Make gen 3 Pokémon get size 0

[apri]

Hi!

So I just missed my shot at making old pokémon get size 0 in PLA with Home transfer, so now I wonder if there's any other ways. I'm sending Pokémon all the way from gen 3 up to Scarlet & Violet.

Can I in any part of the process, either through the game mechanics themselves of through save editing, alter size/height/weight so that it get's the Tiny mark in Scarlet & Violet? (I mean before the Pokémon is sent to Home, where the app starts to track what's going on)

Edited June 5, 2023 by apri

[theSLAYER]

No real way. HT/WT/Scale is a HOME only thing, and can't be hacked.

If there's any consolation, I have some stuff with 0 in all three stats, despite being transferred up normally. It is a weird scenario.

[apri]

30 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

No real way. HT/WT/Scale is a HOME only thing, and can't be hacked.

If there's any consolation, I have some stuff with 0 in all three stats, despite being transferred up normally. It is a weird scenario.

Oh really!? That could be good news for me!

The Pokémon that you got size 0 on, you transfered those from Bank to Home for the first time after the 3.0 update, right?
And what game/games did you transfer those from and to?

[theSLAYER]

On 6/5/2023 at 11:19 PM, apri said:

Oh really!? That could be good news for me!

The Pokémon that you got size 0 on, you transfered those from Bank to Home for the first time after the 3.0 update, right?
And what game/games did you transfer those from and to?

Tho to be fair the size 0 could be a result of me messing with things way too much.

Those shinies were previously transferred in v2.0.0.

Then proceeded to use a different HOME account to import them into HOME, then out. Then into yet a different HOME account. I only noticed this on my shinies, and not my regular mons, so there's a chance I messed with something somewhere. In any case, it may not be a thing, who knows. No one can properly answer that.

[apri]

2 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

Tho to be fair the size 0 could be a result of me messing with things way too much.

I transferred shinies over in v2.0.0.

Then proceeded to use a different HOME account to import them into HOME, then out. Then into yet a different HOME account. I only noticed this on my shinies, and not my regular mons, so there's a chance I messed with something somewhere. In any case, it may not be a thing, who knows. No one can properly answer that.

Oh I see. But I read that before the 3.0 update, if you transfer any Bank Pokémon through Home to PLA, it would always get size 0. But you're saying that your Pokémon entered Home for the first time in v 2.0, and then before the 3.0 version came out, you didn't actually transfer the Pokémon onwards to any game, they kept just hanging out in different Home accounts during all that time?
 

Now, after the 3.0 update, did you transfer then from Home to any game? If so, what was the first game you transfered them to after they arrived to Home?
Trying to figure out when and where size 0 was assigned

[theSLAYER]

Stuff that has been through HOME before v3.0.0 gets size 0, yes.

Yes but v3.0.0 supposedly gives those Pokémon a proper size. Meaning none of them should be non-zero; it fixes them retroactively.

Why some of them non-zero for me, I can only theorise that it involves me swapping them across different HOME accounts. Maybe they only fix non-zero to HOME existing HOME trackers at that point, and the act of me entering from a HOME (hence getting those assigned different trackers) circumnavigated that.

However I cannot be sure, as not all my old Pokémon are non-zero, only some.

[apri]

55 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

Stuff that has been through HOME before v3.0.0 gets size 0, yes.

Yes but v3.0.0 supposedly gives those Pokémon a proper size. Meaning none of them should be non-zero; it fixes them retroactively.

Why some of them non-zero for me, I can only theorise that it involves me swapping them across different HOME accounts. Maybe they only fix non-zero to HOME existing HOME trackers at that point, and the act of me entering from a HOME (hence getting those assigned different trackers) circumnavigated that.

However I cannot be sure, as not all my old Pokémon are non-zero, only some.

Yeah, it might be something like that. Did you move them to any game after they were in Home?

[theSLAYER]

2 hours ago, apri said:

Yeah, it might be something like that. Did you move them to any game after they were in Home?

I was moving them to and fro. 
originally, they entered HOME A and SWSH, PLA, and LGPE in v2.0.0

After HOME v3.0.0, they entered HOME B, and went to and fro SV, then finally went back in and out of HOME A to have a different HOME tracker.

