greatest water pokemon(no legendary)

[ALEGUS]

anybody tell me whats pokemon has the best base stats that is the water type ,nice moves,nice everything. For my team

[sly]

lapras is cool

[Destati]

Vaporeon, Swampert, Gyarados, Starmie, Suicune, Kingdra and Tentacruel are the best

[ZMaster]

Vaporeon, Swampert, Gyarados, Starmie, Suicune, Kingdra and Tentacruel are the best

<_< Pikachu.

[Destati]

What about Pikachu? I don't think it has the power to take down any of those

[randomspot555]

Closing. Small questions like this can go in the D/P/Plat general forum, or even the Questions/Help thread.

[Greencat]

Opening back up since this can be complicated. Mainly because it involves your whole team.

Edit in your team, though. This depends on your team greatly. Your team has weaknesses and you need the right water type to cover them.

Next time, though, you can also post your team in here. However, making a new thread for Team Building/RMTs is okay too (Just post your team).

[Destati]

I declare a Mod fight. Also,

Vaporeon, Suicune, Swampert and Tentacruel are tanks. They have high defenses and can heal themselves. They are not the same though, as some learn moves the others do not.

Gyarados, Starmie and Kingdra are sweepers, Gyarados and Kingdra being more of bulky sweepers.

[randomspot555]

Swampert can't heal itself outside of Rest/Talk, which most Pokes get. It does have Refresh, which can remove status.

Suicune doesn't even get Refresh.

Vaporeon is by far the best healer. It absorbs water moves with it's ability, can Wish(pass) and is bulky enough not to care about Toxic/Will O Wisp damage for at least a few turns.

[Destati]

RestTalk is best on water types because of their lack of weaknesses, but is best on Suicune. I've never seen Refresh on a Pokemon not named Wondertomb/eye.

[Greencat]

Refresh is unnecessary on a RestTalk Suicune. ;P

It can simply rest it off and Sleep Talk.

[randomspot555]

RestTalk is best on water types because of their lack of weaknesses, but is best on Suicune. I've never seen Refresh on a Pokemon not named Wondertomb/eye.

Nor have I. But it's not really a perk that just water Pokemon get (RestTalk). Now if it can use Wish, Recover, or other similar HP recovering moves, then I'd say "Oh, it can heal itself too."

I'd say Suicune is the only viable RestTalker. Everyone else has better things to do. Vaporeon can Wishpass, Swampert can actually do damage and attack, and Tentacruel needs to stay awake so it can spin away those rocks.

The other 3 you listed, as you pointed out, are usually much better off playing offense than defense. Though a little bit of bulk can help them out greatly.

[Destati]

yeah. Bulky Sweepers are what dominates this metagame.

[wraith89]

I declare a Mod fight. Also,

Vaporeon, Suicune, Swampert and Tentacruel are tanks. They have high defenses and can heal themselves. They are not the same though, as some learn moves the others do not.

Gyarados, Starmie and Kingdra are sweepers, Gyarados and Kingdra being more of bulky sweepers.

Those bulky waters all have their advantages.

Vaporeon has massive HP and with investment on defense and positive nature on defense, she's able to take physical attacks easily and from the special side (which she doesn't even need investment in for the most part). Vaporeon is also the best team player out of all of these because she can Wish support, Baton Pass bulky substitutes of 101 or higher, Baton Pass Acid Armor for physical defense, and can pseudo-haze by Roaring out stuff. Her base special attack of 110 can deal significant damage to stuff like Infernape or Salamence (Ice Beam) even without any investment. You can also use a Choice Specs set if that appeals to you. Let's not forget her Water Absorb helps HEAL her HP from random Surfs and Waterfalls. She's also able to take a Grass Knot from Infernape thanks to her weight. This is what makes Vaporeon the best of the Eeveelutions now... and she's one of the best bulky water there is. Unfortunately, some of those insanely overpowered sets will still hurt her badly... and she hates Toxic. However, she might be the best bulky water... but handle with care. She does have her counters.

