My first sand storm team (Wi-Fi, OU, standard rules)

[randomspot555]

All art is from random google search and hosted via free image hosting. Most of it is chosen for the creep factor. But credit is given when I know who to give it to.

Starting out is:

Bugman the Flygon w/ Choice Scarf

Adamant

Levitate

82 HP/252 atk/176 speed

- Earthquake/Fire Punch

- Outrage

- U-Turn

- Thunder Punch

My beautiful lead. I originally had many more EVs dumped into HP so I could outrun Lead Aerodactyl, but then I figured that I wanted this guy around to be my all around revenge killer.

Even though Earthquake gets STAB, I started out using Fire Punch to revenge kill Scizor. And my thought process is Heatran is never going to stay in on EQ anyway. But I've found it to be more than useful in a few Wi-Fi matches and Battle Tower runs.

I almost always U-Turn right out, since Flygon usually can't score a KO. Then I switch to an appropriate counter. It hits 420 speed, so it really doesn't have anything else to outrun as a lead, besides the occasional Scarf Gengar.

Usually, I u-Turn out to this d00d:

Weird the Bronzong w/ Light Clay or Leftovers

Careful

Levitate

88 HP/252 atk/110 Defense/60 Special Defense

- Reflect

- Stealth Rock/Light Screen

- Explosion

- Hypnosis

Comes in on Flygon, sets up Stealth Rock. Maybe fire off a Hypnosis and sets up a Screen. I've been contemplating Leftovers, since fire moves are running rampant, and what's the point in having a screen or two if you can't survive to set it up.

252 atk is just for a powerful explosion, though I'm considering making it less to get some more bulk out of it.

Hypnosis is chosen because Bronzong can usually afford to take some hits, so it can afford to miss once.

*credit to Arkeis*

ICANFLY! the Claydol w/ Leftovers

Bold

Levitate

252 HP/252 DEF/6 Sp Atk

- Calm Mind

- Ice Beam

- Earth Power

- Rapid Spin

While none of my team is weak to SR, it still piles up damage. And it's nice to get rid of spikes. This d00der comes in on Skarmory, takes no damage from spikes and resists SR, spins away, and after a few Calm Minds, can take special hits pretty well. I am considering some EVs in Sp Def, so any recommendations are welcome.

The attacks are the best I could do. Ice Beam prevents dragons (sans Kingdra) from coming in unharmed, while Earth Power is there so Heatran won't get the last laugh.

The star of the team:

*Credit to Deviant Art, to give the "talented" artists a place to be restricted to.

Wizard the Tyranitar w/ Leftovers

Careful

Sand Stream

74 HP/252 atk/8 Def/176 Sp Def

- Curse

- Sub

- Brick Break/Fire Punch

- Crunch

I originally had Fire Punch, but then it wasn't doing me much. With Brick Break, I can hit Scizor for neutral damage, and Heatran for SE. Crunch for STAB and it has more PP than Payback. And I chose Brick Break over Superpower because of the defense/atk drop, and to break down screens.

This guy is so awesome. Screw the DD set. Curse is where it's at. All it really needs is other Pokes to come in and take care of status.

I am considering lowering the attack to sink more either into defense or HP.

I'm already covered on special defense due to Claydol, and my 6th member.

The key to playing Tyranitar is to not come in too early. Too early, and it could get hit with status, or someone has a great counter. Both of these make it harder to get 2-3 Curses in. Also, because two attacks don't allow a lot for coverage.

Heatran w/ Choice Scarf

Modest

Flash Fire

252 sp atk/252 speed/6 HP

- Fire Blast

- Dark Pulse

- Earth Power

- Will O Wisp/Overheat/Heat Wave/

Standard set. It's also a revenge killer, but it's mainly here to take poison and fire hits, because my origianl team had a massive fire (And bug) weakness. I'm probably going to end up going for a more defensive set, perhaps a RestTalker. Suggestions are welcome.

Heatran's move pool kind of sucks. The 4th slot here is basically filler. Overheat can burn at 30%, Will O Wisp if I think I'm forcing a switch, Heat Wave because why not?

*Credit to DEviant Art for creepy picture*

Suicune w/ Leftovers

Bold

Pressure

252 HP/252 Def (no others, from a trade from eons ago)

- Calm Mind

- Protect

- Ice Beam

- Surf

Not only was my old team heavily fire weak, but it was bug weak too. Which meant Scizor could rip through it. So here is my check on Scizor.

