idea Pokemon Ideal Black 2 & True White 2 - Seeking Partners!

[MarinoKadame]

Can you access the old area that got frozen by Kyurem ?

[aninymouse]

I can't re-write the main story, no. Even if there was a way to open up Twist Mountain & Iccirus & the swamp... and that's a huge "if"... you'd still have to block access to Route 9 and beyond or else you'd have to rewrite a ton of the story... All that dialogue and all those events... That's far too much work.

Trust me, I love the Moor and Route 8. It's a really cool-looking place! I love the swampy atmosphere and the possibilities of the Pokemon found there...

I dunno. If I took out Marshal... hmm. If I attempted to take out Marshal and opened up Twist mountain, you'd still have to take Skyla's plane to Lentimas Town. That's a lot of backtracking! Granted, you'd have HM Fly by that point. But the problem with having a huge amount of freedom in a linear RPG like Pokemon is that you get wide swaths of land that all have the same levels in wild Pokemon AND trainers. Remember Gold & Silver, after you beat Chuck? You could either battle Jasmine or Pryce, and so the levels of everything from Cianwood City, ALL THE WAY to the Lake of Rage, Mt. Mortar & Mahogany Town and all the routes in between are all about the same. As a result, your Pokemon rarely level up. The excitement and expectation of the next challenge suffers, since you don't feel like you're being challenged anymore... you yearn to move on to the next area instead of enjoying where you are.

Now, if you skipped Twist Mountain and flew to Lentimas Town, the game momentum would proceed as normal. However, detouring to Iccirus City, in this case, hurts game momentum overall, since the game was designed with going to Lentimas Town in mind. Think about it this way: Southern Unova is tiny compared to Northern Unova because Skyarrow Bridge is off-limits. Southern Unova is also forced to be perfectly linear in this way. If you don't block Twist Mountain, you end up with Northern Unova being an unbroken circle of towns and routes with nothing stopping you from circling in either direction. Since locations have set levels, the levels have to make sense. Besides, there's Dragonspiral Tower in Iccirus, and that HAS to be off-limits. There really is no goal, no motivation to even go to Iccirus anymore, except to capture a ton of Pokemon. No Gym, no new areas... in fact, you'd be retracing your steps from Black & White. Do you really want to play a sequel set in the same location as the first game... and then take the SAME path, more or less, as the first game? No way.

[MarinoKadame]

I asked mostly if you can access it after beating the champion and or having black or white kyurem. Wondered if you could access it in the normal game untouched.

[aninymouse]

...What? Why wouldn't you be able to go to Twist Mountain? Of course you can go there after beating the Champion. That's the default.

[MarinoKadame]

I just wanted to know if it was possible in the normal gameplay. I guess those areas have new pokemons from old generations ?

[wyndamn]

Im an idealist and the first thing i will say is that my purpose for pokémon is the same as Colress: "What I desire is to bring out the entirety in Pokémon potential!"

Keeping that in mind i have MANY ideas written on a wordpad document and others in my head that i had documented for my hackrom, but unfortunately i dont have that much editing experience yet. This document has many details on how to fix many pokémon that deserve improvement to convert them into competitive pokémon with very small changes, while at the same time keeping them truthful to themselves and their game information.

Another aspect inside this same goal (as you suggested in your comments previously) is balancing the game out in such way that almost all pokémon can compete at the same levels, being only divided into three main categories (Ubers , OU & LC.) or at max only four of them, which will be a reflection upon the improvements on the game. Most of these changes dont require any stats modifications on pokémon and at the same time these improvements will keep the game fresh and exciting.

And if necessary i can come up with a lot of ideas that suit the situation, moment or location if there´s any editing needed for the games plot or to insert anything new. So keeping everything i writted in mind if you are able to do the following (or get people that can do it) i can gladly provide many of my ideas and serve as an idea producer in the making of this hack:

- Create Events trough wondercards (Not mandatory.)

- Changing the typing effectiveness and resists. (I think you already are able to do this from what you have said so far).

- Changing abilities effects.

- Changing percentages of move damages.

- Scripting Legends Encounters to appear in the game with their overworld sprites.