[apri]

20 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

I was moving them to and fro. 
originally, they entered HOME A and SWSH, PLA, and LGPE in v2.0.0

After HOME v3.0.0, they entered HOME B, and went to and fro SV, then finally went back in and out of HOME A to have a different HOME tracker.

That's a lot of games! I'll try a bit of everything and see if there's any pattern anywhere, regarding how size gets assigned when moving from Home to those games.

If anyone does figure out a pattern of what sizes gets assigned when moving to certain games, feel free to respond in this thread. Like, patterns of what sizes that the Pokémon usually get, or some size determination that seems to be rare. Or if anyone have a gauge of what odds there can possibly be of getting size 0 through Home, maybe 1/16512 or 1/256, that'd also be interesting to know.

[theSLAYER]

@apri I figured out how it works (in terms of why I had mons that were HTWT 0). But you’re probably out of luck.

if you want to keep a Bank transfer Pokémon to have HT/WT 0 (resulting in scale 0) in HOME v3.0.0 (and other stuff, such as old HOME events), it needs to have entered PLA before v3.0.0.

Once it gains a scale, that value sticks, and the HT/WT doesn’t get rerolled. As of now the rerolling is random, as I’ve got clones that gets different values, meaning it’s likely not derived from some other value on the Mon.

---

edit:
If you're looking at the chance to generate a mini/jumbo via HOME, read the Tweet thread

 

[apri]

On 6/7/2023 at 9:43 PM, theSLAYER said:

@apri I figured out how it works (in terms of why I had mons that were HTWT 0). But you’re probably out of luck.

if you want to keep a Bank transfer Pokémon to have HT/WT 0 (resulting in scale 0) in HOME v3.0.0 (and other stuff, such as old HOME events), it needs to have entered PLA before v3.0.0.

Once it gains a scale, that value sticks, and the HT/WT doesn’t get rerolled. As of now the rerolling is random, as I’ve got clones that gets different values, meaning it’s likely not derived from some other value on the Mon.

---

edit:
If you're looking at the chance to generate a mini/jumbo via HOME, read the Tweet thread

 

Thanks! Yeah the first part I was aware of originally, but I thought there was hopefully another unknown way to bypass it or something. But I guess it really was just like that then!

The part about the odds is news to me. Thanks for doing the research, that's helpful to know. I was really hoping it'd be 1/256 for a mini mark, but I guess not then. The fact that you got nothing after 1920 transferred probably means it's the same odds like in Scarlet & Violet, 1/16512 right?

[Desmondcsz]

On 6/7/2023 at 1:43 PM, theSLAYER said:

 

Hey so was wondering, idk how safe this would be but, if you had 2 pokemon with the same home tracker via cloning in BDSP or SwSh, and you sent those to SV, if both of them get different scale size, that should mean it'd be "safe" to edit the scale value in SV, right?

[theSLAYER]

4 hours ago, apri said:

The part about the odds is news to me. Thanks for doing the research, that's helpful to know. I was really hoping it'd be 1/256 for a mini mark, but I guess not then. The fact that you got nothing after 1920 transferred probably means it's the same odds like in Scarlet & Violet, 1/16512 right?

Yea if it’s triangular it is possible 1/16512. But out of all the people that have done it, I’ve not heard reports stating it’s possible, so who knows. 
 

2 hours ago, Desmondcsz said:

Hey so was wondering, idk how safe this would be but, if you had 2 pokemon with the same home tracker via cloning in BDSP or SwSh, and you sent those to SV, if both of them get different scale size, that should mean it'd be "safe" to edit the scale value in SV, right?

Not safe. Whether they’re clones doesn’t matter. HT/WT appears to be assigned randomly (if they didn’t already have it). Don’t edit anything that has a HOME tracker.

[Desmondcsz]

3 hours ago, theSLAYER said:

Not safe. Whether they’re clones doesn’t matter. HT/WT appears to be assigned randomly (if they didn’t already have it). Don’t edit anything that has a HOME tracker.

Bummer, thought that would've been helpful at least.

