Toasters want to hug you. (OU Offensive Team)

[Illithian]

Hello indeed. You may have noticed the team name, inspired by some smartass on Shoddy who had a field day after I sweeped someone 5-0 twice in a row. This team is designed to be very offensive and to keep pressure at all times. I've refined it and refined it, switching out pokemon from my original team and refining movesets. The original team can be found here if you wish to see it.

Anyway, here's the lineup:

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Metagross @ Lum Berry

Ability: Clear Body

EVs: 252 HP/170 Atk/80 Def/8 Spd

Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Bullet Punch

- Explosion

- Stealth Rock

- Earthquake / Meteor Mash

Metagross is my favorite lead so far, and he has yet to fail me in a big way. His incredible bulk almost guarantees setting up stealth rock. Considering the small batch of common OU leads, its extremely easy to predict what one will do; for example, for an Aero, its obviously a starting taunt, which makes for an excellent opportunity to switch in, say, Celebi, or Latias, to kill it. Not only that, but with proper prediction, Metagross can suck up a ton of damage in the early and midgame, while returning from his 382 attack.

Bullet Punch is a clear choice. Not only does it make up for his pathetic base speed, but its brilliantly useful for taking out the lead sashers. And with STAB, it ends up being Meta's attack of choice against many opponents over EQ; considering the amount of resistances and immunities to EQ there are in the leads.

I personally would prefer Meteor Mash over Earthquake. However, I ran Meteor Mash to start with, and it ended mostly in disaster whenever I faced fellow Metagross leads. The unfortunate thing is that generally, it was extremely useful against most all other leads. For example, Gengar are OHKOed by it, Swampert take heavy damage, Azelf are 2HKOed with Metoer Mash + Bullet Punch. However, against fellow Metagross's, Earthquake is a clear choice, and it can be useful.

Stealth Rock is fairly obvious. Explosion is the prediction move of choice here, and is the reason Metagross is so effective; most suicide leads can't really do much aside from set up rocks then explode in your face. However, Metagross can take an Explosion from pretty much anything in its stride, taking less then 60% from the average Azelf and less then 50 from the average Metagross lead. Not only that, but once a sweeper switches in, Metagross does a fantastic job of taking them out with Explosion; or, if its something like Infernape or Heatran, I can switch out to something safer.

Lum Berry is what allows this set to function with no hindrances. The reason for it over the obvious Occa berry is because: A. for most experienced players, they won't use a fire attack because occa berry is so expected. and B. for players who don't predict much, its easy to switch out of the predicted fire attack. Secondly, Lum Berry enables Metagross to eat status that would normally cause big problems for other members, and simply eat up status like sleep that often comes towards leads.

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb

Ability: Technician

EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def

Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Bullet Punch

- X-Scissor / U-turn

- Swords Dance

- Brick Break / Superpower

Scizor. The incarnation of overused. The definition of a revenge killer. This classic set perfectly suits my great enjoyment of prediction. I do not like choice; I feel it ruins the point of predicting. Scizor is already powerful enough to do his job as a revenge killer to near perfection without a +1 boost to attack from a Choice Band; a x1.3 boost from Life Orb is plenty good enough, and considering how many switches he causes and his plentiful defenses, getting off a Swords Dance isn't the most difficult thing in the world.

Bullet Punch is totally self explanatory and is the key move in this entire set. Swords Dance enables Scizor to make full use of the freedom of moves, along with the ability to elevate his already high attack (394) to broken levels, and allows Scizor to use Superpower with impunity.

U-turn is the lategame move that barely ever gets any use. The coverage provided by Bullet Punch and Superpower rarely requires its use, but in the lategame, it can sometimes get used.

Finally, Superpower. Brick Break is what I was using for a long time, and frankly, I got tired of the lack of power. Superpower allows him to score so many more OHKOes such as Tyranitar, and with Swords Dance, its quite usable.

Life Orb is an absolute must. The rest is self explanatory.

