Hoenn: Starters Poll

[FLOOTENKERP]

Infernape looks cool and is useful, whereas Mudkip evolves into useful crap.

[wraith89]

Infernape looks cool and is useful, whereas Mudkip evolves into useful crap.

What?! Wow, you have no sense of tastes whatsoever. Swampert's pretty cute if you ask me. This matter is purely subjective, so you can't go enforcing that Mudkip is ugly. Some people actually like it... and I like all water starters.

You do NOT mess with the Mudkip Nazis! I am a member

[FLOOTENKERP]

Mudkip is kinda cute, I'm talking about what it evolves into. And Infernape is cool looking.

[wraith89]

Infernapes = ugly >:-(

Marshtomp is kinda awkward, but Swampert isn't that bad looking. It's just... more bigger.

[FLOOTENKERP]

We're all entitled to our opinions I guess...

[Mewtwo Ex]

People i understand that you have different favorite Pokemon (some don't). But you are all that are posting. No one has posted for a while.

[FLOOTENKERP]

Threads die out after a while when everyone already posted on topic. If the topic is kept alive by off topic posts, is it really still alive?

[Dimi]

Mudkip was the best starter, even though i used Treecko my 1st run. With only 1 weakness and nice defenses why wouldn't you use it. IMO Blaziken kinda sucked. Sure it was useful when fighting the E4, but it was difficult getting by the last 3 gyms.

[wraith89]

All the Hoenn starters were good though

[Fallen]

I'm still standing by Johto's being better. They are far superior in looks.

[wraith89]

Johto starters has more fans, but so far they have the WORST starters in competitive battling unfortunately. However, Feraligatr's definitely improved and is possibly the second best water starter (next to Swampert).

[Fallen]

Well they didn't start giving the starters secondary types until the 3rd generation, minus Venusaur. A water/ground is going to be better than a just water.

[wraith89]

Blame those monkeys at Gamefreak :-/

Water/Ground isn't always better. They fixed everything that was wrong with Quagsire and made it Swampert... although Quagsire gets WATER ABSORB over Swampert (Swampert tends to lose to other Bulky Waters).

[Fallen]

I didn't mean always. I don't care for competitive battling too much, so the starters are good for me since they are fine for in-game play.

[wraith89]

I think it's just the Base Stat Total (Swampert has the most BST over all starters, although the Fire starters are only down by 1 point... see how they keep buffing up their fire types?). Yeah, Johto starters are pretty good in-game except Chikorita >_<

You were forced to use Tackle and Razor Leaf as your only offensive attacks against the majority Flying/Poison/Grass pokes across the game... THAT was hard... which I like

[FLOOTENKERP]

Blame those monkeys at Gamefreak :-/

I'm going to have to kill you now... (Joking)

Where are you...

I had it earlier...

My mom must have misplaced it...

Ahh, I remember!

AHA!Oh, there you are.

[wraith89]

Floot, I'll say this again in case you missed my first warning. If you're going to post, PLEASE continue the conversation instead of posting meaningless posts as such. You tend to do that often just to let you know. Yeah, I know... it's my job to do this, so don't think of me differently

[FLOOTENKERP]

I know, but off topic posting rocks! But, I personally think that the Johto starters could kill the Hoenn starters. I would give my Chikorita awesome defensive and supportive moves, make Typhlosion the physical, and pimp out my Feraligatr to be special. Take that Hoenn!

[wraith89]

But you shouldn't do that. Usually that's what you call SPAM, which means Stupid Pointless Annoying Messages. We usually TRY to keep things ON topic or else the topic would go to random places where no one's ever thought of before.

Anyways, to keep MYSELF on topic, Hoenn starters are usually the best in competitive battling. They don't have many fans, but they are useful because Gamefreak has finally learned from a few of their mistakes. But I won't count on them to be smart or anything... because they usually make dumb moves.

Wait... PHYSICAL Typhlosion and SPECIAL Feraligatr? LOL, really? It's the other way around Floot! PHYSICAL Feraligatr and SPECIAL Typhlosion! X_X

[FLOOTENKERP]

You can't say they are stupid, they are the cause of competitive battling. And Hoenn starters aren't invincible. They will be beaten by a better Johto Pokémon starter.

