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tool Pokemon Mystery Dungeon 2 - Psy_commando's Tools and research notes

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Hello, this is my first comment I have made on this site. 

I am creating a map for pmd explorers, and I have been working on it for a few days when suddenly, I realized, I dont even know what the map screen is capable of! I had planned to just make the map first and then figure out how to insert it into the game, but then I started thinking about things the wonder map screen might not be capable of... things like:

1. Can the map screen be colored differently and is it limited in colors? that one seems like an obvious yes, but i still must ask. I dont want to have wasted half of the palette size before I really even got going. 

2. Are there any misc. limits to the map screen? Things like timers for your pokemons animation and distance traveled and travel speed. I must know if we can change how fast or slow the pokemon travels on the map, and if there is any kind of  timeout for having the screen on the map too long.

3. As for my third question, I want to know if the map can be larger that the original 503 x 324. That is a weird size to have the map at, especially when you look at the map. you will notice that the map is not parallel at the top and bottom but left and right, makes me think that it is capped in size. 

I tried to find an article about the map but squinting through all the other ones is making my eyes spin, if you wanted to just give me the right article to look at it would be very much appreciated. Im really having fun thinking up new props and terrain for a new map, so I dont want to have to stop drawing. Even if I have to figure out how the map works myself I am willing to keep working on this map.

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@Clueless: For map editing you probably want to use SkyTemple:

 

1. Yes, the limit is a total of 14 16 color palettes and each 8x8 tiles can only use one palette. SkyTemple has a tool to convert images to this format built-in.

2. Not really any un-reasonable limits with the things you mentioned. Movement speeds can be set anywhere between instant and very very slow.

3. Maps can be bigger, but I don't know what the limit is, it's probably going to be pretty high though. One limit however, is that a map can only contain 1024 unique graphic tiles (tiles can be flipped to have more).

 

If you need more help let me know.

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@Parakoopa ah thanks for the suggestion, I guess I will have to play around with that program before I continue work on the map. I do have one last question though.

Is the map capable of playing animations, and is it hard to make the map animated? I thought there was a part in the game when the map animates, I mean the clouds shove off on the map, so I guess it does, but nothing actively moves. I wont reset my file to investigate and im trying to study parts of the original first.  And now that I asked that question I came up with another one.

Is the map capable of constant animations? can you have an animation looping or is it only one time animations that function? as fun of a concept as it sounds the map screen has never had something like flowing water or swirling whirlpools, I wonder why that is? I'll take a stab and say its incredibly complicated.

 

Thanks for the reply, its a little bit of a downer to see this topic forum quiet for long periods of time. Id like to keep it going.

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Posted (edited)

The map can play three types of animations:

- Animated tiles: 8x8 tiles with multiple images that cycle at a constant rate

- Animated palettes: One of the 14 palettes can be configued to cycle through multiple palettes at a constant rate

- Sprites: On the map scenes sprites for objects can be placed and those sprites can also play animations.

 

The things you mentioned should all be possible. There are maps with flowing water in the game, see Treasure Town, the Sharpedo Bluff or the beach.

 

EDIT: Wait, do you mean the world map screen? The same things apply to it, but I'm not 100% sure how the "cloud reveal" effect works, it seems the game stores multiple versions of that map in the same game map file and switches the camera to the one matching the current story progress.

It should also be possible to change the world map size, because the world map is driven by scripts that can be edited and is itself a map background like any other overworld map, the only thing I'm not sure about if there's a limit on what coordinates the markers are placed.

Edited by Parakoopa

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Yes the wonder map screen, this is my main focus because when I have some interesting looking locations made (which is much easier to be creative with since the smaller details help with getting ideas going), then I'll start working on larger details and towns. 

I dont really have all the terms memorized for the developer sides of things, just been doing some pixel art and studying old posts on this forum as long as I can before all the programming terms get blurred in my mind.

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Alright! Yeah sorry, I just read "creating a map", and my mind immediately went to just any map and not the world map.

I haven't really played around with it too much, but as I said it works mostly like any other game map background and those are at least pretty much fully customizable.
There are a few special things about it, like the markers or how characters are moved on that screen, and I don't know if there's a tool that can actually change the map markers yet.

But again if you have any further questions, I'm happy to help and also investigate :)

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Posted (edited)

Yeah no I need to get more familiar with these terms about how the game works, its all in good faith to tell me I am calling something something wrong. 

But yes, the limits to the world map are something that concern me... If there was an article I could read I about the world map I would have much less questions to ask. but I want to know preeety much everything about the map.

am I limited in colors, size, levels, travel speed, and any other weird things that have limits to them. I would love to have the whole map animated in many spots, but if its limited to one palete, Im scared I may have gone overboard with the size.

And also are the markers really signifigant? Meaning are they required in order to select a level, or are they just some colored spots and something else leads your character to the level areas. 