Rotom (Rotom-h) @ Leftovers

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spd

Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Thunderbolt

- Hidden Power [Grass]

- Overheat

- Will-o-wisp / Shadow Ball

The toaster. I used to hate that horrible orange blob with oven gloves, but I fell in love with it the moment I used it. Quite possibly one of my favorite pokemon I've ever used on Shoddy, behind Porygon2. His fabulous typing and utility cannot be ignored. Not only can he switch in from Metagross on virtually every lead in the game, he can also counter them, all, with moderate effectiveness. Azelf is almost guaranteed to explode after having set up rocks and taken some damage, so with prediction (my favorite word) this guy can eat it easily. Same goes for Metagross, Snorlax, and all other exploders.

Thunderbolt is the bread-n-butter STAB move that eats away at opponents and can quickly check Gyarados, Starmie, and more. HP Grass seems an odd choice over HP Fighting. However, with a little bit of testing, the only person I use HP Fighting on is Tyranitar, whom I probably wouldn't keep Rotom in on anyway. Blissey is a quick switch-out since HP Fighting does pitiful damage to it anyway, so I have yet to find a threat that HP Fighting covers that HP Grass couldn't do as well. And, HP Grass enables him to switch in on Swampert and literally kill them.

Overheat is the reason Rotom-h exists, and why my friendly toaster oven is so unbearably useful. It checks so many threats, its ridiculous. And, it enables a quick switchin to RS Forretres and OHKO them if they're stupid enough to stay in.

Finally, Will-o-wisp. I'm extremely dissapointed in its use as of late; I simply don't have a turn to waste to set it up, and most of the time, I can be far more effective by using that turn to switch to an appropriate counter. As such, I've opened a consideration for Shadow Ball. Not only does it allow Rotom to deal considerable damage to both stall pokemon that ruin my team into little pieces (Cresselia and Dusknoir), but it would also provide some STAB coverage against stray Azelfs that havn't exploded yet. In any case, discussion is open.

I am considering a more offensive EV/nature spread to better take advantage of his attacks, but I'm worried it will stop him from checking Gyarados.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb

Ability: Intimidate

EVs: 2 HP/252 Atk/220 Spd/36 SAtk

Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)

- Dragon Dance

- Outrage / Dragon Claw

- Fire Blast

- Earthquake

The most basic, most obvious, most classic DDmence. The simple perfection offered by this set is that 95% of the time, I don't ever switch him in. He is my lategame everything. Not only does he effectively counter pretty much anything, but with Rotom-h to take care of steels, I don't actually need him to do all that much in the midgame. This enables me to easily setup a DD for a lategame sweep.

Dragon Dance is the essence of the set. Fire Blast enables Salamence to preform an excellent job in ridding me of irritating Bronzong, Skarmory, and Scizor.

Next, we get to Dragon Claw. Outrage is the obvious better choice for the lategame, but the freedom to switch moves in Dragon Claw is exceedingly useful. However, the base power difference is extremely difficult to overlook. I've been effectively using Dragon Claw for some time, and I'm reluctant to use Outrage. Still, it may be a better choice. I'll need time to test it.

Finally, Earthquake. Simply, it allows Salamence to complete his lategame sweep quite sucessfully and if he comes out in the midgame, rid me of quite a few different threats.

Suicune @ Leftovers

Ability: Pressure

EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 SAtk

Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)

- Calm Mind

- Ice Beam

- Surf

- Roar

CM Suicune is my replacement for Celebi. Whilst it takes out my best Swampert counter, I believe he will work better then Celebi did.

His purpose is do shuffle pokemon around as much as possible to inflict SR damage; use Calm Mind to form a reliable special wall; and proceed to deal as much damage as possible with Surf and Ice Beam.

Latias (F) @ Life Orb

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk

Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Surf

- Recover

- Draco Meteor

- Thunderbolt

Finally, Latias. Ironically, Latias serves as my most powerful early game sweeper. I love Latias beyond measure; I have used her to full effect in almost all my battles. Her natural bulk is incredibly abusable and enables her to easily take fire attacks directed towards Metagross or Celebi, along with levitate past Earthquakes and Earth Power (heatran). She simply fills a niche role in my team thats invaluable.

