Pidgeot: Gamefreak's First Mistake?

[wraith89]

"Pidgeot sucks, go get yourself another f***ing favorite bird!"

~ GGFan

[icon]018[/icon]Introduction

This is an article discussing the issues regarding Pidgeot, the majestic bird Pokemon who has roughly the speed of Mach 2 and the ability to conjure a storm out of its mighty wings. Note that this is a revamp of an old article I was writing regarding Pidgeot, but I was rather unhappy with it because it looked disorganised and not very concise. I think cleaning it up this way makes it a lot easier to read.

[icon]018[/icon]The Issue

I will say this bluntly: Pidgeot sucks, in relative and absolute terms.

And now here comes the objection from most people: Pidgeot is awesome! I have one in my team and it kicks the enemy trainers' butts!

Sure... that's in-game but even in-game you may sometimes find its powers rather compromised in comparison to other birds you are able to get.

[icon]018[/icon]Comparison With Other Birds

Of course, we would like to know how well Pidgeot compares to its other avian colleagues. Very well, here is a little comparison between Pidgeot and its fearsome rival Fearow.

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Pidgeot

Type: NORMAL / FLYING

Ability: Keen Eye / Tangled Feet

Dream World Ability: Big Pecks

Base Stats:

HP: 83

Attack: 80

Defense: 75

Special Attack: 70

Special Defense: 70

Special (RBY): 70

Speed: 91 (+10 XY)

BST: 469 (+10 XY)

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Fearow

Type: NORMAL / FLYING

Ability: Keen Eye

Dream World Ability: Sniper

HP: 65

Attack: 90

Defense: 65

Special Attack: 61

Special Defense: 61

Speed: 100

BST: 442

Yes, it seems Pidgeot has the upper hand when it comes to defence and base stat total, but not by much. However, where it matters most (which is attack and speed), Fearow surpasses Pidgeot, making Pidgeot's other stats rather redundant. And mind you, Fearow is just one of the lower birds, and from that point, the other birds completely outclass it in terms of stats and abilities.

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Farfetch'd

Type: NORMAL / FLYING

Ability: Keen Eye / Inner Focus

Dream World Ability: Defiant

HP: 52

Attack: 65

Defense: 55

Special Attack: 58

Special Defense: 62

Speed: 60

BST: 352

This guy is obviously the best bird out there. Like totally; what other Normal/Flying bird learns Leaf Blade and carries a Leek? In all seriousness, even though there is no chance of it ever receiving one, at least it has the possibility to evolve.

[hgsssprite]085[/hgsssprite]

Dodrio

Type: NORMAL / FLYING

Ability: Run Away / Early Bird

Dream World Ability: Tangled Feet

HP: 60

Attack: 110

Defense: 70

Special Attack: 60

Special Defense: 60

Speed: 100

BST: 460

Dodrio just makes the other Normal/Flying birds jelly... at least in the first and second Gen. He completely outclassed Fearow up until Gen V. Fearow now has Sniper and Drill Run, but Dodrio's attack power is superior and it also has access to Brave Bird and Acupressure. It is only in its second stage so it still has a possibility of evolution, though I doubt that will happen.

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Noctowl

Type: NORMAL / FLYING

Ability: Insomnia / Keen Eye

Dream World Ability: Tinted Lens

HP: 100

Attack: 50

Defense: 50

Special Attack: 76

Special Defense: 96

Speed: 70

BST: 442

Noctowl isn't that great competitively, but it has a recognised niche as a defensive bird, and it is not bad at it. Pidgeot's defences are only middling in comparison so it gives it no specialisation whatsoever. It is only in its second stage so it still has a possibility of evolution, though I doubt that will happen.

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Swellow

Type: NORMAL / FLYING

Ability: Guts

Dream World Ability: Scrappy

HP: 60

Attack: 85

Defense: 60

Special Attack: 50

Special Defense: 50

Speed: 125

BST: 430

Low BST? Pfft, so what? That speed is totally unfair, and STAB Facade with Guts is just about the scariest thing out there, when Swellow is under some status condition. 85 base attack is 5 points stronger than Pidgeot's 80, just for reference. Quick Attack at level 8? Wing Attack at level 13? Good grief. It is only in its second stage so it still has a possibility of evolution, though I doubt that will happen. Even then, Swellow is a monster.

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Staraptor

Type: NORMAL / FLYING

Ability: Intimidate

Dream World Ability: Reckless

HP: 85

Attack: 120

Defense: 70

Special Attack: 50

Special Defense: 50

Speed: 100

BST: 475

OKAY. THIS. IS. UNFAIR. Scary attack power? Base 100 speed? Intimidate? Natural Brave Bird just so other birds can depend on it to learn it via breeding? CLOSE COMBAT?! This guy was just designed to put the other birds into shame; this is what Pidgeot should have been. Oh yes, it also has access to Level 5 Quick Attack and Level 9 Wing Attack! Yes, it is in its final form, but this is exactly what a final form bird should have been. Perfect example of a power creep; there's just no other Normal/Flying birds that parallels the monster that is Staraptor.

[sprite]441[/sprite]

Chatot

Type: NORMAL / FLYING

Ability: Keen Eye / Tangled Feet

Dream World Ability: Big Pecks

HP: 76

Attack: 65

Defense: 45

Special Attack: 92

Special Defense: 42

Speed: 91

BST: 411

Chatot is not spectacular, but it seems like Pidgeot could have used stats that resembled something like this instead. It is primarily a special attacker with Pidgeot's speed and abilities. At least this guy has a niche and has no evolution yet, which leaves open possibilities.

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Togekiss

Type: NORMAL / FLYING (FAIRY / FLYING as of XY)

Ability: Serene Grace / Hustle

Dream World Ability: Super Luck

HP: 85

Attack: 50

Defense: 95

Special Attack: 120

Special Defense: 115

Speed: 80

BST: 545

Yeah, this one is an odd one, but I will put it in here nonetheless to show you that there are strange Normal/Flying birds out there as well. We all know how annoying Serene Grace + Air Slash flinch is. It's bulky, it's powerful, and learns a plethora of moves. Whatever Pidgeot's bulk was, it does not compare with Togekiss's, who does not even specialise in that niche.

Note as of XY, Togekiss is now Fairy type, so it is a completely different Pokemon and should not be listed here.

Unfezant

Type: NORMAL / FLYING

Ability: Big Pecks / Super Luck

Dream World Ability: Rivalry

HP: 80

Attack: 105

Defense: 80

Special Attack: 65

Special Defense: 55

Speed: 93

BST: 478

I don't think Pidgeot would have minded these stats, but this guy was made to troll on Pidgeot. It is not because it outclasses Pidgeot; in fact, this one may be the worst Normal/Flying ever designed. It's just that they put the wrong stats on the wrong Pokemon! It has a high attack stat and a speed stat trolling on Pidgeot's 91, but its movepool consists HIGHLY of special attacks, and no usable physical Flying move to speak of other than Pluck, or if you are gutsy: Fly and Sky Attack. What the heck? In fact, it is in its final form as well; it was deliberate, I am sure.

Braviary

Type: NORMAL / FLYING

Ability: Keen Eye / Sheer Force

Dream World Ability: Defiant

HP: 100

Attack: 123

Defense: 75

Special Attack: 57

Special Defense: 75

Speed: 80

BST: 510

He is simply amazing. If you want a bird that defines brute force, it would be Braviary here with his savage movepool including Brave Bird, Superpower, Crush Claw, Rock Slide, and others. He also gets boosting moves in the form of Bulk Up and Hone Claws. Although... he would want a speed booster of some kind and Close Combat instead of Superpower. Nonetheless, he is bulky, decently fast, and incredibly powerful, something Pidgeot would want too. Also he looks like a final form Pokemon, but has one slot left for evolution (if they ever did that they would make a baby form of Rufflet that evolves into Rufflet or Vullaby depending on its gender... *facepalm*).

[icon]018[/icon]In-Game

"Pidgeot needs a haircut!"

~ SkyFormeSheimi

At least Pidgey would be useful in-game, right? I suppose it has some sort of a niche by spamming Sand-Attack, but do we really need that? Pidgey appears quite early in games that have Kanto or Johto, or they plain mock it by placing Level 51 Pidgeys in areas with larger bugs like Ariados or Venomoth (Pokemon DPP). But usually whenever Pidgey is in the game, so is its rival Spearow, who is meaner and vicious. You head to the side route of Viridian City in Kanto or head north in that little gatehouse at Route 29 for Johto for the better bird.

Right from the start, Spearow has the better STAB move Peck while Pidgey has the lame Tackle, which was not buffed until Black/White, where it is inconsequential anyways as Pidgey is not an early game Pokemon there. Pidgey evolves at Level 18 into Pidgeotto, who looks awesome but results will soon prove to be disappointing. Asides from additional bulk and one extra point in speed (which may be lower if Spearow's IVs/EVs are higher to begin with), Pidgeotto's stats are very similar to Spearow's! Yes, even its attack power is the same. It is understandable regarding Pidgey's and Spearow's stats due to the former's timid nature and the latter's savage nature, but the change from Pidgey to Pidgeotto is rather a radical change, as Pidgeotto assumes the predatory niche and should continue becoming more powerful, especially as Pidgeot.

