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Gen VI metagame speculation

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The following post(s) contains spoilers. Read at your own descretion.

As with the last generation, I started a thread that speculated as to how new additions would affect the Pokemon metagame. As the last thread received some good reception I thought I'd start the process all over again.

At the moment there's not a huge deal known, however, with the bombshell of a new typing, a couple new pokemon and moves also thrown into the mix we can all start to make some fairly educated judgements. Also as there's more known, more can be speculated.

In the spoiler below I'll update what we know of the new games (as far as is relevant) as and when the information comes. Feel free to use it as mini encyclopaedia of new information, if you will.

I will be relying mainly on the information given from Serebii and Google. If you think anything else should be added, post with a reliable source.

So have at it, kids! As ever mods feel free to update/reformat this OP in however which way you feel right.

As stated, the idea is to discuss and speculate on the information given. Try to stay away from saying things such as "I think _pokemon_ will learn _move_." But feel free to say things like "If _pokemon_ learned _move_ It could probably Work well as a _role_ because of _reason/Nature/Other known moves_"

I know they seem similar but the latter better provokes discussion, and also provokes, at best, solid educated guesses.

Edited by Tbird
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After a little browsing around it would seem that vine whip is the first move to get a buff (http://serebii.net/xy/updatedattacks.shtml), nothing ground breaking but it certainly shows that we could see some other moves get some buffs or possible nerfs.

Vine whip has gone from 15pp to 25pp and little else is know as to what changes might e made to its base power or accuracy.

A couple of moves that I honk should get a buff are icy wind and electro web. If like to see them with 100 accuracy and and raised to 60bp. Think technician mr mime. It'd show a clear advantage of usin icy wind over hidden power and would potentially be seen with more use on some anti-leads.

What sorts of moves would you guys like to see bumped or nerfed and why?

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Vine Whip... finally at 25 PP? It still is not 40 Base Power like Water Gun / Ember / Powder Snow, as far as we know (but if it is, we finally have a Grass counterpart to the others). Thundershock is the only one with 30 PP (and I think Acid as well). I have no clue why they even made a 35 BP attack with no secondary effects to be 10 PP. If it was a counterpart to Astonish and had 15 PP, that would be fine, but nope. Chuck Testa.

Icy Wind and Electro Web would certainly do well at 60 BP or so. Icy Wind is used quite often, while Electro Web has gotten a wide distribution amongst the Bugs and Electrics now. Icy Wind is still superior due to larger distribution and the fact no types are immune to it, but Electro Web has its uses too. Speaking of which, what in the world is Glaciate? 65 BP / 95% accuracy... it is basically Icy Wind with 10 extra BP attached to it. Now imagine if it actually had the effect that we thought it was supposed to have: reduce speed by 2 stages and not by 1. How awesome would that be? And perhaps bump it up to 75 BP or something awesome. And let it target all foes in multiple Pokemon battles. Then we would finally have a move worthy of a legendary Pokemon, even if it is supposed to be the weaker form, that's certainly not gamebreaking. I'm still wondering what they have against Ice types

The fang attacks are often quite too weak as well. Why not bump them up to 75 BP? The 95% accuracy is fine because they also have a chance of flinching along with their other effects...

We also need a wider distribution of Drill Peck. An 80 base power physical attack and not enough Flying Pokemon receive it? It's like you either need to stick to Brave Bird at 120 BP or use a move that's half its base power at 60 (Wing Attack/Aerial Ace). Whose idea was that? I mean, Moltres would be a fine recipient of the move (and Brave Bird to abuse that 100 base attack), but it seems some OTHER irrelevant bird got Drill Peck AND a fire move and gets away with it *rollseyes* A special Flying move that's 95 BP... like Gale Ball or some wind based attack... idk, would be pretty cool to use over the otherwise lacking Air Slash.

And then there are the whole slew of useless moves like Razor Wind, Submission, etc... some of them need real changes. Would it be bad to get Wild Charge to 120 BP and make it into a counterpart of Wood Hammer/Flare Blitz/Double-Edge/etc? It's quite fine the way it is though: I don't like seeing too many 120 BP moves. I used to think Solarbeam and stuff were special, but in comes Power Whip/Wood Hammer and all these new 120 base power moves... I also would like Mega Kick's accuracy to be bumped up to 85% and Mega Punch to become a 95 BP/100% accurate Normal type move with no effects. I always loved those attacks, but I found them to be lacking (although most Pokemon of that kind spam Return with 102 base power anyways...)

Fire Pokemon would also benefit from a middle powered Fire attack (a physical one since Flamethrower exists), like perhaps Flame Tail as a counterpart to Aqua Tail or something. 90 base power physical Fire attack... would it be too much to ask? Flareon would really appreciate it as well. The problem with the moves nowadays is that there's a WIDE gap between the base powers of certain types of moves (as mentioned with the Flying type moves). I would like Aqua Tail to have a secondary effect of some sort, but that doesn't seem to be happening. The special counterpart, Earth Power, is 90 base power with 100% accuracy and reduces Special Defence... but why didn't the physical Aqua Tail get anything? I'm thinking of disparities here and it does somewhat bug me.

Is Shadow Ball fine as it is? 80 Base Power seems a bit lacking, even if it is coming from some beasts like 130 SpA Gengar. But then again, so is Crunch and Dark Pulse. I'd still like a physical Ghost move that isn't Shadow Claw as it seems lacking. Some Pokemon are still stuck with STAB attacks that are like 70 base power (stares at Weavile). But what I would not like is "equalising" all types to be the same. I like how different types have different strategies, such as Dark types relying on deception (Pursuit/Sucker Punch/etc all seem strategic and atypical of moves), Fire attacks about sheer power, Grass types about slowly stealing enemy's health, etc.

As for nerfs... Splash needs one. It's just too overpowered. :|

In all seriousness, I was hoping for Outrage/Thrash/Petal Dance to go back down to 70 or 90 or 100... but that probably will not happen. Outrage pretty much defined the metagame of the previous 2 generations, and one of the very reasons Fairy types were probably made. I admit, I did complain that in the last generation, everything hit too hard. I was particularly raging at the likes of Haxorus or Conkeldurr and the likes, with ridiculous attack power and high base power moves, but it looks like this kind of thing will keep happening. The thing is, all I've said above about lack of usable STAB options for the likes of Flareon or the likes is because they had to resort to moves like Fire Fang, which didn't compare to what the rest of the metagame had. While we don't want a super bulky metagame like Gen II, I don't believe overkill moves are all that necessary and it only makes things less fun, unless it involves special legendary Pokemon like Victini and V-create and the likes... but even that's a little too much. That's a 270 base power attack on NEUTRAL target with hardly any drawbacks (asides from the Speed drop, but this kind of thing makes it easy to make a Choice Band/Scarf set and revenge nearly anything). However, I would like Selfdestruct and Explosion to become 400/500 base power moves once more, respectively. KOing oneself to only do some 200-250 base power damage is hardly worth the price: that half-defence calculation needs to come back and actually make things like Damp Swampert relevant.

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I don't know I think it'd be counterintuitive to reneg on the boosts to the different 'Thrashes' and honestly I honk it befits them more to be as powerful as they are when you consider the drawbacks. Like hell would Kingdra use a less powerful outrage over dragon pulse sans confusion.

In saying that I'd quite like return nerfed and like you say, have the megas bumped or a new move altogether that had similar power. Return just seems like a cheap easy option.

Oh and Jesus yes! Fires and electrics need some powerful physical attacks, like say power whip, or boltbeamthrower physical counterparts that don't require recoil damage. I think Arcanine would most benefit from a 90bp physical attack on its more tankish sets.

Something that has really kind of got me interested however are the sky battles. I dare say that'll be a tier that'll see an instaban on SR. It could go one of two ways, a very interesting tier wherein residual damage is close to none existent. Or a very boring tier with every team just literally being Salamance/ Skarmory/ Landorus. Depends on how it plays out. I'd certainly hate to see any Pokemon banned from the tier. It'd seem redundant. Maybe it could utilise a sort of LC and LC über sort of thing. I don't know.

I'd also quite like to see an attacking form of eviolite adde to the equation. Tons an tons of glass canons flying around the place. Maybe combusken would end up über too!

Combusken @ attackolite

Speed Boost

252 atk (spa) / 4 def / 252 Spe

Nature jolly (timid)

- Protect

- Flare Blitz / Fire Blast

- Brick Break / Low Kick / Focus Blast

- Night Slash / Hidden Power [Grass / Ice]

Just think how broken that thing would be. I guess the argument against the implementation of such an item is tht it would shit all over the huge power-mons.

I'm kind of excited to see what's gunna happen.

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I didn't think so either. Drawbacks such as confusion (which seems meaningless to those with super hax) and being locked into the move for 2-3 turns makes those moves unique altogether. I do like the inclusion of Hyper Voice, but I wish more Pokemon can learn the move.

