wraith89 Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Just for fun... what would you specifically do to make underpowered Pokemon more useful? I dug up something I was making for an old hack I was making, and found some data of what I was planning on doing. This was for Gen IV btw... and I had some proposed changes for the legendary birds because the advantage was heavily polarised towards giving Zapdos the upper hand while the other two (Articuno mostly) suffered with little to no improvements as generations went by. [hgsssprite]144[/hgsssprite] Articuno 1 Gust 1 Powder Snow 3 Heal Bell 8 Agility 15 Mind Reader 22 Ice Shard 29 Ancientpower 36 Ice Beam 43 Hydro Pump 50 Roost 57 Reflect 64 Extrasensory 71 Blizzard 78 Sheer Cold 85 Hail 93 Tailwind 99 Hurricane (Modified) TM / HM: Note: Base TM/HM system is HGSS's with slight alterations For simplicity sakes, I will not use Gen V attacks currently * indicates additions + indicates changed TMs *+TM03 Hydro Pump *TM04 Calm Mind TM05 Roar TM06 Toxic TM07 Hail TM10 Hidden Power TM11 Sunny Day TM13 Ice Beam TM14 Blizzard TM15 Hyper Beam TM17 Protect TM18 Rain Dance *+TM21 Heal Bell *TM23 Iron Tail TM27 Return TM32 Double Team TM33 Reflect TM37 Sandstorm TM40 Aerial Ace TM42 Facade TM43 Secret Power TM44 Rest *+TM46 Extrasensory TM47 Steel Wing *+TM48 Power Gem TM51 Roost *TM55 Brine TM58 Endure TM68 Giga Impact TM72 Avalanche TM82 Sleep Talk TM83 Natural Gift TM87 Swagger *+TM88 Air Slash TM89 U-turn TM90 Substitute *TM91 Flash Cannon (?) HM02 Fly *HM03 Surf HM05 Whirlpool / Defog HM06 Rock Smash *HM07 Waterfall (?) (Current) Tutor Moves: Note: Using HGSS move tutor system. Some of these will change due to redundancies with new TMs and whatnot. * indicates additions Air Cutter Ancientpower *Aqua Tail *Block *Dive *Heal Bell Icy Wind Mud-Slap Ominous Wind Signal Beam Sky Attack Snore Swift Tail Wind Twister Justifications: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Articuno_(Pok%C3%A9mon)/Generation_IV_learnset#By_leveling_up The page above will show you why Articuno needed a change. It is absolutely horrifying how a legend could end up so poor in performance, so Articuno was the one who needed this change out of all three of the birds. Anyhow, the role for Articuno will be clearly defined with this change from a shaky tank that got shafted by Stealth Rocks into a definite boosting tank with actual coverage. Because Articuno hails from Seafoam Islands, which is predominantly water, it seems only fair that Articuno has access to water moves, which will allow it some great coverage against the Rock and Fire Pokemon Articuno would have trouble hitting. Articuno was able to Heal Bell from Pokemon , but for some reason, HGSS move tutor denied it and Dragonite that move! Seriously now? Of course, the big problem is Articuno does not hit too hard and STAB Electric or Fire moves will bring it down in 2 hits. That's why we give it Calm Mind to bolster its Special stats so with enough of them, Articuno will become a mean stalling machine and have decent offences! Now should I give the other two birds Calm Mind? Does not seem likely, as only Articuno seems to be the most Calm of the three. If one wants to go the offensive route, Articuno has access to the rare Tail Glow, since it does have a tail. Unfortunately, in Japanese the name is Firefly Glow, so they gave it only to Volbeat for a reason (and Manaphy), but Articuno should definitely be able to use this, methinks, and to a great effect. Articuno is still stopped by its middling speed mind you, and anything with a Rock attack will put an end to its icy prowess, so it is still far from broken. It also cannot devote two whole moveslots to Agility and Tail Glow/Calm Mind because it will lack Roost, which is essential. Mono Ice Beam is going to suck unless you have the proper team support. However, it does not have to pretend to be something it isn't anymore and can actually pose a legitimate threat. Due to its prodigious tail, Articuno gains Iron Tail and Aqua Tail, though it's only for the sake of making sense, not really for utility. Power Gem is there because Articuno, the embodiment of ice, should be able to utilise crystals somehow as an attacking mechanism. Yes, it's a rock attack, but nonetheless, I don't see much wrong with it. Asides from that, Rock + Water + Ice makes a fine combination, only resisted by Empoleon if I remember correctly. Extrasensory because all birds received that on Pokemon . Flash Cannon is there because the Ice Cream can learn it... somehow makes sense if I think about it. However it might be off, so I don't know what to say. Not like it will have much use though... it will still be walled by Empoleon. I also allowed Articuno to learn water HMs, as I can see it taking a dip in the waters and swimming around, although it would much prefer to fly. Waterfall, however, I am not sure of, and might just get rid of that. Block though, has an interesting utility, and I'm sure Articuno is able to do so with its ice powers, trapping the foe. This will surely make all bulky waters cry and make Articuno a bigger force to reckon with, as they have no way to pass through a Subroost Articuno who intoxicated them. Mind you, that would mean Articuno would forfeit Ice Beam, making it a Taunt bait, but it is still a suggestion. I STILL don't