VGC team lineup

[ReD_RoToM]

This is my feeble attempt at a competitive team for the VGC in philly. any advice would be great. Hold items are not chosen yet and any info would be cool.

Garchomp

Jolly

Sand Veil

Hp:6;At:252;Speed:252

Physical Sweep

-Dragon Claw

-Aerial Ace

-Fire Fang

-Shadow Claw

Hippowdon

Carefull

Sand Stream

Hp:6;Def:252;SpDef:252

Sandstream Wall

-Slack Off

-Yawn

-Rock Slide

-Crunch

Armaldo

Carefull

Battle Armor

Hp:2;At:252;Def:128;SpDef:128

Physical Tank

-Rock Slide

-X-Scissor

-Aerial Ace

-Metal Claw

Lucario

Timid

Steadfast

Hp:6;SpAtt:252;Speed:252

Special Sweeper

-Aura Sphere

-Dragon Pulse

-Dark Pulse

-Water Pulse

Magnezone

Calm

Sturdy

Hp:6;Def:252;SpDef:252

Special Wall

-Discharge

-Flash Cannon

-Metal Sound

-Magnet Rise

Omastar

Calm

Shell Armor

Hp:2;Def:128;SpAtt:252;SpDef:128

Special Tank

-Water Pulse

-Icy Wind

-Earth Power

-Sandstorm

Well thats it. Figure im trying to go a little heavier on the D than the standard. lookin forward for responces

[randomspot555]

You should use items.

[Illithian]

Edit: Please disregard most of the info in this rate. Some may be useful, but most of it would be far more useful and informative in singles, not doubles. I forgot that this was doubles in the middle of writing the rate.

Garchomp: =| Thats a weird set. You're much better off with a Swords Dance set. Try:

Garchomp @Yache Berry/Life Orb

Jolly | Sand Veil

4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Swords Dance / Dragon Claw / Fire Fang / Stone Edge

Also, he's a bad lead. See below.

Hippowdon: Needs to be your lead as Garchomp doesnt do anything for you as a lead. Not only that but your set isn't really going to be useful at all because neither Rock Slide nor Crunch offer any STAB options or reliable attacking power.

For a proper Hippowdon lead, you need Stealth Rock at the least. Earthquake is almost a nessesary inclusion, so you may want to consider pairing Hippo with Gliscor or someone with Levitate. Slack Off is fine, and Toxic would work nicely. Use 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD for EVs.

Armaldo: I honestly don't see the point of a "physical tank" when Hippowdon has way better defenses and utility movepool, not to mention Armaldo having one of the worst speeds in the game. Hes useless, take him out.

Lucario: Special Lucario is... bad and that set is disgusting. Specs, Agility, or Scarf Lucario would be SO much better. For Specs, use Aura Sphere / Shadow Ball / Hp Ice / Vacuum Wave. For Scarf, use Close Combat / Stone Edge / Dark Pulse / HP Ice. For Agility, use Agility / Close Combat / Dark Pulse / HP Ice.

Magnezone: Why would you use Sturdy... regardless, switch it for Magnet Pull to be able to use it for its only realistic purpose: To kill Bronzong, Metagross, and Skarmory. Use Substitute / Magnet Rise / Thunderbolt / HP Grass and abuse all of them to the fullest. Use Magnet Pull to trap Skarmories and OHKO or 2HKO them with T-bolt. Magnet Rise is anti-ground type moves, although Earthquake will be much less common in the double arena.

Omastar: That thing looks horrible... I'd like to comment on the moveset before I tell you to get rid of it. Omastar CAN'T be a Special Wall. It can be a PHYSICAL wall, but not a special wall. Secondly, Omastar is only UU because of Swift Swim and Shell Armor is half useless on it anyway. Water Pulse and Icy Wind are useless. Sandstorm is redundant because of Hippowdon and Earth Power is the only moderately okay move on the set. Not only that, but by definition a tank needs to be able to actually do something to an opponent, and that thing is a trashy piece of crap.

Instead, use a Blissey or something that can actually serve as a Special wall, okay?

P.S. Omastar ONLY works well on rain teams. Don't use him.

Edit: Yay I just noticed I'm an official Team Rater

Edited May 18, 2009 by Illithian

[Greencat]

A Sanstorm team doesn't always have to be resistant to Sand. Throw in a Zapados and take out Armaldo. Then add some items. Use sets from Smogon since they are usually well thought out and are great.