I think it is due to the nature of Fire types of offensive raw power that Flare Blitz is a recoil attack, but a medium strength attack would definitely help. Arcanine particularly would like it, because although Flare Blitz KOs nearly anything that doesn't resist it due to Arcanine's power, it is usually overkill and deals so much recoil damage that Arcanine seems very fit to be a suicidal attacker. But Arcanine can be tailored to be bulky, and with access to Morning Sun, it would really appreciate a recoil-less Flame Tail attack or something. Please give Entei Wild Charge and Earthquake please! Electrics get a Giga Drainish attack apparently. I'm not sure if it will help much due to their nature of quick yet fragile, but there are exceptions like Luxray / Ampharos. Also the forgotten type, Ice type, would do better with physical Ice attacks that could be at 120 or just 100 or something, like Stone Edge. Icicle Crash needs larger distribution: Kyurem-B doesn't like going out without a physical Ice attack, though Ice Beam does suit it fine. I'm not sticking Avalanche with a - 3 priority on something like Weavile! Actually, even Rocks did well with just 100 base power Stone Edge, but you would think they'd give them some form of a 100% accurate Rock attack, which seems nonexistent at this point, asides from that Special 70 base power Power Gem. A lot of types are missing medium strength / high power attacks.

Just watch it be Skarmory with Stealth Rocks + Landorus + Moxie Mence + Multiscale Dragonite... actually we'll see if there are Levitating Fairies (and there should be). What about Beedrill or Venomoth or Heracross that aren't Flying types nor possess Levitate but are, well, able to Fly? Oh imagine Gravity. Once you use that, everybody will fall to their deaths! Should entry hazards be banned (both versions of Spikes will have no effect anyways), Skarmory will have so much moveslots freed up, allowing it to do something like Swords Dance + STAB combo. Just think: a defensive tank with offensive capabilities! And Steel Wing would deal with annoying Fairies while having a chance to raise defence (although it's only 10% chance). Only thing stopping it is probably its modest speed (unless you give it Weak Armour). Won't something like Tornadus-T be broken with Regenerator and 121 speed so it can just keep switching out to heal itself and spam Hurricane? Watches Talonflame outclassing Moltres by giving it Close Combat/Brave Bird/Flare Blitz and much better speed, even if Moltres is a special attacker...

Speaking of Hurricane, I'd like a battlefield option where perma-weather could be set, just for fun. Or something unique like rainy battlefield, and every X amount of turns a lightningbolt strikes with very weak power (something like 40 base power or something or dealing a fixed 12.5% damage), striking all Pokemon in the field (though it'd be better if neutral typed or something like Gyarados would be slain instantly and Landorus took nothing from it) as a form of residual damage. Or a volcanic battlefield with meteors flying through every X amount of turns with varying amount of damage/accuracy (since meteors/lava/etc can come in various sizes with various effects such as burn or lowering speed or the likes)... though it sounds a bit complex now that I think about it.

About the attack stone, I'm not so sure if that's a good idea, even though it sounds quite nice, because ever since the introduction of Choice items, we gradually saw the metagame shift into a game where you can basically place 6 Choiced Pokemon and defeat the opposing team out of sheer power, even with the penalty of locking one in. Although it would only work on something that's non-evolved, what about things like Scyther or Rhydon with stats that would actually do something? Wouldn't that kind of break them? Except they now have the versatility of selecting any attacks with NO PENALTY... so it sounds a bit risky there. Zweilous's Outrage would outpower Kyurem-B's :|

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All that's known about Chespin is that it'll be a grass type. From its description we know it has a 'tough shell'. I think we can glean from that description that its going to be quite tankish or used for support roles (should it receive the correct moves) due to the grass population being saturated by defensively orientated Pokemon I fear that without the correct stats and move options it'll face stiff competition from Pokemon like celebii and shaymin and wind up in one of the lesser used tiers.



Fennekin is the fire type starter. Its description doesn't really shed any light on where its strengths will lie, but we can tell from its physique that at least in its earlier stages of its evolution tree it'll favour speed and special attack (given its nimble physique).



The last of the starters is Froakie, the water type. It's description reveals a lot about it, mentioning how it can bounce very high, is fast an powerful and that the bubbles on its back protect it from attacks. To me this says that Froakie is potentially going to be more physically based and potentially learn the move bounce (which would be good for beating grass types) I think Froakie will be the one to watch an may end up with stats akin to infernape, which I dare say the water populace is currently lacking (sans simipour)



Sylveon is the new Eeveelution of this generation, and also one of the first revealed fairy types. We know it learns strong fairy types moves such as Moon Blast (given that moves effect of dropping the opponents special attack we can assume that it'll be a move akin to shadow ball).

As an Eeveelution we know its stats will probably comprise of 130 / 110 / 95 / 65 / 65 / 60. What we don't yet know is in what stats these numbers will align. I am under the impression that Moon Blast is a special attack and that one of the higher figures provided will lie in the special attack stat of Sylveon.

Dependent on how good the coverage of fairy typed attacks are and where resistances etc fall, any combination could to keep it either as a great dragon check or wall. Because of the new typing and people's curiosity I feel it's safe to say that Sylveon will for at least a few months see OU usage.



I dare say that Pancham will probably have an evolution, and its description gives clues as to maybe what sort of Pokemon it will evolve into. The description makes note of it 'Glaring' and trying in vein to 'intimidate'. These characteristics - if they come to fruition - could make for an interesting fighting type. I get the rehashed Mankey feeling from this Pokemon, which would suggest high speed and attack. What will make this Pokemon interesting is that its the currently only known user of parting remake which is essentially U-turn with stay reducing qualities. If intimidate does get bestowed upon its evolution it'll have plenty of opportunities to switch in on - for instance - Terakion's stone edge, lower its attack and with a choice scarf equipped put Terakion in nasty state of affairs, it either stays in and gets its offensive stats crippled or switch out and allow whatever comes in next to be at -1. Fun times. I also think well see an expansion on the VolTurn strategy - The VolTurn Remark!



Talonflame seems to be the pidgeot of this game, and I think game freak is trying to make this one useable! (Along side Staraptor) it's a flying/fire type, which'll make it the first deviation from normal/flying in the starting birds. It's description makes not of kicking with embers, so I feel it's safe to say it may well learn blaze kick, we also know that it knows brave bird. Those two moves have great coverage outside of things like Heatran, so I think that if its speed lives up to its description (though it has Flame Charge to somewhat mitigate it otherwise) we could see a very useable Pokemon. However Pokemon with a crippling 4x weakness to stealth rock rarely see the light of day in the higher tiers, so I dare say that it'll be a powerhouse in the lower tiers to rival the likes of swallow.

Edited by Tbird
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Some remarks about the Pokemon from above...



I'm afraid for this guy. Asides from the fact he looks like Dewott, he does look like he is going the defensive way. Many people speculate this thing will become Grass/Dark. By the looks of it, he does look like he is going to be a defensive Pokemon. Grass types being defensive makes sense. By their nature and how their attacks are, Grass Pokemon can become defensive. But the problem is those weaknesses. Grass/Dark (remember this is just speculation) will bring myriads of weaknesses, including a nasty 4x weakness to Bug, and many common weaknesses such as Fire/Ice/Flying/Fighting... even Poison may become popular offensively if Fairies start coming in (though I doubt it since Steels already exist). For the past few generations, there have been many defensive Grass Pokemon starters, particularly Meganium and Serperior. Venusaur and Torterra were also defensive to some extent. Comparing them, Venusaur skyrocketed in usage due to Chlorophyll, access to Growth, great defensive typing (due to the Poison subtype), and a usable movepool. Torterra was not a bad choice either. It only ended up in the lower tiers because of its 4x Ice weakness and slow speed. But Torterra's typing was not a bad one and is a great offensive and defensive pivot generally, and a movepool that most other Grass Pokemon had to breed to get, such as Leech Seed. Notice that these two Pokemon were defensive and offensive at the same time.

The problems with Meganium and Serperior, I feel, is that they were pure Grass types, and although Meganium's defensive stats were great (80/100/100 is not bad at all), it generally had nothing to offer against all the other defensive Grass types, leaving it stuck in obscurity. Aromatherapy is good, but what it needs is Sleep Powder. It can use Swords Dance, but it generally is not the best for that job. I really hope they do something for that awesome Meganium. Serperior is also that way, as its 75/95/95 defences, while okay, is still not all that great. Its offences are even worse at middling 75/75, though its speed at 113, allowing for some interesting usage of Leech Seed/dual screens/Taunt/Torment/Glare/Dragon Tail usage. Problem with Serperior is, Pokemon like Whimsicott rendered Serperior irrelevant, because no matter how fast your speed is, things with Prankster always get the jump on it. Not to mention Serperior's attack movepool was pitiful, although it could make potential Coil/Growth/Calm Mind sets. Serperior was like a bit of an experiment to see how Sceptile would be if it was leaning towards defence instead of offence. (By the way, Sceptile is a great offensive Pokemon but suffers the same problem Empoleon and Charizard has by having a larger physical than special movepool). It seems Serperior's irrelevance as a defensive Pokemon changes when one realises its Dream World ability is Contrary, allowing Leaf Storm + Dragon Pulse + HP Ice/Fire/Rock combo for excellent sweepage. And it is weird: these defensive Pokemon have to resort to offence to make themselves relevant.