Surf is the bread'n'butter move for Latias, scoring SE on a suprisingly large batch of pokemon and dealing pleasing damage to everything that doesnt resist it. Recover enables Latias to stay in even longer, and considering how early I bring her out, its extremely useful.

Draco Meteor is the reason this set is just so effective. Yes, it hinders her ability to stay in. However, STAB brings it to a jaw dropping 210 base power, coupled by her above average special attack, enables it to deal fatal damage to a great majority of the threats in OU, and if not fatal, deal extremely heavy damage. Because of stealth rocks, Latias can guarantee an OHKO on the standard Zapdos with Draco Meteor.

Thunderbolt rarely gets used for me, but it does occasionally get some anti-Gyarados action.

The most dangerous foes for Latias are Mamoswine and Tyranitar by an extreme far. Both are easily checked by Scizor, although pursuit-tar is an issue. DDmence is a big problem, as modest Latias gets outsped by it even without a DD, but Rotom and Celebi can quickly take care of him.

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Please, rate. Suicune offers a needed water type, but Tyranitar would be extremely helpful in this team, aside from the fact that he would hurt half the pokemon in it and would cause big problems for Mence (SR + LO + Sandstorm = dead fairly quickly).

Edited June 15, 2009 by Illithian

[Greencat]

Wow, I really like this team! It's very resistant to EQ and other ground moves. No Electric weakness. I do suggest you add Choiice Scarf to Metagross and put Trick in there. I, personally, would add Agili-Zap instead of Celebi. Celebi has to many weaknesses and I never found them helpful in any of my battles. I like it other than that, though.

[Illithian]

Wow, I really like this team! It's very resistant to EQ and other ground moves. No Electric weakness. I do suggest you add Choiice Scarf to Metagross and put Trick in there. I, personally, would add Agili-Zap instead of Celebi. Celebi has to many weaknesses and I never found them helpful in any of my battles. I like it other than that, though.

Thanks.

I agree that Celebi doesn't seem to be doing enough, but she checks Swampert, something that not much else on my team can reliably do.

In any case, I now have three main pokemon choices to replace Celebi:

Empoleon, which would be an Agility, 3 attacks set (I never liked sub-Petaya), which could still deal with Swampert (Grass Knot), Dragons [Mainly Salamence] (Ice Beam), and add a powerful STAB water attack to my team. I very much like that idea, and I've never used an Empoleon, so... I might try it.

Secondly, Zapdos. I would without any doubts choose an offensive set, with Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, and HP Grass (and Roost). Yes, HP Ice would serve me better for disabling Dragons, but I require this pokemon slot to be able to check, and if possible counter, most forms of Swampert.

Finally, Suicune. An offensive CM Suicune would be good, although I'd miss HP Grass in favor of Electric. Still, a Specs Suicune is a good consideration.

[randomspot555]

I've used a similar Scizor set (same EV spread, nature, ability).

U-Turn is Scizor's best bug STAB IF it's holding a Choice item. Otherwise, X-Scissor is preferred so you won't lose your +atk from Swords Dance.

The choice between Superpower and Brick Break is safety vs risk. I think Brick Break is just fine on a SD set, especially if you don't plan on switching out a lot. Superpower fits much better on a Choice Band set, where switching out is more common. Really, you shouldn't think of it as much of a weapon against Tyranitar (since Tyranitar is almost always going to get out due to Bullet Punch) and more of a weapon against Heatran switch ins.

But if you really don't see yourself using the STAB Bug option, how about throwing Protect or Substitute on there? Protect can help you out if you need to see what your opponent will do. Sub is worth considering if you want to pair it up with Leftovers, which helps ensure safety and a chance to Sword Dance up.

Salamence and Outrage, as any Outrage user, is all about when to use it. Use it too early, and Scizor and co are going to come in and set up. But after you've scouted out threats, it's a fine option.

