RMT: MonoNormal OU Platinum

[FerrishTheFish]

I'm trying to make a monotype Normal team to compete in a casual monotype tourney. I know of at least one mono Bug team for certain (some of which are also Steel-type) and I strongly suspect at least one mono Fighting (which is obviously problematic).

I'm mainly picking Normal for its surprise value, and because Normal-types only have one weakness but can learn many different types of moves. My problem pokemon is Magnezone, but I am willing to switch strategies/pokemon with my Magnezone, Porygon-Z, and Skarmory if need be. Not sure if these are official rules, but we are required to have four pokemon with the same type and are playing with the option to switch out if you KO something and it says, "[Trainer] is about to send out [Pokemon]. Do you want to switch?"

I've never played pokemon competitively before. Not that I won't have fun, but I got roped into this entire deal because my brother was in the tourney already and they needed an eighth player -.-' So, this is my absolute, first attempt at team-building, and any advice from anybody would be great!

Smeargle @ Focus Sash

Nature: Jolly

Ability: Own Tempo

EVs: 0 HP / 252 Spd

Role: Lv. 1 (Suicide) Lead

-Spore

-Endeavor

-Trick Room

-Dragon Rage

Well, what else was I gonna have him do? Smeargle is out here as a suicide lead. He should at least be able to take out or severely weaken the opposing lead, which should hopefully discourage entry hazards or weather conditions, since Normal-types are damaged by all of them (three of my pokemon are holding Leftovers just in case, though).

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Snorlax @ Leftovers

Nature: Careful

Ability: Thick Fat

EVs: 188 HP / 104 Def / 216 SpDef

Role: Curse/Wall

-Curse

-Body Slam

-Fire Punch

-Rest

Snorlax is here as both a wall and, to some extent, a wall-breaker. Curse is used here in case my Smeargle gets off a Trick Room and I have an extra turn to set up. Fire Punch + Max Atk IVs should hopefully handle any unwary Bug/Steel-types.

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Porygon-Z @ Choice Specs

Nature: Timid

Ability: Adaptability

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd

Role: Main Special Sweeper

-Tri Attack

-Hidden Power Fighting (69 base)

-Dark Pulse

-Trick

My team is basically built around this guy. He also has some surprise value because he is not listed on the Smogon OU Tier. Hidden Power Fighting is super-effective on Rock- and Steel-types that resist Normal and double super-effective on Tyranitar (of which I know for a fact there is at least one). Trick is for a sacrifice play if, for example, a Steel-type shows up that Porygon-Z can't take out but Magnezone can.

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Togekiss @ Leftovers

Nature: Timid

Ability: Serene Grace

EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 236 Spd

Role: Support

-Encore

-Wish

-Air Slash

-Thunder Wave

By the time I get Togekiss out, odds are the other guy will have figured out that my team is mono Normal and will be expecting a Support/Wall/Stall Blissey instead. Togekiss is not as good as Blissey in many ways, but won't be taken down so easily by Fighting-types because of its typing and its super-effective, flinchy Air Slash. I'm considering nicknaming her, "BLISSEY."

------------------------------

Skarmory @ Leftovers

Nature: Impish

Ability: Keen Eye

EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spd

Role: Taunt Lead/Wall

-Taunt

-Spikes

-Whirlwind

-Roost

Skarmory and Togekiss are my answer to Fighting-types with this team. Skarmory should be able to fend off strong physical attackers with Spikes, Whirlwind, and Roost. Taunt is there to prevent entry hazards--I don't have a Rapid Spinner on my team, so the only way to avoid entry hazards is to prevent them.

------------------------------

Magnezone @ Salac Berry

Nature: Nature

Ability: Magnet Pull

EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpAtk / 228 Spd

Role: Secondary Special Sweeper

-Substitute

-Charge Beam

-Thunderbolt

-Hidden Power Ice (70 base)

Definitely my problem pokemon. Magnezone is my counter to Steel-types and a back-up sweeper in case Porygon-Z is taken out, but he doesn't have all that much else going for him. Getting rid of him, though, would also reduce the usefulness of my Porygon-Z.

I'm really having problems with Fighting-types. Machamp still basically destroys my Smeargle, and even though I have my Skarmory (my best bet) with Spikes and Whirlwind, I still have nothing resistant to Fighting.

I'll be honest here: What I really wanted was a team that could beat my brother's mono Bug team. I know he has a Scizor, a Heracross, and a Forretress, and possibly a Heatran as well. So, I wanted

A) A team built around Porygon-Z, whom I believe is underrated,

B) A team that can beat my brother's team in round 2,

C) A team with enough coverage to survive round 1, and

D) A team without Blissey, because I just don't like her for some reason.

