[Concept] Wii & DS Wonder Card Distribution Application

[Nigoli]

http://wiibrew.org/wiki/GEMS_Wifi

Why I can't make it:

I wish I could code these things myself, but I'm not really much of a programmer myself and don't know how to use DevKitPro or any good at C++ for compiling homebrew apps. Also, I don't own any compatible Wireless devices (RT2500~60 Chipset) with for capturing things like DS and Wii Signals other than the devices their selves.

What it would do (More to come):

A Homebrew Application strictly for sending Generation IV & V (Even though there isn't anything yet, It'll probably be fairly easy to dump them from Saves with Hex Editor just like I've done for HG/SS before programs were able to do it for you in Saves. Generation V should and will have WCs like GIV despite opinions) Wonder Cards wirelessly to the DS through *.pcd files. Having a Folder and selecting which Wonder Card you want to Distribute.

Things to be added later:

• Wonder Card Picture Previewer (like Pokémon Mystery Gift Editor and it's Show Card Preview feature) [Vertical and Horizontal for 16:9 and 4:3 TVs]
  
• Cry Sounds when in Distribution Mode
  
• PKMN Sprite (Could have detection for Wonder Card Distribution Value, if Platinum shared, Platinum Sprite and so forth. Maybe a Box above the Wonder Card display)
  
• Throbber (Could have the PKMN Sprite Animate once sending the Wonder Card, or a simple square throbber)
  
• Settings to restrict Wonder Card's Distribution Value for each Game Version (Distributions for certain versions / All Versions)
  
• Wonder Card Queuer (Press a button to move onto the next Wonder Card in a folder, or select which Cards to Distribute, and hit a button to move on to the next queued Wonder Card)
  
• Wonder Card Capture Mode (Capture a Wonder Card that's in hosting mode and saves it as a PCD file) [Thanks to trance for the idea!]

Concept Layouts (Might change the BG to a Darker Blue Tiled one for less eye strain):

[Wii] Before Distributing (Press A to Distribute w/Animate and Sound Cry):

[DS](Animated GIF) Before Distributing (Press R for Card Switch, A to Distribute w/Animate and Sound Cry on Card):

How it would be useful:

Anything you could think of really. Not having a Flash Cart but a Homebrew Channel on the Wii with a Retail Copy and DS. I mainly use custom Distribution Roms with Patchers to send my Wonder Cards to my games. I'm quite tired of using these things even though it's basic as can be. Plus it would conserve space not having multiple files that are 8MB/1.5MB. Where as it would take up 856 Bytes times around how many files you have on your SD/microSD/microSDHC Card.

Conclusion:

In the end it's also just as legitimate (Legal, for people using that terminology) getting the Event as long as you had the Wonder Card straight from the Event. It's a steal, and as great as acquiring an Event legitimately like PBR Pikachu for instance. It's the perfect bargin and solution for people not wanting to fiddle around with their Networks for the GTS exploits, and want a generated Pokemon with a different Nature randomly. If developers didn't decide on it originally because of some single Event that was made up by a fan, then why not a Wii Version? It's not like anyone is going to take their Wii to an Event and distribute some derogatory thing. Besides, PP does have some programs that deal with Wonder Card files at least. Why not?

If it hasn't been thought of before. This is something to keep in mind though. I have a contact that has knowledge of sending Wireless Signal activations through compiling his own custom applications to a few DS games of the Rockman (Megaman) Series of games. I'll ask him if nobody else knows much about Wonder Card signals. Either that or I'll purchase a PCI Card that has the Chipset itself eventually for reading the WC Signals and attempt to figure it all out on my own. Both ways will take a long time probably.

Thanks for reading.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Nigoli

[Codr]

Generation V should and will have WCs like GIV despite opinions)

I don't see how you could know this with enough certainty to say "will". In fact, I'd wager that you couldn't know.

[Vertical and Horizontal for 16:9 and 4:3 TVs]

...TVs?

In the end it's also just as legitimate (Legal, for typical people using that terminology)

I also can't stand the way people use those two terms (assuming I'm interpreting your mood here correctly), but that's not exactly related to this topic!