believe they denied Dragonite and Articuno the Heal Bell move tutor. Nonetheless, this change makes Articuno much more versatile than before and it should not struggle with finding a slot in a party unlike the high risk low reward version that exists right now. The Articuno right now is a total joke for a legendary and it makes little sense to ever use it. I only use it because I like it, but more often than not it is a deadweight and requires more effort than it is worth to use. I don't get why Articuno gets no improvements over the generations while Zapdos keeps getting things unthinkable such as Heat Wave and an improved Lightningrod while Moltres's 100 base attack is a wasted stat. While Hydreigon is in the similar vein, it has a lot of physical attacks to use. Moltres does not... heck Zapdos was the one who got Drill Peck! That leaves Articuno with absolutely nothing. Yes, I'm well aware of the "legendaries must embody their own elements so they only get moves of their own typing" but explain Zapdos with Heat Wave. When all these birds got Heat Wave, it was an excuse for Zapdos to get it, as many of them have pitiful Special Attack, Moltres already had access to it naturally (and would use Flamethrower or Fire Blast anyways) and Togekiss also had access to Fire attacks. I'm sure it was all to buff Zapdos somehow. I'm of the belief they gave up on Articuno and went on buffing Suicune... but this I'm sure there are ways to make Articuno much more usable and live up to its name. Gen V additions: possibly Hurricane, though it wouldn't be able to use it much well, but if I did that, I'd have to give it to Zapdos too, and it would be much TOO effective. Cannot risk that. Meh, I guess Frost Breath and Sky Drop are the only notable additions. Reason why I cannot give Scald is because no Ice Pokemon (not even Water/Ice dual types) have access to it. I guess it is clear that such Pokemon can only use cold water, not burning types. What a shame, considering Articuno would use that very effectively, should it be able to do so. Also changing Dream World ability from Snow Cloak to Thick Fat. [hgsssprite]145[/hgsssprite] Zapdos 1 Peck 1 Thundershock 3 Thunder Wave 8 Agility 15 Detect 22 Drill Peck 29 Ancientpower 36 Metal Sound 43 Charge Beam 50 Roost 57 Light Screen 64 Extrasensory 71 Thunder 78 Discharge 85 Rain Dance 93 Baton Pass 99 Zap Cannon (Modified) TM / HM: Note: Base TM/HM system is HGSS's with slight alterations For simplicity sakes, I will not use Gen V attacks currently * indicates additions + indicates changed TMs TM05 Roar TM06 Toxic TM10 Hidden Power TM11 Sunny Day TM15 Hyper Beam TM16 Light Screen TM17 Protect TM18 Rain Dance TM24 Thunderbolt TM25 Thunder TM27 Return TM32 Double Team TM34 Shock Wave TM37 Sandstorm TM40 Aerial Ace TM42 Facade TM43 Secret Power TM44 Rest *+TM46 Extrasensory TM47 Steel Wing TM51 Roost *TM52 Focus Blast TM57 Charge Beam TM58 Endure TM68 Giga Impact TM70 Flash TM73 Thunder Wave TM82 Sleep Talk TM83 Natural Gift *+TM85 Heat Wave TM87 Swagger *+TM88 Air Slash TM89 U-turn TM90 Substitute *TM91 Flash Cannon HM02 Fly HM05 Defog HM06 Rock Smash (Current) Tutor Moves: Note: Using HGSS move tutor system. Some of these will change due to redundancies with new TMs and whatnot. * indicates additions Air Cutter Ancientpower Heat Wave Mud-Slap Ominous Wind Sky Attack Signal Beam Snore Swift Tailwind Twister Justifications: Though Zapdos doesn't need much changes, I'll be kind and so I added a few new moves. Extrasensory just because all the other birds get it. Though I loathe the fact I added an Air Slash TM, Zapdos gets it too if the other birds do. Flinch rate is horrendous though. Flash Cannon has little utility asides from sniping Rock Pokemon, but it still makes sense on an electric bird such as Zapdos. I don't see how it could not do it if it learns Metal Sound. Speaking of which, Metal Sound and Baton Pass are moves from Pokemon , but I allowed it to learn it naturally. Metal Sound has its uses as a pseudo Nasty Plot, allowing it to force Blissey out should that blob feel too comfortable switching in. I'm still iffy about Focus Blast, but that is there. Gen V Additions: It's already powerful enough in Gen V... meh. [hgsssprite]146[/hgsssprite] Moltres 1 Wing Attack 1 Ember 3 Morning Sun 8 Agility 15 Endure 22 Fire Spin 29 Ancientpower 36 Flamethrower 43 Air Slash 50 Roost 57 Safeguard 64 Extrasensory 71 Solarbeam 78 Brave Bird 85 Sunny Day 93 Flare Blitz 99 Hurricane (Modified) TM / HM: Note: Base TM/HM system is HGSS's with slight alterations For simplicity sakes, I will not use Gen V attacks currently * indicates additions + indicates changed TMs TM05 Roar TM06 Toxic TM10 Hidden Power TM11 Sunny Day *TM12 Taunt TM15 Hyper Beam TM17 Protect TM18 Rain Dance TM20 Safeguard TM22 Solarbeam TM27 Return TM32 Double Team TM35 Flamethrower TM37 Sandstorm TM38 Fire Blast *+TM39 Earth Power TM40 Aerial Ace *TM41 Torment TM42 Facade TM43 Secret Power TM44 Rest *+TM46 Extrasensory TM47 Steel Wing TM50 Overheat TM51 Roost *TM52 Focus Blast TM58 Endure TM61 Will-o-Wisp TM68 Giga Impact *TM80 Rock Slide (?) TM82 Sleep Talk TM83 Natural Gift *TM84 Poison Jab *+TM85 Heat Wave TM87 Swagger *+TM88 Air Slash TM89 U-turn TM90 Substitute HM02 Fly HM05 Defog HM06 Rock Smash (Current) Tutor Moves: Note: Using HGSS move tutor system. Some of