However, I'm perfectly willing to swallow my pride and switch out my Porygon-Z for a Blissey if the people here think that is really my best option (although if my team desperately needs a Blissey, I would really prefer to switch out my gimmicky Smeargle for one). Either way, I'll probably end up with a Blissey like:

Blissey @ Leftovers

Nature: Bold

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd

Role: Support

-Wish

-Protect

-Seismic Toss

-Toxic

This would effectively replace my current Togekiss's role, so if replacing Porygon-Z, I would need to make Togekiss a sweeper, maybe something like:

Togekiss @ Life Orb

Nature: Timid

Ability: Serene Grace

EVs: 192 HP / 80 SpAtk / 236 Spd

Role: Special Sweeper

-Nasty Plot

-Air Slash

-Fire Blast

-Aura Sphere

This sweeper has similar coverage as the Porygon-Z it is replacing, and is significantly bulkier to boot.

If switching out my Smeargle, I wouldn't necessarily need a Togekiss Sweeper, so I'd go with:

Togekiss @ Leftovers

Nature: Bold

Ability: Serene Grace

EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpDef

Role: Paralyzer and Flincher

-Air Slash

-Thunder Wave

-Aura Sphere

-Roost

A Togekiss whose main purpose is to stall while making it easier for my Porgon-Z to sweep by slowing down or even taking out the competition (i.e. Fighting-types or Bug-types weak to Air Slash).

I'd then probably need like an Azelf Lead more than a Skarmory:

Azelf @ Colbur Berry

Nature: Jolly

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 8 HP / 140 Atk / 144 SpDef / 216 Spd

Role: (Anti-Machamp) Lead

-Stealth Rock

-Taunt

-U-turn

-Explosion

A set that Smogon swears will beat out Machamp Leads, which makes it preferable over Smeargle vs. a mono Fighting team. It can also prevent entry hazards, which is again useful due to the lack of a Rapid Spinner on my team.

Edited July 18, 2011 by FerrishTheFish

[randomspot555]

"[Trainer] is about to send out [Pokemon]. Do you want to switch?"

This doesn't happen in Wi-Fi, Random Battles, or Union Room (aka local wireless) battles.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash

Nature: Jolly

Ability: Own Tempo

EVs: 0 HP / 252 Spd

Role: Lv. 1 (Suicide) Lead

-Spore

-Endeavor

-Trick Room

-Dragon Rage

First off, remember that auto-leveling is possible, depending on if you're doing Wi-fi or Local Wireless battling. So if they auto-level to 50 or 100, you won't have a level 1 Smeargle.

That being said, you're trying to pull off Sleep, Endeavor to 1 HP, and Trick Room. That's too much and is essentially wasint a move slot.

If you want to Endeavor your opponent down to 1 HP, you want to at least also have a priority move. Quick Attack, Bullet Punch or Aqua Jet all get the job done.

There's two move slots right there, Endeavor and whatever priority move you want.

What will likely happen is after you Endeavor your opponent down to 1 HP, your opponent will probably realize what you're trying to do and switch. You've got a couple options.

You can set up entry hazards such as Stealth Rock, Spikes, or Toxic Spikes. You can Taunt to stop your opponent from setting up entry hazards. You can boost stats and attempt to Baton Pass. And you can switch.

I think Smeargle's best bet is to set up Stealth Rock and, if it gets the chance, to use Taunt.

So Smeargle w/ Focus Sash

Jolly

Own Tempo

252 atk/252 speed/6 HP

-Endeavor

- Quick Attack

- Stealth Rock

- Taunt

Word of warning. This whole Endeavor/Quick Attack strategy is a fairly well known strategy. People WILL see this coming. But if you catch them off guard, it can pay off big.

-----------------------------

Snorlax @ Leftovers

Nature: Careful

Ability: Thick Fat

EVs: 188 HP / 104 Def / 216 SpDef

Role: Curse/Wall

-Curse

-Body Slam

-Fire Punch

-Rest

Rest is just letting your opponent switch out to get your stat boosted Snorlax to be Whirlwinded or Roared away, or knocked out with a Fighting move.

Body Slam/Fire Punch has a pretty bad coverage. I think Thunderpunch helps you take out Gyarados and Earthquake hels you take on Heatran. You're still kind of vulnerable to Dragons, but STAB Body Slam hurts quite a bit and has that handy paralysis.

------------------------------

Porygon-Z @ Choice Specs

Nature: Timid

Ability: Adaptability

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd

Role: Main Special Sweeper

-Tri Attack

-Hidden Power Fighting (69 base)

-Dark Pulse

-Trick

Okay, about Hidden Power.

Hidden Power is ONLY effective for those it hits for x4 super effective damage. A standard STAB BoltBeam type move is just about or even stronger when it hits for neutral damage than a Super Effective x2 HP does.

