Starters in Sinnoh: Which one to choose

[pokemonfan]

Ok then sorry if I got all upset.

[Midnight]

I chose Piplup, more because of an inside joke between me and some of my Skype friends.

[4/12/2009 11:07:08 PM]linkth2mast3r: captain piplup

[4/12/2009 11:02:50 PM]nazo64: PIPLUP THE KING

...yeah.

[pokemonfan]

Cool! I've always chosen the water starter unless it was to restart the game so I could get the starter on another one of my games.

[Zengetsu]

Turtwig is actually a very good pokemon especially its dual type most people I've herd talk about getting Chimchar because you need a fire pokemon thats not true especially in Platinum all pokemon have other weaknesses besides fire types

[Greencat]

Houndoom also has been added as well as Flareon. Of course, I would go with Houndoom before Rapidash and Flareon. I think I might just go catch one and train it for the fun of it.

[Zengetsu]

ya it has which is awesome because houndoom is one of my fav pokes but I was just getting at its not necessary to have a fire type

[The 4th Hokage]

i always go with Fire starters except for mudkip

[Hydra_]

Chimchar would be the best starter just evolve it before going to the 1st gym and mach punch the guys pokemon.

[pokemonfan]

Ok then. The discussion is losing its point now but I guess its continuation will hopefully bring up more good points.

[Zengetsu]

I dont see why so many people like Chimchar hes horrible for online play

[pokemonfan]

Well maybe chimchar but not infernape. Haven't you been reading all the posts on this forum and that of Piplup or Chimchar. Good points have been made and by what I've read Infernape owns the whole competition!

[Zengetsu]

just cuz hes got speed but he can be taken out really easily and I'm no n00b btw I very aware of Infernape's pros and cons

[Greencat]

Personally, my competitive team was never swept by more than 2 Pokes from an Infernape.

[Zengetsu]

really? thats surprising you must be a impressive battler once i get my team I need to battle you

[pokemonfan]

Well at least that is the impression I got from all of this discussion and argument.

[pennypenny123]

Turtwig! Grass is one of my most favorite types ever! And Once it evolves into Grotle then Torterra, there's no stopping it! Well except for fire and flying. But I still think Torterra is awesome!

[pokemonfan]

Agreed, grass types have always been one of my favorites. How they can weaken you so easily throughout the battle and stay strong is amazing. Like:

Leech seed+mega drain+poison=one dead foe and one still strong grass type!

[Greencat]

really? thats surprising you must be a impressive battler once i get my team I need to battle you

Yup, and I tend to have some Steel Pokes.

I have a new team though, that I want to test out ATM.

[wraith89]

In my first playthrough I picked Turtwig because my friend picked Chimchar and I wished to challenge him with someone weak to the other type. Now in Platinum I picked the water type as usual because I always pick the Water type (and occasionally the grass type), despite Water types being very abundant in-game.

However, I realized something odd about the Sinnoh starters: all of them will eventually have advantage against each other. Torterra's STAB Earthquake can harm Infernape, although Infernape will almost always strike first and hit Torterra with STAB Flamethrower. Infernape will strike Empoleon first with STAB Super Effective Close Combats although Empoleon can Surf Infernape. Unfortunately for the Steel penguin, Infernape will almost always strike first, and against the Agility Set Infernape can Mach Punch. Empoleon, although he doesn't learn it naturally, can strike a 4x effective Ice Beam against Torterra and will almost always strike first. If Empoleon lacks Ice Beam, Torterra will usually beat Empoleon with STAB Earthquakes.

For in-game, however, I realized that Turtwig is okay for the most part in-game, that Chimchar according to my friend will dominate, but Piplup will do considerably worse because his only STAB move will be the weak Bubble... and will not learn Bubblebeam until much later at around level 22 (I think) when he is a Prinplup. Yes he gets Metal Claw at level 16 when he is a Prinplup but Prinplup should not be a physical attacker and Metal Claw won't really help much for the remainder of the game. He is basically relegated to learning TMs and HMs in order to do well, such as learning Grass Knot (oddly), Ice Beam from the Game Corner (which is 10K coins!!) and Surf, which is basically almost always stuck on some Water type. Flash Cannon can be useful from Empoleon's STAB and killer special attack, but it lacks type coverage other than random Ice types, but it is usually not worth a moveslot. In order to get Empoleon's full special sweeping potential, one normally has to breed it with a Floatzel (provided you have a female Empoleon) to get Agility to fix the steel penguin's only but strange speed problem (a slow as Swampert penguin?). Some people I know run a SubPetaya set. Piplup is hard to train in-game, but if trained well, he will be a reckoned force in Wifi.

