Previous plans (No longer planned)

[Codr]

Managing user account registration and payments, mostly.

I assure you it's not that big of a deal. I don't care to provide details, but it won't be a problem at all.

User support is another question - people would expect more personal help than the forums usually provide if they have to pay, IMO.

If someone has an unrealistic expectation, that's really not my problem. Paying for software, certainly such a small amount, doesn't mean you control the creator. Sure, I'll feel more compelled to help after the change, as was already mentioned earlier in the thread.

The fact here is that not only people will have to pay, but their user experience will suffer. Ok, I'll dual-boot as I need the features the program provides but I'll still swear under my breath every time I have to do so.

That's what you get for using a non-mainstream OS. I really just don't have much sympathy for people who aren't using Windows because of how bad of a decision it is in today's environment. Again, there's absolutely nothing that can be done about this, so discussion regarding it is really pointless.

There is a company in Russia called 1C that provides accounting software. They ARE market leaders and their software is considered an industry standard. Because of their stupid DRM protection, companies buy licenses (that they show to police during random checkups), but actual software is installed straight from pirate downloads with anti-piracy checkups disabled. Think Starforce, and you'll understand what I mean.

The software still got paid for, what are you getting at? Do you honestly think PokeGen's requirement of an internet connection occasionally is that big of a deal?

Well, maybe I put it too rough, but can you really say that positive feedback doesn't motivate you at all?

Sure it does, but what're you trying to point out by that? It's simply not adequate.

Move your download page and support forum to a website that uses ads. Make donations requests more aggressive.

You were just talking about making things more annoying for users. I can tell you what annoys me more than a VERY small payment like this is advertisements and constant nagging.

[PhiferWolf]

Is it sad that I would pay (though gladly) just to import .pkm of the pokemon I once had (and to get a Kyurem-W) onto black 2? I know there is one other person who has been asking about the ability to important .pkm directly into black 2 via a DS AR. Though I haven't tested this yet to see if it works, I haven't really heard of anything. I guess what I'm asking is if PokeGen will be compatible with DS AR to create the .pkm on Black 2 with this next update. (if it already is, I'll still pay :3)

[peno]

If someone has an unrealistic expectation, that's really not my problem. Paying for software, certainly such a small amount, doesn't mean you control the creator. Sure, I'll feel more compelled to help after the change, as was already mentioned earlier in the thread.

Don't take this easy, especially if you are from USA, where amount of stupid lawsuites over nonsense, which were, surprisingly, won, is really big. You may not know how, but you will face judge who will sentence you to pay all you have, just because you refused to provide support to your "client". And even outside US such lawsuite can happen. This is friendly warning from someone, who has personal experience with such thing.

The software still got paid for, what are you getting at? Do you honestly think PokeGen's requirement of an internet connection occasionally is that big of a deal?

You may be surprised. Just look what comments there were when EA announced the new SimCity will require internet connection to start it. And that's only one example. I've bet SimCity will be one of most pirated games of 2013. The same happened with Spore and many other games like this in past.

You were just talking about making things more annoying for users. I can tell you what annoys me more than a VERY small payment like this is advertisements and constant nagging.

That is your opinon, but you may actually be surprised how many people feel opposite and will rather stand excessive advertisements so they don't need to pay even a cent. I am not one of them, but I see it all out there. Just look at Android apps and how many people will rather take free version with commercials instead of pay version without it.

[randomspot555]

Is it sad that I would pay (though gladly) just to import .pkm of the pokemon I once had (and to get a Kyurem-W) onto black 2? I know there is one other person who has been asking about the ability to important .pkm directly into black 2 via a DS AR. Though I haven't tested this yet to see if it works, I haven't really heard of anything. I guess what I'm asking is if PokeGen will be compatible with DS AR to create the .pkm on Black 2 with this next update. (if it already is, I'll still pay :3)

You don't need an AR or Pokegen to do any of that. Just use a second DS or, lacking that, Pokecheck.

Don't take this easy, especially if you are from USA, where amount of stupid lawsuites over nonsense, which were, surprisingly, won, is really big.

A vague statement asserting a generality without a source. Yeah, I'll take Internet User Peno's legal advice over an actual, you know, scholarly source any day of the week.

You may not know how, but you will face judge who will sentence you to pay all you have, just because you refused to provide support to your "client".

Anyone who tries to sue Internet User Codr over not providing a Pokemon editing software to them or not doing anything they like or whatever would get laughed out of every court room in America and probably would never even find a lawyer to represent them.