STAB Surf/Flamethrower/IceBeam/Thunderbolt for neutral damage: 142

Hidden Power Whatever for x2 damage at base 70 power: 140

Hidden Power Whatever for x4 damage at base 70 power: 280

So what is Porygon-Z hitting for x4 damage? Are these really that big of threats? The only thing it really hits is Tyranitar, and Tyranitar's Sp Def is ridiculous anyway. Might not be worth the moveslot.

Magnezone w/ Magnet Pull is possibly the best Scizor counter, but your current set kind of sucks.

Substitute or Toxic/Thunderbolt/HP Fire/Thunderwave is your new set. This easily takes down Forretress and Scizor (watch out for Superpower). Heracross will be a bad matchup for Skarmory (though Skarmory hates STAB Close Combat)....and, well , Heatran is a problem to your team, no doubt about that. Maybe fit Aura Sphere on Togekiss, maybe ditching Encore.

Mono tourneys are more for fun than straight up competition anyway since you'll always have a weak spot or two.

Best of luck.

[FerrishTheFish]

Thank you very much! Your help is very much appreciated.

First off, remember that auto-leveling is possible, depending on if you're doing Wi-fi or Local Wireless battling. So if they auto-level to 50 or 100, you won't have a level 1 Smeargle.

Wow, good point. I knew that but somehow I didn't put 2 and 2 together on that one ...

If you want to Endeavor your opponent down to 1 HP, you want to at least also have a priority move. Quick Attack, Bullet Punch or Aqua Jet all get the job done.

Yeah, I was hoping I could fool people into thinking I was going for the 1 HP Endeavor/Quick Attack strategy while I would actually be going for Trick Room -> Spore -> 12 HP Endeavor -> Dragon Rage which always deals 40 damage for a gimp KO, but auto-level screws that strategy over ... So I think I will borrow your ideas, but switch out Smeargle for Blissey because of the auto-leveling thing I forgot about -.-' Hopefully, that doesn't open up any gaping holes in my lineup.

Changes are in blue. My new team looks like this:

Blissey @ Leftovers

Nature: Bold

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd

Role: Support

-Wish

-Protect

-Ice Beam

-Toxic

A classic Stall/Wall/Wish Blissey. Auto-Level is to 50, so Seismic Toss only deals 50 damage. Instead, Ice Beam is for coverage and anti-Taunt.

----------------------------------------

Snorlax @ Leftovers

Nature: Careful

Ability: Thick Fat

EVs: 188 HP / 104 Def / 216 SpDef

Role: Curse/Wall

-Curse

-Body Slam

-Fire Punch

-ThunderPunch

Snorlax is here as both a wall and, to some extent, a wall-breaker. Curse is a good set-up move for the Lax. Fire Punch and ThunderPunch for coverage. Body Slam for paralysis, as slowing down opponent's pokemon can only help Porygon-Z.

--------------------------------------------

Porygon-Z @ Choice Specs

Nature: Timid

Ability: Adaptability

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd

Role: Main Special Sweeper

-Tri Attack

-Ice Beam

-Dark Pulse

-Trick

My team is basically built around this guy. He also has some surprise value because he is not listed on the Smogon OU Tier. Ice Beam because my team is weak to Dragons, and I dearly hope there isn't a mono Dragon team ... Trick is for a sacrifice play if, for example, a Steel-type shows up that Porygon-Z can't take out but Magnezone can.

-------------------------------------------

Togekiss @ Leftovers

Nature: Bold

Ability: Serene Grace

EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpDef

Role: Paralyzer and Flincher

-Aura Sphere

-Roost

-Air Slash

-Thunder Wave

A Togekiss whose main purpose is to stall while making it easier for my Porgon-Z to sweep by slowing down or even taking out the competition (i.e. Fighting-types or Bug-types weak to Air Slash). Aura Sphere is a counter for a potential Heatran.

----------------------------------------------

Skarmory @ Leftovers

Nature: Impish

Ability: Keen Eye

EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spd

Role: Taunt Lead/Wall

-Taunt

-Spikes

-Whirlwind

-Roost

Skarmory and Togekiss are my answer to Fighting-types with this team. Skarmory should be able to fend off strong physical attackers with Spikes, Whirlwind, and Roost. Taunt is there to prevent entry hazards--I don't have a Rapid Spinner on my team, so the only way to avoid entry hazards is to prevent them. This is a Lead that I can hopefully switch in multiple times to maintain a few layers of Spikes and screw over a team by forcing switches. This Skarmory can switch in after my Togekiss/Snorlax paralyzes something that poses little to no threat to it, get off a Roost to heal any damage, and set up Taunt (on a wall) or Spikes/Whirlwind on predicted switch-ins. Also works well as Wish Receiver on a predicted Physical Attacker switch-in vs. Blissey.