As to your Celebi set, I can't speak much on how good it is. As a Wi-Fi player, I don't have access to a Celebi that's viable in better...and I don't think I've ever faced one. I can run down some options for you, as far as the ones you named:

Starmie seems good enough to be bulky like many of it's water brethren, but the Psychic typing adds a Dark/Ghost weakness that holds it back. I've tried an all out defensive set with Starmie, and it wasn't worth the trouble.

That being said, Starmie can still be a team player. Just take the basic Rapid Spin set, which provides Starmie with enough bulk (any more is relatively useless). Keep Rapid Spin if you want, but if not, replace it with any number of team support options (screens, Confuse Ray, Thunder Wave, Toxic). I've also experimented with a Rapid Spin set but lose Surf in place of a team support move. However, it opens up Starmie to be extremely Tyranitar weak, even moreso than it is now.

Starmie's basic Choice sets with Trick are also very viable with either Specs or Scarf. The only thing to watch out for is when you Trick it to another Choice holder. If...for example, you Trick with a Choice Band Weavile or Tyranitar, they'll Pursuit your ass as you are forced to switch out. But it's a great mid-late game move that I've unfortunately been crippled by too many times. Grass Knot access and the fact that most Swamperts won't enjoy Choice Scarf makes it decent if that's your main concern.

Suicine is a great all around bulky water. Many right away will say RestTalk, but I think Milotic does that better, and Suicune can do other things that Milo can't.

Suicune w/ Leftovers

Calm (+SpD, -atk)/Bold (+Def, -Atk)

Pressure

252 HP/252 DEF/6 Sp Atk

- Calm Mind/Roar

- Ice Beam

- Surf

- Wall of Text of options

Suicune's 4th move has a variety of stuff to play around with.

My personal favorite is Roar. Force out those pesky stat-upping/sub using bastards with this. Acts great early in the game to scout a team. If you opt for Roar over Calm Mind in the first slot, it'll be a good idea to get some bulk out and into Special Attack and Special Defense.

Toxic is also viable. Most steel types won't enjoy switching into STAB Surf/Hydro Pump, and Suicune resists Steel, so I don't think that's justification enough to rule it out.

HP Electric can be useful against Gyarados. The other common HPs aren't really worth the move slot and you seem to already have good answers for Heatran and Scizor. HP Grass is kind of worth considering if you think it's that much of a threat.

Swagger can help out against Blissey and co. It does seem slightly gimmicky but as long as you are sure there aren't physical attackers out there who can absorb it with Lum Berry, you'll be fine.

Mirror Coat is also useful if you can't decide what to put in the last slot.

Signal Beam is available via Plat Move Tutor, but unless you're shaking in your boots about Ludicolo, then don't use it.

However, even though I just typed up a wall of text about Suicune's fourth move slot, I think Starmie is overall better since Natural Cure is still on your team, which you greatly need to absorb Status that isn't Toxic.

Finally, Milotic. Mainly RestTalk so we can keep absorbing status. Marvel Scale gives it pretty good physical defenses. Max out it's HP is a must. How much you split between Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense depends on what you think your team needs as far as defense goes and what nature you choose, so I'm mainly going to talk about it's two move slots.

Surf + Ice Beam are what comes to mind at first, but I'll make a case for a few others in place of Ice Beam.

Toxic is suggested on Smogon's page and I've found it to be quite helpful. Again, steel types aren't likely to ever stay in on a bulky water, so that shouldn't be used to justify a move over Toxic.

HP whatever are viable candidates on other sets, but this won't help much with little to no special attack investment.

Icy Wind: People laugh at me whenever I've used this. Both not expecting it and noting the low amount of damage it does, which is true. But that isn't the point. The point is to slow everything down a notch or two. And without Thunder Wave, Icy Wind does that just fine. It also makes Gyarados less scary. Sure, it switches in with little damage, but also a drop in speed. Also likely to force switches

And if you're iffy about RestTalk sets, Milotic also learns Safeguard. But I haven't played around with non-RestTalk sets in OU, so I can't make any suggestions

And apparently, you addressed most of my points in your post. Zapdos would be a great addition to your team, but I think the three outlined here are also worthy of consideration.

