Languages

[Zafur]

Hey guys, I suck at opening posts, but I'll try.

This thread is for the discussion of languages...Anything from learning them, your opinion on languages, and showing off your polyglot skills.

If you post in another language, I ask that you also translate it into the main language of this forum, which happens to be English.

I'm interested in learning some languages not for the culture, per se, but more for the language itself. I kind of get annoyed when some people presume learning languages is all about the culture... I guess it might be the case for most people, but personally, I don't really need to connect their culture to learning their language. I was wondering if there's any linguistics or polyglots here. Would be interesting. I seem to like the Germanic and Slavic languages, and dislike the Romance languages.

Languages I'm interested in learning:

German - Sounds awesome. <3

Russian - Same as above. Depends who's talking. Other reasons too.

ASL - Talking to people who need to use ASL seems interesting.

Irish (Gaelige/Irish Gaelic) - This is because I'm part Irish, so I might look at taking it up.

Japanese - Yes, this started as an anime thing, but I've actually grown to like the language.

Esperanto - Yes, Esperanto, not Spanish. It's basically a man made language designed to be the international second language. This way everyone keeps their main language but can speak to everyone else in the world by learning only one other. Because of this, it was designed to be much simpler than natural languages and can be learned in a fraction of the time.

Hope to meet more Esperantists or others who are interested about it.

Languages I "have" to learn:

Spanish - School course, I would've taken up ASL, but I was kind of "forced" to choose Spanish. I live in a largely Hispanic/Latino neighbourhood, I'm both part Spaniard and Puerto Rican, but I really dislike this language. Wish I could've learned it when young so I could've gotten it over with. Basically just taken it for the "job opportunities".

Like someone would need another person who could speak Spanish to work for you when probably at least half your employees can already speak it natively... Seems like ASL would be more useful since it's rare.

Final thing is that as always, be civil. You can talk about hating a language as long as it isn't disrespectful.

[wraith89]

Languages I know...

Korean: My main language

English: The language I speak most often I guess

Spanish: Learned a lot but still not exactly fluent with it

French: Almost there...

Japanese: I can only read some, but not exactly speak much

Chinese: See above... but barely qualifies at all >.>

Want to learn:

Hebrew: Ray knows it, why can't I?

Greek: It's awesome... and I think you ought to know why I want to learn Hebrew and Greek

German: It's difficult but sounds interesting...

Russian: I listen to a LOT of Russian songs... and I know Russian Koreans, so...

I guess out of all of them, I know English the most >.>

Edited June 23, 2009 by wraith89

[SilentFox]

Russian- main

English- most used

Spanish- almost

Italian - learning

German- done

And finally

Creole- haitian language .... really dont ask lol

i would like to learn french and dutch for no reason other than ....

my girlfriend is both french and dutch

[damio]

Japanese - Yes, this started as an anime thing, but I've actually grown to like the language.

I want to learn more Japanese.

I started a while back, learned a little, then my school canceled the after-school lessons (I hate the vice-principal for that >.>).

It started as an anime thing too, but I was interested in the language for other reasons too

I've learnt a little Italian, but my teacher sucked. Bad.

She gave us the exact same exam 4 times!

[Greencat]

Cat Language - Fluent

English - Fluent

IDK anything else.

Um, I want to learn French.

[Zafur]

Good to see polyglots here, I'm a bit jealous.

@Damio: Japanese is actually the only Asian language I like. It just sounds... Cute? For girls who speak it, at least. I used to have a few resources I checked out a lot and was able to make simple sentences on my own but I haven't looked at it in ages. @_x You're lucky you even got lessons. Honestly, I think my school should teach Chinese... The school's whole theme is on China.

Greencat: French is a romance language, so I never really liked it too much even though it was never as bad as I thought Spanish was. But I've found some French songs that let me like it a bit more.

[damio]

@damio: Japanese is actually the only Asian language I like. It just sounds... Cute? For girls who speak it, at least. I used to have a few resources I checked out a lot and was able to make simple sentences on my own but I haven't looked at it in ages. @_x You're lucky you even got lessons.

LMFAO!

I can't find any reliable sources of the language online, which sucks.