---------------------------------------

Magnezone @ Salac Berry

Nature: Timid

Ability: Magnet Pull

EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpAtk / 228 Spd

Role: Secondary Special Sweeper

-Substitute

-Thunder Wave

-Thunderbolt

-Hidden Power Fire (70 base)

If Togekiss and Skarmory are my answers to Fighting-types, then Magnezone is my answer to Steel-types. Substitute should protect him from most attacks, while Thunder Wave and Hidden Power Fire are there to cripple and/or KO trapped Steel-types (like Scizor and Forretress). Salac Berry works well with Substitute to maybe pull a late-game sweep.

I put Skarmory in red because I'm still considering changing my Skarmory Lead to the Azelf Lead I mentioned in the first post: (guess I'll go green 8D)

Azelf @ Colbur Berry

Nature: Jolly

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 8 HP / 140 Atk / 144 SpDef / 216 Spd

Role: (Anti-Machamp) Lead

-Stealth Rock

-Taunt

-U-turn

-Explosion

A set that Smogon swears will beat out Machamp Leads, which makes it preferable over Smeargle vs. a mono Fighting team. It can also prevent entry hazards, which is again useful due to the lack of a Rapid Spinner on my team.

I'm leaning toward Skarmory on this one because although U-turn and resistance to/coverage over Fighting are quite nifty, this Azelf won't be winning any awards vs. the inevitable STAB Megahorn. Also, Spikes and Stealth Rock are equal vs. most of my brother's team, but Spikes are better vs. Fighting- and Steel-types, and U-turn is less useful because it's a monotype tourney where there is little need to scout. However, the fact that my main sweeper is so slow and and fragile makes it difficult to switch in except after one of my pokemon has been KO'd, and Azelf accomplishes that with Explosion. Do you have any opinion on Azelf vs. Skarmory?

Edited July 19, 2011 by FerrishTheFish

[wraith89]

Um... where in the world did you get your Wish Blissey? You do realise that it was a rare event Pokemon from NYPC right?

Legality issues aside, that Azelf may or may not defeat Machamp leads depending on what move the Machamp you are facing uses. Payback + Bullet Punch can still KO that one, I think, but I will have to do the calculations again to make sure.

My Machamp has 252 HP / 84 Attack / 172 SpDef with Careful Nature.

Payback against 8 HP Azelf: 88.7% - 104.4%

Bullet Punch against 8 HP Azelf: 17.7% - 21.2%

Now imagine the regular 240 HP/248 Attack versions with Adamant. You are lucky if the other Machamp did not inherit Bullet Punch. I wouldn't count on it unless you explode RIGHT there in the beginning (152.3% - 179.4%), but you really do want those rocks set up. As for defeating Machamp, you just need something that can OHKO it right off the bat without overspecialising your lead for the sake of defeating one Pokemon... or find a workaround since OHKOing Machamp is hard. Or maybe puncturing a hole in it or something. Spiritomb can do that job very well just by switching in and burning it, for example.

[FerrishTheFish]

Um... where in the world did you get your Wish Blissey? You do realise that it was a rare event Pokemon from NYPC right?

Yeah, well casual tourney + late notice (everyone else had their teams when they asked me to join) = they said I could hack 8P Most of the other guys have hacked as well, but some haven't, so I'm not hacking for Max IVs in more than two stats (which is the most I've legitimately bred for) and I'm randomizing the rest.

Like randomspot says, since it's a monotype tourney, I'll just have to live with a few weaknesses. I like Skarmory too darn much to switch it out for a Spiritomb, and if my choice is between minimal Fighting-type immunity/coverage in Spiritomb and increased Bug/Steel-type resistance/coverage in Magnezone, I'll take Steel-type because my brother is the best player there and beating him is more important to me There'll probably be only one mono Fighting team out of the other 7 teams, and I doubt my current line-up and type would be able to prevail over a mono Fighting team even with Spiritomb, so I might as well increase my chances in other areas, ya know?

BTW if anyone is willing to take the (somewhat unreasonable, I admit) time, pains, and labor to set up a Shoddy Battle mono Bug team with Scizor, Forretress, Heracross, Heatran, and Shuckle (which I think is my brother's fourth Bug-type) to help teach me how to play competitively, that would be awesome!

[randomspot555]

Well Skarmory, while a physical wall, isn't as amazing as he's often talked about.

He absolutely is destroyed by any type of Special Attack that hits for neutral damage. And even the stuff that he resists can hurt a ton if it's backed up by STAB. In many cases, he can be 2HKOed by a STAB Focus Punch/Close Combat.

I don't really do battle simulators anymore,but I'll dig out my old Wi-Fi team and do a Wi-Fi battle with you if you can wait for the weekend. It won't be mono bug, but it'll still be a good test.