So it takes until Level 18 for Pidgey to even catch up to Spearow, who evolves at Level 20. Oh look, Level 17 Aerial Ace for Spearow! That gives Spearow an amazing STAB attack to work with for a long time, and to add insult to injury, Fearow learns Mirror Move at level 23, MUCH earlier than Pidgeot. It's not like the move is all that useful, but that was supposedly Pidgeot's signature attack, but Fearow gets it much earlier. Whoops. So basically, what is the use of getting a bird that needs to reach Level 36 to reach its final form that is not too great when there is already a bird that reaches its final form at Level 20, and it is better than the Level 36 one? There is a huge imbalance here... and Fearow isn't exactly the best bird out there!

Oh get this. You know how some Pokemon get a new attack when they evolve? It doesn't look like Pidgeot gets one at all. What's this? Level 38 Wing Attack? LEVEL. 38. What the heck mate? So we have a Level 17 Aerial Ace from Spearow, Level 13 Wing Attack from Taillow, and Level 9 Wing Attack from Starly. And this great majestic birds learns it at level 38? Give me a break!

[icon]018[/icon]A Small Analysis

: One day I will be a beautiful Pidgeot!

It is understandable when Gen I Pokemon were not really programmed with competitive viability in mind, but it is clear that Pidgeot lacks the specialisation the other birds get... and they did NOTHING to improve this. I feel when they did the Special stat split in Gen II, Pidgeot's Special Attack should have been buffed so it would at least have some sort of a role. Back then, a special attacking Normal/Flying bird was non-existent except for Noctowl or Togetic, none of which were not too powerful anyways. It would have been horrid until Gen IV with the addition of special Flying attacks, and more moves would have been added to its movepool.

Now why do I say this? It is because it appears that Pidgeot's specialty based on its movepool and Pokedex is blowing strong gusts of wind. It is not the savage tear-em-apart type of birds most of the other birds are; this one is more like a noblesse and prides in its plumage and majestic wings. In fact, Gen V supports this by giving the relatively exclusive attack Hurricane to Pidgeot, which is truly awesome. Okay, so it is supposed to go on Mach-2 speed, which is faster than Garchomp, but Pidgeot is slower than Gliscor! Something like 110 Special Attack would have been enough to suffice. However, since base stats are pretty much permanent, I don't think there is much they can do. They did do the unthinkable by adding a new ability in Gen V via Dream World, but Pidgeot's ability was not too helpful in helping create a specialisation.

Then what? I suppose the only thing they can do is give Pidgeot the Marowak treatment. You know, a unique hold item that can at least compensate for its relatively low stats? Since trainers all enjoy the bright plumage that Pidgeot possesses, it would not be such a bad idea by giving it a hold item that can double its Special Attack, similar to Marowak's Thick Club. And I don't believe it is broken either, since Pidgeot's special movepool is rather barren, consisting of Hurricane, Air Slash, Heat Wave... and not much else.

In fact, I think this would be one of the most efficient ways to give Pidgeot some sort of a specialisation. A final form bird that has no other ways to give itself a meaning would have to find any way to salvage itself. And Pidgeot is not the only victim of lack of specialisation or not fulfilling its intended purpose properly. There are many other Pokemon out there (particularly some from Gen I) that need some sort of fixing. Pidgeot may be one of the first, but it is not by any means the last.

[icon]018[/icon]Conclusion

That is it for now. I made this article much more concise than its predecessor and hopefully, my thoughts are easier to read now. So what do you guys think about Pidgeot? Please discuss...

Though it was luck based, I have had two instances where I had Pidgeot sweep unexpectedly.

[icon]018[/icon]XY Update

I was proven wrong with Gamefreak not giving Pokemon new abilities, and I was proven wrong yet again when I said base stats will never change! It looks like Gamefreak may be heading towards the right direction with adding + 10 base stats to some Pokemon who need it (although Pikachu gained + 20 base stats, as + 10 in both defences), and Pidgeot was one of them, gaining an extra + 10 Speed, beating out base 100s! Hurray for balancing! I hope I'm proven more wrong when they give it a Mega Evolution with Gale Wings or something of that sort. However, that + 10 BST change is a little too half-hearted, as nobody I know would have agreed Alakazam deserved the same stat changes as early Level 10 Bugs and the sort. A boost in Special Attack and lowering its Attack maybe would help gain a niche somewhat. Unfortunately, its movepool is also pretty much the same as the older games, which may change when new move tutors come out later. It is still heavily outclassed by another early Normal / Flying Pokemon, Talonflame (although final form is Fire/Flying), which has the Attack Power of Swellow, but slightly higher Speed, and a very dangerous niche as a revenge killer that is nigh uncounterable by the majority of OU Pokemon but ironically gets beaten by lower caste of Pokemon like Luxray or Rhyperior and the likes.

