no other alternative, they will use your software. You are expected to provide a service to them if you charge them, so it's important you do so gracefully and hire a team of competent individuals to deal with PayPal and users who didn't get the product they paid for.

So I urge you, Codr, To rethink charging for your software for now. Let people get the bare basics for Black and White 2 Support, and later, introduce a premium version. People come to expect of you a great program they can use for their kids, or even themselves to help enjoy the game better. Other features you wish to tack on your software to jusify a price tag only turn to hurt people. PokeGen has been a program people have preferred over PokeSav for a long time now, and its most likely not because of its features its Lacking, but the fact that it is a reliable product that takes care of bugs when they appear, rather than having to work around them.

Let me once again encourage you to offer a free Basic tool, and offer a premium tool for those passionate about their Pokemon alterations. Your hard work deserves payment, but not by taking advantage of a community dying for a way to edit their Pokemon White/Black 2 Data.

Love, R ♥

[Codr]

I know I'm pretty much behind the times when it comes to PokeGen and all and I know there's a separate program to edit and do stuff with WonderCards, but maybe a premium feature of PokeGen could be integrating WonderCard support so as to keep it all within one program?

Mystery Gift support was added already, although the cards can't be edited. I don't think they NEED to be edited.

Will it cost money for every new version released, or just the next one?

It'll be a one-time thing. You won't have to do it again for new releases.

Regarding requests for trainer information modification, that is something on the list to be done. There's going to be a new dialog added that has miscellaneous things like that in it. (Not necessarily in the first release, again.)

Edit for the ninja post above:

I notice you made this thread just mere seconds after the release of Pokemon White 2 hit the scene, which I think is not coincidence.

The timing is intentional, but not for the reasons you think. You're not going to believe that, but I can't do anything to convince you further.

I can't help but feel this is too much like taking advantage of a community.

It's not as if I'm requesting a monthly payment, or even a ridiculous amount. Come on. Are all the people on the mobile phone stores taking advantage of the community because they mostly require payments to download their software? Also, what about the people that've been taking advantage of ME? Have you seen a lot of the posts on the forums here? There's often a "give me give me give me" attitude with no concern for anyone but themselves. (Note that I said "some" and "often". There are also those who do have respect.)

while it is possible you borrowed inspiration from PokeSav

Now that's insulting. (I'm serious with the comment, but I mean it jokingly, if that makes sense.)

You see, when you expect people to pay money, you have to give them reason to. And as seen with Guild Wars 2, even something that is "One-Time only payment", people expect LARGE Updates frequently. a small little list of upcoming changes (You may as well just Bold the "Black and White 2" support, because that's the part you want to hook people on) is hardly going to satiate anyone with a purse/wallet.

I think you need to let me worry about that. I have given this plenty of thought.

People who pay you for your software (even if it's a "One-Time payment") are going to expect more from you and your software. Features you haven't had That PokeSav has (which is older than dirt, I remind you) can no longer be considered justifiable (I.E "It's a lot of work by one+ People". "I don't plan to release those features." "Deal with it."). You can't say that to paying customers anymore, and you can't simply "Turn off" people complaining on your forums when their hard earned money didn't go where they wanted it to go.

Why can't I determine what features to add? So if someone pays a single, small fee, that must mean they have full control over the direction the software is going to take? I don't know of any paid software that works that way, or any software at all for that matter. The developers take input from the users and decide what to do with it. That's how it's always been.

Think about it, and the new things you now have to deal with. PayPal Fraud, PayPal refunds, "I.E I paid X Dollars and didn't get the software". You will have to hire a team just to deal with this, and you can expect to do it alone. The number of Pokesav users is in the hundreds of thousands. With no other alternative, they will use your software. You are expected to provide a service to them if you charge them, so it's important you do so gracefully and hire a team of competent individuals to deal with PayPal and users who didn't get the product they paid for.

I think you're adding way too much expectation on the user's part. I'm a single person, not a company. If they expect the level of responsiveness of a company, that's a mistake on their part. I've paid for software made by an individual before. It took weeks to get registration information. That didn't bother me. (I'm not at all saying that's what's going to happen here, and I definitely don't expect it to ever get anywhere near that extreme.)

Let people get the bare basics for Black and White 2 Support, and later, introduce a premium version.

What I consider the "basics" already are there in 3.1.10. Code generation is all that's affected for the English versions.

People come to expect of you a great program they can use for their kids, or even themselves to help enjoy the game better. Other features you wish to tack on your software to jusify a price tag only turn to hurt people.

The people who've already donated don't seem to be hurting. In fact, they seem to agree that the time spent is worth something.

Let me once again encourage you to offer a free Basic tool, and offer a premium tool for those passionate about their Pokemon alterations. Your hard work deserves payment, but not by taking advantage of a community dying for a way to edit their Pokemon White/Black 2 Data.

3.1.10 can't be magically removed from the internet, so it's obviously still going to be around. As for a "dying way", I fully expect that someone is going to make something else soon enough anyway.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Codr

[Rarity]

I think you took everything I said as an insult. I assure you, that as not the case. I just wished to share my opinion on it, and to be fair, you did ask for advice on what people thought of paying. As for convincing me, I wasn't aware that was the idea of the thread =P.

[Codr]

Nothing was taken as an insult, actually. You might note that one line that I specifically took the time to point that out. I appreciate your thoughts on it, and did reconsider things as I went along. I just came to the same conclusions I already had.

[Bond697]

what indie game?

[Screamoarte]

I agree that we should compensate the dedication and hard work of Codr, but I have a doubt:

1º As you will have control of who has paid and hasn't paid for the use of the software?

2º You will provide a serial code (if so, there may be fraud and people who have not paid make use of Pokegen.)

[ShadowMan93]

Hi Codr. I just want to to thank you for all the time and effort put into PokeGen and I believe this one-time payment is a great idea and I plan on paying for the update. I'm just abit curious about the payment. Are only the users who pay for the update get access to all future upgrades while the people who don't pay only get the current version?(haha don't judge me) And idk if this belongs in this forum too or not but in the current version of Pokegen I noticed that some of the locations for the Pokemon Black/White2 are still in their japanese names such as floccessy twon is still Yamaji town. I wasn't sure if you were aware of it or if you planned to have that in the new update. Anyways big fan and keep up the good work!