For something that would become Grass/Dark, it would do well to be an offensive Pokemon, or be a hybrid much like Venusaur and Torterra was: be defensive and offensive. Being purely defensive like Meganium or non DW Serperior would bring disaster. What would benefit Chespin would be a build that is semi defensive, like Serperior's, but good enough offences, like Torterra's. Venusaur is only able to succeed due to its DW ability making it all the relevant for Growth spam and utter destruction (and Sleep Powder, which is key to setting up). Chespin will no doubt receive Overgrow as its ability, but if its DW ability turns out to be something scary, perhaps it can be salvageable. Otherwise this thing will not see much usage in the upper tiers, like the majority of the starter Pokemon. Grass/Dark is going to be massacred if it is purely defensive: 'nuff said. I do hope it can be set apart from Shiftry and Cacturne, however.



Fire Pokemon were always the offensive or speedy types of the starters. Well, Emboar wasn't particularly speedy (though it had Flame Charge), but it was still offensive and powerful. I don't expect Fennekin to be any different. It does remind me of Ninetales, except I believe it may gain a Psychic subtype (from the speculations). It will most likely specialise in speed and Special Attack (and outclass Ninetales in terms of stats by miles... fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it). Oh come on, Ninetales will almost always be relevant to the metagame due to its Drought ability. *watches DW ability become Drought for Fennekin* But of course, that's Tyranitar weak or something, but nonetheless, should it draw any inspiration from Ninetales, except similar movepool regarding deceptive moves like Hypnosis or some new moves. What I'm afraid of is the Charizard syndrome (and I don't mean the 4x SR weakness), but the syndrome that Sceptile and even something recent as Empoleon suffered: strong special attack stat, but too much physical movepool and even having access to Swords Dance and not Nasty Plot nor Calm Mind. But should this thing be a Ninetales of some sort, perhaps Calm Mind and Nasty Plot may end up in its roster. I'm not sure. However, I do see this thing being another cool Fire Pokemon to use in the lower tiers, like UU, as a counter to Fairies, should Fire and Psychic types resist Fairy moves as speculated. I cannot say this thing is boring, but I think it is quite predictable and that it will become another nimble "glass cannon" Fire Pokemon. But Gamefreak is always full of surprises: what if this thing becomes the defensive Fire Pokemon? Oh hey remember when Mascargo was last OU? Yeah me neither. :/



Oh boy... this will become Poliwrath's cousin? Another Water/Fighting... hey look another Frog (looks at Politoed). Oh don't worry Politoed, your Drizzle is too important to be discarded *watches Froakie gain Drizzle*. I find it funny Gamefreak gave two of my favourite Pokemon Drought and Drizzle to make them relevant in the upper tier of the metagame, and then they put two of my favourite species of animals as starters for this generation. Personal opinions aside, the general trend for Water types were balanced. So far, Blastoise and Feraligatr are the fastest Water starters at 78, but the other Water types ended up at 60 or 70 afterwards, but their defences and offences were always decent enough to be used. Water Pokemon were always very versatile, and I don't believe Froakie will be an exception. However, starting from last generation, they started denying certain Water Pokemon Ice Beam... on PURPOSE (those not named Magikarp). I don't know if they will continue that trend this generation, but it is possible. Either way, Froakie looks different. Should this guy be the Water/Fighting, it already shows that this thing will be an offensive Pokemon. I will laugh if its speed ends up at either 107 or 109, but I'm afraid as well as such Water Pokemon such as Floatzel or Sharpedo with that type of stat build never did so well in the upper tiers. And I'm still curious as to why, as Infernape didn't have a problem staying at the upper tiers. Keldeo is a legendary with balanced defences (a bit on the low side) and insane Special Attack and Speed, so we can count him out. I'm not sure what to think about Froakie: a Water Pokemon with little defences that isn't named Starmie doesn't do too well. But Water/Fighting STAB is always something nice, but it suffers competition from the likes of Keldeo, who has Secret Sword to destroy Blissey. That is, unless it was physically oriented (though I doubt it due to "bubbles" and stuff). Maybe if Froakie has ways to bypass Jellicent... maybe... :|



Sylveon will be OP and will be the reason why Dragons will stop flooding OU and everyone and their mothers will pack not ONE but TWO Scizors. Species Clause says Hai. In all seriousness, I see Fairies as an excuse to raise the concentration of Steel Pokemon... as if there weren't enough. But no worries: I'm not sure how Sylveon's stats will align, but Gamefreak always finds the biggest reasons to inconvenience the players. Leafeon... its Special Attack was at all time low, for a type that is supposed to be largely special (just imagine that thing being introduced in Gen III!), and only learns special Grass types after Razor Leaf until level 7X it learns Leaf Blade! I imagine them trolling Sylveon the same way by making Moonblast special but making its stats inclined towards physical. That's the reason why I put off getting Glaceon until endgame, where I had the TM for Ice Beam and Frost Breath and Shadow Ball, because I'm not going to go through the whole game with Ice Fang and all these other irrelevant moves! Oh right... the metagame. I just hope it isn't another 130 SpA Eeveelution and further make Glaceon irrelevant. And I still hope Fairies aren't super effective to Ice (last thing I want is a Kyurem and Weavile 4x weak to Fairies). But all I know is with stats like 130/110/95/65/65/60, it is going to impact the Dragons for certain. I'm thinking it will have Flareon-like stats. And gain Flare Blitz. And an ability to get Fire STAB. And still deny Flareon Flare Blitz. But in all seriousness, whether Sylveon and its kins will make or break the metagame, who knows? Only time will tell.



That Parting Mark attack where it's a U-turn that lowers attack... while I was thinking "why lower attack when you can damage when they can just switch out to lower attack"... until I realised the very purpose of U-turn was to see what comes in, should something switch in. Lowering attack by one stage can be dangerous at times, especially by effectively neutering a Choice Banded Pokemon, defeating the whole point of the Choice Band... from, I don't know, Gyarados or Landorus. I have a feeling that move will be on things like Mienshao as well, but Pancham is most likely going to become a large panda with stats akin to Hariyama, and maybe Intimidate (imagine Intimidate + Parting Mark!). Problem is, those Pokemon tend to be slow, which may just suck when the opponent just decides to attack. But again, Gamefreak can surprise me with a Ninja Rocket Boot Panda with speed that blazes above Aerodactyl's, making Parting Mark all the more relevant. But that's all I see for now. Whether it becomes another generic Fighter or has a special niche, we don't know. I wonder if it will become part Grass, as pandas eats shoots and leaves... oh wait, did I do that right? It seems people think about that U-turn that reduces 1 attack stage, but I'm thinking that move can either be bred or be added to other Pokemon. Thinking of Oriental Pokemon (why is this Panda introduced in France??), there is this concept of inner energy, Ki, and stuff. Will it also be mixed and specially inclined like Mienshao? Maybe. But I'm uncertain.



Heh, wow. This is different. A "basic bird" (is it the basic bird?) with a typing that isn't Normal/Flying? What I see in Talonflame, asides from the lazy English name and 4x SR weakness, is a new powerful scorching Fire bird that can finally abuse high attack power and once again, be the recoil monster that Staraptor was. It'll probably have Flare Blitz, Brave Bird, Close Combat/Superpower, Wild Charge (the last two a little hesitant to say)... oh wait. Isn't that Arcanine? Yeah, I'm afraid of its possibility of outclassing the other Pokemon with similar attacks, but I don't see this thing being durable with its defences any time soon. I'm also thinking it may lack Special Attack as well, but Gamefreak can prove me wrong here too. Honchkrow was a similar Pokemon with the right attacks, but what would Talonflame bring? Just another recoil abusing Fire Pokemon? Imagine this thing with Sheer Force + Flare Blitz? Another Darmatian? Though the Flying typing does differentiate it from the others, it still has that 4x weak to Rock, neutrality to Ice, added weakness to Electricity, though the immunity to Ground does compensate. Either way, that wouldn't matter on something already as fragile as this. But if it had bulky stats or something like Braviary's stats (which I hope not), that typing won't help it. It would just be wise to make it a physical rend-and-tear Pokemon like Staraptor, and though it would probably kill anything in UU most easily, I do not know how well it would do in the overused tier with the likes of SR being dominant and the many other reasons Charizard wouldn't do well there. But this thing looks promising, for one, and would probably be another Fairy killer to be, should it be bestowed with the right stats. *stares at Unfezant and its trolled movepool*