EDIT AGAIN: Apparently, I overlooked every single one of Milotic's egg moves, but most of those won't be worth the slot on Rest Talk.

[Illithian]

Okay, based on randomspot's comments (and Enkidu's comments on my old thread), I'm going to swap Superpower for Brick Break and U-Turn for X-Scissor.

Salamence is getting Outrage. I'm tired of Dragon Claw not doing enough.

Alright as far as replacing Celebi, its down to between Empoleon and Suicune. I absolutely love the idea of an Agility Empoleon, but based on what randomspot said, Suicune looks like a better choice. Which is saddenning to me.

As far as a fourth attack, HP Ghost might be a good idea as my only reliable counter to Dusknoir or possibly Rotom (although dangerous), both of which I've had extreme trouble with. And I would go with Calm on Suicune.

I've never liked or used a Resttalk set, and I don't intend to.

[randomspot555]

HP Ghost at 70 power for SE damage = 140

STAB Surf for neutral damage = 142

That's why HP are almost always geared to the Pokemon with x4 weaknesses, because 90% of the time, a STAB move such as Surf will do just as much, if not more, damage.

But Dusknoir relies heavily on Pressure Stalling. Will O Wisp, Toxic, etc...because it's other attacks won't do much unless for x4 damage. Your best bet is probably to Roar it away, since Suicune won't mind a burn too much.

[Illithian]

I guess you're right, for suicune, roar is the best bet for the fourth slot.

Still, what about Empoleon? Is there any particular reason Suicune is better then the standard Agility + 3 attacks set?

[randomspot555]

I guess you're right, for suicune, roar is the best bet for the fourth slot.

Still, what about Empoleon? Is there any particular reason Suicune is better then the standard Agility + 3 attacks set?

Better isn't a term I'd use since they serve different roles.

Even though Empoleon has like 10 resists + poison immunity, it is weak to what is arguably the 3 most common types of attacks: Ground, Fighting, and Electric. And unlike most of it's water brothers and sisters, it takes neutral damage to fire.

Agility Empoleon's (with Life Orb + 3 atks or PEtaya berry + Sub) are basically very offensive. Due to the variety of attacks it can come in on, it can force a switch on any number of Choiced Pokemon, Agility or Sub up, and start a sweep. However, it can't take hits very well unless it resists them, and almost no one is going to have a team without Electric/Fighting/Ground attacks, even if they're down to their last Pokemon.

It's defensive sets largely rely on the same. Come in on a resist, and on the switch set up Stealth Rock, use Knock Off, Roar, or Yawn. But it can be argued that other Pokemon do this type of stuff better. And it's probably Agility sets that put Empoleon into OU rather than anything else.

Suicune on the other hand doesn't have a large amount of resists, but isn't weak to Ground and Fighting (and sure it's weak to electric, but Calm Mind helps out so it can handle Thunderbolt). It's bulky, has Pressure, and can Roar away threats. But most sets don't utilize it's special attack stat because it's more about taking hits than dealing damage.

So it depends on what you want. Agility Empoleon will have a lot of chances to come in and be a pretty decent offensive Pokemon. Suicune can come in and play defense.

And yes, Roar is a great option. Expect to see Gyarads come in, then force it out with Roar and let it take some more SR damage. Speaking of which, maybe consider a second Stealth Rock user, or not exploding Metagross?

Personally, I think Agility Empoleon is extremely overrated and might even be bordering on gimmicky, as well as many of the other Steel/whatever typed Pokemon running defensive sets, like Heatran. Sure, these Pokemon have the base stats to wall, but when their few weaknesses are extremely common, it's pretty easy to force a switch or take it down.

[Illithian]

That settles that, I'll go with suicune. Editing in a sec.

[GGfan]

Hello,

I think your team synergy is very good, but there are still a few critics I have to make. First off your team counters/revenges most offensive threats, which is very good. The only things that could pose you troubles is an offensive cm Jirachi, which is not very common and maybe machamp if he haxes his way through your team P.