Edited November 23, 2013 by wraith89

[DanteKoriyu]

Who cares about any game outside the main game? =P

I've never understood competitive battling with all the rules and regulations. Play the game the way it was meant to be played, broken as hell. lol

Pidgoet IS my favorite normal type bird. He has my favorite design compared to Swelliow, Staraptor, Noctowl and the like. Even if the other birds maybe better off in the competitive scene, I'd still choose Pidgeot. Hell, I've trained a Pidgey on all my main in game teams since the original Red. Nothing can compare to him IMO. Sure it might be nice for Gamefreak to fix him up, and they can do that next Gen (Not that they will), nothing is stopping them from doing whatever they want, not even the fans. But I personally don't care if they do or don't. The bird has got my love even if he is considered competitively useless.

[wraith89]

Who cares about any game outside the main game? =P

I've never understood competitive battling with all the rules and regulations. Play the game the way it was meant to be played, broken as hell. lol

Pidgoet IS my favorite normal type bird. He has my favorite design compared to Swelliow, Staraptor, Noctowl and the like. Even if the other birds maybe better off in the competitive scene, I'd still choose Pidgeot. Hell, I've trained a Pidgey on all my main in game teams since the original Red. Nothing can compare to him IMO. Sure it might be nice for Gamefreak to fix him up, and they can do that next Gen (Not that they will), nothing is stopping them from doing whatever they want, not even the fans. But I personally don't care if they do or don't. The bird has got my love even if he is considered competitively useless.

You too? Awesome! *high fives*

But to people who do want to play competitively, this is an issue =/

I've always wanted to use Pidgeot in Wifi battles... but of course, the only thing stopping me was that whole "it is outclassed by the others" thing.

[HottSushiz]

AHHH TOO MUCH READING!!!:eek:

Well i didn't forget about Pigeot, he was the one who always flew me to the desired town. And i use Pigeot because people always seem to use Staraptor instead, so when i throw out a Pigeot, they are acquire a shocked face..... But Pigeot ends up dying.:tongue:

Long Live Pigeot!

[Greencat]

Sorry, but I sorta' ignored the wall of text fallowed after.

I always thought of it OK because Sperrow/Farrow was always big and menacing and picked on Pidgeys.

[DanteKoriyu]

You too? Awesome! *high fives*

But to people who do want to play competitively, this is an issue =/

I've always wanted to use Pidgeot in Wifi battles... but of course, the only thing stopping me was that whole "it is outclassed by the others" thing.

*return high five* =P

True, true, you people and your competitive scene. lol

Taking all the other normal birds leaves you with (not just for the competitive scene):

Fearow - He reminds me of an 80's rock band costume. The furry looking collar and the wings look like tassels.

Dodrio - The whole three heads thing is a turn off. I some times have a hard time deciding things myself, I don't need to more heads on my shoulders to make it more difficult.

Farfetch'd - My 2nd favorite bird for sure. Who couldn't love the bird that can beat the hell out of you with a leek?

Noctowl - Probably my 3rd favorite bird. Nothing more creepy than an owl rotating his head backwards to see you.

Swellow - I can understand how people like him, but he seems too plain to me.

Staraptor - Who wants a bird of Prey that always has a boot on his head...come'on.

Chatot - Hm, a parrot. I give credit for the creativity, but he annoys me...

Pidgeot wins out. He can rock the mullet.

[ALCHEMIST]

Personally, Pidgeot has always been amongst my most favorite pokemon, and I too have managed to include him in all of my in game teams at some point or another, and most of the time he became a permanent member. But seriously, there are so many things that can be done to give him a much needed boost, whether it be a few more moves, or as wraith already said: a new item just for him. I seriously hope gamefreak just does not screw him over again in Gen. 5 by adding yet another bird, instead of giving him a much needed boost, but hey, he's still the best bird in my book.

[wraith89]

Sorry, but I sorta' ignored the wall of text fallowed after.

I always thought of it OK because Sperrow/Farrow was always big and menacing and picked on Pidgeys.

But... this is important

Well, here's the thing. Lorewise, true, Spearow and Fearow pick on the Pidgey family, for Pidgey is docile, but that shouldn't mean Pidgey should be completely defenseless. Here's what I mean by being outclassed:

Fearow: faster and stronger and has Drill Peck (but Pidgeot now gets Brave Bird =P)

Farfetch'd: this guy will one day evolve, just watch...

