Creation of the universe: Darwin or Bible

[Zafur]

Hmm. Some comedy relief for the time being.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k138/Clayton_n/OtakuC_004_PSA.jpg

Edit: Some minor blood. Just thought I'd warn ya if you have people looking over your shoulders.

[pokemonfan]

lol zafur that was a good comedy relief...getting a cat to evolve...uh how silly.

Kuoleva...

The battle's already won. God's victory has happened. That night when jesus was crucified the demons all threw a party! Satan wasn't at ease (I'm getting this from a song but its in the bible too) then when he rose again to forgive us of all of our sins he won. God won...we've won already its best to just go on the winning side. Why we're still here...quite frankly I have no idea. If I had all the answers then I'd be up in heaven calling the shots but I dont. There are somethings that even the Son of God doesn't know. Jesus doesn't know when the final day is coming only God knows. (They're the same people though..I dont get that part ) So...I cant exactly answer your question but there is a reason everything has a reason.

--that's all I have to say for now...except..yay woot! Wraith89's back! I am persuasive! Woot!

Edit:

Total ownage! Does this qualify for evidence?

[wraith89]

I'm not exactly back PF, and kuo, that representation is quite unfair. I could easily reverse that and say that's how it really is. There is no concrete evidence for macroevolution as far as I'm concerned, for the "evidences" are usually easily skewed to fit the theory rather than to fit the facts, or those evidence can also prove the case of a common Creator... all you see people saying is "I believe in evolution". I wonder what that means...

Truth is so much more stranger than fiction.

[pokemonfan]

At least I got you to post. You said you wanted nothing more to do with this thread. you have a good point...truth is often more strange then fiction. That's because its God's magnificent creation...

_______________________

Wraith89 was here..I'm tracking him and his ghostly invisibleness. If you want to help join the ghostbusters group...no this is not part of my sig...I wish it could be...

[Enkidu]

There is no concrete evidence for macroevolution as far as I'm concerned, for the "evidences" are usually easily skewed to fit the theory rather than to fit the facts, or those evidence can also prove the case of a common Creator

Evidence as far as your concerned has no weight on what actual evidence there is. Great, your opinion is wonderful. But thats not disproving the evidence we have, it's you talking like you already know the answer. Not to mention you are twisting the theory of Evolution to fit your obvious bias's and misconceptions of it. If as you say All Christians do not represent Christianity, All atheists in a similar fashion do not represent Evolution. And it is hypocritical to think otherwise.

The bolded part is even more true for any religion or faith based group by the way.

Second off, in the book of Job ( Jo-ub ) the point of Job suffering was that God wanted to show that misfortune in the finite world could not shake the faith job had in god, that is the absolute in the infinite realm of the soul, as oppose to the realm of the spirit ( the latter being the man made egocentric psychology -esque moral society we currently reside, that holds itself up on self collapsing/unstable character issues, for lack of a better word ) based. This leads into an entire discussion about infinite resignation and faith in the face of doubt that I would , again, rather not get into. Also Satan isn't asking for permission, he is waging war against god, and making a bet with him over job.

God will always have control over the outcome of evil actions for the sake of his servants. What Satan intends for evil, God uses for good (in the case of Job, God rewarded Job for his faithfulness and made his later life more blessed and fruitful than his past

I think your leaving out the part where god killed his family and took away any wealth he had, only to give him a new family later on after suffering worse than hell to any living man simply to prove a despicable creature wrong on humans ability to will faith in the face of doubt.

[Zafur]

"There are some similarities between birds and dinosaurs, and it is possible, they said, that birds and dinosaurs may have shared a common ancestor, such as the small, reptilian "thecodonts," which may then have evolved on separate evolutionary paths into birds, crocodiles and dinosaurs. The lung structure and physiology of crocodiles, in fact, is much more similar to dinosaurs than it is to birds.

"We aren't suggesting that dinosaurs and birds may not have had a common ancestor somewhere in the distant past," Quick said. "That's quite possible and is routinely found in evolution. It just seems pretty clear now that birds were evolving all along on their own and did not descend directly from the theropod dinosaurs, which lived many millions of years later.""

So evidence has shown that they did not evolve from theropods but they still think there's a common ancestor. I was not aware of the fact that fossils of birds were found before the period of dinosaurs. I don't think I would've brought it up if I had. If there wasn't I would bring up that it's possible that the lungs evolved and such during transition, but it seems pointless with fossil evidence indicating otherwise.

This is the type of evidence most people have been asking for, nice one, Pokemonfan.

For the comic though, Scientific evolution isn't the same as the evolution in Pokémon. :wink: (Ignoring the fact that domesticated pet cats are well... domesticated from wild cats lol.) Someone needs to explain the difference to that kid lol. I just found it again and practically face palmed at the irony and had to post it here.