It is very beautiful. But so was Butterfree and Beautifly. Unfortunately, neither have much use in this current metagame, being low in stats and dangerously weak to Stealth Rocks (although Butterfree can abuse Compoundeyes + Sleep Powder). It was revealed it learns Struggle Bug, that attack with little competitive value (unless, of course, Struggle Bug has become stronger). Sigh. I'm sure it will learn Quiver Dance and somehow raise its value, and if it turns out all right like Venomoth, I'd be quite happy. I'd be quite happier if Masquerain had a Bug/Water cousin with Levitate, but what do I know? It will most likely learn Psychic moves, Bug Buzz, perhaps Air Slash, etc... maybe something akin to Mothim, but generally the same as its other Level 10 bug cousins. I will still use it because I love how fabulous it looks! Unfortunately, like most of these beautiful bugs, it looks like an early Lv. 10 Butterfree used Confusion to destroy 1st gym leader kind of thing (though I think that 1st gym leader will most likely use this Pokemon)... so I cannot see it get past NU, though surprises like Venomoth (who lacks that 'auspicious' Flying type) does eventually come. Oh and Volcarona... but that's because that's Apollo or Helios or 金日成/김일성 (Kim Il Sung) in Pokemon form. -__-



Um, why is this guy's primary typing Flying? That just makes this very confusing. Oh whatever... it is not like that it matters. Anyways, it came at the wrong time, where Fairies will become rampant! *shudders* Though in all honesty, we don't know how popular Fairies will become. However, one can assume by this Noise Wyvern thing's design and nomenclature, it will have noise based attacks. Also, there is one thing different. By being primarily Flying with Dragon type attached to it, this may also mean this thing may have evolved from something that was just pure Flying (that isn't Trololos #1), so unlike the past Dragon/Flyings, where they had a Flying type tacked to it with little Flying attacks put on it, maybe this one will have more specialisation towards Flying attacks and random Dragon moves like Dragon Pulse (I can see it using Dragon Pulse). Perhaps it will be specially inclined. Please don't tell me this is the SPECIAL version of HAXORUS. I'm willing to bet it's a little more defensive than your usual Pokemon, but I cannot be so sure of that either. It will most likely learn Hyper Voice (which things like Rayquaza and Hydreigon also learn), but this new attack Boomburst intrigues me. Will it be a new special Flying attack? That would be interesting actually. I'd hope it can fill in that much needed gap between Air Slash and Hurricane, and perhaps even the legendary birds of Kanto or something can use it. It also looks like it can learn Claw attacks (particularly Dragon Claw or Night Slash), or Hone Claws. This thing is quite a mystery to me. I don't like the fact he's primary Flying because it breaks old traditions, but unfortunately, things like that do die out... just like all things do.

Edited by wraith89
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Lorshy is here with his stellar analytics. They are totally flawless and such.


Chespin is a hedgehog with some armour thing going on, so it's defensive is likely to be quite high. Hedgehogs aren't renowned for their speed, so I'm not assuming this will be a fast critter either. I at one point thought he may be grass/rock, which wouldn't be allthat great, and we've already got cradiy. Something tells me that Chespin may have more attack than Torterra. I picture large sharp claws and spikes... Maybe it'll learn swords dance? While it could be defensive, I'm assuming it will disobey tradition (to Wraith's disdain) and be a slower attacker, which I cannot say is all that great anyway. If it is slow and grass/dark, a myriad of weaknesses will do nothing, and that type has already been tried and it is rather ineffective. However, another sourc eclaims it is actually grass/fighting, which if true would greater diminish counter-ability within the starters. If it were Grass/Fighting, that would probably be more effective, and in my opinion make more sense.

Considering it knws roll-out, it may learn some other rock type moves which will be decent for coverages sake. Maybe rollout will get a buff this gen, like how bullet seed and the like did? Maybe a pokemon will have such an ability? Anyway... This is competitive, I'm not focused...

Bottom line, all of the options sadly point Chespin being UU or less with Overgrow. Grass has never been the top of the chain and I don't think any stat distribution would do it major justice. I'm thinking it may be a little bit like Sandslash where it has alright HP, good attack and good defence, but meh other stats. Perhaps it could learn sucker punch, which would make it an intriguing pokemon provided it sets up with leech seed and other moves. It's special attack may not be anything special, but who knows. Grass/Fighting makes more sense with the hedgehog get-up (or its it an armadillo? doubt it). Either way, not top of the chain, unless it becomes a great supporter with a myriad of dark sabotage and grass leeching. Maybe it'll get a unique move?

I'll think of more later when I am not tired.

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Boomburst is what? Normal?? Oh boy... while Normal has nice neutral coverage, its lack of STAB and its boringness like Hyper Voice is just annoying. Oh well... I'm still thinking this thing will have mostly Flying moves along with random Dragon Pulse and Heat Wave (widely distributed to random fliers)

Actually, I just remembered the 3 Sinnoh starters had the same issue: Torterra's two typing had advantage against BOTH of Empoleon's (though Empoleon learned Ice Beam to mitigate that, but not naturally, mind you), and Infernape just destroyed both -__-. They might just do that to be a total troll once more, but I don't want a Water/Dark. We already have Crawdaunt and Sharpedo (though we also have Shiftry and Cacturne as well) :/

If it is Grass/Fighting, then it faces stiff competition from Breloom (who hits like a lorry on steroids and has access to Spore) or Virizion (who is versatile as special and physical attack, speedy, specially tanky). However, a lower tiered Grass/Fighting would be nice. I'm very certain it will learn Swords Dance: almost EVERY Grass Pokemon does.

Also, inb4 all starters are Grass/Fighting, Fire/Fighting, Water/Fighting :|

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Hey, hey, Lorshy!

See, the starters this time round do have my interest piqued. I actually like the look of them! Which hasn't really happened for me since Johto and to an extent Sinnoh. I don't want another defensive grass though, Chespin - as stated - will just got lost in obscurity otherwise. In every tier so far we've got solid defensive Grassers that have very specialised niches (celebi, Ferrothorn; Roserade; Amoongus and Tangela. Not to mention new additions)

I feel that the other two both show traits that could lend themselves to added psychic types, the big eyes of the frog has that all seeing sort of thing and the fox just looks sort of mysterious, another water psychic would annoy me however fire and psychic has great neutral STAB coverage and in the lower tiers super effective coverage. If its a speedy, or even marginally fast (think 95+) it'll be a great answer for things like the Nidos, the myriad of fighters and Pokemon like Amoongus.

Wraithy, baby I like your thoughts on Pancham. Trust me to completely fail to notice the obvious (the panda thing.) now that can go two different ways, either the kick ass Kung Fu Panda route, or the very mean panda aggressive bear thing. If it goes the slapstick panda route I think we'll see a lot of speed and a rehashed Primeape. Otherwise I'm changing my verdict and putting it more on the high atk and hp sort of Pokemon with great tanking abilities due to intimidate. If the latter's the case I think we'll see some cool sets come out of it, think substitute, glare, some phasing attack + Stab, or maybe some sort of Scarf set reminiscent of ScarfTar. You know? Just fast enough and powerful enough to remove the top tier threats (of its respective tier) plus parting remark to screw up physical attackers. Never mind your fairy types this is the guy I'm excited for.

Pretty bug will probably just be pretty bug that no one uses :(.

Noivern could be awesome. I agree and think it'll be specially inclined, hopefully not to the extent of Haxorus. It'll probably give Hydreigon a run for its money. When you think of the moves that flyers generally get, brave bird / hurricane, along side dragon types, Outrage / Draco meteor, and also coverage moves that both typing a tend to get, Heat Wave / Aqua Tail etc, I think we'll see an offensive power house that'll just kill folk left right and centre (could potentially run like MixMence) If it doesn't get some sort of fire typed attack, though, I think Noivern is going to be screwed.

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Just looking over the confirmed moves for the starters and it may shed some light on what the final forms might have.

Fennekin definitely learns psychic so I'm assuming that'll be the secondary typing. Though yes there are Pokemon, like typhlosion that learn extra sensory and remain pure fire the recurring theme with starters is a couple moves learnt that can be used later on. Think chimchar with its fighting type moves, prinplup getting metal claw, Mudkip with mud slap, etc.

a psychic fire typing has pretty good offensive capabilities and vast neutral coverage, which is good. Check my post above with my thoughts on it to see my predictions.

Chespin, like Lorshy stated, does get Roll Out, so we can assume maybe a secondary rock typing which would be cool. However I dare say unless there's a good speed attached (which does go against the grain for your stereotypical rock type) I fear it'll just play out much like Torterra just with a potentially crippling fighting weakness.