You may be surprised. Just look what comments there were when EA announced the new SimCity will require internet connection to start it. And that's only one example. I've bet SimCity will be one of most pirated games of 2013. The same happened with Spore and many other games like this in past.

You're telling me people complain about something on the Internet?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

[Codr]

You may not know how, but you will face judge who will sentence you to pay all you have, just because you refused to provide support to your "client".

This is seriously amusing. Why does everyone think that a payment must mean that you're entitled to endless support and anything they want? This is not how it works.

You may be surprised. Just look what comments there were when EA announced the new SimCity will require internet connection to start it. And that's only one example. I've bet SimCity will be one of most pirated games of 2013. The same happened with Spore and many other games like this in past.

These games don't cost less than $10. And again, they were not pirated as a result of the anti-piracy being annoying.

That is your opinon, but you may actually be surprised how many people feel opposite and will rather stand excessive advertisements so they don't need to pay even a cent. I am not one of them, but I see it all out there. Just look at Android apps and how many people will rather take free version with commercials instead of pay version without it.

I didn't say it wasn't my opinion. However, I'm not concerned about opinions in this particular matter. The decision has been made and won't be changing now. I know it's the more suitable of the alternatives.

[HydroSage]

Since when is paying for someone's hard work a bad thing? If u are sick you would pay a doctor;if you want fast food you would pay the restaurant. People need to relax, what Codr is doing is perfectly acceptable, if you don't want to pay then simply use a different program from someone who doesn't mind being freeloaded from.

On another note; Codr I am wondering if your program would support a way to trigger the "unova link" feature/transfer game data from BW? And a way to get the PWT downloads for those of us who play on emulator. Just a couple of questions, not demands. Thanks for your hard work.

[Codr]

Since when is paying for someone's hard work a bad thing?

It's a bad thing when people think they're entitled to free everything.

On another note; Codr I am wondering if your program would support a way to trigger the "unova link" feature/transfer game data from BW? And a way to get the PWT downloads for those of us who play on emulator. Just a couple of questions, not demands.

Support for some of the new stuff in Black 2/White 2

[evandixon]

Most license agreements people agree to and never read state that the software is provided "as-is", with no obligation for the developer to change or support it if it doesn't work. So, Codr will not have to pay customers for lack of support if he licenses it that way.

I'm pretty sure he will continue to fix problems, but Codr legally doesn't have to.

[PhiferWolf]

You don't need an AR or Pokegen to do any of that. Just use a second DS or, lacking that, Pokecheck.

Well, it seems like some issues came up. Can't seem to get the DNS to work properly to allow me to use the GTS. I have half a dozen or so pokemon that have illegal moves and a plethora more with hidden abilities, not sure if that'll work... /sigh

I guess I should wait for some sort of update on ARDS working or something because that seems to be my only means.

[peno]

This is seriously amusing. Why does everyone think that a payment must mean that you're entitled to endless support and anything they want? This is not how it works.

Because they paid? I don't say it's right, but that's how people are.

These games don't cost less than $10. And again, they were not pirated as a result of the anti-piracy being annoying.

I am sorry to be rude here, but I must. You are so naive, if you believe that. Seriously.

I didn't say it wasn't my opinion. However, I'm not concerned about opinions in this particular matter. The decision has been made and won't be changing now. I know it's the more suitable of the alternatives.

Then, let your opinion to ruin your program. I will pay, but I want to be sure the program I paid for will stay updated and will not be abandoned, like it happened to so many freeware which suddenly got to pay path. No$GBA is just one example.

A vague statement asserting a generality without a source. Yeah, I'll take Internet User Peno's legal advice over an actual, you know, scholarly source any day of the week.

You want a source? Well, I thought I don't need to provide a source of stupid lawsuites, but if you really need one, what about woman who burned her tongue with coffee in McDonald's, sued them and, surprisingly, won? Just one example of many similarly stupid lawsuits.

Anyone who tries to sue Internet User Codr over not providing a Pokemon editing software to them or not doing anything they like or whatever would get laughed out of every court room in America and probably would never even find a lawyer to represent them.

You would be surprised haw many lawyers out there would jump for such stupid lawsuit. They don't care, they will get their money if they'll win or lose. And judges are pretty much the same. They will sentence you before you (or your lawyer) will say "Your Honor, this lawsuit is ridiculous.

You're telling me people complain about something on the Internet?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

Yeah, just like they put so many exclamation and question marks on the end of their sentences, because one is not enough to make their point :rolleyes:

[Codr]

...