[wraith89]

Actually I've seen Skarms live Surfs from bulky waters fairly well... as long as it isn't something like Vaporeon. It's Choice Banded Close Combat that murders Skarmory (2HKOs), but non boosted ones, even if STABd, still do around the ~40ish% at best. Skarm still forces out Heracross anyways in fear of Brave Bird. If you play it right it is a nuisance, but that's IF you play it right. Recklessly depending on it to wall everything gets you nowhere and you will find it worn out quite fast.

And maybe I can make a mono bug and try it out, though we use a simulator called Pokemon Online these days, so I haven't used Shoddy in a long while. You listed 5 Pokemon for the bug team, where is the 6th?

A few weaknesses is a terror if you get 6-0'd by Machamp. You need "something" to deal with a "few weaknesses" is all I'm saying, even though covering all of them is quite improbable. Skarmory is "okay", but it still hates that confusion Dynamicpunch has to offer. But like I said, having one Pokemon to have a very specific role will endanger your team so it needs some sort of a balance.

[randomspot555]

Wide Lens Gengar can be pretty evil to Machamp. Come in on Dynamic Punch or Earthquake, sleep or put up a Substitute and fire off Hypnosis and Shadow Balls.

Gengar isn't a very defensive Pokemon, but it has 3 immunities, resists Poison and is immune to Toxic. It's pretty nifty if you can come in on the right moves.

[wraith89]

No Guard does not necessitate Wide Lens; Gengar's Hypnosis will always hit Machamp.

But beware of predicted Paybacks... and most lead Machamps carry the dreaded Lum Berry, but come into the right move and you're golden.

[FerrishTheFish]

@randomspot555 I don't have access to Wi-Fi, unfortunately ... Thanks for the offer, though!

@wraith89 I just asked my brother, and he says he has Heracross, Tyranitar, Shuckle, Heatran, Scizor, and Forretress. So, basically a Sandstorm team. I've never heard of Pokemon Online, but I'll look it up when I get a chance.

You guys have been making a lot of good points that have really got me thinking ... Four Normal-types with their wide movepools are are fine and dandy, but my "real" coverage comes from those other two pokemon and their potential STAB and resistances. That being said, wasting one of my coverage pokemon on a Lead slot when I have a perfectly viable Normal Lead (Smeargle) is kind of a waste. I can't win against a full team with two pokemon. Why force my coverage pokemon to do all the work? For the same reason, I'm still going to stick with a Normal Sweeper (Porygon-Z).

I think I'm going to scrap both Magnezone and Skarmory until I come up with sets for Togekiss and Snorlax that better support Porygon-Z. Then I will have an easier time picking two pokemon to work off of these four to counter the Fighting-types they are weak to and Steel-types who resist them. I'll edit this post when I come up with something.

EDIT: As of this moment, I have Porygon-Z, Smeargle, Swampert, Togekiss, Blissey, and Zapdos, but I won't bother posting the details right now since they will almost certainly change ...

EDIT 2: Ok, fine, here it is.

Porygon-Z @ Choice Specs

Nature: Timid

Ability: Adaptability

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd

Role: Main Special Sweeper

-Tri Attack

-Ice Beam

-Dark Pulse

-Hidden Power Fighting

Coverage, coverage, coverage. My goal here is to create a team that can phaze through my opponent's team to scout it out, aggressively removing what threats I can and Walling/Paralyzing/damaging/somehow crippling any others that could give Porygon-Z trouble (i.e. Togekiss taking out Fighting-types, Blissey Walling and paralyzing faster or more powerful Sweepers, Swampert and Smeargle weakening Special Walls and Steel-/other resistant-types with entry hazard damage, etc.), then at the last hour, put in Zapdos, Baton Pass Porygon-Z a Sub and an Agility, then proceed with a late-game sweep. Please note that I only expect this strategy to work because this is a monotype tourney, so I will likely only have to deal with 2~3 pokemon to pull off a sweep. My brother's team will be the hardest to deal with because Porygon-Z doesn't have super-effective on Bug/Steel-types.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash

Nature: Jolly

Ability: Own Tempo

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spd

Role: Lead

-Spore

-Spikes

-U-turn

-Counter

The thing about Choice Specs Porygon-Z is that he's fragile and not super-effective against the whole world. This Smeargle provides entry hazards with Spikes that complement Swampert's Stealth Rock, team scouting with U-turn, and the combination of Own Tempo, Focus Sash, and Counter should let it drastically weaken Machamp Leads.

Swampert @ Leftovers

Nature: Relaxed

Ability: Torrent

EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpDef

Role: Stealth Rock Phazer

-Stealth Rock

-Earthquake

-Ice Beam

-Roar

Swampert can handle most of Porygon-Z's counters, ensure Stealth Rocks are kept up to aid his not-always-super-effective friend's sweeps, and finally phaze through the enemy lineup with Roar, racking up entry hazard damage as he goes. STAB Earthquake is super-effective on Steel- and Electric-types.