All of your pokes perform both offensive and defensive well.

Unfortunately you wont be able to beat good stall teams...

For example your Suicune wont be able to beat Bliss, and even if it was Crocune it will never be able to beat stall that got a perish song Celebi.

Suicune is not effective in beating stall anymore.

Your Mence is not able either, it will be phazed and cannot do enough damage with dragon claw to take down Hippo or Gyarados.

Scizor will be walled by gyarados and rotom, and Latias is completly walled by Blissey.

To make your team more viable in beating stall I suggest you make Mence a mixed Mence 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe, Draco Meteor, Brick Break, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Roost, rash nature item life orb

I think Brick Break+roost is more viable since Outrage makes Mence victim to revengers or status. I think this set is the best to break stall since it benefits from an instant recovery and can 2hko Bliss with Brick Break or just weaken it to finish it off with Latias.

Another suggestion I can make is to replace Suicune with an expert belt TTar Superpower, Pursuit, Stone Edge, Fire punch 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe adamant nature, the aim is to predict a switch to bliss, which is not too hard, and use Pursuit. The Expert Belt pretends a Choice Band, and will cause most Blisses to stay after they have scouted for Pursuit with Protect. The next turn you use Superpower and ohko it.

Even if your opponent knows this strategy you can still pursuit Bliss for high damage. TTar allows you to get rid of Bliss which will make Mixed Mence an extremely deadly force to any stall. It can ko a pursuited Bliss with Brick Break, roost and fire off Draco meteors and Fire Blasts until everything is utterly destroyed.

Good luck

[randomspot555]

Tyranitar would be an absolutely horrible addition to the team, with 3 of his Pokeon taking sand storm damage. It basically spells death for Salamence who'll take 25% from Stealth Rock + Life Orb recoil.

Tyranitar and it's fellow weather ability Pokes can't just be used on any team unless you have someone else to change the weather around, which is usually a waste of a move slot.

I don't think Suicune's objective is to beat Blissey. Blissey is the best special wall in the game, bar none. However, it can still effectively counter Blissey by getting it out via Roar. Suicune won't mind paralysis too much from Thunder Wave, but Toxic could be a problem.

As long as he has one Pokemon with a physical attack still around (or Roar on Suicune), he has a check on Blissey.

He's already commented that he'll be switching U-Turn with X-Scissor (and Outrage on Mence, which is fine as long as he doesn't do it too early in the game). That doesn't make Scizor any less weak to Gyarados, but then again, that's why we have a team. Scizor won't ever be able to take on Gyarados without something amazing like 3 swords dances or a crit, and it shouldn't be expected to.

As for Mence, I think you're overstimating Brick Break quite a bit:

Brick Break hitting for SE x2 damage = 150

STAB Dragon Claw for neutral damage = 120

STAB Outrage for neutral damage = 180

So for the cost of a bit less hard hitting, you get an attack that hits everything that isn't steel for neutral damage and still takes a huge chunk out of Blissey. Or Outrage doing even better than a SE fighting attack.

I think Rotom serves as a fine check on Machamp. Avoids Dynamic Punch. With NoGuard Machamp it has a 100% accurate Will O Wisp. The only thing it really fears is Payback.

Rotom-H is a decent enough check on Gyarados. Though I think it might be worth considering replacing Explosion on Metagross with Thunderpunch if you find yourself not exploding too often.

[GGfan]

wow did you even read my post?

I never was saying that gyarados was troublesome,

I just noticed that he cannot beat stall, and the fact that he can roar bliss does not change anything. Bliss will use toxic and switch in again and again while toxic wears Suicune down before it gets 6 cm.

Furthermore Ttar is a good option for this team if he uses a roost mence.

Two pokes with instant recovery, three being imune two sand,

why do you think sand would harm him?

Also I suggested an ensemble, if he choses do do so, he might consider TTar over Suicune.

oh and please read my post again before you post nonsens,

Have a nice day

[randomspot555]

I just noticed that he cannot beat stall, and the fact that he can roar bliss does not change anything. Bliss will use toxic and switch in again and again while toxic wears Suicune down before it gets 6 cm.