Dodrio: better than Fearow, but that automatically means it's better than Pidgeot

Noctowl: meh... this bird plays a COMPLETELY different role from the others, so let's not list him

Swellow: Guts abuse + STAB Facade + incredibly fast... outclasses Pidgeot by a lot

Staraptor: acceptable stats, Intimidate, Brave Bird and CLOSE COMBAT, this bird must be the king of them all... although slower than Swellow and does not have Guts, but still outclasses Pidgeot

Chatot: Looks small, but shares the same speed tier as Pidgeot, not to mention he has a decent special attack to use Heat Wave and all. Yes, sadly even CHATOT outclasses Pidgeot

Togekiss: Paraflinchhax, awesome movepool, and incredibly bulky, this thing outclasses Pidgeot by a mile, even if it doesn't share the same role

Notice how some are even only on their second stage and already outclass Pidgeot... poor poor birdy. =(

Nothing's gonna stop me from using it, however. =P

And thank you, Pidgeot supporters! Long live Pidgeot!

[SkyFormeSheimi]

"Pidgeot needs a haircut!"

~ someone

That was me! :B

Anyhow, I agree to all of this. Pidgeot is my favorite most commonly seen birds (out of Fearow, Swellow, etc.)

I also find it ridiculous how lousy it's stats are. I mean, show some love GameFreak.

[Guested]

I use Pidgeot pretty successfully in my 2vs2 competitive team.

[randomspot555]

I'm going to contest that, even in-game, Pidgeot sucks.

I used him in both Red and Fire Red. I ditched him as soon as I could in Red, and I tried to grind through in the remake, but he was just a pain to level up wit a pathetic move pool

So even in-game, he sucks.

Look at the other Pokes you encounter early:

Mankey, and then you run into those mega punch and mega kick move tutors

machoke and geodude and stuff

pikachu

the bugs

starter

Magikarp salesman

So yeah, even in-game, there's no reason to use it.

Competitively?

Well, in OU, we've got offensive bird Staraptor, and Togekiss, the flinching bird and can play defense.

In UU, those roles go to Swellow and Noctow, respectively.

Farfetch'd gets a ridicoulously awesome move pool but no stats to make it worth it.

So what can Pidgeot do that Swellow and Noctowl can't?

Eh...besides the gimmicky "give it it's own item/ability", nothing.

Pidgeot sucks. I know, i hated to admit it, but it's true

[SilentFox]

care to join the crobat fan club..... no i guess not

two words

ROAD KILL

thats a pidgeiot to me

crobat > pidgeiot

four wings and a stylishly cool look

[wraith89]

I'm going to contest that, even in-game, Pidgeot sucks.

I used him in both Red and Fire Red. I ditched him as soon as I could in Red, and I tried to grind through in the remake, but he was just a pain to level up wit a pathetic move pool

So even in-game, he sucks.

Not to mention it takes up to level 18 to get Pidgey to become Pidgeotto... and Spearow becomes its final form Fearow at LEVEL 20! To become Pidgeot will require an additional 16 levels... with offensive and speed stats that parallel SPEAROW'S (seriously check Pidgeotto's and Spearow's stats and you'll see what I mean). Even Fearow is better, not because it gets Mirror Move 20 levels earlier, but because it evolves earlier AND gets a better stat distribution AND gets Drill Peck and stuff. That's seriously messed up... poor Pidgeot

Edited July 22, 2009 by wraith89

[Relyte]

I did like pidgey, up until about Mt. Moon area...

It just didn't stand up to the other pokemon that I found that outclass it (better moves, stronger, more useful, etc.), although it generally remained in my party (to Fly )

It looks so good, though! Why, gamefreak?

[Goldgross]

I cant believe i missed this thread......but honestly i LMAO reading that long thing I swear, i like how Pidgeot looks, its a total hottie, but the stats make it underpowered. If you gave it an item like Thick Club, it would become Broken, kinda like a Raichu using Light ball. Attack doubled, and stab Brave Bird would make it freakishly uber, not to mention, with that 91 base speed stat, it would be faster than most Ubers :eek: That and quick attack for anything faster......helloooo! remember whats going on with Arceus?

Gamefreak did make a huge mistake with Pidgeot. Honestly, i judge many pokemon through their stats and obviously their use in battle, but i also go for looks on Pokemon. BTW most of the pokes i <3 look really awesome. Yeah its a 3rd Evo and it has a crap ability.....wait.....Tangled Feet? Dynamic punch and Confuse ray anyone? it can boost his evasiveness in confusion. But again only a 50% chance to attack and your opponent still has 80% chance to land a hit right? or does it raise it by 50%.........i wouldnt know :frown: Me no Pidgeot fan, so me wont know what new ability Gamereak slapped onto it.

My opinnion, an item would most definitely fix the problem, but make it an Item which boosts atk and speed by 50%. That would make it similar to the Latis. No double boost in atk for the above reasons. A dragon dance like boost would make it a really nice revenge killer for a few pokemon and it would most certainly be OU.

