Flaming Other Pokémon Fansites

[fenzo666]

It has come to the attention of the Project Pokémon Team that many forum members have been making slanderous remarks regarding other Pokémon fansites; more specifically Serebii. We kindly ask that all members refrain from flaming these other fansites. As such, one of our rules (http://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279) have been modified:

Be considerate of other members and Pokémon fansites.
This encompasses many of our rules. Specifically, do not offend other members and/or Pokémon fansites in the IRC or forums. Do not flame or write slanderous comments regarding any other websites and/or members. Keep in mind that CAPS LOCK is generally considered shouting and should only be used accordingly. You will be penalized if you do not follow these rules.

Project Pokémon would like to maintain a healthy relationship with all other fansites and this is only possible with the cooperation of our members. As stated above, anyone not willing to cooperate will be punished. Thanks for reading and abide by the rules.

[Guested]

I'll... do my best to restrain my ... feelings.

[randomspot555]

I just did a search for "Serebii" and didn't see any problems, except for some discussion in the Wiki sub-forum, and that was only from like one poster. Is there a certain post/thread/whatever that bought this to attention?

Not that I don't agree with the rule. I do. We should be respectful to other websites. Give credit where credit is due, and all that good stuff.

[wraith89]

Indeed randomspot. Flootenkerp told me that it had something to do with the IRC though. And bashing other sites won't help this community be productive anyhow. We would like to retain a good relationship with the other communities, yes?

[Kaarosu]

This came to be as far as I know, because Floot and a couple of other members in the IRC wanting to go do a spam attack in Serebii's IRC channel using the excuses of it being 'fun' and whatever.

[randomspot555]

This came to be as far as I know, because Floot and a couple of other members in the IRC wanting to go do a spam attack in Serebii's IRC channel using the excuses of it being 'fun' and whatever.

Well, it's good to know the origins of this. I do fully agree with it, and if any immature crap like that does happen, we can safely say that it wasn't supported by PP.

[SCV]

I just did a search for "Serebii" and didn't see any problems, except for some discussion in the Wiki sub-forum, and that was only from like one poster. Is there a certain post/thread/whatever that bought this to attention?

Not that I don't agree with the rule. I do. We should be respectful to other websites. Give credit where credit is due, and all that good stuff.
Well, some of us have edited some of the comments so most problems are not visible.

[FLOOTENKERP]

We didn't go through with it, and it really wouldn't have done much to the site except annoy them for 3 seconds. They have a script that makes it so you can't repeat something more then 3 times. But me and Narwhal didn't do it, and we don't intend t in the future. sorry it had to go that far, it won't happen again.

[pokemonfan]

Sorry about that...honestly I dont even know why I dislike serebii I use them all the time I just dont like to.

[Fallen]

Your feelings are your feelings. We are in no way, shape or form trying to change them. You may say what you will about any other fansite, including ours, if you want; just not on our forum or IRC channel.

[HottSushiz]

I always found it pointless flaming at them, i mean there information is exactly the same to different Pokemon sites, like Marilland, and even here.

I always thought soon there a rule will be created to forbid the action, one more thing, who makes the rules? they seem so honorable and literate.

[Varna]

Flaming other sites? Do some people really have that much free time and so little to do? =\

+1 to supporting this rule, though it's sad that it's even needed.

[Okami]

It kind of reminds me of that saying...'If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.' Of course, I break that all the time, so who am I to speak? </hypocrite>

[Neo]

I have noticed this on the Wiki Contributers group with pokefan saying never ever use serebii no offense to you pokefan :D

[ocwil]

why don't use serebii?
i use it all the time
ow and regarding the new rule totally agree +1

[Narwhal]

If I did do this before the rule was established, would I get an infraction? After all, I wouldn't have known that I couldn't.

[FLOOTENKERP]

why don't use serebii?
i use it all the time
ow and regarding the new rule totally agree +1
They have some wrong information. We get our information from reliable sources.


If I did do this before the rule was established, would I get an infraction? After all, I wouldn't have known that I couldn't.
New rules don't affect what you do in the past. Don't do it again and you'll be fine.

[Narwhal]

Okay, thanks Floot.
I would like to say that I am sincerely sorry for my actions to all of the IRC and Forum Administrators.