- Swapping some overworld trainers with Gym Leaders, Elite Trainers, Rivals, Etc.

- Editing Hidden Grottos.

- Editing In-Game Trades.

- Editing Swarms. (Not mandatory.)

- Editing Tutors Moves. (Not mandatory.)

- Editing Evolution Conditions.

- Editing pokémon Eggmoves (Very necessary but not mandatory.)

- Editing pokémon Level Up moves.

- Making an overworld sprite turning into a pokémon upon interacting with it.

- Pokedex Location editing.

- Opening Editing to edit the games name and images showing at the beggining.

- Sprite Editing.

- Text & Plot editing.

My first suggestion is to do the Hackrom over pokémon white only since this will mean there will be less work to be done and also its more suitable for the hack and changing the name of the project to; Pokémon Black & White 2: Truth & Ideals. Sounds much better and suitable because we are going to be dealing with only one of the versions that will contain all of the pokémon. And maybe who knows if it becomes popular maybe create a server to use it as a trading and battling network so everyone can use their favorite pokémon to their fullest.

Im already well aware that many of these changes are possible already, yet not all people know how to hex edit or maybe they do but dont have all of the proper information to do so, i will edit and add later anything that i dont remember at the moment. Any improvements that im not sure about at the moment can be discussed with the crew once assembled, in the meantime after these conditions are met you can pm me.

Edited October 28, 2012 by wyndamn
Fixed technical term.

[aninymouse]

Changing the "type chart" of Gen 5 is still on top of my wish list, but the data doesn't seem to be stored in the same form as it used to be up 'til now. I haven't been able to find out how to change effectiveness. If I were able to change the balance of Pokemon types, then of course other types of changes could be minimal and you would still end up with a more balanced game. Unfortunately, since it seems like I cannot do what I want in this area, larger changes elsewhere are necessary to make Pokemon like Kingler or Manectric remotely useful, for instance. Some Pokemon, like Wailord, Tropius, Garbodore and Weezing will never be worth anything compared to Scizor, Tyranitar, Conkeldurr or Gengar... without stat increases. And some stat increases just make sense. I mean, how is it that a giant whale body slamming you hurts far less than a small, flaming ape tackling you?

Editing the effects of abilities is beyond my level of skill. I've never even heard of anyone doing that beyond Gen 3. I try to remain realistic in my goals, since this is a project I want to actually complete someday... besides, the selection of good abilities is WAAAAAAAAY better than Gen 4 now. Not really necessary.

I'm not sure if the habitat data will automatically update itself if the encounter tables are edited or not, but I do know that ever since HGSS, the Pokedex has not been able to be edited to remain 100% accurate when you change what Pokemon appears where.

All the rest of your ideas seem very doable, though

Haha, though I think that I kind of already hold the title of Director, here. And Producer. And all the titles, really, since no one else is working on this at the moment. I do value ideas, brainstorming, and suggestions, however! Pokemon is a game of possibilities... far too many for one man to come up with them all.

[wyndamn]

Changing the "type chart" of Gen 5 is still on top of my wish list, but the data doesn't seem to be stored in the same form as it used to be up 'til now. I haven't been able to find out how to change effectiveness. If I were able to change the balance of Pokemon types, then of course other types of changes could be minimal and you would still end up with a more balanced game. Unfortunately, since it seems like I cannot do what I want in this area, larger changes elsewhere are necessary to make Pokemon like Kingler or Manectric remotely useful, for instance. Some Pokemon, like Wailord, Tropius, Garbodore and Weezing will never be worth anything compared to Scizor, Tyranitar, Conkeldurr or Gengar... without stat increases. And some stat increases just make sense. I mean, how is it that a giant whale body slamming you hurts far less than a small, flaming ape tackling you?

Editing the effects of abilities is beyond my level of skill. I've never even heard of anyone doing that beyond Gen 3. I try to remain realistic in my goals, since this is a project I want to actually complete someday... besides, the selection of good abilities is WAAAAAAAAY better than Gen 4 now. Not really necessary.

I'm not sure if the habitat data will automatically update itself if the encounter tables are edited or not, but I do know that ever since HGSS, the Pokedex has not been able to be edited to remain 100% accurate when you change what Pokemon appears where.

