In-depth Gen 6 + 7 legality questions

[N]

I just want to be sure. :]

 

Do Gen 6 and/or 7...

... use extra bytes?

... have special trash bytes or are PKHeX ones 100% legal?

... have special PIDs or is PKHeX PID generator 100% legal?

... have special encryption constants or are PKHeX ones 100% legal?

Legal obviously here means what it did for all generations: hacked, but identical to legits.

I'm thinking of the special PID generations of Gen 3 to 5 which made legal PIDs quite annoying to accomplish (legal PIDs, not just working ones).

 

In the past it was kinda unknown but I watched Kaphotics and SciresM newest Battle RNG so I guess you guys have the knowledge now.

 

Thanks for your honest answers.

Edited December 6, 2016 by TurtokDerFette

[theSLAYER]

38 minutes ago, TurtokDerFette said:

Legit obviously here means what it did for all generations: hacked, but identical to legals.

I frankly don't think PID generation is tied to anything obvious any more,
or if GF/TPCi will be bothered to reverse calculate your PID.

My concern here is with what I quoted.
That is backwards.

Legitimate: What the word means. Completely not hacked, nor extracted with unintended means etc.
Legal: Edited to match boundaries possible in the game.
Illegal: Things that cannot happen (such as shiny locked Legends being Shiny etc.)

[White Canary]

39 minutes ago, TurtokDerFette said:

Do Gen 6 and/or 7...

... have special trash bytes or are PKHeX ones 100% legit?

I don't think you know what trash bytes even are since it's pretty obvious just from using PKHeX that they don't exist anymore.

[Sonsaa]

I'm not sure how Sun/Moon work data wise, but to ensure your Pokemon are legal you can go through extra effort.

Like for breedable Pokemon, make a perfect ditto and perfect mon, then breed them, and the resulting egg should be fine (it's like a 1/6 chance to get what you want, depending).

 

I don't know if that level of work is necessary though. I recently registered to ask a similar question about whether doing something like editing a nature will result in a legal Pokemon, so I figured I would post here.

EDIT: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Personality_value I found this page to be useful. It seems nature is its own seperate byte, so if you take a legitimate pokemon and edit its nature, it'll still be legal.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Sonsaa

[N]

I'm just asking for a quality discussion of pre x/y times, when rng abuse still was a thing. I don't care for ethics or "it does not matter". I just want to know if these things still interfere with making perfect hacks.

And yes, I just mix up legit with legal and I'm ashamed, but let's not get on my level in this regard. Opening is fixed.

If you are against making hacks undetectable that's fine, but please don't use this thread to spout out your agenda.

I'm also fully aware of GF not caring for this. They don't even care for obvious hacked balls (dream ball aegislash in VGC), but I care, hence this thread.

Trash bytes still exist in PKHeX, it just calculates them in the back. Please don't answer when you got no clue.

That bulbapedia link looks interesting, but I don't think it proves that PID in Gen 6/7 is truly only connected to shinyness, even when PKHeX treats it so.

Thanks already for your quick answers guys. :]

Edited December 6, 2016 by TurtokDerFette

[Ra1d]

24 minutes ago, TurtokDerFette said:

I'm just asking for a quality discussion of pre x/y times, when rng abuse still was a thing. I don't care for ethics or "it does not matter". I just want to know if these things still interfere with making perfect hacks.

And yes, I just mix up legit with legal and I'm ashamed, but let's not get on my level in this regard. Opening is fixed.

If you are against making hacks undetectable that's fine, but please don't use this thread to spout out your agenda.

I'm also fully aware of GF not caring for this. They don't even care for obvious hacked balls (dream ball aegislash in VGC), but I care, hence this thread.

Trash bytes still exist in PKHeX, it just calculates them in the back. Please don't answer when you got no clue.

That bulbapedia link looks interesting, but I don't think it proves that PID in Gen 6/7 is truly only connected to shinyness, even when PKHeX treats it so.

Thanks already for your quick answers guys. :]

What is there to discuss about ?If it lets you go online = legal, if not then not.

[Derpentine]

The reason things like PokeSav and PKHeX can exist is that folks have put a lot of time and effort into researching and understanding the underlying functions, storage, math, etc. that govern the game. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have a knowledge discussion about what goes on under the hood. Shrugging and saying, "Whelp, whatever. It works." and not caring why may be perfectly fine for some, but don't fault those who want to go further.

That said, maybe the R&D subforum would be a better place for such a discussion?

[Ra1d]

29 minutes ago, Derpentine said:

. Shrugging and saying, "Whelp, whatever. It works."

If you are still at a point where you're using PkHeX in this way, then you could nicely ask for a tutorial to explain to you how to make a legal pokemon, although there are many videos and written tutorials on how to do this. It has nothing to do with Extra Bytes/Trash Bytes or any other stuff you're not supposed to care about. Devs made PkHeX/PokeSav simplified for a reason.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Ra1d

[N]

Sad.

[Sabresite]

@TurtokDerFette, Gen 6/7 has been hacked enough to know how generation works.

I think this thread has become toxic enough. In the spirit of not wanting to issue warnings, I am going to close this discussion, sorry.

I suggest getting on IRC and Kaph/others can help answer questions for you!