Ultimately, I think it'd be a lot more time-efficient and consistent with existing methods for someone to just check the DS games' assembly code to find out exactly how the PID/IVs are generated. I'll probably do this myself at some point. Also, I'd be a little surprised if someone hasn't done it already anyway and I just don't know about it.

[Nigoli]

I don't see how you could know this with enough certainty to say "will". In fact, I'd wager that you couldn't know.

It should most likely have them. It's the only good and successful way to acquire Gifts. And how else would you be able to identify which Events acquiring, have, and Gift sending? If they're called something else, it'll most likely be the same type of deal in terms of a block data with different attributes / values. How else would they give out a Pokemon that has Random attributes?

...TVs?

For the Concept of the Wii Version.

I also can't stand the way people use those two terms (assuming I'm interpreting your mood here correctly), but that's not exactly related to this topic!

I apologize. I'm just having a rough night wanting to vent and rant. I'll probably end up Editing the post in the future.

Ultimately, I think it'd be a lot more time-efficient and consistent with existing methods for someone to just check the DS games' assembly code to find out exactly how the PID/IVs are generated. I'll probably do this myself at some point. Also, I'd be a little surprised if someone hasn't done it already anyway and I just don't know about it.

but that's not exactly related to this topic!

[Codr]

It should most likely have them. It's the only good and successful way to acquire Gifts. And how else would you be able to identify which Events acquiring, have, and Gift sending? If they're called something else, it'll most likely be the same type of deal in terms of a block data with different attributes / values. How else would they give out a Pokemon that has Random attributes?

It's pretty presumptuous to think that they couldn't throw out something completely different. They could radically alter all kinds of things, including the entire Pokemon structure, if they chose to do so. I'm not sure why you're trying to argue this when, again, nobody can know.

For the Concept of the Wii Version.

Err, yeah, I kind of ignored all the Wii-esque comments, since it seemed pretty unrelated to anything I ever see discussed in this section of the forums.

I apologize. I'm just having a rough night wanting to vent and rant. I'll probably end up Editing the post in the future.

I didn't mean to say that YOUR post's contents were somehow extraneous. It was actually amusing. I was continuing on with the "ranting", and didn't want to sidetrack it down that path, so I was referring to my own statement.

The last thing I said is perfectly related to the topic, and your post. I'm not sure why there's an obvious negativity being presented either. It's like you feel offended that I don't think your idea is wonderful. Regardless, your goal is to have a more perfectly simulated environment for receiving event Pokemon, is it not? Rather than dealing with all of the network-related issues involved with your method (and anything else that might be unforeseen, or that I'm just not thinking of), finding a way that works with all the tools we currently have just makes more sense.

[scorcher9910]

I also can't stand the way people use those two terms (assuming I'm interpreting your mood here correctly), but that's not exactly related to this topic!

A bit off-topic, but I totally agree with you on that point.

Anyways, I think they will have WCs in 5. And yes i guess a Wii homebrew is plausible, but it seems kinda.....ehh.

I dont really like my Wii. Haha.

[Poryhack]

This idea has been presented before in various forms and I've always liked it. The best thing about it is that it's the only way for people to send themselves wondercards without buying extra hardware. Assuming you have a Wii and a DS, your retail pokemon game is all you need (of course it would still work with flashcards but it's more effort than just save editing). In the past I've pretty much told people that it wasn't gonna happen but this GEMS thing changes everything; good find! It will still hypothetically be a lot of work and take some understanding that I don't have but it's good to know the groundwork has already been laid.

The last thing I said is perfectly related to the topic, and your post. I'm not sure why there's an obvious negativity being presented either. It's like you feel offended that I don't think your idea is wonderful. Regardless, your goal is to have a more perfectly simulated environment for receiving event Pokemon, is it not? Rather than dealing with all of the network-related issues involved with your method (and anything else that might be unforeseen, or that I'm just not thinking of), finding a way that works with all the tools we currently have just makes more sense.