[Goldgross]

If Pidgeot was Gamefreaks first mistake.......then poor Zapdos is definitly the second one. I mean......look at what the 4th gen gave it. Heat Wave? almost every other flying type pokemon got THAT. Pidgeot got it too! Whats the big deal with getting it anyway?! :confused:

Why couldnt Gamefreak give Zappy Brave Bird? I mean so many birds can learn it............2 obscure pokemon can learn that move. Mainly Blaziken, yeah its derived from a chicken but does that mean it should get Brave Bird? Crobat isnt even a god damn bird!!!! and it still gets it. Zappy is one of the bravest birds out there....shouldnt it deserve BB?

Honestly, Gamefreak really screwed up poor Zappy :frown:. It was on the verge of becoming Uber............ but they deprived it. Look at its fellow legendary birds, Articuno gets a OHKO move in Sheer Cold and Mind Reader to form the deadliest combo, that too from a pokemon THAT sturdy! Moltres gets SKY ATTACK!!! Thats the strongest flying type move there is! It can use it so well with that 100 base atk stat of his. That with the same amount of spe atk as Zappy!!

Staraptor gets Close Combat....why couldnt they give Zappy that? their talons are the same in size and they both have long and powerful legs. If not that, at least it shouldve learnt Brave Bird for cryin out loud >_> It could solve the eternal problem with blissey that it has but NOOOOOOOO, whats it left with? just a stupid Drill Peck >_<

Its blindingly obvious, Zapdos was robbed. My heart weeps for Zappy ; _ ; Its such an amazing pokemon.................

................

................

................

ROFLMAO

OMG that was epic!!! I was just messing with you guys . BTW All the things said here are 100% true, but still i wont deny the fact that Zappy was born with a Golden spoon in its long, sharp beak.

Its the best bird of all no question. The only "competition" it faces is from Aerodactyl who isnt even a bird . Bulky Zapdos can even survive a Stone edge from Aerodactyl and return the favor with a scintillating thunderbolt for a OHKO. Its hands down the best flying type other than Arceus who frankly shouldnt be compared to at all. It resists the flying type itself for God sakes! No doubt in my mind that its the best of all. Not only that but its also the best Electric type by a mile. Only rotom can come close to it and it too is weak to Dark and Ghost thereby making it weak to Pursuit and Sucker punch which dont rely on Rotoms offensive capabilities. Zappy on the other hand can take a Choice banded Ice shard from an Adamant Mamoswine and never be OHKOd even with just 6 HP EVs :eek: Its freakin amazing.

Yes wraith i know your gonna go crazy every time you read this, but its all true. Zappy is a shining star 8D. Even though im not much into Flying OR Electric type pokemon.......Zappy gets a whole lotta love from me :redface:

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

[ocwil]

i have to agree it's the best looking bird

but aside that it's not good shame on you gamefreak!!

[wraith89]

Gold you've gotta be kidding me. Articuno and Moltres were the ones screwed up, not Zapdos! They continued to buff up Zapdos while they left Articuno and Moltres in the dirt... but that's a completely different topic. I'll write another one about that.

The last thing we need is an uber Zapdos.

[Goldgross]

Gold you've gotta be kidding me. Articuno and Moltres were the ones screwed up, not Zapdos! They continued to buff up Zapdos while they left Articuno and Moltres in the dirt... but that's a completely different topic. I'll write another one about that.

The last thing we need is an uber Zapdos.

ROFLMAO

OMG that was epic!!! I was just messing with you guys . BTW All the things said here are 100% true, but still i wont deny the fact that Zappy was born with a Golden spoon in its long, sharp beak.

Lmao, i WAS kidding you wraithy. But what you dont realize is that all the above said is true. The birds are equal, movepool wise......(no brave bird ) , its only the awesome typing and the stats that make Zappy so much better. It was BORN epic, you cant blame it. Oh and btw, Articuno dominated most of the 1st i believe. Gamefreak didnt want it hogging all the limelight. They never really buffed up Zappy actually. They are all the same. Zappy still wants to beat Blissey ; _ ;

i have to agree it's the best looking bird

but aside that it's not good shame on you gamefreak!!

Pidgeot or Zapdos?

[wraith89]

I realize Gold

Articuno didn't completely dominate Gen I. Zapdos was the dominator, only it couldn't beat Rhydon or Golem (in simulators now it has the tools to beat them thanks to "perfect IV Hidden Power Ice or Grass")... but nevertheless it was pretty good back then (just like the other two, although Moltres only had Fire Blast to attack with). Then Articuno went downhill (and Gamefreak screwed up with Ice and Electric, Ice being so weak defensively while Electrics are only weak to Ground while Zapdos is immune to it... oh boy).