But when he has 2 physical attackers and one mixed (mostly physical) attacker, what's the point in saying Suicune can't beat Blissey? Of course it can't. Bliss will always wall it, regardless of it's move set.

That doesn't make Suicune any less viable. It just means it can't beat Blissey.

And if Toxic is Blissey's status of choice, then that's an invitation for Metagross to come on in since it won't be bothered too much by Blissey's flamethrower.

Furthermore Ttar is a good option for this team if he uses a roost mence.

Two pokes with instant recovery, three being imune two sand,

why do you think sand would harm him?

Because of Stealth Rock damage, sand storm, and Life Orb recoil, it'll be spending a lot of time Roosting away damage, or it dies off fairly quickly.

Also I suggested an ensemble, if he choses do do so, he might consider TTar over Suicune.

I don't even see how Tyranitar is a proper replacement for Suicune. They're completely different roles.

oh and please read my post again before you post nonsens,

Have a nice day

I did. Please don't insinuate anything otherwise. I did misread the part about Gyarados, but no need to dismiss my post as nonsense. It's very much worth pointing out that sand storm will harm a lot of Pokemon on this team.

[Illithian]

Thank you GGfan and randomspot (again); I'll try to respond to everything.

I have noticed that my team can't really respond to stall. Suicune isn't intended to beat bliss; if hes my last pokemon, I'm done for and thats the end of the story. My Suicune can't beat Celebi at all; his Ice Beam might 4HKO at best. However, with 1 calm mind, its a guaranteed 2HKO factoring in stealth rock. Thats not such a bad counter, and at worst, I'll do a lot of damage.

Machamp is completely checked by Rotom-h, and at worst, Salamence / Latias can destroy him.

Mence will be phased, I agree, but everything I use can and will be phased. The problem with phazing is the amount of damage the stalling pokemon can rack up.

Scizor will always be walled by hippo and rotom. Infact, he'll be walled by more then that. But hippo is throughly countered by both Latias and Suicune, and whilst Rotom can cause problems, I can deal with him. (kinda)

Alright, mixmence sounds interesting, but for a mixmence, I am against putting Brick Break on him; I feel its a waste of power. Crunch would be a much better choice IMO to combat ghosts that wall me throughly, and I think I'd want a powerful physical option in there such as Outrage. And I know that Brick Break can help break stall, but I can put him back on Scizor without a problem.

Ttar is out of the question. Sandstorms will cause more problems for this team then they'll solve, hurting all of my main attackers, all of which often get statused and rely heavily on LO damage. Although your strategy for defeating blissey is extremely appealing, along with the fact that ttar can massacre Rotom, Dusknoir, Cresselia, Latias, and can break stall into floating little pieces, it actually might be worth seriously considering. However, in my recent battles, Suicune has been extremely effective against balanced and offensive teams and has almost always played an important part in my battles. As such, switching him out is out of the question.

And furthermore, I'm not going to keep Suicune on Blissey.

Regardless whether I use the roost mence, which is unlikely since Mence generally is to frail to properly make use of Roost and goes down so quickly with two thunderbolts (I have the worst parahax ever) or a single ice beam/shard, Ttar will simply serve to wear down half my pokemon and not particularly be helpful for the rest.

And please be polite (ggfan) in my rmt. Thanks. Lets all be peaceful.

Anyway, so, changes to be made and thought about:

Tyranitar needs to be seriously considered, although who to switch him in for is difficult, and changes to many of my pokemon would have to be made to accommodate him.

Scizor has been switched to X-Scissor over U-turn and Brick Break over Superpower.

Salamence has been given Outrage.

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Also, I feel that Salamence hasn't been able to do enough damage as of late. Its simply failing in comparison to Latias and even Suicune. I need to make changes to him.

Also, Randomspot, I generally explode Metagross asap unless I'm against an Infernape or an Azelf lead, with which I generally get flamethrowered.

