PDA

View Full Version : I just realized something regarding gender-exclusive pokemon.



clickitback
Jun 14th, 2009, 02:25 AM
If you randomly generate a Vespiquen in pokesav, there will be a 87.5% chance it will be illegal.

Why? Vespiquen evolves from female Combee only. Since there is no way to obtain a legit Vespiquen in the wild, all Vespiquen's must have been female Combee's at one point. Since a pokemon's PID never changes, 87.5% of Combees can never become Vespiquen's.

This means that even though Vespiquen is an all-female species, it must have a gender number that corresponds to a female Combee (roughly 12.5% chance).

Same thing with Gallade's and Froslass'. All Gallade's come from male Ralts or Kirlia, and all Froslass' come from female Snorunt. If you randomly generate a PID for Froslass or Gallade, there's a 50% chance it will be invalid.

As far as I'm aware of, the legit checker DOES NOT detect this.

Pokemon whose entire evolutionary lines are gender-exclusive are not affected. Blissey can have any PID because Happiny and Chansey are also 100% female.

KazoWAR
Jun 17th, 2009, 03:55 AM
I would suggest generating the PID in Pokesav using either a Snorunt, a Kirlia, or a Combee with the correct gender, then change the Pokemon to the corresponding evolution.

Eon-Rider
Jun 17th, 2009, 07:47 AM
I suppose no one has ever bothered mentioning this because most people simply make hatched Pokemon where the PID does not matter.

Gold88
Jun 17th, 2009, 07:53 AM
Indeed with an hatched the gender number is always ok. We've just to pay more attention if we wanna make a wild pokemon ;).

Jiggy-Ninja
Jun 17th, 2009, 10:30 AM
He's not talking about PID <-> IV relationships, he's talking about Pokemon whose pre-evolutions have different gender ratios than evolutions, and can only evolve from one of those genders.

Off the top of my head, evolution lines affected by this are: Ralts, Burmy, Snorunt, and Combee.

To use the Ralts line as an example:

If you use Pokesav to generate a PID for a Gallade, it will generate PIDs based on the assumption that Gallade is an all Male species (which is what is programmed into the game). That assumption is true, but the pool of possible PIDs for Gallade is restricted by the fact that Gallade must evolve from a Male Kirlia, and Kirlia are not 100% Male.

A PID that makes a female Kirlia would make a Male Gallade, and it would look legit on the outside, but it would not be legit because it is absolutely impossible for Female Kirlia to evolve into Gallade. Thus, if you generate a PID for a Gallade using Pokesav, there is a 50% change that it is illegal (ie, it corresponds to a Female Kirlia). If you generate the PID for a Male Kirlia and change the species to Gallade after wards, the PID will be legal.

This has nothing to do with PID<->IV relationship, and nothing to do with whether the Pokemon is hatched or wild. It's a fundamental restriction on the kinds of PIDs these Pokemon can have that is tied to their method of evolution.

This is an important example of why it is important to understand the nature of what you are dealing with, and especially important to not to sound authoritative about subjects that you don't fully understand (a mistake I believe the above two posters are making). Tools are only as perfect as the person (or people) that made them. Sabersite, while quite intelligent, has imperfect knowledge about Pokemon. Thus, legit.exe will be imperfect in some ways. Legit.exe is not the end-all-be-all of legality. It's constantly changing to incorporate new information. All it can detect is whether or not a Pokemon is legal based on our current knowledge.

As a short term solution, KazoWAR's method works. As a long term solution, PPSE and legit.exe will probably have to code these Pokemon in as special cases or something like that.

Gold88
Jun 17th, 2009, 03:52 PM
For wild pokemon that's right, since there's a 50% chance to find an illegal PID with a female gender number, impossible for gallade. However if i try to make a legal hatched Gallade, or also e legal hatched Kirlia ( both male), they always a right gender number (240+) and same male PID. I guess that's a point of legality. How could you explain this ?

Jiggy-Ninja
Jun 17th, 2009, 07:54 PM
If you generate a PID for a Male Kirlia, that's fine. But if you have the species set to Gallade, there's a possibility of generating a PID with an illegal gender value.

I just tested this two, but generating some PIDs (Using "PID/IV" button) with Gallade selected as the species. The first had a gender value of DCh, the second 3Ch. Though I can't remember which, if given to a Kirlia one would be Male, and the other Female. One of these PIDs generated by Pokesav is illegal.

Same thing happens with the "Generate" button.

Derp
Jun 18th, 2009, 06:51 PM
Would Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Nidorino and Nidorina also be subject to this? Or not, since Pokesav APPEARS to treat the male and female versions of Nidoran like two separate species?

Gold88
Jun 18th, 2009, 07:25 PM
No, since their gender ratio through the evolutions is the same ;)

Jiggy-Ninja
Jun 21st, 2009, 06:09 PM
Would Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Nidorino and Nidorina also be subject to this? Or not, since Pokesav APPEARS to treat the male and female versions of Nidoran like two separate species?
They are two separate species.