The odd ball here is Froakie, who gets bounce. Now this doesn't really reveal much as its a frog, it shoul get bounce regardless of typing, much like Torchic with peck. But with the previous train of thought the assumption could be made that'll it'll have a secondary flying type. Which could be cool. Assuming the aforementioned is all correct it could also have a secondary fighting type so's that we have a psychic / fighting / rock triangle of power. However with Froakie this is all based on theory within a theory. I think h may be the one to watch.

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Typhlosion getting Extrasensory was just some random hereditary move that really makes little sense to learn naturally. But I think Fennekin makes sense to become some Psychic Pokemon, as foxes are generally cunning, deceptive, and are more intuitive than physical. It makes one wonder why Ninetales is pure Fire, but its movepool suggests the inner ability type of Pokemon anyways. I guess we'll be making more Victini-typed Pokemon then. Fennekin, although cool, just seems boring as a concept. A speedy, offensive Fire Pokemon: it's used almost every time. Well, Emboar is the only one that doesn't go for the speedy type, but still... unless they surprise us with a bulky Fire type with a myriad of support options. I wouldn't be against that actually, except Fire makes a poor defensive typing and makes a great offensive typing.

Chespin getting Rollout making it a Rock type makes as much sense as Quilava having Rollout makes it a Rock type, although a hard shell does suggest it may go that direction. However, being a Rock type would be interesting, as there is only one other notable Rock/Grass Pokemon I can think of (Cradily), which with its great defences and rather peculiar typing allows it to be quite a force to be reckoned with. Unfortunately, that's all it had for it, as in OU, it would fall prey to the many Fighting attacks and stray Ice Beams and Bullet Punches. Not to mention its neutrality to Water and Ground, so in reality the typing may actually be detrimental than beneficial. Oh and U-turn weakness. I don't know how Cradily managed to be annoying though... I guess it is because of its random typing people tend to forget how to deal with it. But if its stats are less than stellar (they usually do not go extremes with the starters and tend to make them more "balanced"), don't expect Chespin to make much impact. I still think it'd be cool if for the first time, a Dark Pokemon comes from the starter lines.

A lot of random things do get Bounce, and its only appropriate a froggy would get Bounce. From its design, it looks like the agile and power striking Pokemon. God forbid we get another Water/Flying, though that would be cool with some flying lizard-like Pokemon much like Charizard. However, we already have things like Gyarados, though it doesn't strike me as Flying. The froggy looks like it will go the offensive way, but I don't see it getting defence unlike its previous Water type starter predecessors. The previous ones were generally lacking speed, but were balanced in almost every other aspects. They had the defences and offences to be tailored to whatever they would like to become. It looks like Froakie may be the first to deviate from the norms and may go for some form of an extreme. That's what I see at least, but they can always say "lol nope Seismitoad" and decide to make him some big bulky frog and end that way. Also, this frog doesn't have tadpole form, while another certain tadpole line ends up as a tadpole in the end. :|:|:|:|:|

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Monorpale [FR]


This guy is the newest reveal for the upcoming games. The first and foremost interesting thing is his typing. Ghost/ Steel is a typing that has been theorymoned for as long as the game has been competitive. What this means is that he sports on a weakness to fire and ground types, and if levitate is thrown into the mix (which by the looks of things it won't) then the latter weakness is mitigated. Invulnerability to toxic spikes and poison in general, as well as reduced damage from SR means that entry hazards are not a worry for this guy. Great resistances to the common dragon, ice, rock and flying typed moves bolstered by complete immunity to fighting and normal typed moves means this guy is not going to worry at all about switching in.

As a ghost type we can all but assume that he'll get pain split and will I wisp to further help with tanking/ walling and generally disrupting the opponent, all of which could potentially make him a hard guy to take down.

As far as offensive capabilities go, that same typing doesn't necessarily lend itself to going on the offence, while it is neutrally quite good the super effective coverage isn't great at all. But, for what it does have coverage over it could be potentially game breaking. For instance STAB flash cannon is going to do a hefty amount of damage to both Terrakion and Tyranitar (so long as it gets decent investment in special attack). On the physical side we have gyro ball, potentially - though a long shot - meteor mash and iron head. Given that its a sword I dare say sword dance will probably be a given, also. As for its ghost typing STAB shadow sneak backed by sword dance would be a lovely little treat, allowing it to come in rapid spin or ice beam off of Starmie and instantly threaten it on its weaker defence.

I could carry on writing but... Time kills, folks.

Last thought to ponder is whether or not it'll turn out to be a bad Spiritomb.

Edited by Tbird
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Very interesting!! I wonder what it's story will be - or Pokedex, eh.

I don't know if it look like it'll be that potent though - it probably will have attack, but that's all I can gather. Maybe it'll learn a steel type move like Night Slash, etc, and have an ability that'll boost the power of "slashy slash" moves? That would actually be cool. Or it'll have cursed body - or it'll have an ability that will boost attack. I just think of this thing as a glass cannon - I highly doubt it'll be defensive. It may learn a lot of ghostly moves, but I doubt it'll be supportive. But we'll see.

I find it very interesting, but I hope it doesn't suffer the same fate as Banette and other unfortunate ghosts.

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I see what you mean, but with those sorts of resistances and immunities it shouldn't have a hard time switching in regardless. Think Gen IV Lucario?

Mewtwo-Ex raised a fine bit of speculatory genius in the speculation thread that thy could be version exclusives and one could be shield. If that's the case I can imagine a sort of Ramporados and Bastiodon sort of thing going on. In either case the typing will be greatly appreciated for switching in or general tanking capabilities. That typing alone can take on Scizor, Tyranitar, Terrakion, CB/CS dragons... All sorts.

I like the idea of an iron fist of sorts for the slashy moves, gallade for instance will have a hell of a time using Psycho Cut / Close combat/ Night Slash ... Leaf Blade, or something anyway. Say they get a 20% increase (such as I believe iron fist currently is) STAB Slash attacks become 119 BP with a critical chance. That's crazy good!

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So they finally made a Sword Pokemon. And it's Ghost/Steel of all things. Hm, this will suffer weakness to Fire and Ground, which is appropriate, I think. As for its STAB, Ghost is great against Psychics and other Ghosts while its Steel typing helps it defensively, giving it neutrality to the Ghost and Dark attacks it would normally hate and resisting a lot of other types, with 4x resistance to Bug and an immunity to Poison. I'm of the belief its stats will be lopsided, something akin to Rampardos with high attack but probably not enough anything else. It will most likely to be a physical attacker, and I don't really see it as a special attacker, unless Gamefreak proves me wrong. Slashing moves and Swords Dance are probably standard on this guy, but it will probably have strange Ghost attacks like Curse or Spite. Will-o-Wisp is standard on all Ghosts except Froslass (because Gamefreak hates Ice Pokemon), so we might see some of that. I hope it gets a stronger physical Ghost attack than Shadow Claw. It will probably get Shadow Sneak, but I don't see it getting Shadow Punch or Bullet Punch since it has no fists... unless it creates ghostly hands or stuff. It will probably get "Metal Claw" or some new metal attacks that are lacking currently due to this guy's physiology. I wonder if some elemental blade attacks would be created: that would be pretty awesome. However, that's kind of stretching things, though it would help many Pokemon out.

I'm not sure how it would be a bad Spiritomb. Yes, Spiritomb has Pressure and no weakness, but that's about it. This Ghost/Steel is immune to Toxic and has more resistances, which is key here. Its two weaknesses are common indeed, but everything needs a weakness. Unless, of course, their role overlaps somehow, but if that should happen, this new Sword Pokemon's typing alone helps differentiate it... somehow. Unfortunately, that may render Spiritomb irrelevant. Oh yeah, Fairies. If Dark is weak to Fairy... then Spiritomb gets a weakness. Unless, of course, Ghost resists Fairy (please do!).

If there is such thing as a Shield counterpart, now I'm afraid for it... because defensive Pokemon just don't seem to work anymore. Especially Ghosts. The trend for Ghost Pokemon is that they are low on life, so they either have very little HP (look at Dusknoir and Spiritomb) or the ones with exceptionally high HP (Drifblim) has low defences. I imagine such a counterpart to be an avid user of Will-o-Wisp or Toxic stalling, but may be granted Counter/Mirror Coat/Metal Burst as indirect forms of attack, and I believe much like Shuckle or Bastiodon, its stats will be lopsided to provide more defence than attack, if it has any visible form of attack (most likely specially inclined). Watches this thing be a rip off of the Millennium Shield. Those two also have low HP to balance out their high defence, but I don't like it when things have low HP: it makes them easier to destroy. This is assuming this exists.

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CONFIRMED: Honeedge has the ability NO GUARD. What do you guys think?

New Pokemon:


Karamanero - Dark/Psychic (evolution)

This is a very bizarre specimen bearing the Dark/Psychic type. It has the ability Suction Cups/Contrary. Suction cups would make it a useful supporter (it has Hypnosis), and not too many Pokemon have Suction Cups. Defensively, I don't see this thing being too durable, because it looks squishy. It may be focused around special attacks and defence, giving it a contrast in comparison with Octillery and Cradily. It's type may be seen as a draw back, as it loses the resistance to fighting, dark, and ghost, and becomes 4X weak to bug. However that may be just one of it's few weaknesses, if not it's only weakness. It does have an immunity to Psychic, which could come in handy for Pokemon that need a fighting type companion. Contrary could also make it good to switch in on things like intimidate as well. I don't see too much use for it yet, so although Contrary looks cool, it may not be as useful as Contrary.It does have a new move called "Turn Over" which reverses stat changes. Wonder how that would work? Maybe it could act as a baton passer of sorts with this move, or maybe there will be a move that passes on stat bonuses in one fell sweep (setting up your opponent for disaster too could be neat, like using a move like Iron Defence, but then using this, then passing it onto the enemy), but that's unlikely. If it could learn taunt, it could become an effective stall/wallbreaker, crippling walls with sabotage. It doesn't look like a sweeper of any kind, chances are it will be great on teasing and crippling the foe. It would be effective on teams that would have an issue with teams that have issue with enemies setting up traps or making them powerful.


Now this is a Dark/Fighting I would use! It look really boss, and it's colours don't make it too obvious what type it is. But there's more than just good looks and dark/fighting type. It has the ability Iron Fist (AWESOME!) and can learn Hammer Arm. It definitely looks on the bulkier side, so we can expect it not to be utterly frail, coupled with some almighty attack. Chances are its attack rating will be quite high, differentiating it from Scrafty who has lower power. Hopefully, it can learn the elemental punches, along with drain punch and the like. I don't think, though, that it's dark typing will be of much use other than having a lot of nice resistances and only one weakness. I think that if it can learn bulk-up, it probably will be able to go fight in any tier, although seeing the other fates of the bears I'm not expecting it to be OU due to speed and potential lack of coverage.

However, I am expecting a really high attack stat. Like, sky-rocketing high. Beartic should have had base 130 attack. IT'S A FRIGGING BEAR. Speaking of which, why isn't it a water type? Ugh. Poor Beartic. Could've been so much more. Anyway, I do think this guy should have focus punch, unless it's too aggressive and impatient. If it could, and if it's attack stat was any higher than 115 (as it should, bears are monstrously strong), this guy might just be one of the best sub-punchers around. Throw in some coverage moves to be expected, like Earthquake and Rock Slide, and it'll have great coverage. But what's that? Ghost types? Well, caught behind a substitute he won't have to worry about being burned, and come to think of it, it's likely he'll have Crunch. If it has high attack, like very high, this guy would be real dangerous. As I'm saying this, I wouldn't be surprised if it did become OU because it would have one of the more predictable (sub-punch) set, but it would likely be just too whopping powerful that it would be really good on a lot of those pesky steels. I think I'd advise this guy to be next to fairies, to get rid of the steel types that could block dragons. He could also be good on Honedge, because he resists Ghost due to his dark typing. So, from these assumptions, I see no reason he wouldn't be a force to be reckoned with.



This thing will be a devastating tank, along the lines of Reuniclus. It can learn Drain Kiss to sap up health, and then it can learn a new move called Devour, which is an instant KO against anything that's inanimate.

That last bit was a lie... But it can learn Drain Kiss, which is like Giga Drain I guess...

But seriously.


Edited by Lorshinator
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Well the bear's got unresisted STAB. That's fantastic. If his speeds anything above 60 he'll be able to pull of the old ScarTar set pretty well, but, with close combat instead of stone edge. Maybe he'll get that, too! The thing that has doomed the bear is typing an lack of moves, this guy has (potentially!) both. Crunch/Pursuit / Close Combat / Parting Remark / Ice/Fire Punch is all that I ask.

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That squid........... I know I've seen that concept someplace. I know I have. I don't know what it is but I am of the belief it is a concept used elsewhere as well. Dark/Psychic typing... that thing, judging by aesthetics, typing, and abilities, looks more like a utility based Pokemon. We'll probably see things like Magic Coat or Mirror Coat on that, along with Hypnosis, Taunt, Torment, and other teasing moves. Like Eelektross, it'll probably be another Water Pokemon without the ubiqitous Water typing. 4x weakness to Bug is damaging, but it may be its only weakness (we don't know what Fairy will be good against except Dragon). But Contrary? Come on... I hope it doesn't get something akin to Draco Meteor or Psycho Boost. They always do this: taking unique or fairly exclusive abilities and putting them on new Pokemon and making it a commonplace. It scares me, but it was bound to happen. The swapping thing is almost like Heart Swap/Guard Swap/Power Swap type of moves, except this time, it has the possibility of Contrary, so it is able to mess things up. Perhaps lower enemy stats and then switch and actually gain the stats you wanted to? Eh too much effort. However, Suction Cups is interesting, allowing it to never be phased and like Octillery it can receive stats from a Baton Pass chain or something, except this guy looks like it can actually use actual stat boosting moves that isn't Charge Beam or something. Psychic/Dark STAB is horrible vs Darks and Steels, but it may learn Focus Blast to mitigate that. I can't wait to see what it gets though: it looks interesting.

Looks like the blade has No Guard, which was expected, because it's a Sword. I didn't expect anything less.

Huh so Panda grew up to be ferocious. It's STAB is unresisted by all except Heracross and Toxicroak....... both of which would probably decimate it. Assuming of course they are anything common. And Fairies... what if they resist both? Eh I'm unsure. But Panda looks like it will rip and tear things apart. With that Leaf in its mouth, I won't be surprised if some random Grass physical attack ends up in its movepool. Panda looks like it will be a more immediate threat than Scrafty, as Scrafty depends on setting up to defeat its foes (which makes it nearly nigh unstoppable).

Also Lorshy just wait: your Beartic will be even more useless with weakness to Fairy. (I'm hoping that's not true, but it's still a possibility: there is high speculation that Fairies have some relationship with Ice. Ice should resist Fairy and Fairy be weak to Ice). :S

New fairies... interesting. That thing reminds me of Whimsicott. God forbid that gains a Fairy type, though it looks like those mischievous fairy from folklore. This puffball and a bird... version exclusives. And I knew that Clauncher and Skrelp were version exclusives!

Like most people speculated, Yvetal is Dark/Flying, while Xerneas ends up Fairy type. Hmm... I'm sure there is a relation between Dark and Fairy. I'm sure there is.

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  • 1 month later...

Thought of finally adding additions... Yeah.



For quick ref, I will write down first what we know it has and what I hope it has:

Ability: Unknown (Pre-Evolution has Sap Sipper, which may carry onwards to Gogoat but it hasn't been confirmed)

Type: Pure Grass

Moves: Leaf Blade, Horn Leech, Rock Slide, Double Edge

Speculated Learnset: Head Smash (may be from level up or breeding), Zen Headbutt, Megahorn (via level)

Gogoat is one of my favourites from the upcoming games, but I'm worried it will plunge into the abyss is NU (which is fine for me, I'll be able to use it anywhere). I am also concerned it will just be an inferior Sawsbuck, losing the normal type immunity to ghost and lack of Double-Edge/Return STAB. But there are few things to take note of.

1) It's pre-evolution has Sap-Sipper, which is neat. I mean, Sawsbuck has this ability too, but it's just nice to know it has it.

2) It has access to Leaf Blade and Horn Leech, allowing for more freedom of choice.

3) It has a cooler design IMO.

Note: I make the error of thinking Sap Sipper heals the Pokemon. It raises attack. With this in mind it could have less attack, but I'm still assuming it will be stronger than Sawsbuck, primarily because I want it to.

But how will it play out? Sawsbuck is placed in NU/RU range, but it's not particularly weak. Access to Horn Leech, Return Stab, Chlorophyll and Hi Jump Kick give it pretty good offensive prowess and coverage. Gogoat does not look like it will get Chlorophyll at this rate, but things can turn out unexpectedly.

Here are some thoughts though.