Anyways back to Pidgeot. 1.5x on both speed and attack? Seems a bit more broken with the speed factored in. I'd just say 2x boost on attack or SpA... I don't see people complaining about how broken Marowak is, even in TR (not to mention it can take physical hits unlike Pidgeot). Then maybe it would be possible to make something like an Agility set or something pretty cool. If 2x does sound broken (I'm not seeing it yet though) maybe 1.5x in each attack wouldn't be as bad.

[SilentFox]

Silver Plume item to be held by pidgeot

raises att and spatt 2 stages

I want this in gamefreak .... Farfetched has a item for pete's sake

[wraith89]

Maybe with separate items though... one plume for attack and one plume for special attack... or else that thing could become a dangerous mixed sweeper with Agility and stuff.

[Sunny day]

I know this thread is really old, but I cannot help it I registered myself as a member until March 2011... In any case, I wanted to say something about the Pidgeot discussion here! Let's start with a quote:

So Pidgeot is supposedly the bulkier of the birds hm? Aside from Noctowl and Togekiss, let's take a look. 83/75/70 Defenses... looks somewhat like something we already know... Infernape? And did we ever consider Infernape as a defensive machine?

Hmm, sometimes you get stuck when comparing obvious stronger Pokémon with obvious weaker ones. I remembered a same situation when I was playing HeartGold: Parasect was my 'defensive Pokémon', while Scyther was my 'sweeping Pokémon'. But after a closer inspection, it came to mind Scyther was in fact even bulkier than Parasect! (60/80/80 for Parasect and 70/80/80 in the case of Scyther). Very sad indeed, but this sort of comparisons are not really relevant. Did you think Tropius is bulky? Well, maybe, but Garchomp is even bulkier than Tropius, while it is not even meant to be bulky! It is very obvious your defensive capatibilities are better when you have more base stats to spent overall, and after all, when you lack those base stats, it does not make you 'not defensive' at once.

Anyway, I did not like Pidgeot for particular reasons. Not because it was weak or something, just because I liked Fearow more, or its pre-evolution Pidgeotto! A couple of years back in time I played Gold and Crystal, where I frequently got Pidgeotto because I get sick of continuously taking Spearows as my party member! You could only Fly, Wing Attack and something like Sand-attack/Mud-slap/Steel Wing/Thief. I did not mind (and do not mind to this day) it was hard to train - it was just a sweet Pokémon. I liked Bayleef more than Meganium, so I kept Bayleef too, the same story. At a time I ran out of Everstones!

But yeah, some Pokémon do not really have good stats, but there always have to be some to make others strong, eh? The thing I would agree on is the capability of learning some usefull moves. Pokémon with a movepool as wide as the Pacific Ocean get more and more moves and some Pokémon are left behind with things they already got a couple of generations. Pidgeot did not really took benefit of that special/physical split, as some serious attack are spread over both sides of the spectrum. Since its Attack and Special Attack stat are not very high, you cannot use them both effectively. Actually, Pidgeot is not keeping me away from sleeping when it comes to usefull moves and coverage... A lot of other Pokémon I like did not get them, the first prize given to Sunflora.

Competitively it should be pretty worthless, but in-game Pidgeot is good to use! You only have to have some guts (or boredom) to use it, I think. Take Karen's advise and pick the ones you like.

[wraith89]

Hmm, sometimes you get stuck when comparing obvious stronger Pokémon with obvious weaker ones. I remembered a same situation when I was playing HeartGold: Parasect was my 'defensive Pokémon', while Scyther was my 'sweeping Pokémon'. But after a closer inspection, it came to mind Scyther was in fact even bulkier than Parasect! (60/80/80 for Parasect and 70/80/80 in the case of Scyther). Very sad indeed, but this sort of comparisons are not really relevant. Did you think Tropius is bulky? Well, maybe, but Garchomp is even bulkier than Tropius, while it is not even meant to be bulky! It is very obvious your defensive capatibilities are better when you have more base stats to spent overall, and after all, when you lack those base stats, it does not make you 'not defensive' at once.

It's the fact Pidgeot is at its final stage; it cannot go any further than what it is. All the other birds have the chance to evolution; they royally messed Pidgeot up. You would think Pidgeot would at least have a defensive edge over the other offensively oriented birds if they made it offensively challenged, but it isn't much help at all. It's to show that it is hardly an edge over the others.

I don't know about you, but you don't think Pidgeot was meant to be a powerful end-game Pokemon? I sure thought it was. It took a long time, a huge effort, just to get this large beautiful bird, but all that battling capabilities people talked about was nothing more than exaggeration.

Garchomp is bulky as heck because they broke it. I don't think it wasn't meant to be bulky; it was meant to break the game ._.