these will change due to redundancies with new TMs and whatnot. * indicates additions Air Cutter Ancientpower *Earth Power *Endeavor Heat Wave Mud-Slap Ominous Wind Sky Attack *Superpower Snore Swift Tailwind Twister Justifications: This will have a lot of explanations to do. While Moltres is very effective and a scary monster right now, we all look at that 100 attack and wonder if Gamefreak just put it there for show or it is just trolling (since most Fire types had high attack rating back in Gen I but had nothing to abuse it with). Moltres was always shown as the most powerful of the three birds, but Zapdos was always the most efficient competitively due to circumstances. I'm not even sure if that is the way they intended it to be. Anyways, the new Moltres will be a lot more versatile than ever before, by being an efficient wallbreaker and finally having moves to utilise that 100 base attack power that is not named Sky Attack. Interesting choices include STAB Flare Blitz and even the new Brave Bird to boot! Superpower, though I was a bit iffy about it at first, seems to have many implications such as fighting that pink blob one on one. Many of the newer birds like Honchkrow and Staraptor seem to get similar moves anyways, so why does this legendary bird not get it? I'm still VERY iffy about Swords Dance, so I think I'll drop it because it might just break Moltres. However, keep in mind 100 base attack isn't as nearly as impressive as I make it sound, but at least give Moltres a way to go mixed or use its 100 attack in some way without making it feeling envious of Zapdos for getting that 100 in the right place! Since Moltres comes from the volcano, I only thought Rock Slide and Earth Power would be appropriate moves for Moltres, making it even more dangerous than before. Then we also have Taunt and Torment, which allows Moltres to completely break stall, allowing for interesting Taunt sets. However, Moltres's speed of 90 is not enough for some things, like Gliscors that are faster. Endeavor is there only because it learns Endure naturally, but it really does not take much advantage of it. It would be useful if Moltres had a priority attack to abuse it with, but I don't see that happening. I just hope I did not break it. Well, it will still go down like a cinderblocks should it remain out in battle long enough, but Moltres does have the right to be extremely dangerous anyhow. Things like Typhlosion and Charizard (no offence even though I love them) should not be as powerful as Moltres. Focus Blast for the lulz, but why not? Positive energies; Fire and Electric. They just love making stuff embody a certain element and leave it that way, but Moltres is more than that, and this change should prove its flames are more than the meets the eye. Gen V Additions: Wild Charge! Hey, all the other fires not named Entei gets it, so why not? Work Up should be available for Moltres as a crazy set upper I think. Flame Charge will be very useful, but Moltres might not be able to find a slot for it. So again, what are your ideas on improving some Pokemon competitively without completely breaking them? Edited June 30, 2013 by wraith89
PokePoindexter Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 For this Pokemon: [HGSSSPRITE]197[/HGSSSPRITE] 01 Tail Whip 01 Tackle 01 Helping Hand 08 Sand-Attack 15 Pursuit 22 Quick Attack 29 Confuse Ray 36 Faint Attack 43 Foul Play 50 Last Resort 57 Mean Look 64 Screech 71 Moonlight 78 Guard Swap 85 Dark Void Abilities: Synchronize (If statused, foe gets afflicted with same condition) Magic Guard (Immune to indirect damage) TM Learnset: 06 Toxic 10 Hidden Power 11 Sunny Day 12 Taunt 15 Hyper Beam 17 Protect 18 Rain Dance 21 Frustration 27 Return 28 Dig 29 Psychic 30 Shadow Ball 32 Double Team 41 Torment 42 Facade 44 Rest 45 Attract 48 Round 49 Echoed Voice 66 Payback 67 Retaliate 68 Giga Impact 70 Flash 77 Psych Up 83 Work Up 85 Dream Eater 87 Swagger 90 Substitute 95 Snarl H1 Cut Justifications: Umbreon really got axed this generation with the nerf of Mean Look + Baton Pass, which was his only real seller in 4th generation (in fact, it's really the only selling point he's ever had). To make up for that miserable fate, I've proposed this new idea that Umbreon become one of the most annoying walls in the game. First, the addition of Foul Play works well against high-attack Pokemon (especially Gyarados, Salamence, and Haxorus, all of whom would take a nasty toll from this used against them). It still has some usage against other Pokemon too, considering most things in OU have a higher Attack stat than Umbreon, but most of them tend to have a resistance to Dark, so that's not too broken, methinks. Next, Dark Void. Now, what about this thing? Well, practically everything and its mother that used to be Uber-exclusive way back when has been brought down to the Standard scene, so this gives Umbreon a way of crippling Scizor and Conkeldurr with a Sleep-inducing move, thereby allowing Umbreon a chance to continue walling things or switch to Reuniclus, Volcarona, Ninetales, or something to take care of said Pokemon. Magic Guard is also there so Umbreon doesn't need to worry about hazards or damage from Toxic, Burn, Leech Seed, etc., which would give Umbreon a huge leg up on things that rely on said moves to do any kind of damage to the foe.