I want to learn how to speak, read and write Japanese (preferably at least the first two).

It's a beautiful language, and I want to actually be able to understand it >.>

[Jiggy-Ninja]

Culture is important in the sense that certain parts of language are ingrained in cultural patterns, such as clothing. Clothing such as a hakama, kimono and geta don't really have a Western equivalent. (Fun fact: The literal translation of the word kimono means "something to wear") There's also idioms that are important as well, phrases who have more meaning than their words would literally imply.

One Japanese example is juunin toiro, which literally means "10 people, 10 colors". Idiomatically, a comparable English express is "To each, his own."

An interesting article I came across online mentions Ilya Frank's method of learning how to read (not speak or listen to) a language: http://english.franklang.ru/6/ It seems to be a good method, since the whole point of language is to communicate ideas. When a person speaks a sentence, they want to listen to know something they didn't know before, or to solicit information from the listener. Sentences fabricated for the sole use of showing grammar constructs don't really do that.

I never really liked the piece-by-piece method that schools typically use to teach languages. It makes sense in the abstract that you should master one aspect before moving onto the next, but I think it's a discouraging approach. You start so small, and slowly grow, until you think you're at least pretty good. At least, until you get your feet wet with real language. Language that is meant to make a point, ask questions, and to actually have meaning, not showcase vocabulary and grammar. Then there's that whole "Oh shit, I'm way over my head" moment that slaps you down.

In case you couldn't tell from the examples I gave, I'm currently trying to learn Japanese. Because I don't know any place close around here that gives classes on it, I'm self studying it. Through a few different sources I've learned how to read and write kana as well as the basics of grammar (which is so totally backwards from English it's like you have to flip your mind upside down to make sense of it). Though there's still a few grammar issues that I haven't addressed fully yet (namely the difference between ichidan and godan verbs, as well as adjectives and adverbs), most of what's left now is to build up my vocabulary and practice parsing information from written text and spoken speech. For that, there's anime shows, as well as several manga series I've either started buying or plan on buying, namely One Piece, Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist, Death Note, Hayate the Combat Butler, Dragonball, Elfen Lied, and maybe Bokurano. So we'll see how that goes.

[Zafur]

How is that funny? Not the ultra high pitch generic anime girl voice but... Lol.

I'd be happy with speaking it and being able to write/read the hiragana and katakana with the occasional kanji. Kanji sucksss.

I think some of the appeal of languages to me is the "foreign" aspect, and I'm not so sure how actually understanding it would affect it.

@Jiggy-Ninja: I understand the importance of culture in how it affects and morphs a language, and sometimes I find it interesting, but some people just presume that you actually have to be actively interested in their whole culture to even want to learn their language... And some people learn a language just because they like the culture, which is okay I guess, but I don't know. I see culture and language as two separate things with slight overlaps, so I don't see why people make them so connected when they don't need to be.

And I agree completely with the way schools teach languages as sucking hardcore... They don't teach in a way that keeps you interested in learning... Forced learning is never fun. It's useful once in a while, but if it's the only way you're getting your information, it's going to be tiring. My school is odd and it seems like it doesn't even cover grammar... It basically gives you sentences, tells you how to conjugate verbs, and leaves you on your own for the rest of the grammar and wants you to translate paragraphs. I'll end up nothing but a translator from this method. I'm not learning how to build a language from it's roots.

[damio]

I don't intend on learning any Kanji.

Those after school lessons were cancelled because the teacher was "being over-worked", when he wanted to teach them, because the 10 students that actually went, went because they wanted to learn. Not because they were forced to go.

[HottSushiz]

Languages i know:

Tagalog - use to be fluent, but my years from speaking the language it faded away, but I'm still able to understand it very well.

Spanish - semi, i learned it at school, so I'm meh.

French - I chose it as an option, i was fluent but it's been a year since I've spoken the language.

Maori - I'm currently taking the class, and I'm horrible at it, the only reason i took Maori was because my friend told me it was a VERY laid back class, and we it's quite often we take free period, although when we do do work, (LOL Do do) i just fail, even when i copy down all the work, and such.

[Jiggy-Ninja]

How is that funny? Not the ultra high pitch generic anime girl voice but... Lol.

