T7NTR

[EchoLandon]

Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Snow Cloak

EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Ice Shard

- Avalanche

- Earthquake

- Stealth Rock

Bulky lead mamo can kill other leads, including aerodactyl, roserade, swampert on occasion, and gyarados. (I have seen lead gyarados before.) Ice shard is when he can't take another hit. Avalache is for when he can. Earthquake is for when he is faster. I can even withdraw him for future use, unlike many other leads which die and cannot be reused.

Heatran (M) @ (No Item)

Trait: Flash Fire

EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk

Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Flamethrower

- Earth Power

- Flash Cannon

- Hidden Power [Electric]

Possibility. May change. His main job will be to kill steel types in general and partner with Starmie, Scizor, and Dragonite for type synergy.

Flamberge (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Technician

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Bug Bite

- Swords Dance

- Bullet Punch

- Roost

Bulky scizor/revenge killer. Not much to say here. I sacrifice speed for bulkyness and roost-dance. Or If I can't afford to roostdance I attack with bullet punch and bug bite. This kills pokemon remarkably well, especially ones who were already weakened with ice shard or another pokemon. He is also a wall breaker.

Alexander (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Inner Focus

EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 12 Def / 184 Spd

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Dragon Claw

- Dragon Dance

- Roost

- Earthquake

I use him for set up sweeping. He can also attack right out. Very straitforward. Earthquake and Dragonclaw give great coverage.

Astra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Rapid Spin

- Ice Beam

- Thunderbolt

- Surf

Special sweeper. I may use rapid spin then switch if I am begin attacked by a hazard abuser. Bolt-beam give great coverage. Surf is a good stab move for anything not weak to elecritc or ice.

Goukazaru+ (Infernape) (M) @ Lum Berry

Trait: Blaze

EVs: 172 Atk / 192 Spd / 144 SAtk

Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)

- Earthquake

- Overheat

- Close Combat

- Grass Knot

This Infernape needs overhauling. I will change him. Im just not sure how. He used to be a physical infernape then I split him because I got killed by a skarmbliss. Now it seems too weak on both atk stats. I am not sure what I am going to do but I will do something to it. Close combat and overheat are obvious stab moves with great coverage. Earthquake is strong to steels and such. You can never have to many earthquakes. Grass knot kills swampert.

[Feralligates]

Might as well make that Infernape a Scarfer...

[EchoLandon]

and have 2 choice pokemon? 3 if I give heatran a scarf?

[randomspot555]

My suggestions in bold.

Tusk (Mamoswine) (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Snow Cloak

EVs: 252 atk/252 speed/6 HP

Jolly/Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Ice Shard

- Endeavor/Superpower/Stone Edge

- Earthquake

- Stealth Rock

There's really no point in slapping Focus Sash onto a lead AND investing heavily in both defenses. Mamoswine as a lead is much better off investing in Attack and Speed than defensive stats. And since Focus Sash guarantees it'll survive, utilize Endeavor.Avalanche is better suited on slower Pokemon who won't mind the -4 priority.

Even though Mamoswine has some decent defensive stats, it's typing doesn't do it any favors. However, unlike Aerodactyl, it can score a big hit with Endeavor after it lays down SR. That should be most lead's primary goal, getting down Stealth Rock nice and early. If you want a lead who can lay down SR and live throughout the game, Swampert, Metagross, and Bronzong are all excellent choices.

Heatran's set isn't doing anything that Starmie isn't already doing. Relatively pointless unless given some more thought,

Flamberge (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Technician

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Bug Bite/Brick Break/Night Slash

- Swords Dance

- Bullet Punch

- Substitute

Scizor is going to hate status, so get behind a Substitute and let Leftovers take care of the healing. Brick Break and Nightslash are alternatives to STAB Bug, since Bug doesn't have the greatest type coverage. Brick Break has the added benefit of hitting common switch ins like Magnezone and Heatran for super effective damage. won't be a OHKO with any of them (unless a SD or two is used first), but it's better than what happens on the current set.

A good Rapid Spinner is useful to have to avoid unnecessary SR damage.

He is also a wall breaker.

Which walls can your SD-Roost Scizor take care of?

Dragonite doesn't really seem to have much of a plan, and his set up will go to waste if Skarmory comes in.

I've run a Choice-RS Starmie before. It doesn't work. Starmie doesn't have the luxury of multi-tasking. Either use it as a sweeper, or add some bulk and use it as a status absorber and Rapid Spinner. It can't do both.