[wraith89]

You can't say they are stupid, they are the cause of competitive battling. And Hoenn starters aren't invincible. They will be beaten by a better Johto Pokémon starter.

I never said Hoenn starters were invincible. I'm just saying they are better off in competitive battling than most. And obviously NO ONE is keeping their Swampert against a Meganium. It's more about how much more useful they are against certain threats in the standard metagame.

Swampert has the ability to take down Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, Rhyperior, Hippowdon, Flygon, Infernape (sometimes), Zapdos (sometimes), and others among many. Not many Pokemon can really claim that, especially not much from the Johto arc. The closest thing I can find is Feraligatr, but even he can get walled by Hippowdon if he hasn't set up.

And yes, I CAN call Gamefreak stupid. I still LOL @ their Tail Whip AND Leer Rhydon.

[FLOOTENKERP]

Hoenn will always be the weaker link in the Pokémon games to me. The starters don't give much of an effort. They don't seem strong enough. Johto mastered all of that. The starters were similar to the Kanto starters, which were also strong and showed effort, whereas the Hoenn starters were... not very good. At least not to me.

[wraith89]

Hoenn had very good Pokemon actually. Your like/dislike of a Pokemon and your personal preferences are two different things. Many people HATE Blissey (and HATE is an understatement), but NO ONE denies that she's the best special wall in the game. It's like that. Johto starters were usually bad news in battling... although back in their times, they were pretty good (but that's when everything was, well... GSC mode).

Floot, Shoddy NOW

I'll show you how Hoenn Pokes play

And I'll tell you straight up: Kanto starters are my favorites. Johto comes in close second.

[Illithian]

Hoenn will always be the weaker link in the Pokémon games to me. The starters don't give much of an effort. They don't seem strong enough. Johto mastered all of that. The starters were similar to the Kanto starters, which were also strong and showed effort, whereas the Hoenn starters were... not very good. At least not to me.

One big problem here. All the Johto starters are ridiculously underpowered in the 3rd and 4th generation, being outclassed by almost every pokemon of their type; pure water, fire, and grass types have little realistic use anywhere.

Not only that, but moveset can only take you so far. The fact is, no matter what new moves they give meganium, Meganium will still stay an extremely mediocre wall thats outclassed in UU by like 4 different things; Typhlosion will remain the only starter with usable speed and SpA stats; and Feraligatr will remain a Gyarados wannabe on his most usable set.

Hoenn staters are not much better, but they have many claims to fame.

Swampert has two types, a usable attack stat, and is bulky enough to earn itself a reputation as a bulky lead that can be extremely difficult to take down.

Blaziken also has two types. Unfortunately, Blaziken will always remain the underdog to Infernape. His moveset isn't bad though and his base stats arent either.

Sceptile is the fastest usable subseeder, along with having a usable SpA stat in UU. Meganium can't claim half as much.

The reasoning behind all of that is simple; in each generation, base stats GREW. And by that I mean pokemon evolved and new pokemon came in; only the pokemon from the first three generations that had exceedingly high base stats can hope to compete against pokemon such as Mamoswine and Bronzong. Many new legendaries and ubers provide even more powerful pokemon that replace the sweepers of old; Azelf and Cresselia are prime examples of this.

In newer generations, older pokemon will get worse and worse.

[wraith89]

Although Gator has Ice Punch and Torrent and can learn Swords Dance and has no W4 to Electricity to claim over Gyarados... Gator is outclassed by Gyarados for the most part.

Unfortunately, stuff like Pidgeot completely died because of Staraptor and Swellow outclassing it.

Sceptile is the 2nd fastest user of Subseed (the first is Skymin, but still, who uses Subseed set on a sweeper-oriented Skymin?)

Blaziken can Salac-Endure-Reversal (although that's best for Lucario) and can Baton Pass unlike Infernape. He also has better attack/special attack. Unfortunately, that ugly Son Goku wannabe monkey is better for the most part because he is faster.

Unfortunately, what Illithian said is true. Old Pokemon will become more and more useless as each generation grows. Look at poor Dragonite... all we see nowadays is Salamence. But that doesn't mean we can't stop liking the old Generation, right?

But fret not! Some old Pokemon are still useful in competitive battles. Gengar and Vaporeon, anyone?