I have lots more questions about what the map is capable of, but I do want to continue working on the map, not pondering ten thousand questions in my head😅

Edited by Clueless
crossout

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@Parakoopa

I just want to say that this tool has been very helpful in trying to figure out how the game works. I could still use some more pointers though 😅. I figured out how the world map display works for cutscenes (which im sure everyone has known for years idk), just a simple command and number dictates which "quadrant" to display the camera:
    worldmap_SetLevel(number);

and this one seems to toggle map markers in cutscenes:

worldmap_SetMode(number);

I took the script "m05a0202.ssb" in "S01P01A" and changed SetMode from 4 to 3 and 5. This is when Chatot is showing you where the waterfall is at the start of chapter 5. The last two modes show 3 more map markers than mode 4, but I guess thats just the current progress? Some explaining would be appreciated.👍

Im learning how the world map system functions, I just dont know how to put it in proper words, and I havent really found out how to change the cloud reveal scenes. I know that you can just erase and draw the clouds in SkyTemple, but when I export the map scene, turn the rest of the second layer black and import it back in, ST just freezes on me. I must be doing something wrong, Ill probably be asking about importing and exporting pointers in the future.

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Hey! 

Great to hear you made progress! 

I actually haven't really played around with the map myself but I'd also like to find out how it works. Maybe it would be easier to do this more directly together on Discord and also I could have a look at that import bug you are having: https://discord.gg/4e3X36f

The different modes might actually be the different kinds of maps... Isn't there a dedicated map for the future, maybe it's showing those markers instead? The progress should be controlled by the dungeon open list. But maybe the modes also have something to do with it... 

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Well... ok, I'd like that very much, I just dont know if ill be on the same page as you the whole time, Kinda programmer illiterate. And I ran into a few bugs, they were only a few crashes and I think some buttons didnt work, ill show them to you if I can. 

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Posted (edited)

Rowlet_evolved_into_Dartrix.png.5b21a02be1823b1ee9a1217b5cef8554.png

Finally updated the Rowlet-line-in-EoS mod with Dartrix's sprites and portrait. Also added the line's personal items following End45's post regarding item effects.
The issues of Croagunk's shop, the Treasure Chests not being able to give the Rowlet line items, and the Rowlet evos not getting their personal items in Zero Isle Center (like Rowlet does) still need to be addressed.

Regardless, I am quite happy with Dartrix being finally properly added. This time I designed it to be more in line with the other starters' second stages: only the neutral portrait, and no story-specific animations like I did with Rowlet. I find it more natural to start a new game with the latter considering the series' tradition of first stage Pokémon being protagonists (save Pikachu I guess).

Link to the mod and sprites in this previous post.

EDIT: does someone know how to edit a Pokémon's footprint? This surely is a minor issue but it would be a nice detail to add.

Edited by Reimu_needs_$$$

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On 8/28/2020 at 10:16 PM, Reimu_needs_$$$ said:

The issues of Croagunk's shop, the Treasure Chests not being able to give the Rowlet line items, and the Rowlet evos not getting their personal items in Zero Isle Center (like Rowlet does) still need to be addressed.

On 1/1/2020 at 12:37 PM, Reimu_needs_$$$ said:

These additional Pokémon will not appear in any dungeon at the moment as encounters cannot be modified

SkyTemple will soon add support for editing pokémon and item spawns, so you could use it to make Rowlet and its evolutions appear in dungeons. You could also make the evolutionary items spawn on a certain floor of a certain dungeon so they can be obtained. That would surely be much easier than looking for a way to make them appear on Croagunk's shop and inside chests (an ASM patch would be required for that).

On 8/28/2020 at 10:16 PM, Reimu_needs_$$$ said:

does someone know how to edit a Pokémon's footprint? This surely is a minor issue but it would be a nice detail to add

I don't think footprints have been researched so far, so someone would need to find where and how they are stored and then create an editor to change them.

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On 9/3/2020 at 9:23 PM, End45 said:

SkyTemple will soon add support for editing pokémon and item spawns, so you could use it to make Rowlet and its evolutions appear in dungeons. You could also make the evolutionary items spawn on a certain floor of a certain dungeon so they can be obtained. That would surely be much easier than looking for a way to make them appear on Croagunk's shop and inside chests (an ASM patch would be required for that).

That is actually a great idea. Of course, I would still prefer it if the new Pokémon's items received the same treatment as the others, but as a way to "fix" the issue for now I will sure look forward to SkyTemple's development. Croagunk's and chests do seem to be a big deal.

 

On 9/3/2020 at 9:23 PM, End45 said:

I don't think footprints have been researched so far, so someone would need to find where and how they are stored and then create an editor to change them.

Okay, I'll finish all the other stuff then. Thank you for the info, you're always helpful!

 

As for that "other stuff"...

0000.png.bdcc0be315b614b616e4152acff654f2.png0003.png.c249400c44cea252b96d9257c51ce5fc.png0006.png.d2bac7f133e4684e036d2ae97ff72262.png0009.png.3f2fb247be8507c2d15c4244f23997bc.png0012.png.2c7a662b876cc66d5f3309e8606451fa.png

Edited by Reimu_needs_$$$

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Footprints are stored in the GROUND/ folder, and start with "a". You can view them with the sprite editor, but they can't be edited rn. I'm still fixing my code..

There's a specific overlay to run the footprint minigame, so, the data tying everything together are probably in there.

 

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