[randomspot555]

This is my feeble attempt at a competitive team for the VGC in philly. any advice would be great. Hold items are not chosen yet and any info would be cool.

Garchomp

Jolly

Sand Veil

Hp:6;At:252;Speed:252

Physical Sweep

-Dragon Claw

-Aerial Ace

-Fire Fang

-Shadow Claw

Hippowdon isn't as great of a Chomp partner as one thinks. It limits Garchomp's best option, his combination of STAB ground and dragon.

Your new Chomp set is this:

Garchomp w/ Choice Band

Jolly

Sand Veil

252 atk/252 speed/6 HP

- Earthquake

- Outrage/Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush

- Fire Fang

- Filler-kind of

Because Chomp gets the powerful STAB Dragon+Ground Combo, any partner of his has to be either part Flying, or have the Levitate ability. And currently, none of your team does that.

For Chomp's set:

Choice Band is the best option. If you want a good Choice Scarf user, Flygon gets the job done better than Chomp. Same typing, with Levitate, and can U-Turn out.

Other Chomp sets, like the SD set with Yache/Life Orb, may vary as far as move pool goes, but I believe they're inferior because of the set-up time. Chomp is one of those Pokes that doesn't need to set up, so just slap on a Choice Band and get to attacking. However, if you DO choose a non-Band set, consider slapping on Lum Berry. It can cure sleep, or cure you from confusion after Outrage.

Fire Fang is the recommended use. If you choose Flamethrower/Fire Blast to hit some of the bulky steels that usually invest in defense rather than special defense, choose a nature that doesn't hinder special attack.

• The fourth slot is VERY important, and can be used, and can be seen as rather gimmicky, but can save you in some situations. Chomp's movepool is rather limited, so it's move for it's 4th slot can be seen as not traditional, but it doesn't have a lot to work with anyway.
  
• One option is to have both Outrage AND Dragon Claw/Rush. This allows you to use STAB Dragon without being locked into Outrage, or target a specific Poke. You see this utilized often on Specs Dragonite or Specs Mence, who might use both Draco Meteor AND Dragon Pulse.
  
• Crunch is just another move to use. It won't do much more damage than STAB Dragon or STAB Ground, but might be useful for the 20% defense drop chance.
  
• Stone Edge has a high crit rate. Rock Slide has the flinch rate, useful due to Chomp's speed, and because it hits both targets.
  

Those are the more traditional options.

Non-traditional include the following (and please note, these are not recommended outside of the official tournaments. But these tournaments, as far as I've seen from the videos, are incredibly luck based, so you can afford to take a chance on these moves. These are obviously not recommended in the standard competitive environment):

• Aerial Ace: Flying type gets pretty crap coverage, but might be useful for the rare double team abuser.
  
• Body Slam: 30% chance to paralyze. There's no other reason to use this.
  
• Iron Head: Steel gets pretty poor coverage, but this has a 30% flinch rate.
  
• Protect: If used in conjunction with an Exploder. But this'll force a switch due to Choice Band, and there are better partners to use with an exploder.
  
• Poison Jab: Again, like Iron Head and Body Slam, poor coverage, but a chance to poison.
  
• Rock Climb: 20% chance to confuse.
  
• Rock Tomb: Lowers speed by one stage.
  
• Sleep Talk: If you can predict a sleep, use this.
  
• Toxic: If you're up against a bulky water who doesn't have Ice Beam, or you're about to die anyway, this'll help inflict some long lasting damage.
  

Yes, there are other sets you can run, but in the tournament environment, it's very quick based. And I don't personally think that Chomp can spare the time to set up Swords Dance or Sub or whatever. Maybe the other Poke can, but not Chomp. Just Band it and let it attack.

So what does this all mean? You need to re-do some of your team. You need at LEAST one partner for Chomp that levitates or is part flying. The other option is to not use Chomp at all.

Assuming you need a levitate/flying suggestions, here are some suggestions. No specific sets posted, but I will if you end up using them:

Flygon: Immune to Earthquake, can U-Turn out to someone else. Thunder Punch and Fire Punch can help cover some weaknesses, and can offer limited team support with Screech and Attract. Can also Toxic-Stall with Dig or Fly. Downside is it offers the same two weaknesses chomp has: Ice and Dragon.