Well, it's not strictly related. Whether you hack a PCD file into your save directly or you get it from a regular distribution, the pokemon in it will have its PID and IVs generated by the game at the time you pick it up from the green man. No need to figure out PID-IV relationships just so you can get legal WC pokemon (although SCV has figured it out). I'm not sure why Nigoli or anyone would care much about making it perfectly simulated as you say, but the perfect simulation is not really the main goal, it's a side-effect. The real treasure here, as I said, is that no extra hardware is necessary. We have the GTS method for PKM files but "the tools we currently have" just don't work for wondercards.

I will also say that there IS one other possibility that I recently brought up that would accomplish the same thing through different methods. Check it out.

[scorcher9910]

This idea has been presented before in various forms and I've always liked it. The best thing about it is that it's the only way for people to send themselves wondercards without buying extra hardware. Assuming you have a Wii and a DS, your retail pokemon game is all you need (of course it would still work with flashcards but it's more effort than just save editing).

Does the Wii not count as extra hardware?

[Codr]

Well, it's not strictly related.

I'm not sure what your definition of strict is, but it still fits mine. I think I just see the end goal differently than you and Nigoli.

No need to figure out PID-IV relationships just so you can get legal WC pokemon (although SCV has figured it out).

I'd have to talk to SCV, or look at the assembly myself to be comfortable with that. Considering the fact that people have already gone to the extreme (well, it's extreme to me) of finding that the PID and IVs are generated from the same RNG seed in the generation 4 games, I'd imagine they'd want a similar guarantee from Wondercard-generated data. I'm not saying it IS done with any sort of verifiability, but that I'm not convinced from just you saying it.

but "the tools we currently have" just don't work for wondercards

You essentially said the opposite by saying that the PID and IV relationship isn't there, assuming there's no relationship between other data for each particular Pokemon and its PID or IVs. If in fact there's nothing that can be tested data-wise, there's nothing stopping someone from passing a properly-generated Pokemon off as a Wondercard Pokemon already. The difference would only be in the person's head, just like the idiotic "legitimate" vs. "legality" garbage people go insane over.

[scorcher9910]

I'm still confused about why people get this technical about...a game.

It's just meant to be fun.

And whoever figured out the whole RNG seed thing and how its all connected....

Has WAY too much time on their hands.

Off-topic, yes, but its still loosely related.

[Nigoli]

but this GEMS thing changes everything; good find! It will still hypothetically be a lot of work and take some understanding that I don't have but it's good to know the groundwork has already been laid.

http://code.google.com/p/wmb-asm/wiki/captures <- Page has a lot of good documentation. Especially for capturing things like Demos. WireShark is something I've used in the past, but didn't have a compatible chipset for capturing DS Demos in the past off my Wii.

I'll ask my Friend if he can capture a Wonder Card distribution with his tools. Might be a while before we get in contact.

[Poryhack]

I'm not sure what your definition of strict is, but it still fits mine. I think I just see the end goal differently than you and Nigoli.

Yeah I think you do. Nigoli mentioned this stuff about perfect simulation and whatnot but it's not really the point at all, at least not to me. The point is that this is a viable way to send your own wondercards with no flashcard or AR. There is no other way besides the hypothetical one I linked to. Admittedly, this is hypothetical as well. I think both should be pursued.

You essentially said the opposite by saying that the PID and IV relationship isn't there, assuming there's no relationship between other data for each particular Pokemon and its PID or IVs. If in fact there's nothing that can be tested data-wise, there's nothing stopping someone from passing a properly-generated Pokemon off as a Wondercard Pokemon already. The difference would only be in the person's head, just like the idiotic "legitimate" vs. "legality" garbage people go insane over.

The issue at hand is not generating legal wondercard pokemon; that games can do that for us on-demand. It's getting the wondercards to the games of people that can't use a save editor or save editing action replay codes. If they want to send some obviously hacked-up wondercards it really doesn't matter to me.

[Codr]

The point is that this is a viable way to send your own wondercards with no flashcard or AR.