The mystery of the Holy Trinity isn't that hard for me to understand... Not saying I understand it fully, as it IS a mystery, but some recent events had made it easier for me to understand things like that. Possible that God the Father has a sort of one sided link with Jesus and controls the information that passes through them, if Jesus really doesn't know what God knows.

Slightly off topic, but does anyone else besides me get annoyed at saying "Holy Ghost"? The Holy Spirit isn't the soul of a dead guy that's stuck on Earth.O-o

[pokemonfan]

Well isn't a drifting spirit a ghost? I have no problem saying it. I just skimmed what you guys said so that's all for now.

[Okami]

Nawww....that cat is SO CUTE. *fangirls over the kitty* Not that anyone in my house minds me looking at bloody things, heck, I read online scans of Monster. That's just about the bloodiest manga I've ever read (Well...no, Wolf's Rain comes in a pretty close second for being two volumes)

I feel...sort of ignored to my past few posts

[kuoleva]

l

Kuoleva...

The battle's already won. God's victory has happened. That night when jesus was crucified the demons all threw a party! Satan wasn't at ease (I'm getting this from a song but its in the bible too) then when he rose again to forgive us of all of our sins he won. God won...we've won already its best to just go on the winning side. Why we're still here...quite frankly I have no idea. If I had all the answers then I'd be up in heaven calling the shots but I dont. There are somethings that even the Son of God doesn't know. Jesus doesn't know when the final day is coming only God knows. (They're the same people though..I dont get that part ) So...I cant exactly answer your question but there is a reason everything has a reason.

See, even you don't get it. o_O;;; Oh well.

Edit:

Total ownage! Does this qualify for evidence?

"We aren't suggesting that dinosaurs and birds may not have had a common ancestor somewhere in the distant past," Quick said. "That's quite possible and is routinely found in evolution. It just seems pretty clear now that birds were evolving all along on their own and did not descend directly from the theropod dinosaurs, which lived many millions of years later."

Lolwut? Methinks you just read the title. >_>;

and kuo, that representation is quite unfair.

Meaning you can't think of a rebuttal? I don't see how it's unfair. Just because you can't come up with an answer, doesn't make it unfair. <_<

I hate that. If Christians make fun of Darwinists/Evolutionists, it's perfectly fine. But if Evolutionists make fun of Christians, it's discrimination.

[Okami]

^ But they're saying that birds did not come from dinosaurs, which dispels part of the myth that evolution has been trying to reputable about: that birds evolved from dinosaurs. What I see it as is that they're saying that birds were always birds, and have evolved down the line to make other sorts of birds.

[Zafur]

It's saying that it's possible they share a common ancestor and not directly from dinosaurs... Like.... WURMPLE

Wurmple-> Cascoon or Silcoon> Dustox and Beautifly.

Pre-dino Reptilian > Dinosaur or Bird ancestor> Modern lizards and Modern Birds.

A ghost is the soul of a dead person. I consider spirits and ghosts different. They get used interchangeably in media a lot, though. Spirits are almost the same, except they were never "alive", in fiction and stuff anyways. Kinda like not differentiating between legless lizards and snakes. Similar, yet different.

Also, because of the definition of ghosts as dead peoples' souls, that says that the Holy Spirit is human, when only Jesus is supposed to be.

Hey wait. Legless lizards and snakes can be evidence of a common ancestor. Ironic rofl.

@Okami: Yeah, I just put the warning since well, people seemed squeamish earlier and wasn't sure how they'd react to bloody animal fighting... Then again, this IS a Pokémon fan site.

I've started the anime a while ago, of Wolf's Rain... Got to about episode 7...

[Turtlekid2]

Meaning you can't think of a rebuttal? I don't see how it's unfair. Just because you can't come up with an answer, doesn't make it unfair. <_<

I hate that. If Christians make fun of Darwinists/Evolutionists, it's perfectly fine. But if Evolutionists make fun of Christians, it's discrimination.

No one has made fun of anyone in this thread except you.

[randomspot555]

And Hinduism = monotheism?

That's not according to Darwin. That's the religion itself. Many sects of Hinduism are monotheistic, but unlike Western religions they don't put much emphasis on it. There are sects that range from polytheism to atheism, but to class all Hindus as X or Y-ism is a simplification

Of course sects of Judaism look at Christianity and consider it Polytheistic due to the Holy Trinity, and CAtholicism doubly so due to the Saints.

But if you look at it from a theological perspective rather than a Judeo-Christian perspective, you'll find that monotheism and Hinduism are compatible.