Chimchar has a clear upper hand against the other starters owing to the fact he learns Nasty Plot at level 22 (if you did not evolve it) and can learn Calm Mind naturally as Infernape. He even has the stats put in the right places to dominate, both in game and competitively. That's why I don't like him... but everyone can use him and he is a VERY effective wall breaker. Oddly, he learns Grass Knot...

[Jayc]

It's kind of strange how many people keep talking about how Empoleon's bad against Infernape and Torterra and never considered how many resistances it has. I'd thought this was a thread about which starter would best which and not which starter is the best overall.

Granted, it's weak to very common types, but it's there. Since I use Empoleon on a Trick Room team, Speed isn't a problem either. But it also has not-so-stellar STAB typings (Steel makes a horrible offensive type) and a limited Special movepool (only saved somewhat by Ice's effectiveness).

Infernape, Infernape. It's like an Empoleon juxt., only with more juice. Excellent STAB typing, great movepool (always wondered why Fighting-types usually get those), high Speed and high offensive capabilities.

It's a tie for me between Infernape and Empoleon, but I'd say Infernape is the best overall. Never liked it as much as Empoleon, though, it's too straightforward IMO. I find things like a Victreebel outspeeding Speed Forme Deoxys far more interesting than the said Deoxys itself.

[wraith89]

It's kind of strange how many people keep talking about how Empoleon's bad against Infernape and Torterra and never considered how many resistances it has. I'd thought this was a thread about which starter would best which and not which starter is the best overall.

Granted, it's weak to very common types, but it's there. Since I use Empoleon on a Trick Room team, Speed isn't a problem either. But it also has not-so-stellar STAB typings (Steel makes a horrible offensive type) and a limited Special movepool (only saved somewhat by Ice's effectiveness).

Infernape, Infernape. It's like an Empoleon juxt., only with more juice. Excellent STAB typing, great movepool (always wondered why Fighting-types usually get those), high Speed and high offensive capabilities.

It's a tie for me between Infernape and Empoleon, but I'd say Infernape is the best overall. Never liked it as much as Empoleon, though, it's too straightforward IMO. I find things like a Victreebel outspeeding Speed Forme Deoxys far more interesting than the said Deoxys itself.

Empoleon may be more useful nowadays because of his resistance to that overly rampant Outrage. Empoleon has a LOT of resistances and takes neutral damage from only Grass and Fire ironically, but his only three weaknesses are VERY common (Electric, Fighting and Ground)... which is what turns people down from him. I use Agility with Empoleon to help his speed problems though and he can switch in to the other many resists he has to set up with that. Immunity to Poison and 4x resist to Ice isn't bad either, nor are his defenses terrible. I only wish he had a better support movepool.

Infernape is just always ready to sweep and destroys unexpected teams, but I like Empoleon better. Infernape is just everywhere and boring.

[Jayc]

Infernape is just always ready to sweep and destroys unexpected teams, but I like Empoleon better. Infernape is just everywhere and boring.

Unexpected teams? You mean he'd like a Trick Room team ?

Well, actually he would if he was an SD + Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave monkey, but it's a meh for the part with Close Combat. Never seen one without Close Combat. It's like this HM move that can't be Move Deleter'ed.

[wraith89]

Unexpected teams? You mean he'd like a Trick Room team ?

Well, actually he would if he was an SD + Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave monkey, but it's a meh for the part with Close Combat. Never seen one without Close Combat. It's like this HM move that can't be Move Deleter'ed.

LOL. I meant he'd come in teams who did not expect him to crash the party. And of course, a Trick Room team would completely ruin him (although priority moves STILL work under Trick Rooms). I absolutely love to Thunder Wave Infernapes as long as I'm not at the wrong end.

[Jayc]

LOL. I meant he'd come in teams who did not expect him to crash the party. And of course, a Trick Room team would completely ruin him (although priority moves STILL work under Trick Rooms). I absolutely love to Thunder Wave Infernapes as long as I'm not at the wrong end.

Wouldn't it be 'unexpecting teams', then? Eh, never mind, who cares about grammar these days .

Hmm... I'm assuming that you use Jolteon/Manectric for TW?

[wraith89]

Wouldn't it be 'unexpecting teams', then? Eh, never mind, who cares about grammar these days .

Hmm... I'm assuming that you use Jolteon/Manectric for TW?

I actually care a LOT about grammar... and not really. I have both but I seldomly use them. My Thunder Waver is one of my four Froslasses (who couldn't switch into Infernape's Fire attacks anyways). I also have a Thunder Waving Slowbro and Bibarel.