Pokémon KOR Spring Carnival 2015 Rayquaza has it's OT changed by HOME making it flag as illegal in PKHeX

[SexyMalasada]

Hello everyone!
New user here and first post, so sorry if it's in the wrong section!

Not sure if anyone else is aware of this or if it has been address here, but today I found out that HOME changes the OT of this particular event, much like trading certain events would make their name change to Sun & Moon back in gen 7.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_local_event_Pokémon_distributions_in_Generation_VI#Pok.C3.A9mon_Spring_Carnival_2015_Rayquaza
Attached are 2 snapshots of PKHeX, 1 depicting the Rayquaza in a Gen 7 save, and the other in a Gen 8 save after transferring through HOME.
As you can see in Gen 7 it checks out, no flags at all; Upon transferring to HOME and then SwSh, you can see the OT was changed, and PKHeX now flags it as illegal, curiously so because it doesn't flag everything it usually does for these cases (all moves and fateful encounter usually flag as illegal/Mystery Gift not in DB), but instead iy only flags the 3rd move, in this case Thunder, and so it renders it illegal as it claims to not have any matching Event in the MystGift DB.

If there is a compilation thread of sorts for these cases (like there is one for those affected by the gen 7 trading issue) and this Event is not on there, I'd appreciate it if someone let's me know so I can post there to add this one to the list!

Thank you

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by SexyMalasada
added event link

[theSLAYER]

Your Rayquaza was redeeemed has a non-Korean language tag I assume.

From what I've seen, it happens to mons when language tag doesn't match the language used in the OT.

[SexyMalasada]

Hey theSlayer!
It is actually KOR tag and name as shown by this other screenshot of it in pkhex:

I think maybe the fact that this OT has numbers mixed with Korean characters is what 'bugged' and made HOME change it's OT?

I have no idea what the changed OT means as I can't read Korean but I assume it's 'HOME.', in the same way other events were changed to 'Sun.' and etc because of 'wrong' characters being used in the Ula'Ula, XY&Z, etc OTs. Now why this only happened when transferring form Bank to Home and not when trading & depositing between gen 6 & 7 games and Bank is what's got me puzzled..
Are there other documented cases like this happening exclusively when transferring from Bank to Home that you or someone else is aware of?

 

Cheers!

[ICanSnake]

17 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

Your Rayquaza was redeeemed has a non-Korean language tag I assume.

From what I've seen, it happens to mons when language tag doesn't match the language used in the OT.

I have the same Rayquaza, and it was redeemed in KOR language. But I have a question about this specific Rayquaza too. I traded for this Rayquaza on February 17, 2017 (the date my file says it was created). My version of this Rayquaza has an invalid OT memory flag, which to my understanding shouldn't happen, and from what I have researched tells me that the Rayquaza was genned in a gen 6 save file. The person who redeemed this Rayquaza has a history of genning other events, and they were banned by /r/pokemontrades for trading self-obtained hacks. The problem, is this Rayquaza has full picture redemption proof and it was redeemed for someone I know. I have always assumed that the legal versions of this Rayquaza were fixed from the illegal ones (illegal original, legal modified), because it would make less sense if it was the other way around. This is not the first time I have seen the same event have both legal and illegal versions solely due to OT memory errors. Is it possible for you to give your own opinion? Thanks.

Spoiler

Here are the proof pictures that belong to this Rayquaza:

https://imgur.com/a/yvII5

Back in 2017, I asked the person it was proofed for (Flare) about this Rayquaza, and she couldn't comment on it either. I think she had the same error one I have, but I have seen the legal one the OP shows too. They are the exact same except for this error.

[theSLAYER]

4 minutes ago, ICanSnake said:

I have the same Rayquaza, and it was redeemed in KOR language. But I have a question about this specific Rayquaza too. I traded for this Rayquaza on February 17, 2017 (the date my file says it was created). My version of this Rayquaza has an invalid OT memory flag, which to my understanding shouldn't happen, and from what I have researched tells me that the Rayquaza was genned in a gen 6 save file. The person who redeemed this Rayquaza has a history of genning other events, and they were banned by /r/pokemontrades for trading self-obtained hacks. The problem, is this Rayquaza has full picture redemption proof and it was redeemed for someone I know. I have always assumed that the legal versions of this Rayquaza were fixed from the illegal ones (illegal original, legal modified), because it would make less sense if it was the other way around. This is not the first time I have seen the same event have both legal and illegal versions solely due to OT memory errors. Is it possible for you to give your own opinion? Thanks.