[Kevin Evans]

IMO, I'd believe proven science rather than pseudo science... kkthx bai

[wraith89]

That's not according to Darwin. That's the religion itself. Many sects of Hinduism are monotheistic, but unlike Western religions they don't put much emphasis on it. There are sects that range from polytheism to atheism, but to class all Hindus as X or Y-ism is a simplification

Of course sects of Judaism look at Christianity and consider it Polytheistic due to the Holy Trinity, and CAtholicism doubly so due to the Saints.

But if you look at it from a theological perspective rather than a Judeo-Christian perspective, you'll find that monotheism and Hinduism are compatible.

Not Darwin, randomspot, Dawkins.

Yeah, the names sound similar, sorry about that.

And kevin... what? That post was, like, entirely useless

[Kevin Evans]

Not Darwin, randomspot, Dawkins.

Yeah, the names sound similar, sorry about that.

And kevin... what? That post was, like, entirely useless

Meh... i'm saying Darwinism (or however it's spelled) seems more reasonable than Creationism, since it was based on science...

[Illithian]

Meh... i'm saying Darwinism (or however it's spelled) seems more reasonable than Creationism, since it was based on science...

(I can't believe I'm saying this) Well, Darwinism (which, btw, shouldn't be a "religion") has about as many holes as the bible does, so either way is entirely plausible. Not that it isn't accepted by the worldwide scientific community and backed up by hundreds of fossils; there are other explanations that are quite possible, and we can't prove it either way with our limited fossil record and the amount of changes likely to incur from either way.

[Greencat]

I belive in darwins theory to a certain extent. There's fossils to prove prehistoric creatures, however, I think God made people in the middle and somehow made them have 99% of their genes similar to other primates.

[Zafur]

You don't want to believe you came from the same place as other primates did?

[Kevin Evans]

You don't want to believe you came from the same place as other primates did?

It seems more reasonable than a 'thing' bringing me to Earth.

[Greencat]

God isn't a thing.

[kelton_compton]

Lol, such an interesting topic....

Well, I honestly don't really care how humans came to be here on our planet Earth, to me, all that matters is that we are here now. I would be a little more worried about whats going to happen to the planet now that we have been using its resources at such an alarming pace. Granted, it probably won't be during my lifetime, but whats going to happen once we suck the planet dry of all it has to offer? :biggrin:

[Nabarl sent out Mew!!!]

Bible.

God created the heavens and the stars. Earth was just one part.

What strikes me is, why can only earth support life?

[randomspot555]

Bible.

God created the heavens and the stars. Earth was just one part.

Somehow I find it hard to believe that Creationism happened as it is written. Hell, I have trouble believing that Genesis, as is, is the actual story. Considering the:

Decades/100s of years/1000s of years passed down via word of mouth, then written, then translated into various languages numerous times an certainly not always from the same original source, stuff is bound to get lost.

There's a reason I've always heard it called the Creation Story. Because it's a story meant to be told so we can understand God creating, because God himself isn't something that can be written and thought about in the limited human mind and vocabulary. And by that extent, describing His actions even more so.

What strikes me is, why can only earth support life?

Who said that? As we learn more about, not only our galaxy, but solar system and the universe, we're finding evidence that other places have some of the elements that we've found necessary for life. In some cases, in the past, and other times, those elements are still around so life is still possible.

That doesn't necessarily mean it'll be INTELLIGENT life. Discovering plant life would be MIND BLOWING. The more realistic discovery is microscopic organisms.

Venus and Mars have been popular candidates for "used to have life" for a long time. They're our "next door neighbors" so they're close enough to the Sun. The gravitational pull is about the same. Evidence suggests that they weren't ALWAYS the barren wastelands they currently are, and recent expeditions to Mars not only suggests fresh water is frozen somewhere, but might've had flowing water as little as 10 years ago.

Other popular candidates are usually moons of Saturn and Jupiter, particularly Europa. Europa is unique because it's surface is entirely frozen, and it's hypothesized that it could be an ocean underneath it. Europa has also been the subject of several works of science fiction.

[Turtlekid2]

Decades/100s of years/1000s of years passed down via word of mouth, then written, then translated into various languages numerous times an certainly not always from the same original source, stuff is bound to get lost.

Well, you have to keep in mind that the first Christians/monks/people who copied the Bible were extremely meticulous about copying down the exact text of the source; heheh, you might even say they were religious about it. It was, after all, their whole life. The number of mistakes they made were minimal.

There's a reason I've always heard it called the Creation Story. Because it's a story meant to be told so we can understand God creating, because God himself isn't something that can be written and thought about in the limited human mind and vocabulary. And by that extent, describing His actions even more so.

You're absolutely right. That's why God inspired the biblical authors directly instead of letting them try to write the Scripture on their own.