Togekiss @ Choice Scarf

Nature: Timid

Ability: Serene Grace

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd

Role: Flinchy Trickster

-Air Slash

-Aura Sphere

-Fire Blast

-Trick

Team scouting is going to be very, very valuable to Porygon-Z because he needs to know in advance what move to commit to, whom he needs to switch out on, and in rare (read: miraculous) cases whom he can even switch IN on. While Togekiss doesn't directly phaze, she can take out several of the pokemon that give Porygon-Z trouble and possibly force switches with Trick, which can cripple Blissey (a Porygon-Z counter), and maximized speed + Air Slash + Serene Grace, which can flinch to death or at least severely damage Fighting- or Bug-types, especially with Paralysis going around.

Blissey @ Leftovers

Nature: Bold

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd

Role: Wishing Wall

-Wish

-Protect

-Flamethrower

-Thunder Wave

Everybody knows Blissey is the best Special Wall. On this team, due to the likelihood of weather conditions and the lack of Rapid Spinner, healing is going to be important and paralysis even more so. Paralysis is essential to Togekiss being able to do her job, as well as in aiding any early sweep attempt.

Zapdos @ Leftovers

Nature: Timid

Ability: Pressure

EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 88 SpAtk / 32 Spd

Role: Baton Passer

-Baton Pass

-Agility

-Substitute

-Thunderbolt

Zapdos is a massive help to Porygon-Z because it can Baton Pass Substitute and Agility, giving Porygon-Z survivability and speed at once. Thunderbolt adds coverage over Water-types, although this Zapdos doesn't have a whole lot to offer offensively to begin with.

Edited July 20, 2011 by FerrishTheFish

[wraith89]

Oh. This tourney is for simulators? Then that changes everything.

If you are going to do challenges and all, don't post here. Write something in my Visitor's Message or Private Message me. Seeing as I use nearly every Pokemon mentioned, I can easily create the aforementioned team in a second.

http://pokemon-online.eu/

And er... I suppose the server we battle on is this one called Quantum. I cannot find Project Pokemon's server anywhere.

[FerrishTheFish]

No, this tourney is not for simulators. We're doing local wireless battles. It's just that, if I have a team, I can transfer it to a sim to test out very easily (again, I don't have access to Wi-Fi T.T). I assume basic battling strategy is not greatly different in simulators?

I wasn't trying to issue a challenge, I think I just misunderstood your earlier post:

And maybe I can make a mono bug and try it out, though we use a simulator called Pokemon Online these days, so I haven't used Shoddy in a long while. You listed 5 Pokemon for the bug team, where is the 6th?

In the context it was in, I thought that "it" was referring to my Skarmory, and so I thought you meant you would try to replicate my brother's mono Bug team and see how well my Skarmory stood up to it ... Sorry for any confusion. I will make my team and PM you a monotype challenge afterward, then.

EDIT: I edited out the offending lines in my previous post. Sorry about that!

[wraith89]

So confused here... anyways it's your team vs a replicated mono bug of your brother's. Just finished making one, so do what you like.

[FerrishTheFish]

So I actually played a couple games with the bro himself. I lost the first game, but won the second, and in doing so realized that actually, I find it more fun to set up entry hazards and phaze than to set up for a sweep. I lost the first game because I inexpertly tried to sweep, and I won the second because I managed to get three layers of spikes down, phaze out his Forretress so it had to switch in twice and lose 50%, then managed to KO it with Blissey's Flamethrower before it could Rapid Spin. I didn't even use my Porygon-Z at all. It came down to his Shuckle and his 50% Heatran vs. my Zapdos, Togekiss, and Porygon-Z: I Tricked my Choice Scarf onto his Shuckle, locking it into Rest, then brought my Zapdos in to Pressure its Rest away, and he ran.

I think in general that Normal-Types are better at stalling than sweeping anyways. I set up a new team based on that. Please tell me what you guys think:

Smeargle @ Choice Scarf

Nature: Jolly

Ability: Own Tempo

EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spd

Role: Scarfed Lead

-Spore

-Trick

-Spikes / Stealth Rock

-Encore

Scarfed Jolly Smeargle hits 396 Speed. For perspective, non-Scarfed Jolly Aerodactyl only hits 394. Sporing a non-Scarfed lead is practically guaranteed, and the extra bulk makes this Smeargle more likely to survive a hit if he is switched in later for Spikes, Trick, or Encore.

-------------------------

Snorlax @ Leftovers

Nature: Impish

Ability: Thick Fat

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef

Role: RestTalk ParaPhazer

-Rest

-Sleep Talk

-Body Slam

-Whirlwind

Snorlax performs his task admirably. Get in, do some damage, maybe spread some status, force switches, then Rest and Sleep Talk to do it all over again.