I'd be happy with speaking it and being able to write/read the hiragana and katakana with the occasional kanji. Kanji sucksss.

I think some of the appeal of languages to me is the "foreign" aspect, and I'm not so sure how actually understanding it would affect it.

@Jiggy-Ninja: I understand the importance of culture in how it affects and morphs a language, and sometimes I find it interesting, but some people just presume that you actually have to be actively interested in their whole culture to even want to learn their language... And some people learn a language just because they like the culture, which is okay I guess, but I don't know. I see culture and language as two separate things with slight overlaps, so I don't see why people make them so connected when they don't need to be.

And I agree completely with the way schools teach languages as sucking hardcore... They don't teach in a way that keeps you interested in learning... Forced learning is never fun. It's useful once in a while, but if it's the only way you're getting your information, it's going to be tiring. My school is odd and it seems like it doesn't even cover grammar... It basically gives you sentences, tells you how to conjugate verbs, and leaves you on your own for the rest of the grammar and wants you to translate paragraphs. I'll end up nothing but a translator from this method. I'm not learning how to build a language from it's roots.

Gah, I hate high pitched, screechy voices! Let me hear something nice, deep, and soothing any day.

Well, I did choose to learn Japanese out of interest in their culture, but yeah, you don't need to know everything.

I draw a distinction between "teaching" and "learning". "Teaching" is the process of pushing information out towards a student. "Learning" is the act of a student pulling that information into themselves. Learning is extremely fun, being taught to sucks usually.

If I don't want to learn about something, I really don't want to be taught it. That's one of the main reasons I'm so reluctant to go to college.

I don't intend on learning any Kanji.

Those after school lessons were cancelled because the teacher was "being over-worked", when he wanted to teach them, because the 10 students that actually went, went because they wanted to learn. Not because they were forced to go.

If you ever want to read anything higher than kid's books, you'll need to learn Kanji. Furigana isn't everywhere.

I love being the person that holds the class up with endless questions. My German teacher got so frustrated with it one day (in a good way, she's nice) that she gave me a reference book to read.

On top of that, she graded on a curve (pretty stupid, imo), so I always loved seeing the classes reactions when I aced a test/quiz and she couldn't curve it.

Oh, funny story. On a quiz, we had to translate the word "kommen", which means "to come". My brain however, was in German spelling mode, not English spelling mode, so I accidentally wrote "to cum". >.<

I swear on my mother's future grave that dirty thoughts were the furthest thing from my mind that day, seriously.

[xorhash]

Native: (Swiss) German

Learning (Decent results): English

Learning (Not-so-great results): French

Want to learn: Maybe Japanese, possibly Lojban, but there's nothing I'd really want to learn right now.

[Endless Eden]

I SPEAK IRISH!!!!!

Conas ta tu? is mise clintun ta me go math is mise as eireann

had to go to an irish school were we chould not speak english....we still did it though...

i speak english to obviously (irish being a dying language )

and i did do french for 3 year's but i was awful and don't remember any of it not one word.

The irish above i have my real name but none of you speak irish so...... :tongue:

[Akaria]

Used to do French in school, I can still vaguely understand conversations to some extent, but if I were to speak it, no thank you.

Past few months I have been having Japanese lessons from a friend of ours who was born and lived in Osaka, while she isn't a tutor herself she wants to help, plus it means she doesn't want paid for it. I've had exams in the way lately so I haven't been able to practice but I'm sure I will find time before I move in August to see and her and say hello.

[Arqui]

Hum...

Spanish: Main

English: I use it so much, but I have to improve it.

French: I'm learning at school, but I don't like it.

Japanese: I love it ^^ I'm learning it. Currently, I can read japanese characters, but I'm not able to make a sentence. I'd like to travel to Japan.

That's all. Right now, I just want to improve my English, to get to express myself correctly.

[Zafur]

Gah, I hate high pitched, screechy voices! Let me hear something nice, deep, and soothing any day.

For "deep and soothing", I like German to fill that role. This might sound odd but I really love Scar singing "Seid Bereit" in... a movie. What better way to practice a language than look up translations in childhood movies?