  Hide contents

Here are the proof pictures that belong to this Rayquaza:

https://imgur.com/a/yvII5

Back in 2017, I asked the person it was proofed for (Flare) about this Rayquaza, and she couldn't comment on it either. I think she had the same error one I have, but I have seen the legal one the OP shows too. They are the exact same except for this error.

Yours is flagged illegal for a different reason. As far as I can tell, this thread is regarding HOME changing the OT.

A redemption picture, as much as it is proof, isn't 100% foolproof. Said person could have simply redeemed the Rayquaza properly, then traded you an injected one. The fact that the person has such a history makes me doubt them. Anyway, I don't think we should hijack this thread with other legality issues..

(additionally, it looks like the redemption photo doesn't have your account name, but theirs? they could have simply reused the photo for other similar redemptions..)

[ICanSnake]

4 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

Yours is flagged illegal for a different reason. As far as I can tell, this thread is regarding HOME changing the OT.

A redemption picture, as much as it is proof, isn't 100% foolproof. Said person could have simply redeemed the Rayquaza properly, then traded you an injected one. The fact that the person has such a history makes me doubt them. Anyway, I don't think we should hijack this thread with other legality issues..

(additionally, it looks like the redemption photo doesn't have your account name, but theirs? they could have simply reused the photo for other similar redemptions..)

Right, but I mean I was trying to say the OP's Rayquaza is also illegal for a different reason too. The Home OT changed in gen 8, but the gen 7 version is modified from the original illegal version. Does that make sense?

It was not proofed for me, it was proofed for someone I know (broccoliYT -> Flareblitz13, Flare is the person I know). I asked her how her Rayquaza looked like since she was given it straight from the redeemer, but IIRC her's also has the error flag (I asked in 2017 when I traded for this from someone else, I might be misremembering). I do believe the proof is fake as well, the redeemer took pictures of these redemptions but traded Flare a genned Rayquaza that looks similar to the one in the pictures. So it may be what you said, but it applies to her. Is that correct? Let me know if I am misguided or if I should take this to a different thread, I have questioned both versions of this Rayquaza for years and my result was that they were both faked.

[theSLAYER]

Before we begin, I had to retype everything, as my page refreshed mid-typing, so my response might be a bit choppy and brief.

On 12/20/2020 at 3:25 PM, ICanSnake said:

Right, but I mean I was trying to say the OP's Rayquaza is also illegal for a different reason too. The Home OT changed in gen 8, but the gen 7 version is modified from the original illegal version. Does that make sense?

While possible, the point is HOME changed the OT. As per the screenshot, you can see the OT is HOME in Korean.
As such, PKHeX doesn't recognize the event at all. It overshadows the memory problem.
(And in my opinion, the memory problem isn't a real thing)

On 12/20/2020 at 3:25 PM, ICanSnake said:

It was not proofed for me, it was proofed for someone I know (broccoliYT -> Flareblitz13, Flare is the person I know). I asked her how her Rayquaza looked like since she was given it straight from the redeemer, but IIRC her's also has the error flag (I asked in 2017 when I traded for this from someone else, I might be misremembering). I do believe the proof is fake as well, the redeemer took pictures of these redemptions but traded Flare a genned Rayquaza that looks similar to the one in the pictures. So it may be what you said, but it applies to her. Is that correct? Let me know if I am misguided or if I should take this to a different thread, I have questioned both versions of this Rayquaza for years and my result was that they were both faked.

I was editing my previous post when you replied, so I'll just copy-paste it here:
(Was to be an) Edit: To further add on to this, it's possible I misunderstood what you said, and in fact the person who gave you to Rayquaza, and the person who photo proofed, are two different people. In any case, the wonder card we have has no memory or feelings on it. Additionally, if you create a wonder card with an old version of the wc6creator, one of the things it does, is to clone a line of code down (known as watermarking).