wraith89 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Posted February 15, 2012 Foul Play ftw. Someone who can actually use this properly would indeed be Umbreon (I found little use on other Pokemon with this). Hmmm I would have imagined Umbreon with Hypnosis more so than Dark Void... because Dark Void is Darkrai's specialty. (What Uber-exclusive attack was passed down to regulars might I ask?) Umbreon isn't known to cause Nightmares and stuff, though I wish Cresselia had something negating that or something, but she does not. I like the idea of Magic Guard though, seeing how Espeon got Magic Bounce, Umbreon should get its opposite. Though, that's a little scary because of Umbreon's monster defences. That ability (Magic Bounce) is too broken anyhow; it allows Espeon and Xatu to mess up certain Dark Pokemon like Umbreon and Mandibuzz. Great job!
PokePoindexter Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Well, what convinced me Dark Void would be appropriate was this dex entry: When darkness falls, the rings on its body begin to glow, striking fear into the hearts of anyone nearby. Although certainly the fact that its rings "glow" doesn't exactly make for total darkness. But certainly if Umbreon can cause nightmares, it would clearly be that way.
wraith89 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Posted February 15, 2012 It is true though that Umbreon (and Espeon) were able to learn Nightmare via TM50 in Gen II though. The only problem I have with Dark Void is that it is actually representative of a Black Hole or something of that sort (minus the physics of never returning) and when Darkrai used it in the anime, it was more like throwing an orb of purple stuff and anything that got sucked in went to sleep. I wish I could edit some Pokemon's base stats, but they're pretty permanent. *Stares at Onix who has lower HP and Attack than a Phanpy*
PokePoindexter Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Yeah, I guess Dark Void is out of place on Umbreon. Maybe Hypnosis instead. Foul Play certainly fits him better than any other current user; Krookodile and Zoroark should use their own Attack stats rather than relying on the opponent's. Got another one here: [HGSSSPRITE]038[/HGSSSPRITE] 01 Nasty Plot 01 Safeguard 01 Ember 01 Confuse Ray 01 Quick Attack 45 Morning Sun Yep. Just one addition, but it's a pretty significant one; Ninetales doesn't have any reliable healing options aside from Rest for it to use (with Drought, anyway). Morning Sun doesn't exactly do well under Sand or Rain, but if Ninetales can get the weather under its firm control, Morning Sun allows it to keep going long into the match (especially when you're using a Life Orb for sheer damage). It isn't overly broken, either, since Ninetales doesn't exactly have the best Defenses.
wraith89 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Posted February 16, 2012 Interesting. I did not think of that. Not only does Ninetales have Drought to abuse Morning Sun, but her friend Arcanine also gets it. It sounds interesting, and Moltres from Pokemon also received it with sun abuse in mind. I was thinking of Ninetales with Shadow Ball, though it's not because it helps her but more so because she's like those fox with ghost-like capabilities. [sprite]393[/sprite] Piplup 1 Pound 4 Growl 8 Bubble 11 Water Sport 15 Peck 18 Bubblebeam 22 Bide 25 Fury Attack 29 Brine 32 Whirlpool 36 Mist 39 Drill Peck 43 Hydro Pump [sprite]394[/sprite] Prinplup 1 Tackle 4 Growl 8 Bubble 11 Water Sport 15 Peck 16 Metal Claw 19 Bubblebeam 24 Bide 28 Fury Attack 33 Brine 37 Whirlpool 42 Mist 46 Drill Peck 51 Hydro Pump [sprite]395[/sprite] Empoleon 1 Ice Shard 1 Shadow Claw 1 Air Slash 1 Tackle 4 Growl 8 Bubble 11 Swords Dance 15 Aerial Ace 16 Metal Claw 19 Bubblebeam 24 Swagger 28 Guillotine 33 Brine 36 Aqua Jet 39 Flash Cannon 46 Autotomise 52 Ice Beam 59 Avalanche 64 Hydro Pump Hereditary Moves Agility Aqua Ring Bide Brave Bird* Double Hit Featherdance Flail Hydro Pump Icy Wind Mud-Slap Mud Sport Recover* Refresh* Snore Supersonic Yawn Didn't do much (in fact did nothing at all) except change their level up moves... because Torterra and Infernape get awesome level up moves as they progress, but Empoleon got mega trolled. This might make playing through Empoleon a bit easier without the aid of TMs/HMs (though Surf is a requirement and you know it!). Since Empoleon's a penguin, it is going to learn a lot of Ice moves naturally... or at least it should. Oh right, the thread is about competitive battling. I just added Autotomise for fun because it lowers Grass Knot and Low Kick's damage output vs the penguin (the latter is super effective) along with combining Agility's effect! Besides, this would mean Empoleon sheds some unnecessary part of its body... erm, maybe its metal plating on its flippers or something. God knows what everything else is shedding when they use Autotomise anyhow. I'm contemplating Air Slash and Earth Power someplace maybe as hereditary move or something... Ice Shard is an alternative priority move to Aqua Jet, though neither of the two ever sees use. Guillotine is for fun because it's Empoleon, based off Napoleon, who didn't really use the guillotine, but the era in France that preceded him did employ it. Recover and Refresh are a bit tempting to put in as hereditary moves or something. After all, this guy's resistances are plenty, though his three weaknesses are INCREDIBLY common, which is a major turn-off. Brave Bird is for the lulz, since Blaziken got it, and I see Empoleon on a suicidal dive towards its foes quite often. Not like anyone will use a physical Empoleon...