Since it already needs 2 calm minds to do any worthwhile damage to non SE hits, I'm thinking of turning it into a complete support set. Or maybe digging through my boxes and see if I have any other options so I can EV train a new one to run Calm Mind.

Mybe this 252/252 spread could run a nice Mirror Coat, Swagger, Roar, Toxic set?

It might get replaced by Marvel Scale Rest Talk Milotic. Maybe.

Overall, I got the following things covered with my team:

Status: No one can really absorb sleep or paralysis, unless I change Suicune or Heatran to RestTalk. But Suicune won't mind the paralysis, and T-Tar's sub prevents status altgoether. Heatran absorbs fire, and all steels absorb toxic.

Other weaknesses: Bronzong and Flygon cover ground weakness, Heatran covers fire and can take a variety of other hits, Suicune doesn't resist much but is incredibly bulky.

Flygon revenge kills like nothing matters.

Tyranitar will stay out of danger so it can keep changing weather patterns in my favor.

My original team included the following:

Skarmory w/ Leftovers

Impish

Keen Eye

252 HP/252 DEF/6 sp DEF

- Roost/Counter

- Stealth Rock

- Spikes

- Roar

I quickly ditched Counter because I wasn't taking much damage from physical attacks. It served it's purpose well, but it mostly just sat there. It could still be viable on this team, but I'm not sure how beneficial it would be. This is why Bronzong now carries SR. Though if I continue to fail to set up screens and explode, this guy might make his way back.

Torterra w/ Leftovers

Impish

Overgrow

212 HP/252 DEF/44 Speed

- Leech Seed

- Protect

- Earthquake

- Wood Hammer

Standard set from Smogon. 44 Speed didn't help at all in outrunning Swampert. I guess most are running more speed nowadays. Otherwise it just added another fire and bug AND Ice weak Poke. I got Leech Seed off quite a few times, but I'm not sure how worth it it was. It could force switches because of Leech Seed, but other Pokes can do that too.

So, go on, rate the team.

[Enkidu]

Flygon wants Jolly and 180 speed EV's to be able to revenge kill all salamence that do no not run more than 176 Speed and a positive speed nature EV's after 1 dragon dance.

However what you actually want is Jolly and 220 Speed EV's, Why? Because this lets you outrun ALL salamence and Modest Choice scarf Gengar. That makes Flygon a real all around revenge killer.

Also STAB earthquake > Fire punch on Flygon. STAB on earthquake and Outrage is what makes running jolly even an option as his attack stat is less than Stellar.

Now bronzong really does need his bulk

But try out this set

Bronzong @ Light clay

144 Hp/144 Attack/220 Special defense

Careful with levitate

Earthquake

Explosion/Hypnosis

Reflect

Light screen

Because most of his EV's are sunk in Special defense, setting up reflect first makes this guy pretty hard to kill, just watch out for fire attacks. Earthquake lets you hit incoming heatran/magnezone/infernape/lucario all for super effective damage.

Despite claydol's good stats, great ability and wonderful movepool. HE DOES NOT MAKE A GOOD SPECIAL WALL! He's one of my favorite pokemon, but as he's 2x weak to Ice/grass/water/ghost AND dark even his great special defense doesn't help him too much as all of those are common special attacking types. His two immunities are useful for switching in, but without at least 1 Calm mind he's not going to be scoring a lot of damage outside of super effective hits. Letting things like tyranitar ( who will pursuit your or set up a DD in your face ) and claydol's many other counters, switch in for free.

However if you just use claydol to setup utilities like bronzong and counter a few specific sweepers I'm sure it does work. Just don't rely on him to wall special attacks in a pinch.

On heatran, being locked into will o wisp against something like Curse Lax/Curse tar or CM suicune can be the end of a game for you, CHange that move to Magma storm if you want a high rick high reward attack or flash cannon for more coverage. ( Hidden power grass/Electric work well too. )

Also change his nature to Timid/Hasty otherwise choice scarf Adamant heracross outspeeds you.

Whew, anyway I've gotta go. Someone else can pick up where I left off.