Anyway, I did not like Pidgeot for particular reasons. Not because it was weak or something, just because I liked Fearow more, or its pre-evolution Pidgeotto! A couple of years back in time I played Gold and Crystal, where I frequently got Pidgeotto because I get sick of continuously taking Spearows as my party member! You could only Fly, Wing Attack and something like Sand-attack/Mud-slap/Steel Wing/Thief. I did not mind (and do not mind to this day) it was hard to train - it was just a sweet Pokémon. I liked Bayleef more than Meganium, so I kept Bayleef too, the same story. At a time I ran out of Everstones!

Two words: Drill Peck. That was the best Flying STAB move and Spearow had access to it. Pidgeot had what, a 35 base power Wing Attack? Yeah, I think I'll pass. I can overlook all that, but to some people, they want efficiency, and they'll know when a Pokemon is failing them. Nothing stops people from using what they like, but after a while you begin to notice these things.

But yeah, some Pokémon do not really have good stats, but there always have to be some to make others strong, eh? The thing I would agree on is the capability of learning some usefull moves. Pokémon with a movepool as wide as the Pacific Ocean get more and more moves and some Pokémon are left behind with things they already got a couple of generations. Pidgeot did not really took benefit of that special/physical split, as some serious attack are spread over both sides of the spectrum. Since its Attack and Special Attack stat are not very high, you cannot use them both effectively. Actually, Pidgeot is not keeping me away from sleeping when it comes to usefull moves and coverage... A lot of other Pokémon I like did not get them, the first prize given to Sunflora.

Competitively it should be pretty worthless, but in-game Pidgeot is good to use! You only have to have some guts (or boredom) to use it, I think. Take Karen's advise and pick the ones you like.

I use Pidgeot because I like it, but look at its Pokedex description, stating about how majestic and how fast it is. It has the looks, but its stats makes absolutely no sense. It is supposed to be faster than Garchomp! It was a mistake that Gamefreak never rectified. I have to say they "tried" to improve Pidgeot this generation (V) by adding Hurricane as a new STAB move, but it's still not enough to make it as fearsome as it should be. But it is one of those "generational" stuff. The addition of Staraptor was basically Gamefreak biting its thumb at Pidgeot.

In-game, there are better options. In every game there's a Pidgey, there's always a Spearow one route ahead waiting to be under your wings. But you know me... it's always Pidgey for me.

[Sunny day]

I don't know about you, but you don't think Pidgeot was meant to be a powerful end-game Pokemon? I sure thought it was. It took a long time, a huge effort, just to get this large beautiful bird, but all that battling capabilities people talked about was nothing more than exaggeration.

That just sounds as a 'fun fact' to me, I am afraid. How much effort did it take to get such an mysterious Pokémon like Glalie? You had to train a loser like Snorunt (although, it is somehow pretty funny) until level 42! And then, Glalie isn't that 'strong' either. I do not think putting such aesthetic meanings on game features like level-up and the such would be decisive.

Two words: Drill Peck. That was the best Flying STAB move and Spearow had access to it. Pidgeot had what, a 35 base power Wing Attack? Yeah, I think I'll pass. I can overlook all that, but to some people, they want efficiency, and they'll know when a Pokemon is failing them. Nothing stops people from using what they like, but after a while you begin to notice these things.

Personally, I find Drill Peck such an agressive attack for Pidgeot, so luckily it has not got it. And not every Pokémon has to have the most strong attacks. I know, they had to give Pidgeot something nicer, but Wing Attack is almost as twice as strong as you put it down there (60 base power, 35 pp. ^^). It was just a pity Fly was not really stronger, so mostly I kept Wing Attack instead of Fly in the end.

I use Pidgeot because I like it, but look at its Pokedex description, stating about how majestic and how fast it is. It has the looks, but its stats makes absolutely no sense.

Meh, those descriptions in the dex are just, not worth knowing... They are so ridiculous! In Fr/Lg I saw how exaggerated they were (before, I did not noticed it really, I think). Machop could beat a hundred people in wrestling, Rapidash could run a freaking 150 miles per hour, and more of that... And I do not think the makers would represent that in base stats (105 speed is just pathetic for 150 miles... what about Ninjask then? Is it breaking the sound barrier or something? ;P).

Another thing, Tropius may not be as bad as Pidgeot (I guess you will say that anyway when I state the reverse), but to me, it always has been such a charming Pokémon. While, when encountering it around Fortree, it was just a mighty Pokémon to see. I always expected more of it, but it seems it is just such a kind soul instead. I liked that too, after a while.

So yeah, Pidgeot has been neglected, but I already agreed with you on that, Wraith. I am only stating (I think) it has not really something to do with those in-game things, and that there are tons of other Pokémon which have even a more bad move set or stats than Pidgeot.