PokePoindexter Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Empoleon tobogganing into an opponent as a battle move sounds wickedly cool. Here's another: [HGSSSPRITE]330[/HGSSSPRITE] New typing: Bug/Dragon New Stats: 84/105/80/45/80/126 Movepool Changes/Additions: 73 Speed Bug* TM/HM: 62 Acrobatics *Speed Bug (New signature move; maybe needs a better title): Bug-type version of Sucker Punch (80 Power, 100 Accuracy, +1 Priority, fails if foe not intending to do damage that turn) Flygon's existence has been largely ignored in this generation's shift, and he is now one of a growing number of Pokemon that have gotten consistently less useful over the course of time (others in this list include Tauros, Umbreon, Milotic, Claydol, Snorlax, and Jynx). I don't care what anyone says, but Flygon being added to this list is a complete travesty, and his awesomeness MUST be preserved. Although it's certainly unlikely that we're going to be able to change his typing (let alone his stats), if they could be changed, these are how I would change them. This way, he has a bit more attack power and enough Speed to troll on Weavile. Speed Bug is for similar reasons; it's a Bug-type priority move that allows it to deal with Weavile in modern UU, and give significant beatings to Tyranitar, Reuniclus, and Alakazam in OU. Acrobatics allows him to hit Conkeldurr and other Fighters. I'd have also given Flygon Magic Guard, but decided not to, as that would make him REALLY broken, much more so than Umbreon would be.
Lorshinator Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Here's the pokemon I chose... Pokemon #1 Originally on my hated list, Emboar now is one of my more beloved Pokemon, as I grew to love it's design. Aside from my personal liking to it however, Emboar is plagued with problems. A lackluster move pool and poor level-up moves, and a lack of any defence to back up it's high HP, there's really not much reason to use it over Infernape or Blaziken. Here's some of the things I considered: I put a * by the things changed... 1 Ember 1 Hammer Arm 1 Odor Sleuth 1 Tackle 1 Tail Whip 3 Tail Whip 7 Ember 9 Odor Sleuth 13 Defense Curl 15 Flame Charge 17 Arm Thrust 18 Bite* 20 Chip Away* 23 Rollout 28 Take Down 31 Heat Crash 38 Assurance 40 Fire Punch* 43 Flamethrower 47 Drain Punch* 50 Head Smash 55 Roar 62 Crunch* 65 Flare Blitz Here's what I considered for level-up moves: The order is debatable as I didn't give it much thought, but it was primarily to give it certain moves. Here are my justifications: Bite - Bite is not a very powerful move, so it's purpose competitively is minimal. Otherwise, it is an early, yet effective, move for Tepig/Pignite to learn while they travel and train throughout Unova with the trainer. It could be used after some bulk ups, but otherwise, it's not a very strong move, so using it only while playing through the story is advised. Chip Away - Very questionable indeed, but gives Emboar a neat attack to use after he sets up shop with bulk up or whatever. Since it has no STAB, it's less useful than the likes of storm throw, but that move is unique to Throh. Chip Away allows him, however, to pinpoint a weakness and hit hard after a good bulk-up battle in particular. Either way, it definitely beats smog, which is a move no sane person would use competitively or in the field. Fire Punch - Black POKEDEX: "It can throw a fire punch by setting its fists on fire with its fiery chin." No it can't! This is mainly just an issue about the canon, as most people would probably choose the almighty flare blitz over this move, especially with it's DW ability reckless, but it's a bit odd that it's pokedex states that it can use fire punch, whereas in game it cannot. It's a safer alternative for those worry warts out there, and provides Emboar with a move that is efficient and reliable. Most importantly, however, it is not really wise to state something it can't do on the Pokedex. I'm certain Emboar isn't the only one, but it's still ridiculous, considering his already small-ish movepool. Drain Punch - Perhaps one of my more desired moves, I once thought of a set with Bulk up/Flame Charge/Drain Punch/Filler, but unfortunately, it cannot learn that move. Why? You get pokemon that really do not need the move due to their extreme power, or others which are already very frail or get an ability that allows them to heal when they switch, but you leave the slow, lumbering pig with arm thrust? Screw you. Aside from that, Emboar kind of needs this move. His only two worthwhile fighting moves are hammer arm, which is inaccurate, and super power, which weakens him. I mean seriously? I suppose that Emboar is supposed to be about risks, but a plethora of pokemon can learn this move, and because it's no longer a TM this guy can't be one of them? I find that really stupid. Battle wise, although it's not too strong, it would certainly be a lovely addition, and would only reinforce Emboar's "bulky fire starter" gimmick. Crunch - Pigs are nasty. Boars are nastier. Emboar's nastiest. Boars bite. And Emboars don't bite, they crunch you up! (I at least wish they did). Considering his already mediocre bulk and poor speed, I didn't think this move would be illegal. Emboar can already learn some interesting moves, such as Scald and Wild Charge, so I think Crunch wouldn't be too far from the group. Crunch would be an amazing move, and with flame charge, it would allow him to counter some pesky psychic types who previously could outrun him, or just deal a lot of damage to them. It would also help against ghosts as well. Aside from that, it clearly wouldn't break Emboar, as usually you would have Emboar retreat if it spotted a psychic type. It certainly wouldn't take out Slowbro, unless you set up. All in all, I think this move, while it would really help Emboar, it would not break it by any means, it would just give it better coverage. Egg move/Tutor move: Zen Headbutt - Yeah, I'm getting a little crazy with these, but seriously, Rampardos got it, some other pokemon get it, and I find Emboar could've used it too. While it certainly doesn't give it the "calm" vibe, it certainly would make sense due to it's "slam" nature (Head Smash, Body Slam, heavy moves here). It would also allow Emboar to fight other fighting types with a move for coverage. It's not strong and perhaps not recommended, as wild charge would take it's place, perhaps. However, it would be neat, and definitely give Emboar more options. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Although I'm probably going a little deeper, I also wouldn't mind his base stats changing, but not by a whole lot. HP: 110 ATK: 123 DEF: 85* SP ATK: 75* DEF: 65 SPD: 65 Reasons: The Tepig family was highly anticipated before the game was launched as being a bulky fire starter, but all we got was a slightly tougher yet still somewhat frail pokemon with very high attack, but with only above average special attack. If Emboar was given more defence to compensate, it would become the "bulky" starter. It's not too bulky, still, but it's definitely going to take a few hits, and with bulk up, it'll become a monster on the battlefield. However, Emboar, like most pokemon, have a weakness, which is obviously his special defence. He cannot increase his special defence, which is a plus for balance. Overall, I do not think that Emboar, with all of these changes, would be anywhere near broken, but it would make him very effective. He's not too slow either, for a bulk, so that's neat. Also, despite special attack being lowered, it's not terrible, and with fire blast it could still hurt. However, Emboar I find would've been the perfect example of a dedicated fire starter (dedicated to attack), and he would have the moves and attack to back him up. I think Emboar should've been the pain train out of the fire starters, slow but strong and tough, with good coverage. Considering the already beast fighting types we have out there, I don't think Emboar would still break into the OU tiers. Considering his low special defence, walls like Slowbro will still take a crunch (they can survive a Durant's X-Scissor), and easily counter it. It'll still have walls, walls which are still in the UU environment. However, I really hoped Emboar would be the fire starter which would've stood out. It does, but not for good reasons... Thoughts? Edited March 4, 2012 by Lorshinator wasn't done, it automatically went' blagrh
Klaatu Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 I see Tail Glow for Articuno in the first post... Long ago I have been wondering why on earth Ampharos, whos tail works as a lighthouse, never got that. Then I found out its japanese name is along the lines of Firefly Light.... First thing I'd insist on if I was anywhere near Gamefreak would be adjusting something much more basic than individual pokemon: "Summary of the changes and reasoning: --Ice resistant to Water attacks Ice desperately lacks resistances --Steel weak to Electric attacks Steel is far to good even with this Electric is one of the few types, strong only against 2 --Grass attacks neutral on Bug There's just too many types that resist Grass, and Bug is the only one where it's not a big deal --Ghost weak to Psychic attacks Why not? Ghost is the second best defensive type and Psychic could use a third advantage. Note they're strong both ways. --Poison attacksneutral on Ghost Ghost still defensively great With this Poison is only low against 3 types, still doing nothing to 1 --Dark weak to Poison attacks Poison desperately needs more advantages than over Grass Dark can deal with another weakness --Normal weak to Poison attacks Another buff to Poison on the offense, still far from making it a great attack type, but Normal doesn't become crap, and besides, it makes lots of sense, at least to me. --Ice resistant to Ground attacks Ice still an awful type that cannot switch in on anything safely. This one would realy help. Ground is one of the 2 best offensive types anyway. --Ice resistant to Dragon attacks And with this Ice is finally on par with the other not so good defensive types (Grass & Psychic), while Dragon is still one of the better offensives. --Rock resistant to Rock attacks Rock is the other one of the best 2 offensive types, so if Ground gets a nerf, Rock should too. Rock could use this resistance well, especially this one as it lowers Stealth Rock damage. And it makes perfect sense to resist itself seeing that Steel does the same. --Grass attacks neutral on Flying this would finally take it out of the worst attacking type situation. Flying doesn't mind. Gyara...does, but hey What's left now that sticks out the most is: -On the defense, Grass, Psychic and Bug are now the worst defensively but not that bad -On the offense, it's as balanced as possible. -And Steel is still in it's own league, the superior defensive type. So essentially it's balanced, except for steel being the best type. I couldn't figure out changes that would address these without changing relations that just feel correct, so this wouldn't be perfect, but closer than the current chart. It would fix the main issues." This would even things out a bit. Just imagine, suddenly, "defensive" and "Ice type" can be used in the same sentence outside of jokes. Some could actually switch into Earthquakes o___O After that, I wouldn't mind if they took a look specifically at some of the older pokes again. There was too many hybrids statwise, Pidgeot, Nidos etc etc.. who are horribly outshadowed by current standards. But there is even some types that seem like obvious choices but simply aren't there: Golduck - Water / Psychic Gastly/Haunter/Gengar - Ghost / Dark (apart from not learning a single Poison move but tons of Dark ones, this line has been THE promoter of night-time exclusive encounter since GS. I'm sure that would have been it's type if it was released at a later time) Pinsir - Bug / Fight (It needs a purpose to live. I used one in HGSS because I felt sorry for it. And look at that moveset O_O) Gyarados - Water / Dragon Beartic - Ice / Fight (I still don't get it.) The following ones I don't feel as confident about: Ninetales - Fire / Psychic Milotic - Water / Dragon Seviper - Poison / Dark Banette - Ghost / Dark Huntail - Water / Dark Gorebyss - Water / Psychic Luxio/Luxray - Electric / Dark Gothita/Gothorita/Gothitelle - Psychic / Dark Oh dear, I did not intend to add Dark to everything e___e The third thing I would do if I was in charge.. GIVE FLAREON ITS DAMN FLARE BLITZ. Like seriously lol.