This isn't being turned into a huge argument, especially given the feel I'm getting from your responses. You've been given more than adequate information to satisfy your "concerns", but you're unwilling to accept it, so that's not my problem. Don't post again on these same topics.

[randomspot555]

You want a source? Well, I thought I don't need to provide a source of stupid lawsuites, but if you really need one, what about woman who burned her tongue with coffee in McDonald's, sued them and, surprisingly, won? Just one example of many similarly stupid lawsuits.

You said you know this from "personal experience". So not only did you lie, but you have no actual knowledge of what actually constitutes a "stupid lawsuit."

The McDonald's hot coffee case had McDonalds serving coffee that caused third degree burns when spilled. Yes, the lady was stupid and partially negligent in spilling her coffee while in her vehicle, but coffee, even hot coffee, shouldn't be hot enough to cause third degree burns...anywhere.

In no way, shape or form is Codr giving bonus features to people who voluntarily donate similar to Liebeck v McDonald's Restaurants.

You would be surprised haw many lawyers out there would jump for such stupid lawsuit.

Again, you have no knowledge of how the law works.

Yeah, just like they put so many exclamation and question marks on the end of their sentences, because one is not enough to make their point :rolleyes:

What was your point of even bringing it up? People complain, news at 11. If people are complaining, they can use the free PokeGen, or they can go to any of the other numerous other methods of obtaining Pokemon.

[crackychan]

Hey there!

Heard the news that PokeGen becoming pay to use. Just wanted to pop in and spread some encouragement- friends and I will definitely be donating to it. Great program, very useful. Thank you again for all the time spent working on it!

[Pedro250]

Hi Codr, just to say two things:

First, i support you decision of make PokeGen a paid program, you developed it, you created it, you should (and you are) allowed to do whatever you want with it, and everyone wo does not like it, just don't continue to use it, simple as that.

Second, i am a bit worried about the "DRM" that you will implement, i (and i believe alot of people here) am not a big supporter of any type of DRM, even if it is a "not always internet connection", it can develop issues like if am in a place with no internet, and the program ask for internet connection, i will not be able to use the program that i paid, etc.... Here is my idea for an "DRM" much less intrusive: instead of an "casual internet requirement", why not only check the "legal status" of the application when you update it, like this: a person buy PokeGen, first time execute check on internet for "legal status", if ok the program unlock. After that the program will always work in offline, never needing any type of connection, but when an update appears, it will again check for the "legal status". If the "legal status" is ok, the person gets the update.

To know if a person bought or not the application, you ca use a serial key, or some sort of "account system", or something like that.

When you release more information about the "DRM" of the application, i will decide if i buy it or not, for me that will be the most important thing.

[Codr]

The current plan is to require validation once every 5 days. Is that really going to be so much of an issue?

[boogie]

so is new version released? i am so willing to pay for pokegen. i just don't know what is going on because of my bad english reading skill.

[exanup]

Will you be providing a free version too with (of course) less features (and may be advertisements)? My problem is my region where i stay. In Nepal, for a non-mature non-job-doer person (like me ) it is costly and time-consuming process to even get a credit card from own bank, forget about online via PayPal.... Or you may make facility of taking payments by International Banking (does this exists?) or may be something like IME or Western Union Money Transfer System?? Sorry, my English is not good as I am non-native of it.

[Pedro250]

The current plan is to require validation once every 5 days. Is that really going to be so much of an issue?

When you say that, it makes me believe that you know very little about DRM, and how it really works (turns buy into rent).

Do you know the vide game Mass Effect? Release in 2007 (November), it had a very similar DRM (a once every 10 days online check). It did not lasted long, in May 2008 the developers, Bioware (parte of EA), had to delete the DRM because the problems that it had ONLY on the person that legally acquired it (the pirated versions never had any problems). You can check this info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Effect_(video_game)#Controversies

If for them, a major developer, part of a major company, it did not worked, what makes you believe that it will work for you?

If you server is down, if there is a problems on the connections on the users side, if the person is in a place with no Internet, etc... what will happen?

[randomspot555]

Will you be providing a free version too with (of course) less features

The current version that is available for download right now is free.

[Codr]

Will you be providing a free version too with (of course) less features (and may be advertisements)? My problem is my region where i stay. In Nepal, for a non-mature non-job-doer person (like me ) it is costly and time-consuming process to even get a credit card from own bank, forget about online via PayPal.... Or you may make facility of taking payments by International Banking (does this exists?) or may be something like IME or Western Union Money Transfer System?? Sorry, my English is not good as I am non-native of it.

As randomspot mentioned, the current version can't exactly be removed from the public, so it's still going to be around.

