Side-discussion on 3DS save encryption

[XXASHXX]

I can tell you guys a few things about the 3DS that might help. Please don't count my post as spam. Thanks. First of all the 3DS is very limited to certain things. It will be very hard to bypass the security wall it has. Even harder than the DSL & DSi The reason I say this is because the 3DS is very well built and is a region locked system. I think the creators of X & Y are going to make it nearly impossible to extract files since a lot of the forums are now starting to ban file trading. The ones I know that have it banned are: Pokebeach Serebii I think Bulbagarden does and one other board does as well but forgot which one though. Someone will probably make a new program but chances are it will be pretty hard since the 3DS is well built. Because it can surf the web and do many other things along with a 3DS eshop it will be very difficult with the high security options it has to offer. Just want to give you guys a heads up so you know what is expected. To add to the encryted data it has & it being soley a WPA system for the most part you will have a hard time.

Edited July 11, 2013 by XXASHXX

[evandixon]

We know.

But I'm sure hackers will try anyway. Difficulty just makes the accomplishment more meaningful.

[XXASHXX]

Yeah there is always a back door though. I hope you guys find a way. I just wanted to make sure you guys knew because a lot of boards just started banning file trading in the last 18 months. I remember ehen file traders joined Pokebeach last year and it did not take long for tne mods to ban the use of files, Even cloning with files is banned. Since mods are starting to ban this method of trading chances are the creators will add a blockade to the 6th gen games. They are not even out yet and the PGL is talking about shutting down DW for gen 5 when they have not even tried gen 6 for instance. I doubt they will have a program ready in time for gen 6.

[evandixon]

Most sites ban that kind of thing because it can easily lead to cheating, and they don't want to be a part of it. We have strict rules about cheating while allowing editing.

And yes, there won't be an editor for Gen 6. At least until it's out.

[LEGOanimal22]

Ill try my hardest to crack it. I'll try other games to practice

Edited July 10, 2013 by LEGOanimal22

[XXASHXX]

I think the 3DS has more than 1 barrier. 1st is the encryted barrier and 2nd is the security barrier. You might get past the security barrier but not the encryted barrier. If you manage to get past both you are pretty lucky.

[LEGOanimal22]

What do you mean by barrier?

[evandixon]

Encryption = security. Break the encryption (which is actually illegal by US law, by the way), and you're in.

[Guested]

I've moved several posts to this new thread.

In regards to events, wouldn't we only need to be concerned with the encryption on save files?

[XXASHXX]

Yeah that was what I meant by barrier. Anyway if the creators fix it so barriers can't be broken into what will happen for the site since that is your main area of developement? Also since my threads keep ending up in wrong places what should I do? When I make a thread here I try to put it in the best place that I can think of that will fit. . Guested: Thanks for making a thread but I thought that other thread was for that as well. With a board as big as this one it is hard to determine the right place that fits if you know what I mean. Thanks man.

[evandixon]

You did kinda post in the right place. Kind of off topic, while still relevant to the thread. It just grew so that it deserved its own thread. You're fine.

As for this site, editing and modding of currect games isn't likely to die immediately.

[XXASHXX]

Oh good so I was in the right area. Anyway how would you guys handle trading and getting events if they fix it so you can't extract files? In 4th gen it was pretty much wide open. In 5th gen they tightened things up quite a bit and made it harder to hack check. In 6th gen I have a feeling they will fix it so no one can check anything and it will render previously used programs currently out now either useless or unuseable completely. That includes any future programs that may come out. We need to be aware of this and you guys probably are but if nothing does workout what will happen if worse comes to worst?

[Guested]

Nothing will happen. We will keep on doing what we do. Lots of awesome progress and research is happening in Gen V still.

As for the "event trading" world...

If it is not possible to extract files or clone pkm or anything at all like that, I can tell you that the number of people trading their events away (anywhere, not just here) will be extremely few.

And as for the developers making it impossible to do anything...

Is there any precedent for any kind of further encryption on a game save other than the standard encryption present on every game?

[evandixon]

Games released after the 3DS update 6.0.0 have even more encryption.

http://3dbrew.org/wiki/Savegames

[LEGOanimal22]

Guess we better start studying 3DS cartridges....

[XXASHXX]

I was afraid of that. Time to buy an AR3DS if there is one out and clone that way until you guys can crack the barriers .

[Guest]

Every 3DS game card now comes with a unique encryption key for savegames stored encrypted inside the ROM.

eShop versions are encrypted with a key stored in NAND which as of now is not possible to dump easily either.

Savegame sharing or decryption is just not possible anymore.

[XXASHXX]

Oh great this means unless they know that key the files can't be transferred to PC's. I hope someone can find a way. I will not be doing that but I hope you guys get what you need for 6th gen.

[krskull]

Pardon my ignorance, but with the new feature to back up downloaded games on your 3DS' SD Card, would analyzing the raw game and the backup data have some clue on how to crack the save encryption? Or am I not understanding the procedure properly?

[XXASHXX]

Because of the encrytion the 3DS has and according to everyone here the game cards are encryted which means they have to crack the encrytion key in order to dump the files. Am I wrong or right guys?

[krskull]

Because of the encryption the 3DS has and according to everyone here the game cards are encrypted which means they have to crack the encryption key in order to dump the files. Am I wrong or right guys?

Well, that's the Game Card. What about the Downloaded games from the E-Shop and the option to Back up the game there? Would there be some potential there?

[theSLAYER]

Well, that's the Game Card. What about the Downloaded games from the E-Shop and the option to Back up the game there? Would there be some potential there?

I think the post from Purin above answers your question.

If I remember, every time you "save" for eshop games, there's a unique identifier. If you try to put in yesterday's save to replace a save you just done (on the sd card), it won't load as the identifier is stored on the 3ds.

The only time I got away with backing up 3ds eshop saves is for dream radar (on os 5.x.x)

if you're referring to the eshop app that backs up cart saves,

Afaik it's one way to your eshop games, and the save is deleted from your cart.

[krskull]

I think the post from Purin above answers your question.

If I remember, every time you "save" for eshop games, there's a unique identifier. If you try to put in yesterday's save to replace a save you just done (on the sd card), it won't load as the identifier is stored on the 3ds.

The only time I got away with backing up 3ds eshop saves is for dream radar (on os 5.x.x)

if you're referring to the eshop app that backs up cart saves,

Afaik it's one way to your eshop games, and the save is deleted from your cart.

I was referring to the new feature as of OS 6.00 in which you can back up your downloaded games. My idea is, If we can look at the data backed up from the downloaded copy, and the raw game data on the SD card, that could give some hints for possible Gen VI save editing. And, also because of the ability to restore E-Shop games saves easily, It would make ejecting and re-inserting saves easier. However, I have no idea on the details on the encryption, so this is probably nothing at all.

[Guest]

Pokémon X/Y won't allow for savegame backups, just like any game that is about multiplayer.

And yes, with newer games you can no longer backup and restore an eShop game's savegame file. A hidden value is stored in NAND everytime you save, so the game will know if it's the same savegame file you used last time. If that check failes, the game would delete your savegame competely. I tested this with Animal Crossing New Leaf.

[evandixon]

With cartridges, it works the same way, but the key is on the cartridge.

We may need to wait until we have homebrew before editing can be done.