Team Azure

[Desch]

So just a disclaimer. I'm kinda new to this, so team dynamics and synergy will probably be broken in a few places. Any suggestions as to how to increase it would be very welcome. Any suggestions on descriptions or how to present this topic better would be great as well. Without further ado, here is my team.

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First off, my favorite pokemon that has ever existed has got to be Gyarados. With DP, it became a lot better after the Physical/Special changes. It's usage is near 20%, and I believe it deserves it. It's a beast of a pokemon, and a staple of all my teams. As such, it was an easy choice for my first member.

So what counters Gyarados? Tangrowth, Metagross, Forretress, Suicune, Skarmory, and Rotom. Out of those, I don't usually see a Metagross who has Thunderpunch. Tangrowth I have seen once or twice, but I believe it isn't around enough to warrant as much a threat as Forrestres and Suicune. I've heard Skarmory is a great pokemon and commonly used, but believe it or not -- I've never encountered one, so I'm dropping it as well. So what counters Suicune and Forretress? I've had a lot of success running a Tyranitar on a Suicune. Tyranitar is also a beast of a pokemon, another one that sees high play rates. He's a great pokemon. I mean, if you eat mountains, you have to be pretty beastly.

So, he happens to be countered by a lot of things, like Scizor - the most used pokemon in OU if I heard correctly. Guess what? Gyarados can counter that, so we're covered there as long as I don't throw him away too early. Swampert can effectively deal with Tyranitar, but I'm not too worried about that possibility. Usually by the time Tyranitar comes out, Swampert will have been crippled. So I don't have to stress out finding a good pokemon to cover weaknesses (I'm guessing I'm horribly wrong on this point. Please enlighten me?) So now, we have to find a third pokemon. Obvious choice being Scizor, because he's simply that good.

So what counters Scizor? Heatran and Rotom-H are the most used. Tyranitar covers Rotom-H, so Heatran is my main worry. Gyarados can serve as a counter occasionally, but I don't want to stretch it that thin. So, Vaporean, Suicune, Empoleon, or Swampert will be the next pokemon. Each is pretty similar in terms of weaknesses, so I don't have much to go on there. Suicune is more of an inbetween pokemon I belive in terms of offensive and defensive, and I really dislike any legendary pokemon used in OU, so I'm going to nix it. That leaves me with Empoleon, Vaporeon and Swampert. Vaporeon can serve as a team healer, Empoleon as a wall, while Swampert could be my leader. It's a tough choice. In the end, I decided Swampert as I need a lead.

So the most used counter to Swampert I see used regularly is Latias. I don't need to worry much about that because of my Tyranitar. I'm not gonna worry too much about covering in that regard -- rather at this point, I need to address how I have four physical pokemon and no serious contenders as a special. So, what is one of the best special pokemon? Gengar.

Gengar is unfortunately very frail and pretty easy to counter. Scizor, Tyranitar, and Blissey each make great counters. Again, Scizor can be countered by Gyarados. So Tyranitar and Blissey are the big problems. Tyranitar is countered by Scizor, so now we have to deal with Blissey. If I'm careful, Scizor can counter her, so yet again I'm not too worried about weakness covering. However, as mentioned Gengar is very frail, and will have to be played carefully and well in order to be effective. So that's five out of six pokemon chosen. I still only have one special -- so adding another special pokemon would be great. Lucario and Togekiss each have great special attack. Togekiss works great with flinching, while Lucario is just a beast in general, and his counters are covered by my other pokemon. I like Lucario as a pokemon more than Togekiss, so it killed me when I tested this set. Togekiss easily outpaced Lucario as a more reliable pokemon, so it will fill in my final set.

So that will be my final set. Time for stats and specifics!

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Swampert @ Leftovers

Ability: Torrent

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)

- Earthquake

- Roar

- Stealth Rock

- Ice Beam

Standard Swampert lead set. I chose Roar over Surf/Protect because I might be able to get a good look at the opposing team after setting up a Stealth Rock, and then will be able to plan accordingly how I move.The rest is pretty standard. I haven't tested this guy out as fully as I'd like, because of four guys competing for this slot. So while I don't have as great a feel as I'd like, he's still served pretty well.