I'm not completely against other forms of payment, but I don't know what else yet. I honestly have no idea how PayPal would be different for you where you live, but if you'd care to explain, I'm curious.

(turns buy into rent).

Renting implies a repeated payment? I'm not sure how that's applicable.

Do you know the vide game Mass Effect? Release in 2007 (November), it had a very similar DRM (a once every 10 days online check). It did not lasted long, in May 2008 the developers, Bioware (parte of EA), had to delete the DRM because the problems that it had ONLY on the person that legally acquired it (the pirated versions never had any problems).

If for them, a major developer, part of a major company, it did not worked, what makes you believe that it will work for you?

Being much more popular makes a difference. It's possible that this requirement will end up being removed just like they did, but for the moment, I don't intend to refrain from adding it.

If you server is down, if there is a problems on the connections on the users side, if the person is in a place with no Internet, etc... what will happen?

I don't think the majority of people are going to have any issues with making a connection to a server once every five days. Some people will, yes, but this is something you know before paying.

[Pedro250]

"Renting implies a repeated payment? I'm not sure how that's applicable." - Some types of renting only require one payment, but have time limit (like a car renting, or a vacation-house renting, at least in my country is like that). The future version of PokeGen only requires one payment, and have a time limit of 5 days, the only difference is that it gets 5 more days after that 5 days ended (much like an infinite rent). See the similarities here?

"Being much more popular makes a difference. It's possible that this requirement will end up being removed just like they did, but for the moment, I don't intend to refrain from adding it." - How could the game bee popular on his release date? It was a new IP, not a sequel or a spin-off of a popular game. It gained popularity, and that was probably what made Bioware give up on the DRM.

"I don't think the majority of people are going to have any issues with making a connection to a server once every five days. Some people will, yes, but this is something you know before paying." - I don't think you know the majority of the situations, don't think that everyone, every city, every country work like yours. You may have a good Internet connection, and your ISP may provide a good service, but it isn't like that in every place. Don't be naive, that can ruin you "business".

[Codr]

Some types of renting only require one payment, but have time limit (like a car renting, or a vacation-house renting, at least in my country is like that). The future version of PokeGen only requires one payment, and have a time limit of 5 days, the only difference is that it gets 5 more days after that 5 days ended (much like an infinite rent). See the similarities here?

Yes, but are you implying that there's a limited period in which you can use PokeGen after the payment...? If not, this comparison makes no sense.

How could the game bee popular on his release date? It was a new IP, not a sequel or a spin-off of a popular game. It gained popularity, and that was probably what made Bioware give up on the DRM.

...the company...? Of course it's a well-known name, and has marketing to go with it. You're not furthering your attempted point here.

don't think you know the majority of the situations, don't think that everyone, every city, every country work like yours. You may have a good Internet connection, and your ISP may provide a good service, but it isn't like that in every place. Don't be naive, that can ruin you "business".

How do you know what I know? Perhaps I have more detailed usage data than you realize. Yet you're calling me naive? You're being overly presumptuous about all of this, and acting as though you're highly experienced in all of these matters. The chance of that is miniscule.

I think any reasonable person would agree that my statement regarding usage is the most likely case. You're making so many assumptions about what my intentions are as well. I'm not concerned if I don't cater to every single individual here. I'm not a company worried about utter perfection in profits. I'll do what I can and make decisions as necessary.

[Bond697]

the "points" you're making are starting to get ridiculous. the whole thing about the mass effect drm is extremely disingenuous, the bullshit about renting is.. strange and wrong to say the least, and frankly i doubt broadband goes down for more than a few hours, maybe up to a day, almost anywhere. including in portugal, where service is apparently excellent.

[boogie]

pokegen has more user friendly interface and translation, but i really hope there are other features as much as pokestock. i am definitely gonna pay for the new pokegen though. i am so looking forward to it.

[Pedro250]

this conversation is starting to get ridiculous. the whole thing about the mass effect drm is extremely disingenuous, the bullshit about renting is.. strange and wrong to say the least, and frankly i doubt broadband goes down for more than a few hours, maybe up to a day, almost anywhere. including in portugal, where service is apparently excellent.

"...the bullshit about renting is..." - What here is bullshit? Like i said, imagine that Codr decide to shut down the PokeGen server, you will be unable to use PokeGen. When buying PokeGen with this DRM, so you will pay for something that is a "infinite rent". This happen with all types of DRM, not just this. When you buy something with a DRM, it is not a BUY, it is a RENT, whenever you like it or not.