The point of Wondercards themselves is almost always to obtain a Pokemon... is it not? Also, I just think this isn't worth the effort when I think about the number of people wanting to do this that don't already have a flash cartridge or an Action Replay.

The issue at hand is not generating legal wondercard pokemon; that games can do that for us on-demand. It's getting the wondercards to the games of people that can't use a save editor or save editing action replay codes.

This is basically the same thing as above. The only purpose I know of that Wondercards serve is to obtain special Pokemon or items, both of which are easily done by other means that're (I think) likely to be more available to people who want to do these things in the first place.

Most of my view on this came from:

In the end it's also just as legitimate (Legal, for people using that terminology) getting the Event as long as you had the Wonder Card straight from the Event. It's a steal, and as great as acquiring an Event legitimately like PBR Pikachu for instance. It's the perfect bargin and solution for people not wanting to fiddle around with their Networks for the GTS exploits, and want a generated Pokemon with a different Nature randomly.

(Referencing the goal of simply obtaining the Wondercard's contents.) I just feel as if someone has the money for a Wii, they should have the money for a what, $20 at most? AR or flash cartridge. (Granted, there are special cases where money wasn't involved at all, and I'm the last person you'd find wanting to spend extra money if it can be avoided.)

[Poryhack]

http://code.google.com/p/wmb-asm/wiki/captures <- Page has a lot of good documentation. Especially for capturing things like Demos. WireShark is something I've used in the past, but didn't have a compatible chipset for capturing DS Demos in the past off my Wii.

I'll ask my Friend if he can capture a Wonder Card distribution with his tools. Might be a while before we get in contact.

I have a Nintendo WiFi USB Connector which is just a rebranded Buffalo WLI-U2-KG54-AI (uses the right chipset for this job). I'll see what I can do to get it working with Wireshark for a start.

EDIT: Damn. The driver only works with PCI and PCMCIA RT2500 devices, no USB. On the other hand this driver is tailored especially for the WiFi USB Connector, but it's for Linux only.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Poryhack

[Poryhack]

Yeah, double post. It seems I didn't look closely enough at GEMS WiFi in my excitement. I think it's using standard wifi to link DS and wii homebrew, not the nintendo-proprietary tweaked version ("NiFi") that PBR and other games use to communicate with the DS. Sadly, this does no good for us. The only time wondercards are transmitted over standard wifi such as this is when you get them via WFC.

This takes me back to the point where I was telling people not to get their hopes up for anything like this. While it is still possible that one could write wii homebrew that can talk to the DS via NiFi, the proof of concept just isn't there and it doesn't look like it ever will be. It's certainly not an area of focus for the usual wii reverse engineer/developer. =(

[Nigoli]

I'll get in contact with my Friend if I see him around then and ask him if he can capture what's being Distributed. I definitely know it's "Ni-Fi", especially if there was another game he worked on that sent something DS to DS like an activation for a non-Pokemon related game.

It's just the matter of him signing online and wanting to do it.

[Poryhack]

Has your friend been able to broadcast his own NiFi? To do it he would need to use a ralink card, wii, or DS. If he used a DS or a ralink card then your idea is kinda screwed. If he used a wii then I'm intrigued, especially because it doesn't look like anyone else has even looked into homebrew with nifi functionality.

[Nigoli]

He had a Ralink Chipset with a PCIMA Card he bought for his Laptop and was able to distribute multiple things at once to a certain game around Summer 2008.

I sent him a Screenshot of a picture, and he was able to deliver what was in the desired picture within a day and made a simple Action Replay Code for it without really needing any device. This isn't anything like Pokemon though, it's just an Activation more or less for these types of games he's done.

[Poryhack]

As cool as that is, not many people have a compatible ralink card. Do you want to make a program that people will have to buy one of these to use? Maybe you want to do it for other reasons and that's perfectly fine, but it just seems to me that there will be virtually no user base for a program like this. A DS flashcard would be a more likely purchase.

[Nigoli]

He also made a DS Rom that was basic barebones to send the activations. I used them before, and it worked like a Pokemon Distribution Cart.

[Poryhack]

While such a thing doesn't really help those who don't have access to extra hardware, it's still a really intriguing idea. It'd be nice to have a legal alternative to the wireless distribution ROMs, especially if it included extra functionality. Loading the wondercards from the flashcard filesystem would be nice.

I've asked around and it sounds like the Wii homebrew idea is really out of the question. Not impossible, but better hackers than most have looked into it and be unable to figure it out. This DS idea is a completely different direction from what I was originally hoping for, but still a worthy one imo. I bought a compatible PCI Ralink card for pretty cheap and intend to start figuring out the protocol when it arrives. As evidenced by your friend writing DS homebrew that utilizes NiFi is doable. Once the protocol is documented we can focus on the DS app.

[Nigoli]

(Referencing the goal of simply obtaining the Wondercard's contents.) I just feel as if someone has the money for a Wii, they should have the money for a what, $20 at most? AR or flash cartridge.

I could argue that you still aren't exactly actually acquiring the Event if it's just injected through a Save File. There's those of us that don't use Save Injectors nor Codes such as myself. ARs and Save Injection programs as good as they are should have be unrelated to this Topic disregarding the first post to tell how this would be useful.

(Granted, there are special cases where money wasn't involved at all, and I'm the last person you'd find wanting to spend extra money if it can be avoided.)

In terms of Wirelessly acquiring a Wonder Card, and still the most legal way of obtaining an Event in my opinion.

Let's say there's a User, that owns a DS and a Wii and wants to do it through this method Wirelessly. I think someone is more likely to purchase a Wii rather than another DS. Why would they want to purchase two of the same thing unless it was broken? Not to mention the User will need a Flash Cart with the other DS if they didn't have one for the Wireless method. Also not to mention DS Flash Carts are more illegal than a Wii with a Homebrew Channel on it especially things you see with News Articles about the R4. ALSO not to mention, it's 2010 and Nintendo Wii demand is less than it was in 2006. There's good deals going around for it. Hell, I got my own Japanese Wii on eBay for $120 w/Free Shipping in 2008. Finally not to mention, people (Without Flash Carts/AR) don't own any of the Generation III games, own a DSi and a Wii, and can't use Pal Park to acquire Pokemon they don't have. I wasn't able to obtain a legal/legit Celebi until it was in the form of a Wonder Card because I lack a retail Generation III Cartridge, despite having to patch a GBA game and needing a completed save with an additional GBA Flash Cart if that were the case of having a Slot-2 FC over a Retail GBA game. And I can't use GBA Slot-2 on my DSi or DSi LL. See how much work that is?

There are more than 3 people I know that don't own DS Flash Cards and it's the year 2010, but own a Wii with the Homebrew Channel or don't have access to another DS. Out of someone I know, they're afraid of getting caught with a DS Flash Cart.

I don't know what else to say. If people don't like the idea, they don't have to post things that are unrelated to the Topic and it's as simple as that. You don't see me going in HyperGTS topics, bashing it for whatever it's worth. And I don't mean to offend any developers of programs or other users with this post.

I've asked around and it sounds like the Wii homebrew idea is really out of the question. Not impossible, but better hackers than most have looked into it and be unable to figure it out.

I'll have to ask around the WiiBrew community at some point if you ever release a DS barebones version of it.

[Guurak]

Couldn't we modify the Wonder Card data in PBR for the Shocking or Heated gift with whatever wonder card we wanted?

[Poryhack]

Couldn't we modify the Wonder Card data in PBR for the Shocking or Heated gift with whatever wonder card we wanted?

You could if you could find it. I've looked pretty hard and been unsuccessful however.

[Poryhack]

I got my PCI card in the mail today. The hacked drivers aren't available for Vista and the XP ones wouldn't install (on Vista). I'll probably downgrade to XP on my desktop since I recently ordered a laptop. Hopefully it'll work then.

[Guest]

Couldn't we modify the Wonder Card data in PBR for the Shocking or Heated gift with whatever wonder card we wanted?

There are far more than these two Wondercard, actually.