A bit on that note though, does the HOME tracker take in account OT name? I traded for some mons and their OT changed to HOME once I got them, so was looking into reverting them back to a regular OT.

[theSLAYER]

6 minutes ago, Desmondcsz said:

Bummer, thought that would've been helpful at least.

A bit on that note though, does the HOME tracker take in account OT name? I traded for some mons and their OT changed to HOME once I got them, so was looking into reverting them back to a regular OT.

Once again, don’t edit anything that has been through HOME.

OT was by HOME for sanitisation reason, be it invalid characters, language mismatched characters, censorship, etc.

[Desmondcsz]

5 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

OT was by HOME for sanitisation reason, be it invalid characters, language mismatched characters, censorship, etc.

Man, I wish they'd explain what it was at least. The OTs were literally just names and showed properly before being traded, and in one case, the OT was the exact same name that other pokemon have in my Home as I've traded with the person before.

Anyways, thanks for clearing that up for me even if it was unrelated to this topic.

[theSLAYER]

28 minutes ago, Desmondcsz said:

Man, I wish they'd explain what it was at least. The OTs were literally just names and showed properly before being traded, and in one case, the OT was the exact same name that other pokemon have in my Home as I've traded with the person before.

Anyways, thanks for clearing that up for me even if it was unrelated to this topic.

Yeah they should have. People are just documenting the changes as it happens, wondering why. Anyhow, no worries 

[momoss]

10 hours ago, theSLAYER said:

Once again, don’t edit anything that has been through HOME.

OT was by HOME for sanitisation reason, be it invalid characters, language mismatched characters, censorship, etc.

Just to know, what would be the possible punition for that? Because if so editing non Gen-8/9 Pokémon are basically impossible and illegal now due to Home Tracker?

[SkyLink98]

2 hours ago, momoss said:

Just to know, what would be the possible punition for that?

As of now there are no consequences (this can easily change in the future, if GF/Nintendo wants to). In the past they used to delete clones/invalid mons, but then eventually stopped to. In BDSP we also have a precedent where clones are not allowed to be traded, nor to be deposited in HOME.

Anyways, invalid editings to mons which already have a tracker, or the generation of mons without a Tracker, but that should have one, result in missing and glitchy display info in Pokémon Home.

That's how it works, we can't really do much about it.

2 hours ago, momoss said:

Because if so editing non Gen-8/9 Pokémon are basically impossible and illegal now due to Home Tracker?

Users can generate or edit any Gen <= 7 Pokémon into a Gen 7 game, and transfer them from Bank into Home.

[momoss]

46 minutes ago, SkyLink98 said:

That's how it works, we can't really do much about it.

I see it. I'm low-key afraid because I did change one single Pokémon from non-shiny to shiny in the past before knowing about Home Tracker. While nothing happened,  I'll probably have to delete it and transfer it all the way back from Bank since we can't foresee if GF/Nintendo are going to change this and I don't want to lose my entire Home roster because of one single Pokémon.

Thank you for answering.

[apri]

 

18 hours ago, theSLAYER said:

Yea if it’s triangular it is possible 1/16512. But out of all the people that have done it, I’ve not heard reports stating it’s possible, so who knows. 
 

Not safe. Whether they’re clones doesn’t matter. HT/WT appears to be assigned randomly (if they didn’t already have it). Don’t edit anything that has a HOME tracker.

Interesting question that was asked. But how would Home even be able to tell if the Pokémon received an actual random size, or (an edited) size 0 meanwhile it is in Scarlet & Violet? I thought the Home tracker doesn't track anything meanwhile the Pokémon is in SV, and it only became active once the Pokémon was sent back to Home and leaving Scarlet & Violet. And at that point, the tracker wouldn't really know what happened in Scarlet & Violet, the tracker would just assume whatever size it got, was randomly assigned?

[smhfrrn]

35 minutes ago, apri said:

 

Interesting question that was asked. But how would Home even be able to tell if the Pokémon received an actual random size, or (an edited) size 0 meanwhile it is in Scarlet & Violet? I thought the Home tracker doesn't track anything meanwhile the Pokémon is in SV, and it only became active once the Pokémon was sent back to Home and leaving Scarlet & Violet. And at that point, the tracker wouldn't really know what happened in Scarlet & Violet, the tracker would just assume whatever size it got, was randomly assigned?