I like the style of teaching where it's indirect, and the student needs to draw conclusions from simple things, but at the end there's clarification on grammar and such. Such as looking through pictures that are labeled with the nouns, and progresses to sentences describing what people are doing. So you eventually go from " A man" to " The man is driving his red car." For beginning with the language, anyways.

*snicker* I await the day I confuse German und and English.

@CuleX: Native German and you're thinking of Lojban? Why Lojban?

@Telos: Yes, it's kinda sad it's a dying language, one of the reasons I want to learn it... Now I know who to bug if I ever take up the language. :wink:

Although, I said in my first post for you to translate anything not in English. You could paraphrase it to not include your name, perhaps?

[Endless Eden]

Oop's sorry i forgot here,

"Conas ta tu? is mise clintun agus ta me go math is mise as eireann"

the translation being,

"How are you? i am *my name* and i am fine i am from ireland"

[Zafur]

Ohh. Interesting. Thanks. How does spoken Irish sound like? Can't really find too many sources on that.><

[Endless Eden]

Try youtube to see are there any video's of people speaking irish.

Hhmm how to describe it......I suppose it is kinda like french only a lot of the word's sound the same.

example's whould be

ceannaigh = buy

Maraigh = kill/slay

cabhraigh = help/to help

they all end in "igh" there are many word's like this that all have the same 3 letter's at the end.

[evandixon]

Known Languages:

English

VB.Net

SQL

HTML

CSS

ASP.Net

Wanted Languages:

French

C/C++

Languages I don't want to know:

PHP

Swaheli (if that's how it's spelled)

Esperanto

Languages I have no opinion on:

Cat Language

[xorhash]

@CuleX: Native German and you're thinking of Lojban? Why Lojban?

I always searched for a very logical language. Lojban seems to fit that role quite well.

[Zafur]

I might check youtube later.

Swahili I think?

I've never checked Lojban. I've always heard of it as more complicated than Esperanto.

[ParaDoX65]

My turn

English is my primary

Spanish just from school courses (not exactly fluent with it but I read and write some things. Speaking it is another deal >.>)

igpay atinlay? oesday itay ountcay?

^------(pig latin, it is easier spoken than written )

[Jiggy-Ninja]

Learning (Decent results): English

"Decent results" isn't giving yourself enough credit. Like I said on IRC, I didn't even know you weren't native.

For "deep and soothing", I like German to fill that role. This might sound odd but I really love Scar singing "Seid Bereit" in... a movie. What better way to practice a language than look up translations in childhood movies?

"Be Prepared" is my favorite song from "The Lion King", hands down.

You're talking to a guy that watched "Spongebob" and "Golden Girls". Trust me, I don't think it's odd.

I like the style of teaching where it's indirect, and the student needs to draw conclusions from simple things, but at the end there's clarification on grammar and such. Such as looking through pictures that are labeled with the nouns, and progresses to sentences describing what people are doing. So you eventually go from " A man" to " The man is driving his red car." For beginning with the language, anyways.

Basically, that's Rosetta Stone's methodology in a nutshell.

Though for material, I don't think it should start simple. Go big or go home. One problem I see with language teaching is that it typically gets student used to thinking too simply about how words relate to other words. Language is infinitely extensible, and some very complex phrases can be made. Compare "My name is Mark", a typical sentence you are introduced to early in any language learning plan, to "Based on extensive and systematic analylis of the evidence that was presented to me by Officer Thompson of the C.L.U.E. policy agency, it is my conclusion that the crime currently under investigation by Inspector Gadget was commited by Colonel Mustard, in the Dining Hall, with the candlestick for the purpose of avenging the wrongful death of his brother, who died when struck in a hit-and-run accident by a car driven by Professor Plum, who was drunk at the time."

The second sentence requires complex parsing of various phrases on multiple levels, and to combine various phrases together in a fractal-like pattern. It's not something you learn to deal with at all with stupid stuff like "I kicked the ball" or "Timmy gave me a present".

Obviously, you shouldn't start with sentences such as that, but starting right away with complex stuff like that would go a long way, I think, to keep people thinking correctly about language. Or rather, not thinking about language and having it happen naturally.

So instead of starting with "I played a game", start with "I played a game that one of my friends made up yesterday" or something like that.