1 - Original line
2 - cloned line

We now know the location of the cloned line controls memory and feeling in Gen 6 (source).

I cloned the line down to simulate watermarking, and imported it into PKHeX.

This error looks familiar, doesn't it?

So my present theory is that your Rayquaza was claimed with a card that has been tampered with, hence the invalid feeling. (The wonder card we have has no feelings. Additionally, off the top of my head, I don't think any Gen 6 events has memories and feelings preprogrammed).
What could help confirm or deny this theory, is while your Rayquaza is viewed, check the OT_Feeling in batch editor.

Just attach a screenshot that looks the same as above.
 

[SexyMalasada]

Wow lot's of information all of a sudden!

Unfortunately I don't remember who traded this Rayquaza to me @ICanSnake, but I can confirm that the proof link you shared for yours is the exact same I have for mine!
I'm still green on legality checking as this is all new to me so I might be wrong, but it's my understanding that just like any other Pokemon in the game, Mystery Gifts and Events roll a random PID (within the specifications of the WC for shiny locked, IV locked etc) and EC, so the fact that your Rayquaza has the exact same values as mine makes it seem like they are in fact the same Pokemon/file..

If my assumptions are incorrect and PID/EC is locked and set though, then could it be that yours is a case of passing off proof of a different Pokemon that was actually redeemed, for the one you were traded, as @theSLAYER mentioned..

The fact that you know the redeemer and obtained the Rayquaza from the person they redeemed it for or makes it more weird.. But since you say that they had a history of trading self hacked events it could very much be that they redeemed a Rayquaza at the event but traded a genned/incorrectly injected (including theSlayer's suggested method above) one and passed the proof off as there's no sure way to tie it to the actual Pokemon unfortunately . Why would they do that though? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nevertheless, I didn't mind the hijack, but the issue I raised is in fact that of HOME changing this Rayquaza's OT when transferred and if this is 'normal' behavior, and if more (and which?) events might be affected by this same issue? If you have access to your Gen 8 saves, could I ask that you transfer a copy of your Rayquaza up to Home and SwSh and check to see if it suffers the same bug ICanSnake? I might just inject one with the WC here and after checking all is ok in pkhex, transfer it up and see if it changes the OT as well. If there are conflicting results there and no change happens, it might mean both our Quaza's are haccs  
 

Also not sure if relevant but here's the pertinent screenshot from my Quaza @theSLAYER

Cheers!

Edited December 20, 2020 by SexyMalasada

[theSLAYER]

6 hours ago, SexyMalasada said:

Why would they do that though? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

some people would like to keep legit events to themselves.

If they only have to go to the Pokémon Center/Pokémon Store once for themselves, and able to reuse different angles of the proof and can send out unlimited mons for clout or something, without having to go to the physical location multiple times, then maybe that's enough for them.

It's like asking why do people lie on the internet? XD

6 hours ago, SexyMalasada said:

Nevertheless, I didn't mind the hijack, but the issue I raised is in fact that of HOME changing this Rayquaza's OT when transferred and if this is 'normal' behavior, and if more (and which?) events might be affected by this same issue? If you have access to your Gen 8 saves, could I ask that you transfer a copy of your Rayquaza up to Home and SwSh and check to see if it suffers the same bug ICanSnake? I might just inject one with the WC here and after checking all is ok in pkhex, transfer it up and see if it changes the OT as well. If there are conflicting results there and no change happens, it might mean both our Quaza's are haccs  
 

Let's for now ignore the potential for your HOME Rayquaza to be hacked (and by extension, ignore the request to send ICanSnake's Ray up to HOME).

HOME doesn't have good enough hack checks, and only check really rudimentary stuff (like illegal alt forms, that kinda thing).
So your OT being changed isn't because "it's probably hacked". It's likely due to language tag and OT language mismatch. I don't think you answered me, but was your Ray's language not Korean?
 

6 hours ago, SexyMalasada said:

Also not sure if relevant but here's the pertinent screenshot from my Quaza @theSLAYER

Your memory is 0, so definitely not the same issue as @ICanSnake.
 

6 hours ago, SexyMalasada said:

and if more (and which?) events might be affected by this same issue?