Gyarados @ Life Orb

Ability: Intimidate

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Dragon Dance

- Waterfall

- Ice Fang

- Stone Edge

Another standard set, this is a beast of a Gyarados. Very rarely does this guy ever disappoint me. I mentioned above I loved Gyarados since RBY, and he just keeps getting better. I'll send him out in order to counter, or deal with an annoying pokemon. He'll probably come out after Tyranitar and try to finish up after the rest of my team has done their job. However, he's really flexible -- I've sent him out early too, and he's performed just as well.

Scizor @ Life Orb

Ability: Technician

EVs: 246 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd

Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Bullet Punch

- U-turn

- Superpower

- Swords Dance

This guy sees over 30% usage for a reason. He's that good. Another pokemon who never, ever disappoints. I've done massive damage each time I use him, even though opponents at this point have to know he's coming. Life Orb over Choice Band because I like to have the ability to change quickly, and use U-Turn to it's fullest. This also lets me use Swords Dance if I get the chance, which is pretty much overkill. I may want to switch U-Turn to Roost, but at this point the set has been working really well, so I don't think I will just yet.

Tyranitar @ Choice Band

Ability: Sand Stream

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Crunch

- Aqua Tail

- Outrage

- Earthquake

Standard Choice Band set, but with Outrage instead of Pursuit. I never got Pursuit working as well as I'd have liked, so I switched in Outrage, and it's been working pretty well. It throws something new in there, and it's working fine right now. I may swap it in the future, but for now... it stays. Helps me counter Latias too, although I've never actually tested that theory. It mows down teams not expecting it though, and has brought me back from a two pokemon deficit once.

Togekiss @ Leftovers

Ability: Serene Grace

EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpD

Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

- Aura Sphere

- Air Slash

- Roost

- Nasty Plot

I choose Aura Sphere over Thunder Wave because the attack never worked for me -- I'd always end up dead before I could take advantage of it. In a sense, this has become a hybrid of the Flinch and Sweeper set. It's worked great for me, and usually can do some serious damage before falling. Roost helps it just keep going, and I can switch in to some non-threats and use a Nasty Plot, which just results in pain. I wanted Lucario, but... this guy just works better for me. Not as frail, which is good considering my next guy.

Gengar @ Leftovers

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Shadow Ball

- Substitute

- Focus Blast

- Hypnosis

Standard Substitute set. I switch in, use Substitute or Hypnosis then substitute, and then just Focus Blast and Shadow Ball my way into oblivion. Very frail, but does his job well. It's had mixed results in my tests, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do with him just yet.

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So that's it. Any feedback is welcome -- again, I'm kinda newb to all this, so detailed analysis descriptions (especially focusing on why) would be much welcomed. Thanks guys!

Yes, this was named after Microsoft Azure. I'm a fanboy . Also, for those who care, here is a picture of weaknesses from Marriland:

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj127/desche_weyard/azure.png

[randomspot555]

Swampert @ Leftovers

Ability: Torrent

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)

- Earthquake

- Roar

- Stealth Rock

- Ice Beam

Fairly standard set. Why not run -speed nature so you can take special hits a bit better? Be ready to switch in Gengar a lot so you can absorb the explosions from Metagross and Bronzong.

Gyarados @ Life Orb

Ability: Intimidate

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Dragon Dance

- Waterfall

- Ice Fang

- Stone Edge

There's nothing wrong with this set on the surface, HOWEVER, you'll be losing 25% from SR, + life orb recoil + sand storm damage. Standard DD Orbed Dos/Mence suck on sand teams for this very reason. Basically you need to ditch T-Tar or this.

In it's place? Hard to decide. You can slip in Scarf Flygon to revenge kill. This team would also greatly benefit from a Spinner, and for sand teams those are basically Donphan, Claydol, or Tentacruel.

Donphan is bulky, but is hurt by Toxic Spikes. Claydol levitates them away and Tentacruel ABSORBS them.

Claydol can also be used to set up screens (though it still wants Leftovers, so don't get any bright Light Clay ideas), and Tentacruel can Knock Off the incoming ghost's item. That's basically the difference.

