Debate: Physician Assisted Suicide

[kuoleva]

Alright. Well, I have a friend who's working on an essay about assisted suicide. It's a debate project, where he has to write a persuasive essay on physician assisted suicide, and then debate about it with another one of my friends. He's doing the side against it, and asked me to help. Since I'm mostly for it, and so are most books/websites, he's having a hard time finding much of anything against it, and is almost going for it as well.

I suggested he ask around, which he agreed to, but that isn't going very well. He can't ask people at his church, since they're apparently really busy on Sundays, and the project is due on Tuesday, the day before one of their "off-days". All of my other friends are for it, none of my family has an opinion, and I'm not allowed in my grandmother's church again. .-. I'll feel guilty if I don't give him something to use, so I shall turn to the internet! (It's tubes!)

Here are some questions I'd like answers and opinions on:

1) Are you for or against physician assisted suicide? (I'll be calling it PAS now, for less typing.) What are your reasons?

2) Basing this off of your answer above, are their any situations where you would feel the opposite way? (IE, if you said you are for PAS, are there any situations where you would be against it?)

3) Here's a hypothetical situation.

You've just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Your oncologist tells you that you have only several months to live. You are mentally stable, or at least as stable as one could be after being told they are dying, and are capable of making reasonable decisions. PAS is legal in your state. What would you do?

4) Let's change that a bit.

Your son/daughter has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Your oncologist tells you they only have several months to live. Your child is underage, and thus you (and possibly your partner) are given the choice of what to do next. You are mentally stable, or at least as stable as one could be after being told that their child is dying, and are capable of making reasonable decisions. PAS is legal in your state. What would you do?

Anything else you can add would be great. Keep in mind, though, my friend and I are only High School freshmen, but apparently the English course we're in is a college level.

Thanks again, and if no one here is against it, I guess I can give the info to my other friend.

[Zafur]

In those situations, I don't see a reason to kill them early... I only see euthanasia as an option when the person is in extreme pain, and pretty much needs to be doped up most of the time for the rest of their life. They also need to be willing themselves. It's more of an issue when they're in a coma and you have to decide if you should "pull the plug", or if you would want someone to pull yours if you were in that situation.

In the Bible, it says suicide will bring you straight to Hell, even if that was the only sin you committed, if you want a reason with Religion in it.

[Enkidu]

This is more of a choice issue, Should we be allowed to have the choice to do X and has stirred a lot of controversy . Anyway Speaking specifically with Euthanasia, I find that each case is different, should you be allowed to kill yourself because of "too much stress"? No, obviously not. But someone who only has a few weeks left to live and is going along, a shell of their former self in Excruciating pain should be allowed to.

Why? Because they A: have a valid reason. And B: It's their choice.

Stable mental consciousness plays a big factor in this I believe.

More specifically an Issue I see with this, is defining when and why you should be able to kill yourself. Death is not something you can take back, but when someone is in as much pain as a dying colon cancer patient for instance people will WANT to die early if they know it's coming. It's really up to the person though, as it's their life and they should be allowed to do with it what they will.

Sorry for being general and not being very informative. D:

[pokemonfan]

I'd say suicide is wrong but I guess it is someone's choice. I feel sorry for anyone being diagnosed with such a horrid fate but really I dont think someone should consider that an option even in the farthest regions of possibilities. Why not live the rest of your life all though the time is few. I guess it is there choice....I'm against it.

[randomspot555]

Your hypothetical are basically the text-book definition of not being mentally stable. You/your loved one were JUST TOLD by an MD of a disease that'll take you/your loved one's life. No MD worth their salt would see the patient or their medical proxy in a stable enough state in that time.

Your cousins/sister/whatever should have done what the topic says: talk to a physician. Probably someone from psych. Random idiot's from forums/street corners/churches and their opinion's are a dime a dozen.

[pokemonfan]

right, I think randomespot555 has a point. You could go door to door asking this stuff but whether or not you get something that is worth recognition in a school assignment is just unlikely.

[Okami]

In the Bible, it says suicide will bring you straight to Hell, even if that was the only sin you committed, if you want a reason with Religion in it.

No where in the Bible is suicide mentioned. It's an issue of grey matter, and I choose not to discuss my personal views of such.

However, PAS is a tricky subject...if a patient truly wants to die, is that death fallen on the patient or the physician? I've researched the topic, and I really don't have an answer for or against it. Whose life is an individual's life, anyways?

[wraith89]

Suicide means you let go of God's control over you... and YOU told yourself that YOU will give up on God. When God is using you... let Him use you until your job is done. How did Saul end up? Not exactly on a good note... there is a reason why he is recorded to have committed suicide.