Gogoat is a ram. And by my uneducated logic on the matter, ramming into things with a rock-iron skull would be brutally painful. This may mean it will have access to some move which acts like a ramming attack - and, hopefully, Head Smash. Think about this for a second, and realize it makes sense. Yes, GameFreak loves to troll logic and say no to certain things happening, but if Gogoat should make itself stand out in any way, it should learn Head Smash. While Head Smash was once Rampardo's signature move, it was passed on and become a rarity instead of an exclusive. I can really see Gogoat learning this move. As damaging as it is to the user, the benefits are indeed potent. Having access to a brutally powerful Rock Type Move gives it coverage on types that it may be afraid of, such as Fire and Flying. I also see this thing learning Megahorn (stares at massive horns), giving it further coverage against it's own Type and Psychic and dark types. Finally, let's put in some extra spice with it's STAB moves, which complement it rather well. Steel types will pose a threat if it doesn't learn any ground or fighting type moves. I don't see it learning Hi Jump Kick (as I was amazed to see Sawsbuck learn it, to be honest), but it could. Who knows. If it could, it would have extraordinary coverage with it's attacks alone. But who knows. They could easily pull a Beartic and Entei and give it moves which make no sense. It can learn Rock Slide at the very least.

how about it's stats? Well, due to my flawless logic I personally see this guy as having higher attack than Sawsbuck, ranging from 105-125. I think I remember watching a nature show and hearing that a particular Ram's horns can easily break bones or worse. Don't mess with them. Nuff said. Considering that you can ride Gogoat, I highly doubt it's base speed will be all that poor. 90-100 tops. I don't see it being super fast, and if it were given very high 125 attack with 105 speed that would almost be unnecessary for a Pokemon like this, and if it were to actually gain the above moves I mentioned.

Coupled with Sap Sipper, Gogoat would be an excellent switch in to various grass types which see themselves as very limited. If it did have a moveset possible consisting of Leaf Blade/Horn Leech, Head Smash, Mega Horn, and... let's just leave it at filler for now, since I doubt it'll learn Hi Jump Kick or Earthquake, it would be a predictable yet dangerous scarf or choice band user. This thing doesn't look that frail either... I'm thinking of 80+ for health and physical bulk, maybe even in the 90s range. However, I am not expecting it's special stats to be high and it could be a potential weakness.

if a team has enough mons to cripple steel types like fire types, Gogoat would be a great scarfer or revenge killer. Or, maybe it could serve as a wallbreaker, if it has high enough attack and has access to those moves. I don't see why it would learn Swords Dance (despite learning Leaf Blade), but if it could, that would make it even more dangerous. Gogoat would be an incredibly threatening Grass Type. If it did get access to all of the things I mention, I don't see why it would struggle to be above RU, since water types run amok above. Hey, maybe it could even learn Zed Headbutt? I could see it learning a lot of things involving it's head. Yes, it would seem obviously good, but so long as it doesn't have 130 attack we're safe. I barely see it reaching 120, but that's entirely possible. JUST BE HIGHER THAN 100.

I believe it could play like Tauros, but with Head Smash or Stone Edge, as well as access to Mega Horn. It could also be reasonably bulky to boot, allowing it to take a hit. It's grass typing, while fragile to many dangerous elements, also gives it handy switch ins to ground and grass. In fact, Head Smash would almost work perfectly with a life orb set and high speed (should it have access to both), for Horn Leech and Sap Sipper would compliment it perfectly.

Weaknesses? Well, having access to only Physical moves is an issue, and being a one-dimensional attacker period is never good because of burns. Aside from Stabs it may not be blessed with a logical moveset, and may need to rely on the weaksauce Rock Slide or Return for filler. I hope it doesn't turn out this way for the above moves I mentioned make too much sense for it to have access too. It may be all it's limited too though, and aside from it's stab choices the rest of it's moves have accuracy problems. Coupled that with the new friendship bonuses of critical hits and evasion, that might be bothersome... Unless it means nothing in competitive play, or is not as serious as I think it is. With Sap Sipper it becomes IMMUNE to status like Spore and Sleep Powder, making it slightly harder to set up on! Awesome!

It will serve as a one Dimensional attacker for sure - but if it gets access to good stats with like 80/120/95/50/60/100, which is still a pretty high BST overall, it would really dish out the hurt with choice scarf/band and life orb sets. But if it's bulk is higher it could be a powerful and reasonably fast grass type. If you have problems with grass types, Gogoat may be the one to turn to if Game Freak blesses it.

Hopeful Moves: Head Smash, Zen Headbutt, Mega Horn, Bulldoze (I don't see it having Earthquake at all), Superpower.




Yes, I'm doing Swirlix again.

Swirlix to me seems like a fascinating specimen. What we can gather from this Pokemon is that it is a Fairy type, and we are still uncertain how it will pan out in the game (as the rumour may stand untrue if Fairy Wind has 60 power, as it didn't OHKO Hydreigon). But there are still some interesting things to consider.


Type: fairy

Ability: Sweet Veil, which gives an immunity to sleep to all teammates in double or triple battles (unspecific in single battles though)

Moves: Draining Kiss (which acts as a Giga Drain esque move, but it is not confirmed whether it is physical or not)

Swirlix eats a lot. Nice sweet things to be exact. If anything eats a lot it must be quite fat, and therefore, quite durable. Judging from this things looks it may boast tons of HP but modest defences... But still durable enough to take hits.

Both Swirlix and Spritzee are interesting specimens. Fairy types are effective on dragon types, making some believe that they are dangerous offensively. But most of the Fairy types released are actually defensive focused, possibly. I am going to believe that Swirlix has lots of HP and decent enough defences, unless when it evolves (if it does, anyway), it has hard candy attached to it functioning as armour. It may have decent enough attack, as I'm assuming Draining Kiss acts as a physical move.

Although not much can be said for Swirlix at the present time, it could act as a durable wall and defensive pivot. It may not have much use in single battles but it will certainly have a niche for double or triple battles against uber spammers like Darkrai. It will also serve as a counter to Pokemon with spore or sleep powder due to it's ability (though, again, it is uncertain if it has an effect in single battles). Draining Kiss also gives it some damage output and recovery, albeit it may be rather weak. Assuming that Fairies are resistant or immune to Dragons, and I will also assume that this thing is not very powerful offensively but it will be catered towards defence.

Unless it grows huge arms or a massive body meant for gobbling up entire shops of food, then that will become quite dangerous.

For competitive value it may seem inferior utility wise to Spritzee, which packs Aromatherapy. Both pokemon are meant for Double battles or more with their abilities. I highly doubt neither will work well on their own, and may require additional team support for damage output.

I have just realized now I have little to say. When the Type Chart is revealed in September a more thorough analysis can be made.



Type: Fairy

Ability: Healer

Known Moves; Draining Kiss, Aromatherapy

Exclusive to Y.

Spritzee weirded me out at first. It's a weird bird thing without the flying type. But it has some interesting quirks.

It possesses the new Fairy type, which we will have to see how it unfolds and how well it fares. I'm assuming that this thing will be a cleric of sorts. Whereas Swirlix looks like it'll grow to have good natural bulk, Spritzee may be above average in speed and possess healing abilities for the team.

I think it would be interesting to have something with decent special stats and high speed to act as a cleric. Like, a really fast medic. Normally clerics are on the slower side and are a little bulkier (Espeon doesn't count or something, whatever I mean)

Unlike Swirlix I don't see it taking too, too many hits. I would be very surprised if it turned out to be offensive.

Here's a piece of information though that's interesting:

Dex Entry: It emits a unique fragrance from its body, and any who smell it fall under its spell.

Does this mean that it will know moves like Hypnosis or other Psychic type moves? Or will there be other scent-related moves that will play a role in it's sets? Or will it gain a Flying or Psychic type addition upon evolution, provided it does evolve?

I understand this page isn't meant for just dwelling on what it might be but how it may play out competitively. I just thought of some of these things and thought of sharing.




Type: Electric/Fairy

Ability: Pick-up (useless) and Cheek Pouch.

Moves: Typical electric moves, also a new move called Nuzzle

Here we have yet another Pikachu clone. While it's adorable, I will admit it does look a little too similar to Raichu, just smaller and fatter. It hasn't been confirmed if it'll get an evolution. But what we do know is it gets a cool new ability and a new move called Nuzzle, as well as an additional fairy type.

If this thing suffers the same fate as Emolga, which has a cool type but poor stats and doesn't evolve, that'll be a shame.

But there are a few interesting quirks, of course. The new ability it has, Cheek Pouches, acts as a healing ability. Once the user consumes a berry, likely of any type, HP is also restored slightly. This ability is also given to Bunnelby, a new Rabbit Pokemon. If this could stack with a Sitrus Berry, it would be incredibly effective. If Recycle is a move it could learn, a bulky set could even be made. Due to this things chubbiness, I see it boasting slightly more bulk than it's counterparts.

What's also worth noting is it's new move called Nuzzle. The specifics haven't been totally identified, and it hasn't been said whether or not the move is exclusive to Dedenne, but official sources say that "While Nuzzle may look cute, it does damage while paralyzing the target!"

So will this act as a Status inflicting move that also deals damage? If so, there are a few things to make note of. This move may be less accurate than Thunder Wave to balance things out. Furthermore, the damage may be minimal, but it will still be helpful as dealing damage to your foe never hurts. It is probably like a miniature Zap Cannon - except this one is weak but likely more accurate. This would be excellent for a status-inducing bulky electric type, of which there are so few.