Scizor @ Leftovers

Ability: Technician

EVs: 246 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd

Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Brick Break/X-Scissor/Night Slash/Bug Bite

- Bullet Punch

- Substitute

- Swords Dance

Ok, this set is seriously all over the place. SD, or any non-Baton Passing Scizor, is one you want to keep in, so U-Turn is a poor choice. And no Bullet Punch? You're crazy. So, now that we've established that:

SD-Sub Scizor is your man. Seriously. Here's why:

Besides individual immunities, you've got no check on status. Sub will help block all that out.

Once behind a Sub, SD up a ridiculous amount of times so that even those that resist you will be hurtin.

If you choose anything but Brick Break, Heatran will laugh in your face, as will possibly other Scizors.

This is also an excellent Dusknoir counter as long as you stay away from Will O Wisp, since Sub blocks Pain Split. But it does NOT block Curse, so watch out for that.

Outrage on non-dragon = Give it Stone Edge.

Togekiss is fine.

Gengar @ Leftovers

Ability: Levitate

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Shadow Ball

- Substitute

- Focus Blast

- Hypnosis

Ok, this is confusing the hell out of me. It's like a combination of defensive sub and the sweeper.

I'd say just Specs this instead and forget abut subbing, since Scizor does it better.

[Desch]

Bullet Punch was the first move on Scizor . Thanks for the quick advice man! I'll try some of the suggested changes and let you know how it works!

[wraith89]

From the looks of it, you have a lot of slow but hard hitting Pokemon. They would REALLY appreciate paralysis support. But right now I want to look at your Tyranitar...

Tyranitar @ Choice Band

Ability: Sand Stream

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

- Crunch

- Aqua Tail

- Outrage

- Earthquake

Just a few words about Tyranitar, I would not use Outrage without STAB and the speed something like Salamence has because it is quite risky and it gets easily revenge killed by the likes of things like Lucario or Scizor. If you really want to nail dragons, just get something like Ice Punch instead (but Stone Edge works better thanks to STAB). Instead, I would replace Outrage with Fire Punch so that you can nail Scizor on the switch, who likes to switch into Tyranitar quite often. It is also a safe move to use if you are bad at prediction, for many things that switch in can be hit super effectively like Scizor, Heracross, Mamoswine, Metagross, Bronzong, Lucario and such, and it even has that 10% chance of burn (of course, you still have to watch out for boosting Heatran's Flash Fire or giving Heracross the burn which = doom). As for Earthquake and Aqua Tail, both are quite redundant in coverage. Sure, Aqua Tail is much safer because nothing in OU aside from Vaporeon is immune to it (would you be fighting Vaporeon with Tyranitar anyways?) and being locked into Earthquake is not a good idea, but Earthquake and Aqua Tail pretty much covers the same types of Pokemon. I would replace one of them with Stone Edge. Yeah, I HATE Stone Edge because it misses everytime I want it to hit and the other guy always nails me with it and critical hits me, but you get the point. It provides better coverage and takes advantage of STAB, and not many things like to take Stone Edge from Swampert. Even 248 HP Scizor can take around 94% damage max from it (~ 80%ish minimum) when equipped with Choice Band, so it can OHKO with Stealth Rocks. Now which one to replace? If you want to 2HKO Gliscor with Aqua Tail then stick with Aqua Tail. Otherwise Earthquake is more reliable and does more damage usually but being locked into it giving the opponent a free chance to switch in is no fun.

As for that EV spread... 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed... there is not much thought put into it. 252 Speed on Tyranitar hits 221... which really does not outpace anything but those minimum speed Skarmories and Scizors (who spam Bullet Punch anyways) and other Tyranitars, so it really serves no purpose (not to mention so many Pokemon specifically hit 222 speed JUST to beat Adamant Tyranitar or hit 244/245 Speed just to beat Jolly Tyranitar's 243 speed... and everything else is naturally faster than Tyranitar WITHOUT any investment). If you really want to outpace Skarmory and those other Pokemon sitting around 180ish range, hit 88 Speed EVs to tie with them at 180 Speed (assuming 31 IVs), or raise it even higher up to 92 or 96 tops... but that is pretty much all this Tyranitar needs. Tyranitar is hopelessly slow so it wants all the defense it can get, so pump the rest into HP.