At this point there may be too many events to list.
Presumably, any Korean or Japanese OT that doesn't have Korean or Japanese language tag (respectively) will potentially get affected by the HOME OT rename. I'll first need confirmation on what language is your Ray.
(note: I partially feel that maybe your mon IS Korean, since the OT was renamed to Korean. It may have been renamed due to illegal characters in OT or something; either way, a fail on HOME's part or a fail on the dev team that originally gave Ray that OT)

HOME renaming event mons has been known. This is one of the earliest case (if not the earliest) that I've heard of:
link

Also, this doesn't just affect event mons:
link

[SexyMalasada]

18 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

Let's for now ignore the potential for your HOME Rayquaza to be hacked (and by extension, ignore the request to send the ICanSnake's Ray up to HOME).

HOME doesn't have good enough hack checks, and only check really rudimentary stuff (like illegal alt forms, that kinda thing).
So your OT being changed isn't because "it's probably hacked". It's likely due to language tag and OT language mismatch. I don't think you answered me, but was your Ray's language not Korean?

I did in my second post, I confirmed that it is indeed KOR language (name) with KOR tag, so the Tag language vs OT language shouldn't be an issue here

18 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

Presumably, any Korean or Japanese OT that doesn't have Korean or Japanese language tag (respectively) will potentially get affected by the HOME OT rename. I'll first need confirmation on what language is your Ray.
(note: I partially feel that maybe your mon IS Korean, since the OT was renamed to Korean. It may have been renamed due to illegal characters in OT or something; either way, a fail on HOME's part)

This is what I proposed earlier, that it could be an issue with the numbers vs KOR characters in the OT, but that wouldn't explain why the OT remains intact through trading in Gens 6 & 7 when other events had theirs changed for having 'illegal' characters on their Event OT too 

18 minutes ago, theSLAYER said:

HOME renaming event mons has been known. This is one of the earliest case (if not the earliest) that I've heard of:
link

Also, this doesn't just affect event mons:
link

Yes I'm familiar with both of those findings by Anubis as I frequent a few discords she does too and have a chat with her once in a while; but even there the OT change happens when trading via HOME, this was not the case here, the Rayquaza wasn't traded, it had simply arrived from Bank and was sent to SwSh so this seems like yet another (new?) bug 

If you'd like I could share the pk7 file of it with you np, so you could take a look at it yourself and run some tests if you want!

Cheers!

Edited December 20, 2020 by SexyMalasada

[theSLAYER]

24 minutes ago, SexyMalasada said:

I did in my second post, I confirmed that it is indeed KOR language (name) with KOR tag, so the Tag language vs OT language shouldn't be an issue here

My bad, I must have missed it. Tho further down I did say that I think it was likely some other issue related to the OT
(which we'll talk about in this next point )

24 minutes ago, SexyMalasada said:

This is what I proposed earlier, that it could be an issue with the numbers vs KOR characters in the OT, but that wouldn't explain why the OT remains intact through trading in Gens 6 & 7 when other events had theirs changed for having 'illegal' characters on their Event OT too 

To go back to my

Quote

(note: I partially feel that maybe your mon IS Korean, since the OT was renamed to Korean. It may have been renamed due to illegal characters in OT or something; either way, a fail on HOME's part or a fail on the dev team that originally gave Ray that OT)

line:

Just speculation, but I'm leaning towards OT Length being the "something".
If you pasted that OT into any other KOR Pokemon, you'll get this:

We need to check for other Korean or Japanese events that have names that are too long.

Note: Japanese and Korean OT, and maybe even CHS/CHT, have a smaller character limit than European languages.
So while all that data space can be used for characters, when playing JPN/KOR/CHS/CHT in-game, you have no way of choosing such a long OT.

24 minutes ago, SexyMalasada said:

Yes I'm familiar with both of those findings by Anubis as I frequent a few discords she does too and have a chat with her once in a while; but even there the OT change happens when trading via HOME, this was not the case here, the Rayquaza wasn't traded, it had simply arrived from Bank and was sent to SwSh so this seems like yet another (new?) bug 

Hard to call it a bug, since maybe it's intended behavior to change OT names, when they are too long, contain swear words, etc.