Furthermore, it gains the new typing of a Fairy. This... I don't know how to feel about. Compared to all other fairies which are pink or at least more majestic, this thing doesn't boast any of those traits aside from cuteness. but alas. Furthermore, it is hard to comment on how it'll play out, considering we don't know for sure whether Fairy will be weak to Steel and Poison (looks at brief video showing Hydreigon NOT being OHKOed by Gardevoir's attack). We also don't know what it will resist. But we do know it'll be effective on dragons.

if Dedenne evolves, it may actually see some use for it's adorable nature, and more importantly, some bulk, which is rare across electric types. being Fairy type, and seeing how a lot of fairies that have been released as of now are defensive looking, Dedenne may boast a lot of restorative moves beneficial to the team. It's move Nuzzle will be effective for teams that are slow and require some support, and doing some damage in the mean-time never hurts for getting that KO. It's ability Cheek Pouches will come in handy, and may give it variety with creating certain sets. Offensive sets are possible with Lum Berries and Salac Berries., and the like. Like Pikachu, it may learn a lot of moves such as Nasty Plot.

For instance, Dedenne could be useful on teams struggling with speed. It may be a beneficial member to Pokemon like Rampardos, who have low speed.

Dedenne may be a very gimmicky Pokemon, which are present throughout the genre. It may not have much competitive value, but these are certainly things to note. If it evolves, which is unlikely actually considering that most of them don't, it'll probably enter the doldrums of NU, where it'll happily spread status and look adorable while doing so.




Type: Flying/Dragon (Oddly in that order)

Ability: Currently not known

Moves: Dragon Pulse, Boom Burst*

*Boom burst is a normal type surf/Earthquake like attack that hits all Pokemon at once with lots of power. It is unknown whether it will be special or physical, but judging from it's design and knowing Dragon Pulse it is likely a special attack.

Yes people, Noivern is not your Sound Type, despite being glaringly obvious that it has sound like qualities. Anyway, Noivern is interesting. It's type seems like a let-down, since it's been done many times before, but Noivern holds some promise.

If this is the Psuedo Dragon of Gen 6 along the lines of Garchomp, Noivern has a lot to live up to. Many are assuming that Noivern is a special attacker, which is possible. It doesn't look it has nearly as much bulk as the other dragons in all categories, and may be the most fragile of all the dragons with a 600 BST. But I can easily be proven wrong. What I think may be Noivern's key trait is speed above all else, at least in comparison to other Dragons. I'm assuming it's base speed will meet 105 or higher, and its' special attack will also be along the 120+ range. It will probably have a lot of similarities to Hydreigon as it will share the special attacking priority, but it may lose out on the amazing coverage that Hydreigon has.

Noivern will probably be used on life orb or choice specs sets, given it will probably have high speed. Given a set of Draco Meteor/Flamethrower/Boom Burst for novelty's sake and maybe some other filler.

But despite what people think, I for some reason don't believe it to be the Psuedo dragon of this generation. Yes, it shares traits with Garchomp in that it's not a full-fledged dragon, but it doesn't look like it would fit the crowd. It may be a special version of Haxorus, albeit hopefully weaker given it will likely have higher natural speed (and it will likely not have mold breaker).

As far as abilities go, it's up in the air. Soundproof would make sense given that it's a sound oriented creature, but competitively this would serve little use for the creature. I considered Hustle as it is apparently very aggressive. There's also Rivalry or Moxie, if this thing is overly aggressive and combative in nature. But these abilities focus on attack, so that would be wasteful. An unbelievably powerful ability though would be Tinted Lens, but I doubt it would have that.

I see Noivern following the same boat as Haxorus in being incredibly powerful but limited movepool wise. it will probably be frail even as far as dragons go. Since it doesn't have an ability to speak of I don't know what to write here. Dang it.

Edited by Lorshinator
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Thanks for updating this Lorshy, I've been meaning to for quite some time.

So in the weeks passed we've seen a lot of new Pokemon and in general a lot of new information. Want I'm going to focus on here, however, is the MegaEvolutions. This inclusion is ground breaking potentially game breaking. This is for all intents and purposes the 'Attackolite' that theorymoned in posts past.

So, we already know that Blaziken will get a MegaEvolution (ME). Good God only knows what sort of doom this will spell for the already Über, but I think it's safe to say that this is another generation that won't be seeing Blaziken. What has my interst piqued more so about this is that of one starter gets a MegaEvolution, then naturally they all should. Without having information to actually go by we can only assume but I'm hoping thins like Meganium and Typhlosion become more used and hopefully not completely broken.

We also have MegaLucario which will see a boost in attack and the Ability Adaptability. This is massive. We're talking about 240 BP Close Combats here. That, in and of itself, is enough to be excited for.

Then there's MegaMawile! One of my all time favourites is gunna be useable! So MegaMawile will see a boost to its defences, gain a fairy typing and - last but not least - the ability Huge Power...!

Lets talk about that for a second, you thought Azumaril's Awua Jet was powerful? Now we're talking about sucker punches coming off of an attack stat that is at minimum 85 doubled (Azumaril's, I believe is only 50). Mawile is going to be the dragon slayer of this generation. It's steel typing being able to sponge the dragon typed attacks and its fairy typing and massive priority being their demise. It's hard counter will be Pokemon like Terrakion, this should hopefully be enough to keep it from getting the boot to uber. Massively excited for this!

MegaAbsol will gain the ability Magic Bounce and see an increase in attack. This is great news for Absol, as it will now see a lot more switching in opportunities, unphazed by stray status moves. It could also see a rise as an effective anti lead (should it be able to boast bulk enough to shrug off in boosted neutral attacks) as it will be untauntable, the opponent won't be able to set hazards and it can at minimum 2HKO with Superpower and Sucker Punch.

Amphoros is another Pokemon that is fully evolved and gets a ME. Amphoros gains a dragon typing and also Mould Breaker. I don't believe that Amphoros in this instance really gains much, just another Weakness. And while Mould Breaker is a great ability, without the moves to use it, it'll only really be able to hit Zapdos neutrally with Thunderbolt.

Finally there's MegaKangaskhan. This is an oddball if we ever did see one. The ability, Parental Bond allows it and its child to attack in the same turn. Now aside from the obvious hint that LC will be blessed with a baby kanga to play with, it's competitive usage means that each attack Kangaskhan performs will be essentially stronger and potentially able to bypass substitutes. I wonder how the mechanics might work. Imagine two STABed returns coming your way, or two Focus Punches. He'll think of how strong his Fake Out will now be!

Some things to consider:

- Megastones are a held item. So whilst they gain all that they gain they lose the ability to hold leftovers, life orb, choice items etc.

- as ME is a form of evolution, does this mean that Pokemon like Amphoros could use eviolite and become crazy bulky?

- there's always the chance that ME breaks the game. We can only hope that a ban system such as no rain + swift swim is put in place instead of banning ME altogether, or worse yet, banning Pokemon like Mawile.

- Only one MegaEvolution per battle.

- Would Zoroark's ability imitate the before or after ME Pokemon? Could we feint MegaLucario and instead come out swinging with scarfed standard Lucario?

All very exciting.

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Eviolite wont be a thing. I mean, it said that you activate Mega Evolution during battle. I see it as being similar to Darmanitan's Zen Mode, except as an item instead of an ability. So no, chances of Eviolite being a thing is pretty much nonexistant. I feel like Smogon will just ban the megastones for convenience - they could really wreck in the lower tiers, even if the lack of item means it'll be gimmicky in OU.

...I don't really think they'll have an effect on the competitive metagame, unless we're including TGC.

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Well what were talking about here is essentially an item that makes Mawile 4x resistant to Dragon type Pokemon and doubles his attack. I can't see how that'd be gimmicky, in all honesty. For Amphoros, were looking at an item that for all intents and purposes only adds a weakness. There'd be little viable argument to outright ban a huge part of the meta game for the sake of a few bad eggs. Where as a ban of say Lucario + Lucarionite seems like a just ban that would serve to only aid the meta-game (should he be an issue.)

Another interesting fact here is that you activate the MegaEvolution in battle WHILST using an attack. So this'd and it'll be easy to use and allows for a good amount of mind games, Lucario, for example is very much useable without the MegaEvolution and as such could be played like a lure. I'm talking feigning a special set, hit the MegaEvolution an sart kicking all sorts of ass from the physical side as MegaLucario. Or think about Absol whom fares well with a swords dance set relyin on the boosted crit chance of super luck, then as a wall comes in to inflict status he could hit the Mega switch and send the status affliction right back.

I think it could allow for really interesting tactics and open up a whole new avenue of game play. I so hope however that it isnt done in a game smashing way that causes it to be banned.

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