Another EV spread I found useful is 252 HP/40 Atk/216 SpDef with Careful nature. It can take on Gengar's Focus Blast and KO back with Crunch (Focus Sashers still die to the sand stream) and sponges hits from Latias (Draco Meteor does like 30%ish if I am not mistaken) and Zapdos (lol at ~18% Thunderbolt damage, 9% Heat Waves, and ~19% Hidden Power Grass) quite well to absorb their hits. Crunch eats both of them up and none of them wants to stay around long enough to let Tyranitar destroy them. Earth Power from Heatran is 3-4HKO at best while Tyranitar's Earthquake OHKOs it back. But using this set, I would not use Aqua Tail because it will not 2HKO Gliscor, its main target, due to that low input in Attack. But let's face it. With Tyranitar's already monstrous attack, does it really need much investment? Which one will you use? 160 HP/252 Atk/96 Speed Adamant or 252 HP/40 Atk/216 SpDef Careful? It depends on your playing style, but 4 HP Tyranitar is not taking a Bullet Punch from Scizor, which runs around everywhere.

Yeah, also another thing about what randomspot said: would Tyranitar's sandstream hinder your team a lot? That Gyarados with Life Orb will NOT like the sand at all. So think about your team synergy and maybe it will work out for you, but somehow Tyranitar somewhat collides with your Dragon Dance Gyarados. Maybe if that Gyarados was the Leftovers type with a bulkier EV set it might work. But then again without Gyarados there is not many people who can take down Scizor, and bulkier Gyarados does that job quite well. You may need to consider replacing Gyarados or Tyranitar with something or work around it. Also, Tyranitar does NOT counter Suicune. Suicune can do a good job messing around with Tyranitar, despite Tyranitar's bloated Special Defense. The Resttalk versions with Calm Mind and Surf (Crocune) can do an even greater job messing around with Tyranitar, bypassing that special defense boost and 2HKOing-OHKOing with Surf after a few CMs. If you are lucky and get a Defense Drop from Crunch though, Suicune can be beaten but they usually switch out only to come back again and mess with it. Also as randomspot said, a spinner can help. My choice of spinners are Forretress and Tentacruel (the former due to its bulk and crazy Gyro Ball and the ability to set up all entry hazards and the latter because it eats Toxic Spikes and counters Mixapes very well). Good luck with your team.

[randomspot555]

Actually, if you don't want a spinner (but I highly recommend one, due to Spikes/Toxic Spikes and I just find racking up SR damage incredibly annoying), your standard Zapdos set is GREAT. It's one of the few fairly bulky flying/whatever types, great Roost (watch out for slow Earthquake users), and access to Heat Wave makes it a fairly solid counter to Scizor. It resists every single move Scizor carries outside of Pursuit (low damage) and Night Slash (rarely used).

Now, since you're a wi-fi player (right?), what makes Zapdos great is a choice of Hidden Power Ice or Grass. But since getting something on the cart with a decent HP type and at least 60 power is incredibly challenging without RNG, then I can still do something that'll make it halfway decent:

Zapdos w/ Leftovers

Pressure

Bold/Impish

252 HP/128 DEF/128 Sp DEF/

- Thunderbolt

- T-Wave

- Roost

- Heat Wave

Sub kind of seems cool, but you don't want to risk getting down to below 25% HP then losing it's use.

Alternatively, you can run Discharge over T-Bolt for 30% paralysis chance and Toxic in the 2nd slot.

I highly suggest max HP. The remainder can be re-done to personal preference.

However, I'd still highly suggest Rapid Spinning. Especially if Tyranitar switches out a lot, you'll start to notice how much damage your guys take even if they aren't weak to SR.

[Desch]

Awesome, thanks so much for the in depth advice . I'm actually a Shoddy player right now (waiting for HGSS to go wifi) so these changes won't pose a problem at all. I'll try throwing a Tenatcruel and Zapdos in there and run some tests, and post which one I think works better. Thanks dude!

[Enkidu]

Tyranitar wants this set,

252 hp/252 attack/ 4 def

Earthquake

Stone edge

Crunch

Substitute

@ leftovers.

Speed is not an issue for Tyranitar, but 252 hp and his own sandstorm boost lets him survive Choice scarf gengars focus blast ( LO and choice specs rape Tyranitar, but it IS a 4x weakness, so being able to live through an unboosted one is pretty sweet already. ) And with substitute you get great scouting chances as most things that switch into tyranitar are pretty easily 2HKO'd anyway, and with a sub up it means its harder for them to try and setup on you.