[Feralligates]

and have 2 choice pokemon? 3 if I give heatran a scarf?

It really doesn't matter if you have more than one Choice PKMN in a team so long as you know how to use them. Now I say more than one, but what I really mean is two, maybe three, not sure how a Choice Team would work, as I never ventured there.

And to be honest, Heatran seems out of place in this team.

[EchoLandon]

I know. Heatran is just there because I dont know what to put in his slot.

Hmmm. I am not sure how many of your suggestions to take. I'll take out rapid spin.

Scizor can take out Cress, snorlax, vaporeon, ect.

I think I'll try brick break but roost is too valueable in practice to get rid of.

Mamo gets hit heavily quite often. I am hesitant to run that set. It seems to me to be just another attackign mamo with SR slapped on.

[Tbird]

I feel the same as Feraligates. I think if you are going to run heatran + Infernape then Vaporeon might have to go into concideration to take the water type attacks. However, then you have a problem with dragonite if you lose your rapid spinner. However, as your starmie set goes it seems very ... erm, not right? locked into rapid spin with rotom running around all the place is going to suck, In which case the path isn't going to be cleared for dragonite anyway. Then again this is where roost comes in handy.

The way I see it is you need one guy to take the heat for scizor as it looks like he's your main sweeper. So pick infernape or heatran. After that you have dragonite who covers heatran/Infernape's ground weakness. However the water weakness remains, which would be better solved by vaporeon (running HP Electric for gyara). Mamoswine then happily covers the electric weakness and dragonite covers vappies grass weakness. That's 4 pokemon with great synergy already, so then the next thing to consider is dragonite's ice weakness, which can be handled by heatran/infernape. I think infernape works better here for it's mixed ability, I run would 64 EV's in attack and make it a special inclined mixed sweeper with CC for blissey. After this some nice defence could work wonders .

I would recommend forry but you don't really want another 4x fire weakness .

Meh my mind's dead now. But the four pokemon up there work nicely together, now you just need to cover holes/ break walls .

EDIT: On the Mamo note; I run EQ/Ice shard/Protect/SR. That set works wonders for me. It beats Aero/azelf leads, albeit it doesn't save you from being SR'ed. Similarly swampert and the leads you've listed fall to it to. AND you get luxury of scouting .

[Feralligates]

I know. Heatran is just there because I dont know what to put in his slot.

Hmmm. I am not sure how many of your suggestions to take. I'll take out rapid spin.

Scizor can take out Cress, snorlax, vaporeon, ect.

I think I'll try brick break but roost is too valueable in practice to get rid of.

Mamo gets hit heavily quite often. I am hesitant to run that set. It seems to me to be just another attackign mamo with SR slapped on.

Endeavor is meant to be used on switching PKMN (most of the time), as you are running SR. randomspot's EV spread suggestion is quite solid, considering the type of Mamoswine you're running. If Endeavor seems like such a remote idea, then you can either pick Superpower or Stone Edge.

Have you given the thought of adding Blissey to your team? Could be Heatran's replacement.

[randomspot555]

Scizor can take out Cress, snorlax, vaporeon, ect.

Cresselia isn't a common threat. Snorlax and Vaporeon won't be taken out without a SD or two up at the very least.

I think I'll try brick break but roost is too valueable in practice to get rid of.

You might see it that way, but SD Scizor is very weak to status. Sub helps with that. Otherwise you're looking at switching out often, which is something Scizor doesn't like to do.

And the reason to use Endeavor is exactly because Mamo gets hit heavily often. Otherwise, don't run Focus Sash. Run Leftovers.

[EchoLandon]

Alright...where to start....

My SD scizor doesnt work like other scizor do. I cant SD up to +6 without roost. Substitue would work but scizor isnt strong enough to keep putting up those subs to take the damage. I am fine with switiching out since scizor is okay without an SD. So I thinbk I'll go with vaporeon. I'll give it heal bell for the status.

I tried blissey. I didnt like it.

I'm still not sure about the mamoswine. Superpower lowers my stats and stone edge is only 80% accuracy. That's worse then hydro pump.

Avalanche has never really failed me. And what will I outspeed with those speed evs? Are there any common leads I will outpace?

Infernape was origonally physical inclined. How many atk evs will I need to ohko blissey after rocks?

[Tbird]

Alright...where to start....