Suicune has better overall defenses than Vaporeon aside from HP and can use Calm Mind to boost his special attack and special defense while he can concentrate on investing on his physical defense and HP to take hits better. He also has Pressure to waste PP very easily. He can also pull off a Resttalk set because of his high defenses. Suicune is known for Roaring away stuff while taking hits in tandem with Spikes, Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock. He's one of those better bulky waters out there... but watch out for random Choice Banded/Spec'd users.

Swampert only has one weakness (albeit a W4) to Grass. She has immunity to Electricity which people tend to forget and resists Rock moves. The mudfish is also better situated in this metagame thanks to her typing: she resists Stealth Rock and is immune to Sandstorm. She counters the usual Tyranitars, Metagross, Donphan, Salamence, Rhyperior, Hippowdon, Aerodactyl... and a lot of other Pokemon. In fact, Swampert was so dangerous back in RSE things just randomly packed HP Grass to take her down (but limited them against others). Those stats don't look too appealing, but usually, they're enough to be usable. One of the most popular sets is the Mixpert set... which hurts both sides of the spectrum. In fact, Swampert doesn't even need to invest any attack EVs to deal damage physically anyways. One Earthquake STILL OHKOs Lucario and Infernape, even with no investment. The huge HP in Swampert also helps. While Grass Knots and Energy Balls are prevalent, they are very predictable and you'll know when they're coming... so just watch out for that and Swampert is fine.

Tentacruel doesn't look too great in paper, but this jellyfish is amazing thanks to one thing: Toxic Spikes. Base 100 speed and 125 special defense is also cool and being able to Rapid Spin and Knock Off makes Tentacruel a supporter. With key resistances to Fighting, Fire, and Bug, this jellyfish can take hits... but unfortunately that's about it. She isn't too strong, but she is one of the best counters to Mixape by taking little damage from Grass Knot and threatening an OHKO (with Life Orb recoil from Infernape) with Surf. Use if you need good spin support or Toxic Spiker or Mixape counter. Otherwise, beware of Earthquake and Thunderbolts and Psychics.

Milotic is also a good bulkywater. One thing separates her from the other bulkywaters and that is Hypnosis. Being able to put stuff to sleep is nice (albeit 60% accurate). If she is status'd, Marvel Scale is activated, which increases her physical defense. But being Toxic'd or burned isn't good when it saps HP, so now what? How about a Resttalk set to increase her defense? That might work. If that doesn't appeal, don't forget Milotic also has an instant HP recovery via "Recover". There's also Mirror Coat when Marvel Scale activates when people are encouraged to use special attacks after her defense increased... and it almost guarantees an OHKO on things. People forget about this serpentine, but she's usable and is always available for you. Just like the others, watch out for Choice item'd things...

Slowbro is bulky in the physical side and has a few things over the others. For one thing, he has Own Tempo, where not only his typing resists Machamp's Dynamicpunch, but Own Tempo also prevents confusion! That's a good thing. He also has an awesome movepool with Grass Knot, Thunder Wave, Flamethrower (?), Psychic, Yawn, Surf, Ice Beam... and also works well in a Trick Room. He is usually used over his cousin Slowking for his physical defense, but Slowking has Nasty Plot. Use him if you want, I'm sure he can provide a lot for you. However, watch out for random Pursuits. Being Psychic unfortunately hampers his role of bulkywater.

Gastrodon looks like a worse Swampert, but check again. There's Recover, which Swampert REALLY covets... and there's Amnesia to help his special defense rise. This Seaslug can also Countercoat effectively with Stockpile and can stall pretty effectively. Unfortunately, he's very slow and has that W4 to Grass, but he's there if you want. Usually, you'd want Swampert, but he's your other viable option. There was someone who pulled off a successful seaslug win!

As for the sweepers:

Starmie is probably the best team player of the sweepers. It has the special attack and movepool to destroy teams with Grass Knot, Boltbeam, Psychic and STAB Surfs, and it also gets an instant form of recovery through Recover. It's greatest asset is probably Rapid Spin where it spins away spikes and all. It's also very fast... and its special attack is very decent. Unfortunately, watch out for Starmie's Pursuit weakness... where Weavile always comes in and Pursuits the poor starfish to death. Remember that and Starmie will be an awesome team player.