[randomspot555]

Flygon wants Jolly and 180 speed EV's to be able to revenge kill all salamence that do no not run more than 176 Speed and a positive speed nature EV's after 1 dragon dance.

Can I still hit that with Adamant, just with more speed EV investment? Because without Adamant's extra power, then it's role is greatly reduced. It can currently knock around Pokemon with a good chunk of health remaining. Losing Adamant means it's stuck finishing off sashed Pokes.

However what you actually want is Jolly and 220 Speed EV's, Why? Because this lets you outrun ALL salamence and Modest Choice scarf Gengar. That makes Flygon a real all around revenge killer.

I didn't know what the EV spread would be to outrun what's arguably the fastest Choice Scarf Poke around (Besides Timid gengar, of course). However, I rarely see Scarf Gengar, of any variety, on Wi-Fi. I'll keep it in mind if I need to modify my team if/when I do start seeing it, but until then, I don't see a point in aiming for it as a speed taget.

Also STAB earthquake > Fire punch on Flygon. STAB on earthquake and Outrage is what makes running jolly even an option as his attack stat is less than Stellar.

It's basically there to one-shot Scizor. But realistically, it's less useful than EQ, and isn't needed now that I have Heatran.

Now bronzong really does need his bulk

But try out this set

Bronzong @ Light clay

144 Hp/144 Attack/220 Special defense

Careful with levitate

Earthquake

Explosion/Hypnosis

Reflect

Light screen

Because most of his EV's are sunk in Special defense, setting up reflect first makes this guy pretty hard to kill, just watch out for fire attacks. Earthquake lets you hit incoming heatran/magnezone/infernape/lucario all for super effective damage.

I'll probably start running something like this. But can Scarf Heatran OHKO this Bronzong with Fire Blast?

Despite claydol's good stats, great ability and wonderful movepool. HE DOES NOT MAKE A GOOD SPECIAL WALL! He's one of my favorite pokemon, but as he's 2x weak to Ice/grass/water/ghost AND dark even his great special defense doesn't help him too much as all of those are common special attacking types. His two immunities are useful for switching in, but without at least 1 Calm mind he's not going to be scoring a lot of damage outside of super effective hits. Letting things like tyranitar ( who will pursuit your or set up a DD in your face ) and claydol's many other counters, switch in for free.

It isn't there as a special wall (Suicune, and to a lesser extent, Tyrantar, fill that role), but as a spinner. Even though nothing I have is weak to SR, repeated switch ins can take it's tole. And an immunity to Toxic Spikes is handy, since my team isn't 100% status proof.

Calm Mind is there more to up it's sp atk than it's Sp Defense. Tyranitar would be welcome to come in, since it'll still let me get Rapid Spin out of it's system.

I'll look into it's move sets further to see if other support options are viable.

The only other viable sand storm spinner is Donphan, who takes damage from Spikes and gets poisoned. And I'd rather have my spinner be able to stay alive.

On heatran, being locked into will o wisp against something like Curse Lax/Curse tar or CM suicune can be the end of a game for you,

That's why switching was invented :creep:. In times that I can force a switch and burn the inevitable physical EQ user that comes in, it's a great assistance. And really, it's just there. Heatran, outside of HP [whatever] (which, as I've said in other threads, isn't common in the Wi-Fi environment) doesn't have much else. So having it there as sort of a thing I do when I force a switch, or a last ditch effort, I see it as fine.

If it ever did come down to Lax, Tyranitar, or Suicune, vs Heatran, it's game over, no matter what.

CHange that move to Magma storm if you want a high rick high reward attack or flash cannon for more coverage. ( Hidden power grass/Electric work well too. )

However, Flash Cannon might work out. Hmmm.

But I was thinking of a more bulky, defensive sets. Got any up your sleeves?

Also change his nature to Timid/Hasty otherwise choice scarf Adamant heracross outspeeds you.

I like the extra power, and I wouldn't stay in on someone who has access to STAB Close Combat AND Earthquake anyway.

What I really need are thoughts on Heatran and Suicune, and anything you all would change about it.

EDIT: Though now reading my wording on Claydol, I certainly do see how you can think it is a special wall. I'll modify it to avoid further confusion.

[Enkidu]

The only other viable sand storm spinner is Donphan, who takes damage from Spikes and gets poisoned. And I'd rather have my spinner be able to stay alive.