All the rest of your ideas seem very doable, though

Haha, though I think that I kind of already hold the title of Director, here. And Producer. And all the titles, really, since no one else is working on this at the moment. I do value ideas, brainstorming, and suggestions, however! Pokemon is a game of possibilities... far too many for one man to come up with them all.

Well you understood me that´s what counts lol... i was talking about being the ideas-man, i just wanna see this blossom as soon as possible n_n but just so you know a pokémon with very low stats can be fixed by just giving it a few new toys to play with.

A simple example i did was giving Chatot 2 things; Technician and i also changed the effect of Feather Dance to be a +1 Spa & Spe for the user (which by the way fixes many pokémon who learn the move as well) of course i also removed some moves from overpowered mons, example excadrill is mostly broken because of the sword dance and so is garchomp or thundurus because of nasty plot, so if you remove those moves from them they will be more balanced and will be left unbroken but OU worthy.

Another example is Spinda with Huge Power since it has access to sucker punch and substitute, Return, Dizzy Punch and work up plus other useful moves can prove to become a pain in the ass and the ability suits him perfectly since its pronounced Chika-ra mochi and actually means unrecognized power. As opposed to bulbapedias translation which is very similar but not completely accurate, which makes total sense with the marril concept to be applied on spinda.

Another thing i made was remove some moves some pokémon didnt need that much to make more useful and unique the rest of the other pokémon that do learn it an example of this is toxic is learned by every single pokémon able to learn tm moves, so i removed it from a lot of mons and only left it for the ones that have used it on the anime or that are suitable for it. I also did many interesting changes that may be pretty logical for pokémon like for example Speed Boost for ponyta and rapidash which her pokedex entry mentions acceleration itself which is the correct translantion for speed boost and that is a speedy pokémon as well plus the fact that its not broken on her as opposed to blaziken.

I will pass you the document over a link by PM and we can discuss any changes you think are not that well suited but as i said its better not to mess with stats editing. Just keep in mind my document is not finished yet and still needs some work.

[MarinoKadame]

Changing the "type chart" of Gen 5 is still on top of my wish list, but the data doesn't seem to be stored in the same form as it used to be up 'til now. I haven't been able to find out how to change effectiveness. If I were able to change the balance of Pokemon types, then of course other types of changes could be minimal and you would still end up with a more balanced game. Unfortunately, since it seems like I cannot do what I want in this area, larger changes elsewhere are necessary to make Pokemon like Kingler or Manectric remotely useful, for instance. Some Pokemon, like Wailord, Tropius, Garbodore and Weezing will never be worth anything compared to Scizor, Tyranitar, Conkeldurr or Gengar... without stat increases. And some stat increases just make sense. I mean, how is it that a giant whale body slamming you hurts far less than a small, flaming ape tackling you?

Editing the effects of abilities is beyond my level of skill. I've never even heard of anyone doing that beyond Gen 3. I try to remain realistic in my goals, since this is a project I want to actually complete someday... besides, the selection of good abilities is WAAAAAAAAY better than Gen 4 now. Not really necessary.

I'm not sure if the habitat data will automatically update itself if the encounter tables are edited or not, but I do know that ever since HGSS, the Pokedex has not been able to be edited to remain 100% accurate when you change what Pokemon appears where.

All the rest of your ideas seem very doable, though

Haha, though I think that I kind of already hold the title of Director, here. And Producer. And all the titles, really, since no one else is working on this at the moment. I do value ideas, brainstorming, and suggestions, however! Pokemon is a game of possibilities... far too many for one man to come up with them all.

Problem with Kingler. Manectric. Wailord, Tropius, Garbodore and Weezing they are mostly first evo pokemon and tropius is base, while Scizor, Tyranitar, Conkeldurr or Gengar are mostly second evo with the exception of Scizor ( but he evolve with an item so he's mostly more powerful ), some pokemons never got a second evolution and that's why most of time they are weaker because they don't have the stats of a second evo, some would need retype or even a double type instead of a pure type.