That's my question since day 1 of the update but somehow my question got deleted. I prepared a file where I edited my transferred Gen <= 7 Pokémon's HT/WT/S but am hesitant to use it on my SysNAND until we know an answer to that.

[theSLAYER]

5 hours ago, apri said:

And at that point, the tracker wouldn't really know what happened in Scarlet & Violet, the tracker would just assume whatever size it got, was randomly assigned?

And for the record, if the Pokémon's origin isn't a SV game, then absolutely no.

The HT/WT/Scale was GIVEN BY HOME. It is generate/rerolled in HOME. It has the data before it even enters SV.
No offense, I think you have no idea what you're saying, and might be unconsciously bending known facts to fit your mental narrative, to justify you being able to whatever size you want. It is likely an unconscious cognitive bias, and not a personal attack. Just pointing it out before you fully commit to that train of thought.

It is true that if a mon was caught/bred in SV, HOME would absolutely have no way of knowing what size it was supposed to have before entering SV, but then you encounter a different breed of issues: the size is defined by RNG, and what if that RNG state was correlated, and became public knowledge after? Changing HT/WT/Scale could break that.

A lot of people in Gen 8 didn't know there were RNG correlations (cause at that time it wasn't discovered), and all the edits became illegal.
So both sides (pre-HOME and post-HOME) of the coin you're causing trouble for yourself.
 

5 hours ago, apri said:

I thought the Home tracker doesn't track anything

Literally keeps tracks of data structures. HOME probably doesn’t assign the space for every piece of data to a user, but instead give all of them a list of trackers regarding what mons a user has, done for space saving purposes. In any case I’m not too interested in discussing how to beat HOME’s TOS; this feels like it’s slowly moving to that direction.
 

4 hours ago, smhfrrn said:

but am hesitant to use it on my SysNAND until we know an answer to that.

You probably shouldn’t. When a HOME Tracker changes (if it mutates data from a previously valid tracker), it Carries forward all valid data from the previous tracker. That said, HOME could easily bring forward the previous tracker too, making a chain of trackers. Meaning they can follow the chain to find the first entry point, and see who is the first device that brought stuff over.

---

I feel like I've already tackled the original queries, plus more, in this thread.
Any last questions from the people that are in this thread, before I lock this thread?

[apri]

45 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

And for the record, if the Pokémon's origin isn't a SV game, then absolutely no.

The HT/WT/Scale was GIVEN BY HOME. It is generate/rerolled in HOME. It has the data before it even enters SV.
No offense, I think you have no idea what you're saying, and might be unconsciously bending known facts to fit your mental narrative, to justify you being able to whatever size you want. It is likely an unconscious cognitive bias, and not a personal attack. Just pointing it out before you fully commit to that train of thought.

It is true that if a mon was caught/bred in SV, HOME would absolutely have no way of knowing what size it was supposed to have before entering SV, but then you encounter a different breed of issues: the size is defined by RNG, and what if that RNG state was correlated, and became public knowledge after? Changing HT/WT/Scale could break that.

A lot of people in Gen 8 didn't know there were RNG correlations (cause at that time it wasn't discovered), and all the edits became illegal.
So both sides (pre-HOME and post-HOME) of the coin you're causing trouble for yourself.

Oh, you totally misunderstood. I personally wasn't at all looking to actually edit a Pokémon after it entered Home. I don't have a CFW Switch and I as I wrote in my original post, I'm not interested in editing a Pokémon with Home trackers and troublesome things like that. I was just curious of the mechanics of how the Home tracker works and where the size gets assigned, which is apparently in Home, and this I had no idea of. I thought it was in SV. Well, that's good to know.

[theSLAYER]

Fair enough.

Yup, HT/WT gets assigned in HOME.
And when the mon enters SV, it copies HT to the variable Scale, before it enters SV (Scale is used by SV to visually show sizes of stuff)

The only time SV gives HT/WT of stuff, is for stuff that is generated in SV, so it wouldn't apply to stuff caught/bred outside of SV.