[Zafur]

No where in the Bible is suicide mentioned. It's an issue of grey matter, and I choose not to discuss my personal views of such.

However, PAS is a tricky subject...if a patient truly wants to die, is that death fallen on the patient or the physician? I've researched the topic, and I really don't have an answer for or against it. Whose life is an individual's life, anyways?

No? I specifically read suicide being mentioned while leafing through a Bible one day. Perhaps in Leviticus? Not sure... I'll check.

[Okami]

The word suicide is not specifically mentioned, no. :] Believe me, I've done my research.

Oh, but there is more than Saul's suicide in the Bible. Samson. He asked God to give him his power back for one last time....and it was granted, and Samson crushed the building and brought it down upon himself and everyone with him. Story shortened a lot, obviously. It's in Judges, though. I'm too lazy to go find specifics...LOL

[wraith89]

No? I specifically read suicide being mentioned while leafing through a Bible one day. Perhaps in Leviticus? Not sure... I'll check.

Everything is mentioned in the Bible. My friend told me this today too. I'm going to do my research on this. Okami, you may have read the Bible once or twice, but you find new things from it everytime you read it again. I'm going to give it another go and look through the Mosaic laws to see if this specific issue is addressed or not.

Samson's death wasn't exactly suicide, it was more like sacrifice... he didn't kill himself... but he did so to take the lives of the Philistines.

[Okami]

Okay, not mentioned by name. There are other things that are in grey matter too.... Like, we all know murder is wrong. That's in black and white. Suicide, however, is not.

Samson's death wasn't exactly suicide, it was more like sacrifice... he didn't kill himself... but he did so to take the lives of the Philistines.

Yes, it was complete sacrifice to God, but it was also still suicide. He literally gave up his life for his cause! But the truth was, in taking his own life to defeat the Philistines in the process, Samson was doing God's will. God uses the works of men to show His power through them, and this moment shines that. Samson's death ultimately glorifies Him! :]

This is such a tricky topic, and an issue that's close to my heart. That's why this is hard for me to debate, my feelings get too much in the way.

I may have to excuse myself from this thread if it goes too far for me personally. I hope my information has been sufficient. All I know is that the Bible does not speak on the issue of suicide. There are places where it is silent, and this is one of them. It sort of leaves the issue at hand to its readers to be decided for whether it is right or wrong. Like I said before, I'm not about to bring my personal views of suicide into this thread.

I'm not saying that God just leaves it out entirely. It's up to an individual to make the decision with the help of God. It's through dedicated time in prayer and study that you get an idea of whether said issue is right or wrong. It's one of those things of free will coming through. He allows us to decide for ourselves.

In the end, we've still got to trust and obey Him and his commands. He says not to murder, does that also apply to murder of oneself? (Can suicide be considered as murder?) Why does one kill themself? There's question after question that comes to mind when researching this in a spiritual aspect. It's a matter of faith.

[wraith89]

Yes, suicide is murder... murder itself encompasses taking the lives of ANY human beings, and that includes yourself. Beware of trying to adjust an issue just to fit your OWN views, people do that a lot. I'll search for the truth... I will have to study this topic more... and I'm sorry if something personal happened. And whether you see it like that or not, I don't believe sacrificing yourself is the same as suicide. But yes, I will look into this a little more and address this later. Right now... my last bio lab. Hurray @_@

[Okami]

Just rethorical questions, Wraith. I'm just saying that there really isn't a definate answer to this...and thus the debate could go on endlessly forever. They're things to consider while researching.

I too believe that suicide is ultimately murder. Therefore it is sin and the wages of sin is death...but we also know that our God is not merciless.

The fact is, we don't have to take our own lives, because He gives us the strength to overcome. We just have to look for the hope in those periods of darkness.

And I never said they were one and the same, but the fact is, he killed himself. Whether it was sacrifice or suicide or both, that still remains solid as stone: Samson killed himself. Again, it is for the reader to draw their own conclusion, is it not?

The thing is, sometimes God tells people different things that will eventually lead to the same answer, His. I've spent hours devoted to the subject, pouring into my Bible. I've pondering PAS for the past several months and still haven't reached a definate conclusion. This just isn't an issue where you can wake up and say "Oh, the answer is this."

Again, whose life does a life taken fall upon? Everyone has to face their Maker and confront their sins, in the end. So the appropriate answer would be to say that it falls upon both.

Back on topic:

For an argument against it, I would say to focus on the physician, how would they feel? Would they feel guilt? Shame? How would the family feel? Would they approve?

Try not to focus so much on the person that is taking their life, but more on the people around said person.