Right now the evolution are mostly Baby > Base > First Evo > Second Evo, most pokemon are Base and don't have a baby form and those having a Baby form don't have a Second Evo. Some pokemons are almost never used since they are Pure type most of time or are only Base with no evo. Some pokemons seem to have been here just to be a joke like Unown who is mostly useless with only Hidden Power. Dunsparce need some love too and most pure normal pokemons aren't that great.

[aninymouse]

I really like the idea of giving Porygon Techno Blast. Liquid Ooze on Smearlge, too, is a great fit.

I don't really see the point in removing Toxic, Thunder Wave & Flash from most Pokemon, though... that's not really leveling the playing field. No one thinks that Thunder Wave makes or breaks a Pokemon.

[wyndamn]

I really like the idea of giving Porygon Techno Blast. Liquid Ooze on Smearlge, too, is a great fit.

I don't really see the point in removing Toxic, Thunder Wave & Flash from most Pokemon, though... that's not really leveling the playing field. No one thinks that Thunder Wave makes or breaks a Pokemon.

I understand, but these are mainly because of pure logic, there are many pokémon who shouldnt learn some of those moves which in the end are not that necessary and also you have to take into account that with the change on the move to being a -2 accuraccy can be annoying as hell to play against if its too widely distributed even though i shrinked the amount of pp of most of the moves so more pokémon can be less abussive with certain moves, reinforce the utility of the ability pressure and also at the same time make the stall battles a little more fast paced and to force the player to think wiser about his moves before making them and ending up with none and struggling.

At the moment im transfering all data to an spreadsheet to organize it better and then pass this to you, so you can start making some changes but as i said we need to discuss further about many others im not sure which ability to put on them from the ones i chosed, because i need feedback on it.

When it comes to thunder wave, too many pokémon who shouldnt learned have it, so its necessary to cut those out to give more importance to other electric types that are less used for this same purpose, because this at the same time raises their utility status and basically the same concept applies for toxic which all pokémon that learn TMs can learn and they shouldnt.

So remember to take a look closely to the changes on moves as well and then analize it in the OU metagame sense and you will understand most of the changes, im also trying to find some new niches that havent been discovered yet to apply them on some pokémon, but this is a little hard to do and takes more time, so ill leave that for the end so we can think of it in group.

[wyndamn]

Problem with Kingler. Manectric. Wailord, Tropius, Garbodore and Weezing they are mostly first evo pokemon and tropius is base, while Scizor, Tyranitar, Conkeldurr or Gengar are mostly second evo with the exception of Scizor ( but he evolve with an item so he's mostly more powerful ), some pokemons never got a second evolution and that's why most of time they are weaker because they don't have the stats of a second evo, some would need retype or even a double type instead of a pure type.

Right now the evolution are mostly Baby > Base > First Evo > Second Evo, most pokemon are Base and don't have a baby form and those having a Baby form don't have a Second Evo. Some pokemons are almost never used since they are Pure type most of time or are only Base with no evo. Some pokemons seem to have been here just to be a joke like Unown who is mostly useless with only Hidden Power. Dunsparce need some love too and most pure normal pokemons aren't that great.

Well i do agree on the part that they are jokes from GF, they just make them cause they are lacking some animal to fill the dex of the region or something alike, however as i proved not all of them need to have stats changes to be fixed. As an example i will use my idea for Luvdisc.

I gave luvdisc the move lovely kiss for logic purposes and to further improve the support given by it, now i also raised the accuracy of the move to 80% and also the accuraccy of supersonic to 90%, she will also learn endeavor by level up. When you couple all of those things together you end up like this:

Luvdisc (F)

Focus Sash/ Swift Swim

Adamant/ Jolly

252 Atk/ 252 spe (0 HP ivs)

Lovely Kiss

Aqua Jet

Endeavor

(Filler) substitute/Supersonic/toxic, etc.

Playing her in rain with doubled speed, first you put one to sleep, then opponents switches and you Endeavor, which should do a lot of damage since luvdisc base Hp is so low. After that you go for a boosted Aqua Jet which may pull a K.O. after the Endeavor. When the next one comes endeavor and Aqua Jet again which may leave you KOing two pokémon and disabling one. take out 3 pokemon easily.