[GGfan]

Aight, you said you might consider the sugested TTar.

Well I thought about how to solve the problem that sand might poses to some of your mons, I think Latias could be replaced and rotom could be made a resttalker, which will helps you check Zapdos too.

As for Latias, I cannot see what are its purposes anyway, all it can do Mence+Suicune can do as well.

I think it could be replaced by Ttar. Making rotom a resttalker will leave Mence and Suicune weak to sand, to some extent.

I think this is an acceptable option.

[Illithian]

Aight, you said you might consider the sugested TTar.

Well I thought about how to solve the problem that sand might poses to some of your mons, I think Latias could be replaced and rotom could be made a resttalker, which will helps you check Zapdos too.

As for Latias, I cannot see what are its purposes anyway, all it can do Mence+Suicune can do as well.

I think it could be replaced by Ttar. Making rotom a resttalker will leave Mence and Suicune weak to sand, to some extent.

I think this is an acceptable option.

Well, replacing Latias is a very difficult choice to make.

Latias is my early game sweeper. Salamence isn't, hes lategame cleanup; Suicune is a special wall that doubles as a sweeper thanks to Calm Mind.

As such, I don't think replacing Latias is a good idea. In the interest of testing, I did replace him for a bit on Smogon shoddy. My results for a few different pokemon were interesting.

For Jirachi: Excellent results here. I used a physical mix set, and it almost always scores a KO and usually more then one; its suprisingly faster then most pokemon that switch on it, and I've outpredicted almost every opponent.

For Empoleon: Bad results. KOed quickly every time and served a purpose too similar to Suicune.

For Tyranitar: I brought him out early, and it ended up spelling premature death to both Salamence and Rotom; I can't see putting in Ttar at all without causing big changes to this teams strategy, changes I don't particularly want to make.

For Gengar: Dies to quickly.

For Alakazam: OHKOed by Scizor's CB BP

For Azelf: Worked surprisingly well actually, and I managed to get him to KO atleast one pokemon every time; also lasts longer then I expected. And since its quite zippy, its a great option for replacing Latias that I might actually use. (still, Jirachi was also very useful)

Anyway, thats just my thoughts. I don't think putting Ttar in there is going to be an easy option.

[GGfan]

Yes there is an easy option, you said Azelf did a good job.

Use a mixed 252/252 sweeper (naive nature!) with fire blast/flamethrwoer, grass knot, psychic and Explosion, item life orb. It can handle stall with some prediction.

It is a threat you do not want to underestimate, cb-Scizors bullet punch cannot ohko it, Tyranitar will be 2hkoed, Hippo can be ohkoed by Explosion gyarados will be 2hkoed by psychic with sr set up, rotom will be 2hkoed, Bliss will be ohkoed by Explosion(be careful and scout for Protect though, fake a nasty ploter >=))

Azelf can be a quite good stall breaker, so yeah give it a shot.

oh and you really should consider a resttalk rotom, toxic stall Zapdos kills your team atm P

[Illithian]

Yes there is an easy option, you said Azelf did a good job.

Use a mixed 252/252 sweeper (naive nature!) with fire blast/flamethrwoer, grass knot, psychic and Explosion, item life orb. It can handle stall with some prediction.

It is a threat you do not want to underestimate, cb-Scizors bullet punch cannot ohko it, Tyranitar will be 2hkoed, Hippo can be ohkoed by Explosion gyarados will be 2hkoed by psychic with sr set up, rotom will be 2hkoed, Bliss will be ohkoed by Explosion(be careful and scout for Protect though, fake a nasty ploter >=))

Azelf can be a quite good stall breaker, so yeah give it a shot.

oh and you really should consider a resttalk rotom, toxic stall Zapdos kills your team atm P

252/252 is an interesting idea, but the 252 SpA / 220 Spe / 36 Atk is hard to resist, since you can outspeed many more threats with it (Naive, outspeeds Latias, Salamence, and timid gengar)

Still though, Jirachi served me better then Azelf did... to the testing room.

P.S. I really don't like rest-talk sets.