[damio]

why don't use serebii?
i use it all the time
ow and regarding the new rule totally agree +1
Because we want to gather the information ourselves, and not copy other people.
Serebii, like any one else, occasionally has errors. We do not want to copy these errors onto our website.

I also support this rule, as some other pokemon websites do not deserve the harsh comments other members give them.

[FLOOTENKERP]

Well, a bad site should be criticized. I like this new rule, but it specifically doesn't mean we can't talk about the flaws about the other site, does it? I don't know when a conversation like that would come up, but if one did, as long as the posts are respectful and not baging on the site but merely talking about it, would that be fine?

[wraith89]

Well, a bad site should be criticized. I like this new rule, but it specifically doesn't mean we can't talk about the flaws about the other site, does it? I don't know when a conversation like that would come up, but if one did, as long as the posts are respectful and not baging on the site but merely talking about it, would that be fine?

But there's something called respect, as you have pointed out. It's pretty hard to not bash a community with little respect for it.

[Umbreon]

This is a good rule. There are plenty of people on some other sites with bad things to say about this place so we don't need to go down to their level.

I will say I like certain sites more than others. Some have forums that are easier to use than others but I think it is pointless to trash talk another place.

It is best not just for Project Pokemon but for all the other fan sites to get along.

[pokemonfan]

If I did do this before the rule was established, would I get an infraction? After all, I wouldn't have known that I couldn't.

This site was established in the USA right? If not then just disregard the post.
I'm almost positive the site was established in the USA and therefore abides by there rules.

Well, in the united states amendments or something like that you can not be punished for an act you committed before there was a law against that act. So in this case legally you are protected :tongue: but of course I doubt the fair administration of the site would infract you for something like that before there was a rule. I'd be shocked if you got infracted for it (I'd have to be too if they infracted you)

[wraith89]

This site was established in the USA right? If not then just disregard the post.
I'm almost positive the site was established in the USA and therefore abides by there rules.

Well, in the united states amendments or something like that you can not be punished for an act you committed before there was a law against that act. So in this case legally you are protected :tongue: but of course I doubt the fair administration of the site would infract you for something like that before there was a rule. I'd be shocked if you got infracted for it (I'd have to be too if they infracted you)


Abide by United States laws when on this site.
Project Pokémon is hosted in the US, and as such all material on it must abide by US laws. This means you cannot upload or link to pirated material (copyrighted material which you do not have the rights to distribute). If you mention having a ROM in any of your posts, we will assume that you backed it up from a retail cartridge that you own. If we have reason to believe that that is not the case, any offending posts will be removed and the poster will face consequences as detailed below. By extension this means there should be absolutely no discussion of pre-release leaked ROMs or Pokémon distribution ROMs as there is no legal way to obtain one. Should you need to share an edited ROM with others, you must use a patch file; linking to or uploading a ROM, even if it has been edited, is strictly forbidden.


SOURCE: http://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279

[SerebiiNet]

They have some wrong information. We get our information from reliable sources

This sort of statement is part of the problem. By saying that, you are inferring that my site does not utilise reliable sources, which we most certainly do, that is how my site became the most popular one. If I didn't have reliable sources and reliable information, people would not go to my site.

Yes there may be a couple of errors here and there, but if you point them out, I'll fix it. Just moaning that there are errors is not what can be called as helpful.

[Guested]

By saying that, you are inferring that my site does not utilise reliable sources...

Technically he's implying and YOU'RE inferring.

But you don't want me to get technical or we'll be here all night.

[FLOOTENKERP]

This sort of statement is part of the problem. By saying that, you are inferring that my site does not utilise reliable sources, which we most certainly do, that is how my site became the most popular one. If I didn't have reliable sources and reliable information, people would not go to my site.

Yes there may be a couple of errors here and there, but if you point them out, I'll fix it. Just moaning that there are errors is not what can be called as helpful.
They may seem minor errors to you, but you aren't the person who spent days trying to find a Munchlax in a honey tree, making me believe I had a 1% chance too. One error is to many. If you want the respect of most of these members, try making sure you have right information before putting on your site, because a minor error on your site can have a drastic affect on what a person wastes their time doing. I don't believe you are the real Serebii anyway.