Fortress? Anything stuck into outrage or a non fire physical attack is walled to death by this guy, he is affected by spikes, but not toxic spikes and can setup his own spikes and toxic spikes, rapid spin and then blow up on something when he's done, his only problem is that he gets trapped by magnezone.

Can I still hit that with Adamant, just with more speed EV investment? Because without Adamant's extra power, then it's role is greatly reduced. It can currently knock around Pokemon with a good chunk of health remaining. Losing Adamant means it's stuck finishing off sashed Pokes.

Well Flygon has to result to using neutral hits with STAB outrage or super effective hits with Earthquake to really kill much, Thunderpunch is there only to revenge kill weakened starmie/Tentacruel/Gyarados and U-turn isn't supposed to kill things( aside from typical dragon counters who are weak to bug, like celebi and Choice scarf starmie ), but weaken them enough for either someone else to sweep, or put them into kill range for Flygon's Choice scarf outrage.

And although the power drop from Adamant to jolly is a big one, your team is overall full of "bulky" sweepers. meaning in terms of synergy Flygon seems to need that extra speed in order to kill take out serious threats to your team.

The only other viable sand storm spinner is Donphan, who takes damage from Spikes and gets poisoned. And I'd rather have my spinner be able to stay alive.

Fortress? Anything stuck into outrage or a non fire physical attack is walled to death by this guy, he is affected by spikes, but not toxic spikes and can setup his own spikes and toxic spikes, rapid spin and then blow up on something when he's done, his only problem is that he gets trapped by magnezone.

Can I still hit that with Adamant, just with more speed EV investment? Because without Adamant's extra power, then it's role is greatly reduced. It can currently knock around Pokemon with a good chunk of health remaining. Losing Adamant means it's stuck finishing off sashed Pokes.

Well Flygon has to result to using neutral hits with STAB outrage or super effective hits with Earthquake to really kill much, Thunderpunch is there only to revenge kill weakened starmie/Tentacruel/Gyarados and U-turn isn't supposed to kill things( aside from typical dragon counters whoa re weak to bug, liek celebi and Chocie scarf starmie ), but weaken them enough for either someone else to sweep, or put them into kill range for Flygon's Choice scarf outrage.

And although the power drop from Adamant to jolly is a big one, your team is overall full of "bulky" sweepers. meaning in terms of synergy Flygon seems to need that extra speed in order to kill take out serious threats to your team.

I like the extra power, and I wouldn't stay in on someone who has access to STAB Close Combat AND Earthquake anyway.

Scarf'd pokemon that are mean to revenge kill mid game, and sweep late game like Scarf Hera and ScarfTran are meant to be the "final" pokemon left usually.

Timid heatran needs stealth rocks damage to assure a OHKO on that bronzong.

Use this spread

252 hp/18 attack/240 special defense @ Sassy/calm/Careful

To always survive one fire blast from timid heatran after SR damage, with no leftovers.

That's why switching was invented . In times that I can force a switch and burn the inevitable physical EQ user that comes in, it's a great assistance. And really, it's just there. Heatran, outside of HP [whatever] (which, as I've said in other threads, isn't common in the Wi-Fi environment) doesn't have much else. So having it there as sort of a thing I do when I force a switch, or a last ditch effort, I see it as fine.

Switching lets your opponent get a free hit in, and assuming your opponent is stupid and is going to waste that opportunity is no way to build a team for neither shoddy or wifi. But if you simply use an attack on an easy to predict switch, the match can be turned in your favor in a single turn.

Calm Mind is there more to up it's sp atk than it's Sp Defense. Tyranitar would be welcome to come in, since it'll still let me get Rapid Spin out of it's system.

Thats just a waste of a moveslot then, Not to mention tyranitar single handedly makes a variety of pokemon useless in todays metagame just up and giving him something to kill puts you at a one member disadvantage.

Starmie can switch into something that doesn't threaten it, hit tyranitar ( and a myriad of other things ) for super effective damage and with a modest nature can even 2HKO Tyranitar ( assuming you hit it on the switch , as crunch and pursuit are OHKO's )

Fortress walls to death the physical set and lets you set up tons of entry hazards, gyro ball is also a 3HKO or 2HKO depending on how he's EV'd too.