T7NTR

[Feralligates]

The power/accuracy debate isn't set in stone. I am one of the people who preffere to have as much accuracy as possible. Is there something wrong with that?

By "cold, hard facts" I wasn't referring to the "power/accuracy" debate. Certainly, I also think accuracy over power, but sometimes one must look beyond that.

And yes I did post it here for critique. But that doesn't mean I have to make every change that is suggested. I don't think that opting not to go with Fire Blast is a particularly stingy stance.

No one here is making you adopt every recommendation we've given--they're just that, suggestions; you take or leave. Like I said, we're being courteous enough giving critiques and trying to help you by giving pointers and info.

Anyways, I've critiqued enough, so I shall move along.

[EchoLandon]

God....why does everyone says mamoswine wont work!

My mamoswine works. I will try a few different things baced on what you said. But I wont completely change his role. He has never failed me so epicly that I need to change his basic strategy. You say that mamoswine wont live long after it comes out. But mine does.

[randomspot555]

God....why does everyone says mamoswine wont work!

My mamoswine works. I will try a few different things baced on what you said. But I wont completely change his role. He has never failed me so epicly that I need to change his basic strategy. You say that mamoswine wont live long after it comes out. But mine does.

That's fine and dandy. The only way to really tell is battling, and battling a lot. I'm usually hanging around PP Shoddy, as is Tbird.

[Tbird]

I don't wanna beat a dead horse with the Dnite thing, but, the fireblast OHKO will be very useful. You say that EQ is nasty right? Well why let someone else who is similarly frail take the EQ? (weakened mamo won't be able to ice shard as the EQ will probably kill it off after prior damage and rocks damage) Say Dnite comes in on the same turn you nasty plot and goes for EQ, you can fire blast it to oblivion, and then carry on sweeping. This way you don't have to switch out, like you've already said you hate doing .

And I don't know why but for some reason I am actually quite feeling the lum berry, it's a nice unexpected touch. A lot of people will switch in their status platforms, and you'll melt straight through them. However, to do any proper melting you will need the power.

And dude, I love mamoswine leads . In fact one on one yours would probably best mine, but the problem is it's not going to be doing anything if it can't outspeed metagross and heatran, They usually have shucca berries so by the time you've EQ'd once, they've KOed you where as it could be the other way around.

Anywhom that's about it ... for now, haha.

[EchoLandon]

I did a damage calculator and the fire blast didnt vome close to ohko and the flamethrower was not swell either. Why is that?

I gave dragonite minimum spdef, infernape 292 spatk with +2 modifier. Where did I go wrong?

[Tbird]

I did a damage calculator and the fire blast didnt vome close to ohko and the flamethrower was not swell either. Why is that?

I gave dragonite minimum spdef, infernape 292 spatk with +2 modifier. Where did I go wrong?

I have no idea...

[EchoLandon]

Alright. Here are the changes I made. Ill work with these and see how it goes. Oter changes will be made later if I see fit.

Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Snow Cloak

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Ice Shard

- Avalanche

- Earthquake

- Stealth Rock

Romana (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Water Absorb

EVs: 128 HP / 252 Def / 128 Spd

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Substitute

- Baton Pass

- Surf

- Heal Bell

Flamberge (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Technician

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Brick Break

- Swords Dance

- Bullet Punch

- Roost

Alexander (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Inner Focus

EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 12 Def / 184 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Dragon Claw

- Dragon Dance

- Roost

- Earthquake

Astra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Rapid Spin

- Ice Beam

- Thunderbolt

- Surf

Prometheus (Infernape) (M) @ Lum Berry

Trait: Blaze

EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spd / 192 SAtk

Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)

- Nasty Plot

- Flamethrower

- Close Combat

- Grass Knot

[Tbird]

Ok We'll do a quick little check list then

Alright. Here are the changes I made. Ill work with these and see how it goes. Oter changes will be made later if I see fit.

Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Snow Cloak

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Ice Shard

- Avalanche

- Earthquake

- Stealth Rock

I like it, as said avalanche could be replaced by something else, but it's got the speed now so, s'all good.

Romana (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Water Absorb

EVs: 128 HP / 252 Def / 128 Spd

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Substitute

- Baton Pass

- Surf

- Heal Bell

You'll probably come to find that a better set is available. Though, for passing subs, this should work. I do however feel that HP electric should go over heal bell as gyarados does pose a threat to this team and without this 'check' He can DDance in your face and at +2 KO your whole team

Flamberge (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Technician

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Brick Break

- Swords Dance

- Bullet Punch

- Roost

If you went for sub here instead of on vaporeon then it would free up space for Vappy to run wish/Protect/HP electric/Surf, which is IMO better. However, with the vappy set thus far It looks good to me.

Alexander (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Inner Focus

EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 12 Def / 184 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Dragon Claw

- Dragon Dance

- Roost

- Earthquake

I like it, Provide some nice coverage and can tank some hits too. A wish set on vappy could remove the need for roost and free up room for an elemental punch/Draco Meteor/Fireblast/anything for extra coverage

Astra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Rapid Spin

- Ice Beam

- Thunderbolt

- Surf

I would say vappy replaces this really. I wanna try and stop banging on about wish... but wish would eliminate the need for rapid spin, thus freeing up a space for a whole new pokemon. (Starmie allows for Magnezone to take out 1/2 of your team too, possibly 3/4... where as if blissey was here, magnezone would be stopped dead in its tracks)

Prometheus (Infernape) (M) @ Lum Berry

Trait: Blaze

EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spd / 192 SAtk

Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)

- Nasty Plot

- Flamethrower

- Close Combat

- Grass Knot

I still urge fire blast as you can see from my print screen above, but otherwise infernape is a great wall breaker.