[SCV]

This sort of statement is part of the problem. By saying that, you are inferring that my site does not utilise reliable sources, which we most certainly do, that is how my site became the most popular one. If I didn't have reliable sources and reliable information, people would not go to my site.

Yes there may be a couple of errors here and there, but if you point them out, I'll fix it. Just moaning that there are errors is not what can be called as helpful.
Well, Flootenkerp is stating a fact, i.e., its not slander if its true. As much as you think your sources are reliable, not all of them are.

I know you probably don't go to your debate forum much. But if you were to put this up there, your argument is full of fallacies.
Whether your new information is reliable has nothing to do with whether your site is popular. Maybe you had only reliable sources at some point and that made it get popular. You will continue to be popular until another site comes with more reliable information and more reliable sources and people start noticing that. By the time DP came out your site was already popular. People take what you say on faith. I would like to point at this post from pojo: http://www.pojo.biz/board/showpost.php?p=11640160&postcount=5

People assume you have reliable information from reliable sources and by putting blatantly false information you are doing a disservice to the community. Its much better to say "At this time we don't know how _____ works".

Also the fix you made does not do jutice to the complexity of honey tree pokemon, but at least it does not have false information now, which is the important thing. Better to have too little information, instead of alot of false information.

Now, you should take what Flootenkerp is saying as a wake up call. Not as some sort of insult. He did not say it in an insulting manner (I have seen many statements by him and trust me he put this very nicely). If someone says that not all your sources are reliable, then you have to think about who are your sources and figure out how to address the issue, so it does not continue happening. Of course, you have to ask yourself, who is saying that as well and what is their reason. But when you have a reliable source and people from his site saying that you have some unreliable sources, you should take a hint. (I consider myself a reliable source to Serebii.net :))

Don't just take it on faith that your sources are reliable. Although I can see where that can get hard to do, because there is some information which you would have a very hard time verifying. In particular verifying the munchlax honey tree mechanics can be a bit difficult for someone who does not have the technical skill that me an Sabresite have. But as the owner of a site that claims to have correct information its up to you to address the issue. It can be as simple as not taking any more information from the person who told you that it was 1% at each tree. Or maybe your solution can be more complicated I don't know.

[FLOOTENKERP]

Thank you SCV. Serebii, the only reason I come here is because they don't lie to us. They tell us good information, and when they have had wrong information, they admit it. You're priority is to be popular, while this site is to give us legal events and good information. Maybe you should not only fix the errors you currently have, but should make sure to prevent similar errors in the future. And really, we don't have to point out the errors. Asking us to tell you the errors implies you don't test out or make sure of anything so you make sure its correct. If you really payed attention to what you put on the site, and if it really mattered to you, you wouldn't need us to point out the flaws. Just improve your site, and for the love of God fix that Pichu translation. It's jagged, not notched. There, I pointed out an error. Go fix the rest.

[evandixon]

If I did do this before the rule was established, would I get an infraction? After all, I wouldn't have known that I couldn't.
Common Sense, anyone?

This sort of statement is part of the problem. By saying that, you are inferring that my site does not utilise reliable sources, which we most certainly do, that is how my site became the most popular one. If I didn't have reliable sources and reliable information, people would not go to my site.

Yes there may be a couple of errors here and there, but if you point them out, I'll fix it. Just moaning that there are errors is not what can be called as helpful.
The only errors I can think of are outdated infromation for some of the video games (MD Explorers of the Sky hasn't been released yet aquording to your site), and the dis-ability to right-click and select with the cursor, which I found a way around, and I can even put it up for download!

[randomspot555]

While I can't verify that SerebiiNet is in fact Joe, I can at least say the IP originates from the UK.

[Poryhack]

It's the real Serebii, 'nuff said.


...and the dis-ability to right-click and select with the cursor, which I found a way around, and I can even put it up for download!
I'm pretty sure that's intentional, considering he's using Javascript that does explicitly that.

[evandixon]

I'm pretty sure that's intentional, considering he's using Javascript that does explicitly that.
Either way, it's annoying.

[randomspot555]

I'd like to ask that discussion of websites be taken away from the thread. I don't want to delete the posts, because they're pretty decent/good posts, just kind of off topic. Discussion is welcome, but not here.

Maybe in the "Pokemon Franchise" forum in a new thread? Feel free to start it, if you like.

[SerebiiNet]

They may seem minor errors to you, but you aren't the person who spent days trying to find a Munchlax in a honey tree, making me believe I had a 1% chance too. One error is to many. If you want the respect of most of these members, try making sure you have right information before putting on your site, because a minor error on your site can have a drastic affect on what a person wastes their time doing. I don't believe you are the real Serebii anyway.

Yes there was an error. However, instead of letting me know there was an error, you just sat here and bitched about it. That isn't helpful in any sense of the word. Also, as much as you'd like to think one error is too many, everywhere has errors. Get over it.


Well, Flootenkerp is stating a fact, i.e., its not slander if its true. As much as you think your sources are reliable, not all of them are.

No SCV, all my sources ARE reliable


Whether your new information is reliable has nothing to do with whether your site is popular. Maybe you had only reliable sources at some point and that made it get popular. You will continue to be popular until another site comes with more reliable information and more reliable sources and people start noticing that. By the time DP came out your site was already popular. People take what you say on faith. I would like to point at this post from pojo: http://www.pojo.biz/board/showpost.php?p=11640160&postcount=5

Actually, the fact I have reliable sources IS why my site's popular. As I said, if I didn't, people would not give my site a second look. Yes there was an error, but as I said before, just saying "Oh there's an error" and pointlessly pointing and insulting because of it is not helpful by any sense of the word. I needed to be told there was an error, I'm not omnipresent or omnipotent afterall


People assume you have reliable information from reliable sources and by putting blatantly false information you are doing a disservice to the community. Its much better to say "At this time we don't know how _____ works".

It wasn't "blatantly" false anyway. It was false yes but it wasn't blatant, hence how it took 3 years for people to notice


Now, you should take what Flootenkerp is saying as a wake up call. Not as some sort of insult. He did not say it in an insulting manner (I have seen many statements by him and trust me he put this very nicely). If someone says that not all your sources are reliable, then you have to think about who are your sources and figure out how to address the issue, so it does not continue happening. Of course, you have to ask yourself, who is saying that as well and what is their reason. But when you have a reliable source and people from his site saying that you have some unreliable sources, you should take a hint. (I consider myself a reliable source to Serebii.net :))

That's the thing, ALL my sources ARE reliable. Flootenkerp's way of saying it was offensive and downright derogatory. This is not a wake up call by any sense of the term. One error does not equate to sources being unreliable or anything like that. Now, if half my site was wrong then yes, you'd have a point. That however, is not true and thus his statement was inaccurate and derogatory


Don't just take it on faith that your sources are reliable.

I don't. I know what I am doing in regards to this. I have 10 years of experience and I don't just get information from sources. Sure the Honey Tree stuff was a slipup but it's not exactly major and it is by no means a repeat occurance


Thank you SCV. Serebii, the only reason I come here is because they don't lie to us. They tell us good information, and when they have had wrong information, they admit it. You're priority is to be popular, while this site is to give us legal events and good information. Maybe you should not only fix the errors you currently have, but should make sure to prevent similar errors in the future. And really, we don't have to point out the errors. Asking us to tell you the errors implies you don't test out or make sure of anything so you make sure its correct. If you really payed attention to what you put on the site, and if it really mattered to you, you wouldn't need us to point out the flaws. Just improve your site, and for the love of God fix that Pichu translation. It's jagged, not notched. There, I pointed out an error. Go fix the rest.

I do not lie on my site. There may be a couple of slip ups from time to time or a database conflict causing an entry to not appear, but I DO NOT LIE.

No, you do not have to point out the errors, but it's common courtesy to. Lets say for example you made a site and there is a slight error in it. Would you rather people just saw an error and said "There's an error and I'm not going to tell you but will forever insult your site because of it" or would you rather they tell you the error. So yes, with that in mind, I would prefer people tell me there's an error.

As said, even the most devout checker cannot grab every single error. Nobody is perfect and sometimes things happen, even unintentional things such as database indexing issues which are not exactly my fault. It does matter to me, but I cannot check every single page of a 10 GigaByte website and you couldn't either. I check everything I put up, but humans make errors, sometimes things slip through and that cannot be helped. I will be sure to point back to this day when PP inadvertantly posts an error.