Bronzong: Levitates, sets up screens, is bulky. It's attack stats are decent enough that it usually doesn't need to invest EVs into either,but can Calm Mind up if it does. And due to it's bulk, it's one of the few users of Hypnosis that can still use it because it can afford to miss. But it's usually used as an Explode poke, so that won't be the best option available unless you KNOW Chomp is going to die anyway. Oh, it can also Trick and make your opponent hold some useless item like the Macho Brace.

Zapdos: Earthquake immune, recovers from Roost. Discharge hits both opponents and might raise it's special attack. Can U-Turn out. Limited team support with Thunder Wave, Toxic, Light Screen. Has an ice weakness, but it doesn't cripple it like it does with Chomp.

Skarmory: Immune to earthquake, can Roost away damage. Team support includes stealth rock, spikes, toxic, whirlwind/roar. Can set up sandstorm and is immune to it. However, it's attack stat is only average and won't do too much damage unless it carries swords dance. And Stealth Rock/Spikes isn't as useful in doubles because switching isn't too common. Not recommended.

Gengar: Gengar is awesome. Levitate so it's immune to Earthquake. Specs it and let it sweep with Chomp. Leftovers (with some HP EVs) can let it sub up and fire off Will O Wisp, Hypnosis, Confuse Ray or Toxic and utilize Focus Punch. It can carry out the deadly Focus Sash-Counter-Destiny Bond strategy. It can also explode, but who cares? It can also carry Trick, usually using a Choice Scarf, but other options are available.

Shedinja: DON'T START OFF WITH SHEDINJA. Otherwise, your opponent will use all their power to keep their Shedinja counters alive. But it's a good late game partner for Chomp. Immune to Earthquake, limited team support with access to Toxic, Will O Wisp, and Confuse Ray. Kind of sucks at attacking, but can Swords Dance. Can use Trick, but not the safest bet with Shedinja.

Togekiss: Immune to EQ. Huge on team support with some good base defensive stats. Access to both screens, Wish, Toxic, and so much more. Chomp's Rock Slide + Toge's Air Slash or Thunder Wave can be used for ridiculous flinch rates. However, Togekiss is quite slow. You'll either need to Thunder Wave first to speed up, or Scarf it and just Air Slash away.

Salamence: Carries the same weaknesses as Chomp does + Rock, but gives you team support with Intimidate. Not recommended to start with.

Gyarados: Largely fills the same role as Salamence, with less of a move pool. But it also gets Taunt.

Dragonite: Dragonite gives you elemental punches, Superpower, and support in the form of Light Screen, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Safeguard, and Attract. But carries the same disadvantages as Salamence. Not recommended when the battle first starts.

Hippowdon: Starts up sand storm, but isn't immune to Earthquake. You can start with him if you're 100% certain you won't be using EQ as Chomp's attack.

Any Poke who resists Earthquake can also be considered, but Chomp's EQ is so powerful that I don't recommend it.

This doesn't mean your entire team has to be immune to Earthquake, but at LEAST one Earthquake immunity should be used each time you select 4 Pokemon to battle with.

And for some general advice for the official tournaments:

The big strategies in the video game tournaments involve mass sleeping (Dark Void Choice Scarf Smeargle), Exploding (one explodes, other uses protect or his a ghost type), and Chomp+whatever (usually Zapdos, uses Discharge, while Chomp uses EQ). Also, Trick Room is quite common.

Switching isn't nearly as common. So unless you are forcing a switch with Roar/Whirlwind, Spikes and Stealth Rock aren't nearly as useful.

So you now have a decision. Either re-vamp your team so Chomp can play, but not damage others (and to counter the above mentioned strategies). Or take Chomp off and replace it.

Alternatively, you can use Chomp as a support Poke rather than a lead, and Scarf it so it can revenge kill. But you should still have at least one levitator so Chomp won't hurt everyone.

[Illithian]

Sorry for my weak rate, I was very tired and I can't rerate atm. I'll do it later.

I agree with Randomspot; you need a usable EQ immunity to pair with Chomp to use him effectively in doubles. I highly reccomend Zapdos as it covers some water weaknesses in your team.

However, I dont think CBchomp is a good option for you. Chomp can be excellent as a baseline for your team, as a core attacker; CB seriously limits your options and can be crippling lategame when sacrificing a pokemon to use a different attack is devastating. I highly recommend Life Orb CB for freedom of attack.

Finally don't pay any attention to most of my rate, it was suckish and I forgot it was doubles while writing it. I wrote it at 3am though so dont blame me... =| lol sorry

I'll do a full rate later, busy atm.