I think she can be further improved, also been considering to add pain split on her since its basically a 2nd option that will also hit ghosts and do some damage and also suits because shes a love reflecting pokémon and love hurts and when it hurts its a share pain for the couple usually if they truly love each other (only using logic). Its not the epithome of power but it does work and at least you acquire the temptation to beat your opponent with it, without the use of batton pass.

btw sorry for double posting.

[MarinoKadame]

Jigglypuff would need some move from Exploud like Synchonoise, Sleep Talk, Screech and Supersonic, because most of her move even with Tm aren't that great compared to most normal pokemons. And why not Soundproof as second ability.

[agreavesny]

I know this is weird but I think it would be cool to have the starters be pokemon you would normally find in-game, I had something odd in mind for starters like Staryu, Cottonee/Petlil (Depending on the game), and maybe a growlithe as the starters, just for variety, and also maybe make like a section that was like a "PokeTransfer leak forest" as some people in bw1 refer to some pokemon having been leaked; maybe to put celebi and shaymin there. Also I like the idea (and ik this is extremely hard) but maybe you could make the types of pokemon change by day (i.e. pidgey and rattata on monday, hoothoot and pichu on tuesday, caterpie and weedle on wednesday, and so forth. It makes it a lot easier to find and catch the many pokemon in the game. All pokemon should evolve by level, and if the poke does evolve by stone or trade it should be at level 30/5 levels after the pokemon first evolves

[MarinoKadame]

Why not have the 3 elemental monkeys as starters and be able to find all gen starters from events or NPC giving them. Much like pokemon yellow have done in the past.

[agreavesny]

I like an idea of instead of starting in unova you choose which region you want to start in, but after beating the champion you have like 5 different games where you leave your pokes behind like ash in the anime just going into a new area and choosing a new starter having no pokemon... I've played all the games and as soon as you're done you wanna restart but keep your pokemon, and 5 different games in one solves that problem imao

[aninymouse]

This is a hack, not a new game. I can only change what's already there... adding new maps and huge blocks of data like that isn't possible.

I don't care for the monkeys much, personally. If they were going to be true starters, I'd have to totally overhaul them. And since they're not impressive to me... not likely. Plus, I'm no sprite artist. I'm not interested at all in making new sprites for the opening sequence.

Gen 5 doesn't have the capacity to change the wild Pokemon by time of day or day of the week... Day of the week seems like a pretty poor idea, since some people can only play on the weekends. At least with monthly seasons, you have the chance to play in all of them on a consistent basis for a while. Time of day, though, is something I miss from the days of Crystal. I really think there's a lot of... a sense of reality afforded to the time of day system. I miss it, but I can't bring it back.

These aren't bad ideas, they're just not for this project.

[MarinoKadame]

You can always add NPC that can give you all the starters, like yellow version. You just need to make some custom quest so it's not that easy to get them. Maybe having old trainers giving them, like getting the 2 other gen 5 pokemon beside yours from Black and White trainers. While others can be, Red, Blue and Green for the first gen. Gold, Silver and Crystal for second. Ruby(Brendan), Sapphire(May) and Emerald. Gen 4 would be Pearl(Barry), Diamond(Lucas) and Platinum(Dawn).

[aninymouse]

A cool idea for Spinda that I had was to make it into a psychoactive drug Pokemon. Hear me out, here. I'm no proponent for drug use, but I was inspired by how Honey Badgers can eat poisonous snakes, get high off the poison, and walk away like nothing happened.

My idea was to edit Poison Gas so that it effects all Pokemon on the field (like Hail or Sunny Day, only not continuously over 5 turns), essentially allowing Spinda to easily poison itself without resorting to a Toxic Orb (although that can be used as well). Making Spinda a Psychic-type doesn't seem too out of the ordinary, considering the spiral eyes and odd mannerisms and proclivity to confusing others or itself. Well, Spinda also will have access to Venoshock, a high Special Attack, and access to the ability Poison Heal. But that's not enough! Spinda also has Facade... but what about STAB? There's the beauty of it. I gave it Psycho Boost and edited the effect to be like a Psychic-type Facade. As a bonus, Spinda can learn Refresh in case it gets burned or paralyzed before it can poison itself. In this way, Spinda carves out a unique niche. His second ability is Toxic Boost, of course, to allow for mixed attacking; however, he will be dying rather quickly due to taking full damage from Poison.