If you have an active Bank subscription, and also 3DS save manipulation, this claim should be easy to test: Transfer up another mon that has a long OT, and transfer up another mon that has a bad word as OT.

24 minutes ago, SexyMalasada said:

If you'd like I could share the pk7 file of it with you np, so you could take a look at it yourself and run some tests if you want!

I don't have Bank subscription, so I can't run any such tests, sadly.

[SexyMalasada]

Oh! I hadn’t thought about that! I keep forgetting that asian languages have shorter character limits. Maybe this wasn’t checked for in gens 6&7, making events such as these ‘escape’ trading unscathed, while HOME does!

I do have access to bank and 3DS save manipulation so I can indeed test it; just gotta find other JPN/KOR events with too long OTs! If I can’t find any I’ll just do it with a random poke, make its name too long for the respective lang tag and see if it’s affected too.

I’ll also transfer one of those affected by trades in gen 7 (that still has its OT intact) and see if it too gets altered by HOMe while I’m at it!

I’ll report my findings tomorrow after I’ve done it.

Thanks @theSLAYER!

 

Cheers!

Edited December 20, 2020 by SexyMalasada

[theSLAYER]

Just now, SexyMalasada said:

Oh! I hadn’t thought about that! I keep forgetting that asian languages have shorter character limits. Maybe this wasn’t checked for in gens 6&7, making events such as these ‘escape’ trading unscathed, while HOME does!

I do have access to bank and 3DS save manipulation so I can indeed test it; just gotta find other JPN/KOR events with too long OTs! If I can’t find any I’ll just do it with a random poke, make its name too long for the respective lang tag and see if it’s affected too.

Yup. I'm unsure if there is another event with an overly long name, so you may have to do it to a random mon

1 minute ago, SexyMalasada said:

I’ll report my findings tomorrow after I’ve done it.

Thanks @theSLAYER!

 

Cheers!

Cheers

[SexyMalasada]

Ok so it appears the mystery has been solved!

I tested by sending various pokemon (including the actual untouched Rayquaza) from Bank to HOME. I edited a few shiinotics to be KOR lang tag and gave them an OT with KOR 7 characters (limit is 6) consisting of 7 Korean characters, 6+ a number and 6+ a latin letter, and pkhex promptly flagged the OTs like you showed @theSLAYER !
To my surprise though, none had their OTs changed by HOME upon arriving there 

I then went to ask the person I traded the Rayquaza what exactly did he do (if had he traded it via Home specifically), and they told me that they re-checked and the quaza has in fact got its original OT in his game; the pk8 he saw in his pkhex was obtained via dumping through a sysbot, as he has no direct means of save manip in gen 8. This then explains the issue, it's the sysbot who altered the OT, prob because of the exact reason we were discussing here (OT too long for KOR?)!

 

Cheers!

 

[theSLAYER]

Upon closer inspection, the OT is 소드., which is Korean for Sword. (I previously assumed it was HOME, but that isn't the case)
So it appears Sword/Shield changes the OT during trades, when the OT name is too long.

Thanks for the confirmations :3

[SexyMalasada]

6 hours ago, theSLAYER said:

Upon closer inspection, the OT is 소드., which is Korean for Sword. (I previously assumed it was HOME, but that isn't the case)
So it appears Sword/Shield changes the OT during trades, when the OT name is too long.

Thanks for the confirmations :3

Oh that makes sense since dumping via sysbot is essentially a trade for all intents and purposes..

It seems that there are now more event Pokemon with the risk of being ruined by GF’s ‘self-hack’ bugs

You’re welcome, and thank you for that last confirmation too!

Cheers!

[theSLAYER]

1 minute ago, SexyMalasada said:

Oh that makes sense since dumping via sysbot is essentially a trade for all intents and purposes..

It seems that there are now more event Pokemon with the risk of being ruined by GF’s ‘self-hack’ bugs

You’re welcome, and thank you for that last confirmation too!

Cheers!

yeah just we narrowed down that one. As far as I can tell, I can't seem to find any other Asian languaged Event that has too long an OT, so perhaps only this Rayquaza would fail to this. ><

[SexyMalasada]

I'm doing a bunch of Event RNGs rn as I've just learned how to recently, so I'll be on the look out for any that have a bigger than 6 character OT