My SD scizor doesnt work like other scizor do. I cant SD up to +6 without roost. Substitue would work but scizor isnt strong enough to keep putting up those subs to take the damage. I am fine with switiching out since scizor is okay without an SD. So I thinbk I'll go with vaporeon. I'll give it heal bell for the status.

Scizor doesn't need +6, and chances are you won't get there anyway, if you're opponent is letting you get to plus6 you need new opponents. +2/+4 is all you need really, and sub helps with that. Sub on the switch, swords dance, Bullet punch and then hope you can get another sub+Swords dance.

I'm still not sure about the mamoswine. Superpower lowers my stats and stone edge is only 80% accuracy. That's worse then hydro pump.

Earthquake gets stab and hurts a lot, and is nice with ice shard

The EV's in speed are just helpful later in the game as well as getting the jump on anything slower .. Such as metagross and heatran leads. (the latter is beat with a jolly nature)

Infernape was origonally physical inclined. How many atk evs will I need to ohko blissey after rocks?

64

Edit: forgot your mamo has EQ. Protect works, as does endeavour. Body slam can get you some paralysis support, Roar can work for later in game, Rockslide has better accuracy than Stone edge, and can flinch slower leads.

[EchoLandon]

Alright. I'll go 64. Perhaps replace overheat with flamethower since it lowers spatk and is only 90% accuracy.

And okay. I'll try the evs but if it doesnt work i'll switch back.

I'm still shaky about the subs. I could pass a vaporeon sub to scizor. Would that work?

[Tbird]

Alright. I'll go 64. Perhaps replace overheat with flamethower since it lowers spatk and is only 90% accuracy.

IMO the most devasting 'Ape set is

Infernape @ Life orb

Naive nature

64 Atk/ 192 SpAtk/ 252 Spe

Nasty Plot

Grass Knot

Fire Blast

Close combat

Try that out

[EchoLandon]

erm....not exactly my style. =/

Fire blast is too inaccurate and Im not sure I want 3 set up pokemon. How about this?

Infernape @ Lum berry (I need it to stop brelooms cold)

Naive nature

64 Atk/ 192 SpAtk/ 252 Spe

Vacuum Wave

Grass Knot

Flamethrower

Close combat

That way I have a secondary priority with ok type coverage (unlike the sparesly super effective bullet punch) thus I can revenge kill pokemon who are down to about 17%. Is there a special reaso why I need nasty plot?

[Tbird]

erm....not exactly my style. =/

Fire blast is too inaccurate and Im not sure I want 3 set up pokemon. How about this?

Infernape @ Lum berry (I need it to stop brelooms cold)

Naive nature

64 Atk/ 192 SpAtk/ 252 Spe

Vacuum Wave

Grass Knot

Flamethrower

Close combat

That way I have a secondary priority with ok type coverage (unlike the sparesly super effective bullet punch) thus I can revenge kill pokemon who are down to about 17%. Is there a special reaso why I need nasty plot?

Yes, to hurt things that are neutral and to be able to hurt things like vaporeon gyarados and starmie. Without nasty plot the set doesn't do a whole lot. Vacuum wave is a good move, but I don't think it belongs on this set ESPECIALLY without nasty plot. Infernape is a wall breaker, so it needs as much power as it can get to break said walls, hence why fireblast goes over flamethrower. Also if he's not got a life orb he will NEED that nasty plot.

Plus Infernape is really quite speedy, so the priority move is almost lost on him.

[EchoLandon]

Well I can do the nasty plot but the life orb and the fire blast I can't do. The extra power isn't worth the trade off. Infernape can't handle the free hits when he misses. And without the lum berry i'm not prepared for breloom.

[Tbird]

Hmm well I suppose at least you have nasty plot .

With fireblast however, you get a notable OHKO on dragonite after stealth rock. Which is actually going to be quite handy considering salamence has been booted to uber.

[Feralligates]

I have to tell you, and with all due respect, but you really need to change your outlook on attacks as far as competitive battling goes. Just because an attack lowers one of your stats (Superpower and Overheat in this case) and/or has low accuracy (Stone Edge and Overheat in this case) doesn't mean they are unusable. Moves like Superpower and Overheat are usually meant to be used with switching after using it in mind. Just as an example, with SP you can net an OHKO on Tyranitar, and dent Steel-types. I mean, your physical Infernape used Close Combat, right? The Def drops weren't a bother, I would assume, then? And inaccurate is an attack like Focus Blast, or Sing, or Zap Cannon for all that matters; 80-85% in accuracy doesn't mean you'll miss each time you choose an attack. Taking Fire Blast as an example, 4 out of the 5 times it can be use will hit, and honestly, that's anything but inaccurate. Every attack has its advantages and disadvantages, and that's called balance, which diversifies and enhances competitive play.