As my Journalism teacher taught us: use the questions Who, What, When Why, and How. Focus a paragraph to each of the points, along with an introduction and conclusion paragraph. Therefore, the end result of this paper would be at least seven paragraphs. This is the basics of what I learned as a HS Freshman. These things are key for any paper you write, no matter what class it may be for.

[Sammy1]

I think that becoming a physician is a really hard job. It is a great profession, the money is great. However, there is so much time and effort put into being a physician. I do not understand why a person would commit suicide in the first place especially when they have such good lives in front of them but, I guess maybe the person was depressed. Looks like even physician jobs make people do horrible things.

[YuzuruHitokiri]

I think that becoming a physician is a really hard job. It is a great profession, the money is great. However, there is so much time and effort put into being a physician. I do not understand why a person would commit suicide in the first place especially when they have such good lives in front of them but, I guess maybe the person was depressed. Looks like even physician jobs make people do horrible things.

Sammy, I think you misinterpreted the topic...

It's about a terminal patient having the option of having their physician assist them in ending their life...

The patient here only has months to live, and is possibly going to be in excruciating pain for those remaining months...

and the physician isn't just killing someone that they think has no chance, they are assisting them in suicide...

Now, to answer kuoleva's questions:

1) Are you for or against physician assisted suicide? (I'll be calling it PAS now, for less typing.) What are your reasons?

Am I both for and against PAS; as it is a gray area, it would depend on the situation...

If it was a patient who was experiencing pain on a level that is unbearable, it would be fine, especially if it is only going to get worse...

If it is someone who has a chance at life, and they are not in a state (such as the above-mentioned pain), I would be against it, as they have a chance...

If it has ANYTHING to do with someone wanting to collect on life insurance while the patient is alive, and they would have a say in the PAS, I'm even more against PAS in that case...

In short, if it is merciful and eases a terminal patient's suffering, then it should be allowed...

If it is for some malicious purpose, then it should not be...

2) Basing this off of your answer above, are their any situations where you would feel the opposite way? (IE, if you said you are for PAS, are there any situations where you would be against it?)

See Question 1...

3) Here's a hypothetical situation.

"You've just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Your oncologist tells you that you have only several months to live. You are mentally stable, or at least as stable as one could be after being told they are dying, and are capable of making reasonable decisions. PAS is legal in your state. What would you do?"

I would first try to beat the odds so that I can rule out a bad call on the medical staff's case, and if that does not work, only call for PAS when any pain or suffering becomes too much for me to handle, I go into a comatose state, or I lose enough higher brain function to not be my former self...

4) Let's change that a bit.

"Your son/daughter has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Your oncologist tells you they only have several months to live. Your child is underage, and thus you (and possibly your partner) are given the choice of what to do next. You are mentally stable, or at least as stable as one could be after being told that their child is dying, and are capable of making reasonable decisions. PAS is legal in your state. What would you do?"

Similar to my answer to #3, only different in that my partner would have say in the decision as well... We'd both have to agree for the same thing... If I were the only one to have to choose though, it would be the same as #3...

[Sabeta]

I'm just commenting on Wraith and Okami's discussion. This is for religious views only, and I am not engaging in this particular debate, but I wish to settle their little mini-debate.

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (A rulebook on christianity, more-or-less) Suicide is the ONLY unforgivable sin. At the very basis, it is Murder. Even if you are murdering yourself, it is still murder, which is a Cardinal Sin. While Murder in and of itself can be forgiven, Suicide cannot, as you can't repent if you are dead. Bear in mind though, that Martyrdom and Suicide are completely different. Martyrdom is A-OK according tot he Catechism.

That is all. (Weather you are Catholic or not is a different story, and these are not my personal views, as I'm an atheist, but I did grow up taking religious classes, so I think I know a thing or two)

[wraith89]

I'm just commenting on Wraith and Okami's discussion. This is for religious views only, and I am not engaging in this particular debate, but I wish to settle their little mini-debate.

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (A rulebook on christianity, more-or-less) Suicide is the ONLY unforgivable sin. At the very basis, it is Murder. Even if you are murdering yourself, it is still murder, which is a Cardinal Sin. While Murder in and of itself can be forgiven, Suicide cannot, as you can't repent if you are dead. Bear in mind though, that Martyrdom and Suicide are completely different. Martyrdom is A-OK according tot he Catechism.

That is all. (Weather you are Catholic or not is a different story, and these are not my personal views, as I'm an atheist, but I did grow up taking religious classes, so I think I know a thing or two)

Yeah I knew that, although I am not Catholic. But thanks for the information.