--------------------------

Togekiss @ Choice Scarf

Nature: Timid

Ability: Serene Grace

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd

Role: Flinchy Trickster

-Air Slash

-Aura Sphere

-Thunder Wave

-Trick

Togekiss is the closest I come to a sweeper on this team. She has powerful moves against pokemon that give my team trouble, but her real purpose is to annoy with Trick, paralysis, and flinchiness, the latter of which add up to a 70% chance that the other pokemon will just lose a turn.

--------------------------

Blissey @ Leftovers

Nature: Bold

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd

Role: Aromatherapist

-Aromatherapy

-Softboiled

-Flamethrower

-Toxic / Thunder Wave

Now that I have a Rapid Spinner on my team (Donphan), I can focus more on Walling. Status-healing with Aromatherapy is a big help to sleeping Snorlaxes and poisoned Donphans, but I'll probably test out the effectiveness of Wish and Protect on this team, too. Toxic and Thunder Wave both have their pros and cons: poison + entry hazards can stop someone setting up on Blissey, but poison also overrides paralysis, which is more useful to the team overall.

--------------------------

Froslass @ Choice Scarf

Nature: Modest

Ability: Snow Cloak

EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpAtk / 128 SpDef

Role: Spin Blocker

-Spikes

-Thunder Wave

-Hidden Power Fire / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball

-Trick

My own custom set (for once). This Froslass OHKOs with Hidden Power Fire 252 HP / 252 SpDef Careful Forretress after 25% Spikes damage as well as 252 HP / 0 SpDef Scizor with neutral nature and no entry damage. Thunderbolt 2HKOs 252 HP / 136 SpDef Calm Tentacruel (after 25% Spikes damage) and 2HKOs any Starmie that isn't 252 HP / 252 SpDef with boosting nature without entry damage and any Starmie period with entry damage. Froslass also outspeeds all of these unless they are scarfed, which is uncommon except on Starmie. Froslass is designed to come in on predicted Rapid Spins, prevent Rapid Spin with Ghostly ease, then either cripple the Spinner with Trick, lay down more Spikes, spread status, or go for the KO. I chose the EV spread for survivability against the less-predictable Starmie and Tentacruel, because no amount of HP and Def is going to protect against something like min Spd Forretress Gyro Ball or Choice Band Scizor Pursuit, and these two pokemon can be dealt with in other ways anyways.

---------------------------

Donphan @ Leftovers

Nature: Adamant

Ability: Sturdy

EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 Def

Role: Rapid Spinner

-Rapid Spin

-Earthquake

-Assurance / Stealth Rock

-Roar

Donphan gets the honor of replacing Swampert on my team: He's more powerful and not too much slower, has access to STAB Earthquake and Roar, but can use Rapid Spin. Assurance is for dealing with Spin Blockers, though if the player is confident enough in Roar, Stealth Rock can be used instead.

I put Froslass in red because her frailty means I need a ton of prediction to use her properly. Rotom-H is better in almost every way, with powerful STAB/super-effective moves vs. Forretress, Tentacruel, and Starmie, but Froslass can lay down Spikes and I'd rather not place the sole burden of that task on Smeargle. To be honest, I'm not completely satisfied with Donphan either, but despite his issues I think he is the best Rapid Spinner for this team, especially due to his resilience vs. Rotom-H. In any case, this team still needs some testing before it can be finalized.

EDIT: I just played a bunch of matches with this team on Pokemon Online against regular 4th Gen OU teams on the Beta server. Only ONE guy managed to beat me on his first try; everyone else needed two tries but eventually got the job done ' So far, my best pokemon are (not surprisingly) Blissey and Snorlax. On first impression Froslass was actually a stronger addition than Donphan on account of him being too darn slow to do anything without taking serious damage. I used his Stealth Rock set--I'll have to try again with Assurance instead, and if that doesn't work, think about a Tentacruel Rapid Spinner. I'll probably fix up my Froslass's set to give her some more speed, so she can outspeed more than just Rapid Spinners and maybe have a chance at keeping up after Tricking away her Choice Scarf (maybe a Timid nature?). Oh, and randomspot? You were right about Hidden Power being useless 90% of the time: In general, STAB Shadow Ball or something is more useful, and I am definitely making that change before going back into the field.

Edited July 22, 2011 by FerrishTheFish

[Tbird]

Tentacruel would seem to be better than froslass + donphan and would free up a slot on your team.

With the Stally feel to the team tentacruel provides almost crucial toxic spikes support. Backing him up with a spin blocker is a good idea. As it's 4th Gen Rotom would go nicely; Rotom-H specifically. It can take both electric and ground types for Tentacruel and deal heavy damage with Overheat. The choice specs variant wouldn't be a bad idea as it gives you a nice power house to the team. After you've bitch slapped a couple pokes with Overheat, Blissey switch ins will be easy as hell to predict so you can cripple them with a trick. Choice spex is further boosted by the fact that you have paralysis support running through the team.