Also, you're trying to cover way too much. Isn't that what the team as a whole tries to do? 100% of the time you won't face a Breloom, so Lum Berry, while helpful indeed, isn't necessary. Sure, Infernape is frail as-is, but he IS fast, which makes Life Orb an obvious choice; you will need a single NP boost that way.

Anyways, just wanted to get that out of the system. I mean no disrespect.

PS: Vaporeon seems okay, although when it comes to healers, Blissey works best, but Vaporeon is bulky enough to support the team, plus it has the HP to pass Subs, if that's what you intend to do in the long run.

[EchoLandon]

And with all due respect to you, I will not change my perpective of the metagame to fit the way everyone else thinks. If anything, that diversifys the metagame.

I sm okay witht he def drops because I can keep sweeping afterwards. Switching is alright but Overheat's missing has cost me infernape's life. Superpower means I'll have to switch imediately which when I tried it, didn't work. The only time i needed that much power right now was when I fought set up leads. And it didnt do enough. They set up and beat me. I have to go which my own experiences as my main source of information.

And ya. I wont see breloom 100% of the time but lum berry has saved infernape from a crippling status that's not from a breloom quite often. I tried blissey and didnt like her.

I see the ohko on dragonite after SR and....it sounds good but I don't think so. Flamethrower won't get the ohko but it's not that necesary. Following Feralligates's train of logic, I wont see dragonite 100% of the time and when I do I wont send an infernape at him. (Earthquake on Dnite is nasty) I'll opt for starmie or mamoswine's ice shard.

[Feralligates]

What was said wasn't meant to be offensive, if anything I was simply trying to be constructive. Yes, everyone has their own way of playing and what have you, but cold, hard facts are simply that.

Like you said, you have your way of playing, but do understand you posted your team for observation, and your bound to get just that, and we honored that by being courteous with our critiques and giving you recommendations that will work best for your team.

[randomspot555]

Superpower's drop won't matter on a lead Pokemon like Mamoswine, which doesn't have the stats or typing to live too long after coming out.

[EchoLandon]

The power/accuracy debate isn't set in stone. I am one of the people who preffere to have as much accuracy as possible. Is there something wrong with that?

And yes I did post it here for critique. But that doesn't mean I have to make every change that is suggested. I don't think that opting not to go with Fire Blast is a particularly stingy stance.

[EchoLandon]

I was under the impression that giving mamoswine speed rather than bulk was so that it could survive for use later in the game. So should I use him as a suicide lead or a lead/physical attacker?

[randomspot555]

I was under the impression that giving mamoswine speed rather than bulk was so that it could survive for use later in the game. So should I use him as a suicide lead or a lead/physical attacker?

Mamoswine just has too many weaknesses to effectively wall. It is basically a suicide lead that has access to a few nifty tricks, mainly Superpower and Endeavor.

You can also Choice Band/Scarf (sweeper or Revenge Killer) and allow it to act appropriately, but it cannot take too many hits. Weak to water, fighting, grass, steel, fire, neutral to ground and everything else except Poison. It can take some hits, but damage from SR (neutral) will rack up eventually, though it is immune to both damaging weather effects, which is nice.

Basically, you can use it as a somewhat bulky glass cannon, or you can use it as a suicide lead.

[randomspot555]

I was under the impression that giving mamoswine speed rather than bulk was so that it could survive for use later in the game. So should I use him as a suicide lead or a lead/physical attacker?

Mamoswine just has too many weaknesses to effectively wall. It is basically a suicide lead that has access to a few nifty tricks, mainly Superpower and Endeavor.

You can also Choice Band/Scarf (sweeper or Revenge Killer) and allow it to act appropriately, but it cannot take too many hits. Weak to water, fighting, grass, steel, fire, neutral to ground and everything else except Poison. It can take some hits, but damage from SR (neutral) will rack up eventually, though it is immune to both damaging weather effects, which is nice.

Basically, you can use it as a somewhat bulky glass cannon, or you can use it as a suicide lead.