The Guarding Guard Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 I'd make Ninjask and Serperior have more awesome stats. What exactly? I'm too lazy to calculate...
Lorshinator Posted April 10, 2012 Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Ninjask is decent enough, but I suppose that Serperior could have higher defences... Yeah I'm not sure either. I'll get back to you on that one. >.< Edited April 10, 2012 by randomspot555
Leaf Dragoon Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 yeah umbreon needs foul play that way you can breed it with an attack reducing nature and an attack IV of 0! btw for the love of god flareon and entei need flare blitz, especially flareon because of it's massive attack, and of course lets not not forget to give jolteon electro ball.
wraith89 Posted April 11, 2012 Author Posted April 11, 2012 @ Klaatu: I made that comment about Tail Glow as well. Even in Korean, it is called Firefly Glow. @ Leaf Dragoon: Entei received Flare Blitz via an event, but I still don't like that it is event exclusive. It also learned Extremespeed, Howl, and Crush Claw. Also, how is it that this little blue mudfish can provoke the earth to shake while Entei, the legendary beast embodiment of fire, cannot? I still do not understand how Entei is denied Earthquake! Entei would do well if they gave it the right physical moves, as Stone Edge alone is not enough to differentiate it from an uncommon yet ordinarily obtained Arcanine. I still don't believe Gamefreak for not properly adjusting legendaries. Just because they are of one element, does not mean they should completely be limited to that element! And yet they were perfectly okay lavishing away Heat Wave to Zapdos. I... just... cannot comprehend. Flareon with Flare Blitz, Jolteon with Electro Ball... that would be all mighty and swell, but what would Vaporeon learn naturally in that one extra slot they give for the Eeveelutions?
Gin Posted April 12, 2012 Posted April 12, 2012 Absol: A long time favorite of mine, Absol is a failure now. Shes pretty awesome because she rewards good decision making very heavily- you can sweep almost any teamm with good prediction, but shes 100% useless the minute you screw up But fixing her is ezpz: move her base defense stats from 65/60/60 to 85/80/80 and add a secondry typing of either ghost or steel to allow ez switchins and less punishing set up.
wraith89 Posted April 12, 2012 Author Posted April 12, 2012 Wow everybody is going around changing Pokemon's base stats. Maybe I should do that too! I think I'll do that for Tropius some other time; it's too underwhelming for something based off the mighty Mokele-Mbembe. Hmm.. I always thought Absol's problem was the speed, not the defences. 75 is okay, but not good enough to outpace everything, and you cannot depend on Sucker Punch all the time. Its movepool is not bad either, but yeah, it is too chancey. But hey, it is Absol, the Pokemon that is supposed to bring bad luck and you wielding it depends on how your luck turns out. </endlamejoke> You know, the Pokemon you are thinking of might just be Bisharp: a Dark/Steel with similar attack power and higher defence, has Sucker Punch, Swords Dance, and hurts in general.
Gin Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 That was my initial thought process, but I realized if I buffed the speed strongly, it would just be too squishy- or too strong, depending on how high the speed ended up. Then again, compared to Gen5 guys, I could probably give it dragon dance and base 110 speed and it'd be fine
SilentFox Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 Ariados. I would give it some ability and a larger move set. Give it some strong moves like toxic spikes and psychic and a new bug move that raises speed and special defense by stages
wraith89 Posted April 14, 2012 Author Posted April 14, 2012 Dragon Dance Absol sounds pretty cool... but it does not appear draconian. They ought to give it a signature move that raises its Attack and Speed stat, much like Gear Shift for Klinklang. Ariados already learns Psychic... NATURALLY. But with that low SpA rating it is of little use.