Now for some problem pokes;

Gyarados: After you've spored someone with Scarf Smeargle he's forced out, he's also forced out if gyara switches in on spikes, he can then set up a DD, Taunt Blissey, and Togekiss, rendering them useless, giving Gyara another DD after which it's sweep city. Rotom-H fixes this.

Infernape: Whilst you have a lot of paralysis support that can cripple him, if he switches in you have nothing that you can soundly switch into him. Tentacruel is Infernape's worst enemy.

Opposing Blissey: The thing with your team is it lacks that win factor. It can quite easily grind out a couple of wins, but it doesn't particularly set up to anything; thus you are walled by stall that is stronger than your own. Something cool that you could try out would be switching Snorlax for CroMiltank. Rest/Sleep Talk/Curse/Return(/Bodyslam) Whilst not being quite as tankish as snorlax it can run mono more easily due to scrappy allowing it to hit Ghost types. You could then use Blissey as set up bait, which is always neat. He too would be weak to infernape; but if you put tentacruel on team you're on to a winner. Skarmory would wall it to high hell, too, but that's why I suggest Rotom-H.

I dislike the smeargle lead in all honesty. It seems to allow too many things to switch in and set up on it. If I think of anything/set that'd work better I'll come back.

[FerrishTheFish]

Thanks for the info on the pokes! Actually, I have been experimenting on PO, and have already put a Tentacruel on my team ' I was considering both Miltank and Porygon2 as candidates for Normal-types, and I was desperately trying to figure out how to turn my Rotom into Rotom-H, but my final lineup was: Smeargle, Snorlax, Togekiss, Blissey, Swampert, and Tentacruel.

As you might have guessed from all the past tense, the tournament happened today (well, yesterday). I couldn't stay through all of it, but I won round 1 and my unfinished round 2 game was ruled in my favor (my 5 full-HP pokemon vs. his 1 paralyzed + low-HP, 1 low-HP, and 1 full-HP pokemon). I have actually become somewhat addicted to Pokemon Online, and will probably continue to experiment with my favorite type online. My current team has so far won more online games vs. regular OU teams than it has lost.

I disagree with your opinion on Smeargle leads, but you're probably more knowledgeable about these matters than I -.- He has his downsides, but after the initial Spore -> switch, I make sure not to switch him back in until I know exactly what I'm up against: I only switched him back in once out of both my tournament matches (and they were loooooooong matches, phazing vs. Toxic stall in round 1, phazing vs. Wish support in round 2). I had Stealth Rocks on my Swampert, so phazing was still working even without Spikes. I agree 100% with your Tentacruel ruling, and seriously, NOTHING beats setting up Rocks, phazing while the other guy scrambles to set up three layers of Toxic Spikes, and then finally switching in Tentacruel to om nom nom all that hard work up without even spending a turn 8D

EDIT: Dang, first impressions of that Miltank are impressive. Had a guy forfeit to me after 3 layers of Spikes and 3 Curses even though he had 4 pokemon left. Mental images of bovines Body Slamming the guy from Sixth Sense 8D MOOOOOO!!!

Edited August 1, 2011 by FerrishTheFish

[wraith89]

Smeargle works if you play him right, but most of the time everything is faster, the lead carries Lum Berry, or just has something to completely destroy Smeargle. It seems to be gimmick at best and a joke at worst for the most part, but there have been times Smeargle did well, but only because he caught his opponent unawares...

You couldn't finish why? Did you have to leave or something?

[FerrishTheFish]

Yeah, I had to leave before the tournament was over. Unexpected turn of events and whatnot.

I dunno about Smeargle being slow, because with the EV spread and Scarf he has 396 Spd, whereas non-Scarfed Aerodactyl reaches 394 at most (with boosting nature, 252 Spd EVs). I've never run into anything that outsped my Smeargle (including other Smeargle leads), and if whatever they have will destroy him, I use U-turn. I do admit that playing with Smeargle is like playing with 5 pokemon, but when I spend like 20 turns alternately phazing with RestTalk Snorlax, flinching with Serene Grace Togekiss, Status-healing with Aromatherapy Blissey, etc., people tend to forget to prepare against a Smeargle switch-in 8D In my opinion, catching your opponent off-guard is just as much skill as prediction so as to not be caught off-guard yourself.

[wraith89]

If you scarf the Smeargle, then it just gets KOd from nearly anything, despite speed. Well, just beware of Lum Berry leads in general, as they are common, and despite U-turn, what can safely switch into say... Dynamicpunch from Machamp? Without Scarf, then it is "slow". I just don't like the thing really... nothing personal, but like you said, it feels like playing with 5 Pokemon. But if you like it, then you like it. I suppose in a mono team run, there's not really much choice.