[EchoLandon]

I meant to get rid of rapid spin yes. I wil do that. But vap replacing starmie makes no sense. Starmie is a special sweeper. Vaporeon is support. And before I get rid of Starmie I will get rid of vaporeon.

I battled 4 people.

1. 1-0 me. It felt hard to get this win. I barely did with vappy surfing at the end. Not to mention this was a UU team I fought.

2. 0-6 them. sheddy sweep

3. 4-0 me. Nice sub-->scizor sweep

4. 0-4 them. fail. Just fail.

Mamoswine is dying much faster now. Infernape used to give at least as good as he got and now that isnt happening.

Alexander is the same.

Vaporeon isnt working right.

Scizor is carrying the team.

Starmie is the same.

Infernape isnt adjusted yet.

I am not complaining about your advice. I will keep battling with a tweek here and there and see what I can do. Perhaps all I need is to adjust.

[Tbird]

Well there's bound to be teething problems as is with any changes, keep at it and try all the different things out, eventually you'll find something for each set.

I guess I'm just not seeing the team from your point of view here.

[EchoLandon]

I think I need to get rid of vaporeon.

[EchoLandon]

Alright. I have edited the team and this is what I've come up with.

Europa (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Wish

- Seismic Toss

- Heal Bell

- Stealth Rock

Lead bliss to set up rocks and leave. I then use her later for wish/cleric support.

Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Life Orb

Trait: Snow Cloak

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Ice Shard

- Avalanche

- Earthquake

- Stone Edge

Modified to be a physical attacker.

Alexander (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Inner Focus

EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 12 Def / 184 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Dragon Claw

- Dragon Dance

- Roost

- Earthquake

Same.

Astra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Psychic

- Ice Beam

- Thunderbolt

- Surf

Same.

Flamberge (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Technician

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Brick Break

- Swords Dance

- Bullet Punch

- Roost

Same with Brick break

Prometheus (Infernape) (M) @ Lum Berry

Trait: Blaze

EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spd / 192 SAtk

Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)

- Nasty Plot

- Flamethrower

- Close Combat

- Grass Knot

He is working well I just need to get the hang of boosting.

[Tbird]

Blissey definitely does NOT want to be a lead, throw it where vaporeon was, give it seismic toss, and put mamo back in lead position. That should work well. However without vaporeon you are under serious threat of DD 'Dos.

[EchoLandon]

Ill try that. But I just won 3 battles with this...

[Shogun]

There is no need for Flash Cannon on Heatran, you should use Explosion instead. Starmie would be better with Life Orb instead, so you can get to do strong damage and flexibility. I don't think you need to worry that much about Breloom in your team, but it's all up to you. You're also in trouble against Infernapes, Scizors and Gyarados... try to prepare counters for them.

[EchoLandon]

If I may, people keep telling me not to worry about countering every single pokmeon in the metagame, and then name a few that they think I should counter....

First off, does Life orb on starmie give it similar power to choice specs?

I got rid of heatran and now have blissey. Starmie and dragonite can kill infernape while starmie can also kill gyarados while my own infernape can kill scizor.

So far this team has been woring far better than any Ive ever had.

Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Snow Cloak

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Ice Shard

- Avalanche

- Earthquake

- Stealth Rock

Europa (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Wish

- Seismic Toss

- Heal Bell

- Toxic

Flamberge (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Technician

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Brick Break

- Swords Dance

- Bullet Punch

- Roost

Alexander (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Inner Focus

EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 12 Def / 184 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Dragon Claw

- Dragon Dance

- Roost

- Earthquake

Astra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Hidden Power [Dark]

- Ice Beam

- Thunderbolt

- Surf

Prometheus (Infernape) (M) @ Lum Berry

Trait: Blaze

EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spd / 192 SAtk

Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)

- Nasty Plot

- Flamethrower

- Close Combat

- Grass Knot

[EchoLandon]

Alright!

This is quite odd. One minute I am pwning with that team and the next I cant win a battle. I am going to have to do SOMETHING.

Get rid of blissey I suppose.....

[randomspot555]

Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Snow Cloak

EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Ice Shard

- Avalanche/Protect/Endeavor/Stone Edge

- Earthquake

- Stealth Rock

At the very least, try those out. Mamoswine has decent speed, and Avalance has that negative priority. This also leaves you a bit weak to the rare lead Gyarados. Endeavor, Protect, or Stone Edge help out with that.

Europa (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Wish

- Seismic Toss

- Heal Bell/Flamethrower/Ice Beam

- Toxic/Thunder Wave

Wish is excellent especially since you don't have a Rapid Spinner. Heal Bell/Aroma Therapy might not be as nearly useful as you might think, so you might want to test out an elemental attack of your choice. Thunder Wave, as long as you can avoid hitting Electivire, is I think much more useful than Toxic, and has better accuracy.

Scizor and Dragonite are fine.

Astra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Hidden Power [Dark]

- Ice Beam

- Thunderbolt

- Surf

HP Dark is a horrible Hidden Power because nothing takes x4 damage from it. Think of Hidden Power like this:

Hidden Power has the max base power of 70. For super effective damage (x2), it hits for 140 damage. For quad damage, it hits for 280.

Compare that to STAB Surf, which hits 120 for neutral damage.

This means you only want to use Hidden Power for x4 damage. That is HP Ice, HP Fire, HP Fighting, HP Electric, HP Ground, and HP Grass. HP Ice is by far the most common, the others less so.

Starmie doesn't need HP Ice, Grass, or Electric due to Ice Beam, Grass Knot, and Thunderbolt. The major baddie who takes x4 from Fighting also take x2 damage from STAB Surf. That leaves HP Fire, which'll hit Scizor.

You can put HP Fire on Choiced Starmie or Grass Knot, depending on if you want to hit Scizor or Swampert. Trick is also an option and will cripple special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax.