Wonderguard Factor

[Greencat]

Wonderguard, an Ability unique to only Shedinja, is sometime hacked onto other Pokémon like Spiritomb (or Wondertomb). Discuss what moves are still capable of hitting a Pokémon with Wonderguard and your opinion on the ability.

[wraith89]

There are a few deterrents to Wonderguard. First thing is status and indirect damage... a Thunder Wave or Will-o-Wisp or Toxic still hits you. Sandstorms and Hail can also cause damage. Also, beware of Leech Seed, Spikes, and Stealth Rocks.

Second factor would be certain direct damage. Other than Super effective attacks, there are two attacks that can still hit a Wonderguarder: Fire Fang and Beat Up. I have no clue why that is so, but not even Thunder Fang or Ice Fang can hit through Wonderguard. It's strange... but hey, at least Flareon gets some brownie points there for being a Wonder Guard deterrer to something not called Wondertomb Kabutops (I had the wonderful opportunity to fight one once... -__-) Perhaps maybe because those two moves are both effective on Shedinja that they forgot to program it to not work on other users of Wonderguard (not that that's supposed to be legal or anything...)

Other things that hit are Future Sight and Doom Desire and even Bide. I don't know what else hits though.

To me, Wonder Guard is a cool concept, but Shedinja just has too many weaknesses that it just doesn't work. If Wonder Guard added in the effects of Magic Guard, then Shedinja would be very usable... but... I guess Shedinja is only useful in Ubers... for being a Kyogre deterrent, but other than that...

[HottSushiz]

Also take in note the ability Mould Breaker, which if i recall correctly 2 Pokemon only possess, Rampardos is a Pokemon with this ability, which has, out of all the Pokemon it comes 2nd in highest attack.

The ability causes any moves from the Pokemon, it will be unaffected from ability's, so if Rampardos did Earthquake on Flygon, that stated Pokemon will still get attacked.

[wraith89]

Also take in note the ability Mould Breaker, which if i recall correctly 2 Pokemon only possess, Rampardos is a Pokemon with this ability, which has, out of all the Pokemon it comes 2nd in highest attack.

The ability causes any moves from the Pokemon, it will be unaffected from ability's, so if Rampardos did Earthquake on Flygon, that stated Pokemon will still get attacked.

Ah yes, I forgot about that. The other one is Pinsir, but he also has Hyper Cutter but the game normally says the Pokemon has Mold Breaker, so it would be wise to switch out. Good catch.

[bear831]

Also take in note the ability Mould Breaker, which if i recall correctly 2 Pokemon only possess, Rampardos is a Pokemon with this ability, which has, out of all the Pokemon it comes 2nd in highest attack.

The ability causes any moves from the Pokemon, it will be unaffected from ability's, so if Rampardos did Earthquake on Flygon, that stated Pokemon will still get attacked.

That great to know I didn't know that. This will be great knowledge to use.

[Destati]

- Due to a glitch, Fire Fang penetrates Wonder Guard

- Pokemon with the ability Mold Breaker can disable abilities

- Pokemon with the ability Scrappy can penetrate Wonder Guard

- Pokemon with the move Gastro Acid can disable abilities

- Pokemon with either Odor Sleuth or Foresight can penetrate Wonder Guard

- Toxic, Poisoning and Burn statuses can slowly defeat Pokemon with Wonderguard (negated if they have Refresh)

- Sandstorm and Hail penetrate Wonder Guard defenses unless the pokemon in question resists those weathers naturally.

- Field affects such as Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Leech Seed and Stealth Rock can deal damage to Wonderguard users

- In total, the moves Beat Up, Bide, Doom Desire, Fire Fang, Future Sight, Hail, Leech Seed, Sandstorm, Spikes, Stealth Rock and Struggle all penetrate WonderGuard

[ItsSuperEffective]

In otherwords, a pokemon with wonderguard is not invincible, it just cant be attacked the normal way.

[Okami]

Basically, yeah ^

I remember about eight months back, I created a totally-hacked Ice-Umbreon per request of my stepbrother...with wonderguard. He used it against his friends in battle, and they all freaked and cried like little girls. It was quite hysterical, to be honest.

I haven't created a hacked pokemon quite like that, since ;

[wraith89]

Basically, yeah ^

I remember about eight months back, I created a totally-hacked Ice-Umbreon per request of my stepbrother...with wonderguard. He used it against his friends in battle, and they all freaked and cried like little girls. It was quite hysterical, to be honest.

I haven't created a hacked pokemon quite like that, since ;

Wow. How did you hack the Umbreon's typing? Ice isn't a good type to Wonderguard though... it has weakness to four types, three of them being common to very common.

I had the privilege to fight against a Wonderguarded shiny Kabutops with Aura Sphere... which was my friend's. He had no idea it was Wonderguarded though because it came from the GTS (I had no idea either because all I've been using were super effective attacks against it). Fortunately, my Swampert took it down.

[Okami]

I didn't. I'm just saying it was Ice because of all the ice moves it had

Hey, it was for the little brother ; I was just following what he wanted for him.

That's crazy. I've never been able to put up a hacked pokemon on the GTS. I've tried and tried. But have always failed. I'm working right now to make legal hacks to see if those can be traded off.

[wraith89]

I didn't. I'm just saying it was Ice because of all the ice moves it had

Hey, it was for the little brother ; I was just following what he wanted for him.

That's crazy. I've never been able to put up a hacked pokemon on the GTS. I've tried and tried. But have always failed. I'm working right now to make legal hacks to see if those can be traded off.

I guess that was before Nintendo put all those safeguards against hacked Pokemon. Don't you hate it when they give you some Pokemon you want but it has a terrible nickname? I traded my level 100 Gallade (nicknamed Eliwood after the Fire Emblem character) for a Munchlax (how stupid of me...) and it was named "Buttmunch" or something like that. Seriously... I hate that.

But I digress. Fire Fang would have barely scathed a WonderGuard Kabutops though... but at least this gives Flareon SOME merit... as a Wondertomb deterrent!

[darkfaith]

Wouldnt it feel great to own a guy who thinks he'll win every game with a wondertomb with a simple fire fang? :kikkoman:

[wraith89]

Wouldnt it feel great to own a guy who thinks he'll win every game with a wondertomb with a simple fire fang? :kikkoman:

It'll take more than one Fire Fang though... because Spiritomb has some pretty nice defenses. I'll just use an Adamant Choice Banded Flareon with Fire Fang and see her wreck some havoc against random Wondertombs. They'll Will-o-Wisp more often than not so switching in Flareon will activate Flash Fire... and Fire Fang against Wondertomb will surely do some heavy damage coming off a STAB Flash Fired 130 base attack stat with Positive nature and Choice Band... although that 65 base power from Fire Fang offsets it. And that 95% accuracy hurts. Some person gave up his Togekiss because his Togekiss's Air Slash (a 95% accurate move) missed 5 times in a row for him once...

[randomspot555]

The problem with Wonderguard is it's only available on Shedinja.

And while it's immune to many of the most common attack types in the game (Ground, Fighting, Ice, Electric), it carries just enough weaknesses that almost every team will have at least 1-2 Pokemon who can hurt Shedinja. Add in that a variety of status and weather effects and rocks and spikes can hurt Shedinja, and it's not as appealing as it seems.

So there's two ways to use Shedinja. The TLDR is that your entire team has to be built around it. AND you can't play Shedinja too early.

To really get Shedinja to be effective, you need a variety of Pokemon on a team.

• At least one Pokemon who can quickly change the weather in case sand storm or hail comes up. Lots of Pokemon can learn Sunny Day or Rain Dance, but it's usually at the cost of a useful move.
  
• OMG if you can Baton Pass a sub to Shedinja, your opponent should probably just say "gg". This protects it from so many status (but not damaging weather). However, the most common Baton Passer, Ninjask, carries many of Shedinja's weaknesses. Others carry at least one (Scizor=fire, Togekiss=rock). The "best" is Ambipom, but when was the last time you were able to get Ambipom behind a sub?
  
• If you let Shedinja out in the early part of the game, your opponent will do all it can to keep it's "Shedinja counter" alive. So don't let it out early, no matter how tempting it is.
  
• Have a variety of status absorbers. Yeah, most of the time, one Natural Cure user or one Rest Talk user is fine. Here? Not so. Get someone with natural cure. Use a RestTalker. Get Heatran (absorbs burns AND poison) and some ground type (Swampert?).
  

This is a ridiculous list, I know. But if you don't follow this list to a T (and I know I haven't), your Shedinja team is going to suck.

[bear831]

nice list I think that I will try it.

[wraith89]

The problem with Wonderguard is it's only available on Shedinja.

And while it's immune to many of the most common attack types in the game (Ground, Fighting, Ice, Electric), it carries just enough weaknesses that almost every team will have at least 1-2 Pokemon who can hurt Shedinja. Add in that a variety of status and weather effects and rocks and spikes can hurt Shedinja, and it's not as appealing as it seems.

So there's two ways to use Shedinja. The TLDR is that your entire team has to be built around it. AND you can't play Shedinja too early.

To really get Shedinja to be effective, you need a variety of Pokemon on a team.

• At least one Pokemon who can quickly change the weather in case sand storm or hail comes up. Lots of Pokemon can learn Sunny Day or Rain Dance, but it's usually at the cost of a useful move.
  
• If you can Baton Pass a sub to Shedinja, your opponent should probably just say "gg". This protects it from so many status (but not damaging weather). However, the most common Baton Passer, Ninjask, carries many of Shedinja's weaknesses. Others carry at least one (Scizor=fire, Togekiss=rock). The "best" is Ambipom, but when was the last time you were able to get Ambipom behind a sub?
  
• If you let Shedinja out in the early part of the game, your opponent will do all it can to keep it's "Shedinja counter" alive. So don't let it out early, no matter how tempting it is.
  
• Have a variety of status absorbers. Yeah, most of the time, one Natural Cure user or one Rest Talk user is fine. Here? Not so. Get someone with natural cure. Use a RestTalker. Get Heatran (absorbs burns AND poison) and some ground type (Swampert?).
  

This is a ridiculous list, I know. But if you don't follow this list to a T (and I know I haven't), your Shedinja team is going to suck.

Blah. I just use Shedinja in a battle where a Kyogre used 6 Calm Minds or something and I'd like to force it to switch. Too bad most don't carry Ancientpower

[5ku112]

Does Worryseed work?

[wraith89]

Does Worryseed work?

I'm sure it does. It changes the ability to Insomnia. Good thinking.