I plan on editing Kecleon's sprite so that it appears mostly transparent in battle. It will also be the game's only Normal/Ghost type, having access to Shadow Force in addition to its usual attacks. Its ability will be either Clear Body or Wonder Skin, since Color Change is probably one of the worst abilities ever made. Even Illuminate it better. I think Prankster would be a great Hidden Ability.

Scolipede... one of my favorites from Gen 5. Scolipede is by far the biggest and chubbiest of the insects, but his stats and abilities that Game Freak gave him seem to be far too underwhelming. What I did was I reduced the number of abilities for this family from three to two (one normal ability, one hidden). Venipede will have Battle Armor. Whirlipede gains Speed Boost (say hello to Roxie for me). Scolipede gains Thick Fat and a considerable boost in stats across the board, in HP, Attack, Defense, and Special Defense. I also increased the level at which it evolves slightly to compensate for Scolipede being a total beast. It's always a treat when a Bug-type can stand toe-to-toe with a Fire-type... and the Ice resistance is a nice touch.

[agreavesny]

I think you should give a few more pokemons quiver dance, like, i dunno... flygon, who could use better stats as well, gardevoir family (but NOT gallade), and spinda i guess

[MarinoKadame]

I like the Ghost/Normal Keckleon type, since it's mostly like a Ghost since he cannot be seen without a proper device normally because of his camouflage. And I don't know if it's a good idea but having Snorlax Normal/Fighting with soem fighting move to be a sumo like fighter can be interesting. I still think Clefairy family should be Normal/Psychic typed tho.

[aninymouse]

Since we can't change the type chart yet in Gen 5, some balancing is required to really make some types more viable. Nearly everyone agrees on this, so the question is often just, "to what extent are you willing to go?"

Poison-types have always been some of my favorites. I'm not sure why, but that is the case. Poison-types also have been among the worst types of all in every generation, from Gen I to Gen V. Part of the problem lies in the sheer numbers. While Poison-types have some good resistances, and their attacks have decent neutral coverage, and the added damage of the Poison ailment is always a help, Poison-type Pokemon just don't measure up. For instance...

*No Poison-type Pokemon has a BST over 535.

*To compare, only Ghost's most powerful, non-Uber Pokemon has a lower BST than Crobat (Dusknoir: 525), but even then, There's Giratina. Poison is the weakest type, stat-wise.

*Of the Poison-types with a BST over 499 (the arbitrary mark that seems to separate the weak from the strong), there are only Crobat (535), Tentacruel (515), Roserade (505), Muk, Gengar & Drapion (500).

*Out of all the Physical Poison-type attacks, only Gunk Shot has a BP at or above 100, and it only has 70% Acc. Most Poison-types can't even learn it.

*Of all the Special Poison-type attacks, Sludge Wave is the strongest at 95 BP. Not too shabby with 100% Acc. But let's face it, not all Poison-types use their Special Attack. Not many can learn it, but most can learn Sludge Bomb at 90 BP.

My solution, of course, is to both bump up some of the BST for Poison-types, but also to bump up the damage that Poison-type attacks do as well.

[MarinoKadame]

Weezing using selfdestruct and explosion is mostly a joke, since they use it most of time as their first move...

[Muppen]

i could help you with wild pokemon editing

[aninymouse]

Sure! Post or PM your ideas, and we can work together.

For instance, an idea I liked was to put Weepinbell & Carnivine somewhere in the Route 8, Moor of Iccirus area. Reason being, carnivorous plants always grow in bogs and freshwater swamps. I always thought Route 8 & Moor of Iccirus were missing their true potential as a robust ecosystem.

Also, I always thought wild Torchic would do really well at Flocessy Ranch. There aren't many Fire-types early on, for one, so why force people to use Tepig? Granted, if you're playing White 2, you can get Magby later. And Growlithe, in either game. But hey, who complains about too many options?