Oh, and Notched Ear Pichu is a viable translation of ギザみみピチュー which translated to Gizamimi Pichu. Both Notched and Jagged are viable and accurate and like many Japanese translations, there is rarely one exact translation. My translation of it was from the long serving Japanese translator of Serebii.net, Coronis. Other translators on various sites including Bulbapedia also came to this conclusion and they wouldn't just copy my stuff without checking it.


The only errors I can think of are outdated infromation for some of the video games (MD Explorers of the Sky hasn't been released yet aquording to your site), and the dis-ability to right-click and select with the cursor, which I found a way around, and I can even put it up for download!

Those things are minor "errors" (although as they do not actually give information which is inaccurate) and are on my to-do list. However, newer things keep bumping my to-do list. Rest assured, those minor oversights shall be sorted. As for the disability to right click, thats intentional.

[Okami]

I really don't think this is the place to debate right and wrong information. As far as I know, the Debate Forum is there for a reason. :] (Not to sound like a snob or anything, I'm just following what was asked by Spotty)


But there's something called respect, as you have pointed out. It's pretty hard to not bash a community with little respect for it.

Is that not what I've been saying all along, Wraith? That we should have respect, not only towards our members but also to other communities in the pokemon fan world?

[FLOOTENKERP]

Yes there was an error. However, instead of letting me know there was an error, you just sat here and bitched about it. That isn't helpful in any sense of the word. Also, as much as you'd like to think one error is too many, everywhere has errors. Get over it.
Very mature. Anyways, an error is one thing, but this was no error. You actually thought that Munchlax was 1% for any game. Did you have any reliable source? Get your facts straight or you mislead someone and end up "bitching" in someone else's site, because I'm sure this site does. You didn't even have the decency to announce it. When you change something on the site, ANNOUNCE IT. If I read that page only once and never read it again because I already understood it the first time, I would have no Idea I was doing something wrong, so maybe if you update on corrections, people wouldn't be accusing you of giving wrong information.


No SCV, all my sources ARE reliable
Are you being serious right now...


That's the thing, ALL my sources ARE reliable. Flootenkerp's way of saying it was offensive and downright derogatory. This is not a wake up call by any sense of the term. One error does not equate to sources being unreliable or anything like that. Now, if half my site was wrong then yes, you'd have a point. That however, is not true and thus his statement was inaccurate and derogatory
Hm, so you thoroughly check all of your information before announcing it? If you don't this is a wake up call, and I'm sure you don't check anything. You will believe anything everyone tells you.


I don't. I know what I am doing in regards to this. I have 10 years of experience and I don't just get information from sources. Sure the Honey Tree stuff was a slipup but it's not exactly major and it is by no means a repeat occurance
I wasted days trying to get a Munchlax with your information. Days on end. You wasted my time. To you it was a slip up, to me it was a waste of life. Get your facts straight, don't ever mislead your members again, because they look up to you and trust your information. Thoroughly check your information. That's all you have to do.

No, you do not have to point out the errors, but it's common courtesy to. Lets say for example you made a site and there is a slight error in it. Would you rather people just saw an error and said "There's an error and I'm not going to tell you but will forever insult your site because of it" or would you rather they tell you the error. So yes, with that in mind, I would prefer people tell me there's an error.


Oh, and Notched Ear Pichu is a viable translation of ギザみみピチュー which translated to Gizamimi Pichu. Both Notched and Jagged are viable and accurate and like many Japanese translations, there is rarely one exact translation. My translation of it was from the long serving Japanese translator of Serebii.net, Coronis. Other translators on various sites including Bulbapedia also came to this conclusion and they wouldn't just copy my stuff without checking it.
Unless you are in Japan like Guested is and are a native to the language, then I suggest you use his translation. Look at the image and then tell me which would be a better translation.
http://i41.tinypic.com/rtnivs.jpg

[wraith89]

Ok guys, lay off the debating here. If you want to continue, then create a debate topic regarding this in the debate forums.

Anyways, I don't think anyone's here to hurt anyone nor accuse them of anything rash. We should all try working together instead of quarreling with our pride.

[evandixon]

Have fun, everyone. (http://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?p=35356)

[randomspot555]

Also, a general discussion thread of all Pokemon websites here

http://projectpokemon.org/forums/showthread.php?p=35359#post35359

To the people who's posts I just deleted: PM me if you cant copies of them.