Gyarados is your regular Dragon Dancing physical sweeper with Intimidate to help with his overall bulk. He gets STAB Waterfall, Earthquake, Ice Fang, Stone Edge... and of course, there's Taunt to screw over stuff like Blissey. He makes an awesome late game sweeper and is finally a force to be reckoned with. You do NOT want to give your opponent the opportunity to set up a 6 DD Gyarados... but those without Stone Edge/Bite will be forced to switch out from Shedinja Watch out for his weakness to Stealth Rock and his W4 to Electricity, but other than that, he's a very good physical sweeper and is very useful. He's also a lure to bring in a Motor Drive Electivire... so try that out.

Feraligatr may look like a worse Gyarados, but there's some things he can do over Gyarados. For one thing, he gets Ice Punch over Ice Fang. Secondly, he gets Swords Dance to raise attack even higher if that's elected over Dragon Dance. Thirdly, he has the Torrent ability which makes Waterfall VERY powerful when low in HP. He's also not part Flying, which is integral to the fact he's not doubly weak to Electric attacks. Use him if he appeals to you, but usually Gyarados does the job better.

Kingdra works wonders on rain teams, but he's also wonderful by himself with STAB Waterfall, Surf, Outrage, and Dragon Pulse. The Mixed sweeper set is deadly... he can Dragon dance and Rain Dance to boost speed and water attacks. He can seriously destroy walls if used properly, and only has one weakness in Dragon. Unfortunately, none of his stats really excel, but other than that, he's a solid member for your team.

Empoleon's typing is unfortunate where it gives three common weaknesses (Electric, Ground, and Fighting), but look at all those other resistances he get! 12 resistances? That's just beautiful. He's an awesome penguin being able to sweep in the special side with Agility and wall dragons' outrage and counter with Ice Beam. Subpetaya sets rule! There's also his physical Swords Dance user if that appeals to you. But again, watch out for his common weaknesses.

Floatzel is somewhat like Kingdra for being capable of running a mixed set. For some reason, his speed is very high and he has the Swift Swim ability... but that also means you don't need to invest in speed that much anyways! This weasel can break walls if used properly... and Baton Pass Bulk Ups and Agility to friends if needed. He's really good... so try him out, but he's weak in defenses, so watch out.

Slowking is somewhat like Slowbro... but he gets Nasty Plot. Try him if you want, but watch out for Pursuit.

Azumarill has great defenses with 100/80/80 in her statboard. With that 50 base attack, you'd wonder why you'd use her. There's HUGE POWER, which DOUBLES that to effectively base 150 attack power. With Aqua Jet and other physical moves, this rabbit WILL hurt so badly, especially with Choice Band. If Belly Drum appeals to you, try that, but too bad you can't use that with Aqua Jet. Subpunch sets work really well too, so use that if you wish. Bulky 101 Subs are good for they survive Seismic Tosses. Don't underestimate this rabbit: she can put a hole in someone's team for sure.

[Destati]

WRAITH89 used WALL OF TEXT!

Its SUPER EFFECTIVE!

[wraith89]

WRAITH89 used WALL OF TEXT!

Its SUPER EFFECTIVE!

Sorry if people can't read that

[Illithian]

That wall of text is a great post, really. I read through it, and found it quite informative. Might be worth submitting for peer review.

[empoleonmikel]

Yeah, great help especially for me being a noob. thanks Wraith

personally, i always consider empoleon, vaporeon, gyarados and starmie for water-types.

[Enkidu]

Wait...whats the criteria to establish the "best" water type? if its for your team, without knowing what the members are we have no idea what kind of water pokemon you should use.

For the most part refer to what wraith said, but I find that vaporeon's spot is contested with jolteon for best Eevee evolution.

The fastest good subpasser in the game, and also a beautiful late game sweeper with STAB thunderbolt is nothing to just sweep under the rug for another water type.

Not to mention Vaporeon's defenses aren't that great, its just it's massive hp and wish + protect that makes it so survivable. It's also set up fodder for a lot of common sweepers. And with only 4 moves theres no way vaporeon can counter all of them and effectively pass wishes. If used right it serves its purpose well though.

[Phototoxin]

Kingdra or Gyrados though they have secondaries (dragon / flying respectively)