Klaatu Posted April 15, 2012 Posted April 15, 2012 @ Klaatu: I made that comment about Tail Glow as well. Even in Korean, it is called Firefly Glow.@ Leaf Dragoon: Entei received Flare Blitz via an event, but I still don't like that it is event exclusive. It also learned Extremespeed, Howl, and Crush Claw. Also, how is it that this little blue mudfish can provoke the earth to shake while Entei, the legendary beast embodiment of fire, cannot? I still do not understand how Entei is denied Earthquake! Entei would do well if they gave it the right physical moves, as Stone Edge alone is not enough to differentiate it from an uncommon yet ordinarily obtained Arcanine. I still don't believe Gamefreak for not properly adjusting legendaries. Just because they are of one element, does not mean they should completely be limited to that element! And yet they were perfectly okay lavishing away Heat Wave to Zapdos. I... just... cannot comprehend. Flareon with Flare Blitz, Jolteon with Electro Ball... that would be all mighty and swell, but what would Vaporeon learn naturally in that one extra slot they give for the Eeveelutions? Best I could think of when I was thinking about eeveelutions in particular, was Aqua Tail... http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:Saiph_charon btw, do you know if making Razor Wind Flying type would be out of question given its basis?
wraith89 Posted April 15, 2012 Author Posted April 15, 2012 Best I could think of when I was thinking about eeveelutions in particular, was Aqua Tail...http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:Saiph_charon btw, do you know if making Razor Wind Flying type would be out of question given its basis? Possibly, but it would have little utility on physically weak Vaporeon. Oh well. Although Vaporeon is good enough as it is, so it will not matter. I think... they should just teach that move to Sneasel and Weavile. I also think they should just revamp the whole move Razor Wind in general. While it sounds cool, threatening, and given to a couple of powerful Pokemon (and as Floatzel's ultimate attack in Gen IV), it is a horrendous competitive move and they have done nothing to improve on it much... at least change its base power to 140 or something if it requires a charge up! Also a lot of Flying Pokemon learn Razor Wind, so I don't see why not. I was wondering about Normal type Razor Wind: Gust was changed accordingly from Gen I to II, and so were some other moves like Karate Chop and the likes...
Lorshinator Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 Hmm, interesting idea, but sounds a little too powerful for something like that. ._.
wraith89 Posted April 19, 2012 Author Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Just letting you know: [sprite]262[/sprite] Mightyena stats: 70/90/70/60/60/70 [hgsssprite]168[/hgsssprite] Ariados stats: 70/90/70/60/60/40 Look at that: the only difference between the two is speed. I think both of them need an evolution or something. I want a Spider-Man coloured spider so I could nickname him Spider-Man after my favourite superhero Ariados needs a better Bug STAB attack than Bug Bite. It has Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch... maybe it can get a Bug priority move also. However, it has its own niche and worked pretty well in Ubers as an anti-lead vs. Deoxys and Darkrai. Other than that, it is one of those Bug Pokemon meant to be at the bottom of the food chain unfortunately. But that does not explain why they created Galvantula > Now forget Ariados.. what about its counterpart Ledian? Mightyena, on the other hand... come on, are they serious? Some ferocious thing based off a wolf, or a hyena, or a jackal, or whatever, happened to have very underwhelming stats, a limited movepool (not even access to Pursuit), and overall not very competitively viable. They tried by adding elemental fangs in, but then again, a lot of things with teeth has access to that as well. It is a lot like Liepard: early game Dark Pokemon with very little potential. But at least Liepard has Prankster from Dream World and some support moves; Mightyena has nothing to show off. Just evolve the thing already There are other things that are not as powerful as they look, such as Onix or Tropius. Mind telling me how this giant rock snake has less HP and Attack than a Spearow? And what about Delcatty? You evolve this cat with a Moon Stone to turn out into this very middling Pokemon with incredibly low stats. Sure it has a great movepool but so do every other normals out there. I don't know what to say anymore. Hitmonchan, also, has no real specialisation, as Hitmonlee is better than it in every ways but defence, but Hitmonchan's defence is a lost cause because it is not all that great. Besides, Hitmontop has better defences AND Intimidate. Hitmonchan's Pokedex says how fast it is, but Hitmonlee is faster? Even worse is when it was first released until Gen III... it could not use its signature Elemental Punches properly due to that 35 special attack! Once the attack split came in Gen IV... the other fighters were able to do more damage... and then some, since they could all do the same thing Hitmonchan could do. Forgot to add that Hitmonchan is the only Hitmon that cannot Sucker Punch. How ironic. I know Sucker Punch is not a real punch, and Hitmonchan plays honourably, but still... that's very awkward. Too many Pokemon... with competitive flaws... I know Pokemon were not all made equally, and I like it that way. But some were just unfair. Really unfair. Edited April 19, 2012 by wraith89
PokePoindexter Posted April 20, 2012 Posted April 20, 2012 Well, if we're altering base stats as well, I'd rearrange those of a specific Eeveelution: Flareon: HP: 95Attack: 60 Defense: 65 Sp. Attack: 130 Sp. Defense: 65 Speed: 110 I've given up trying to get Flareon to gain access to Flare Blitz; ever since Darmanitan came, Flareon's last hope to be the best Physical Fire-type has gone.
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