Switch out gengar to Latias, use this set

252 Hp/ 252 speed/ 4 special attack, Timid nature

Draco Meteor

Surf

Calm mind

Thunderbolt

@ leftovers

Its an odd set, and its not meant to stall out the whole metagame or something like that, but essentially you can switch in on anything that doesn't threaten you, calm mind once and have great special attack ( and even better defensive capabilities )but it doesnt sacrifice survivability nor speed. The amount of things you can setup on with this set is ridiculous and aside from rapid spinning its a much better special wall than tentacruel.

If your not into playing risque as they say, use this set 252 special attack/ 252 speed Timid nature, recover/calm mind/dragon pulse/ surf

Gyarados is something that I use extensively as its perfect for countering fire types and fighting types. Try out this EV spread and moveset

168 speed/ 252 attack/ 84 hp, Jolly nature

Dragon dance

Waterfall

earthquake

Taunt

It will let you screw up stall quite a bit, after 1 DD you outspeed jolteon and OHKO with earthquake, and the natural speed+ nature lets you outspeed most electrivire and OHKO with earthquake.

try out some changes and get back to us with what you get mate.

[Desch]

Thanks for all the awesome advice guys!

[wraith89]

Waterfall and Earthquake is somewhat redundant in coverage though because they pretty much target the same Pokemon (Fire and Rock are hit super effectively and both do not hit Grass types well at all, although Earthquake OHKOs Magnezone and Tangrowth who walls this set is rather rare) and Waterfall OHKOs Jolteon and Electivire anyways after + 1 DD. Try Stone Edge or even STAB Bounce instead of Earthquake on that Gyarados set (beware that Stone Edge has poor accuracy and Bounce can be easily PP stalled if the opponent has Protect). Otherwise I would go for what Enkidu said, as Taunt is one of Gyarados's most dangerous weapons that also sets it apart from Salamence (it means stuff like Blissey and Skarmory cannot mess Gyarados over).

[Enkidu]

Waterfall + earthquake isn't meant to hit super effectively, its just meant to hit things for neutral damage as not much resists both of them bar things rotom and whatnot, but this set is meant to counter very specific pokemon and not just run through teams, as too many people are much too prepared for that now.

[wraith89]

If there was a third move Waterfall + Earthquake would be acceptable, but stuff like Exeggutor/Zapdos/Dragonite/Salamence (!!)/Celebi/Ludicolo/Breloom/Torterra/Tangrowth/Rotom/etc can be problematic is all I am saying. Even if it was not meant to hit super effectively, it can run into a few problems (although I concede that Stone Edge has failed me a lot thanks to that less than desirable accuracy and most of the Pokemon I listed are grassers which are not too prominent... and lol, utterly walled by Water Absorb Mantine). But I suppose you can get rid of them before attempting to sweep with Gyarados. But many times if I run both, I rarely find myself using Earthquake unless it was Magnezone or Empoleon.

Hmmm... maybe Return might work? It makes a good combo to hit things neutrally as only Empoleon I think resists it (and I am not counting Shedinja because it does not show its face usually and Stealth Rocks/sand mess with it and Dialga is out of the question).

[Enkidu]

Coverage is always nice, but as I said its meant to counter a few specific pokemon, basically ground/fire/steel/bug pokemon that are now hitting harder than ever thanks to platinum. Even after stealth rock is in Gyarados takes hits from those types like a champ, DD is only on that set to act as a "scout" type of attack. It also assures OHKO's and speed advantages on specific pokemon after a boost ( gengar for OHKO's and 252 speed timid jolteon for speed, and anything with a scarf thats slower, heatran anyone? )

for coverage taunt can be dropped, but as I said this moveset isn't meant to kill more than its supposed to. Hence the Jolly nature and only 2 attacks. Basically think of it as a Gliscor with different typing ( also different coverage ) and the ability to use DD.

But I havent battled in awhile anyway, Smogon either has me up against shiity players or fucking amazing ones, and no ones on PP shoddy anymore.

[Desch]

Ok, so kind of a specific request. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to make this team more Breloom resistant?

[randomspot555]

Ok, so kind of a specific request. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to make this team more Breloom resistant?

Well, a few ways:

Something that isn't mentioned often about status: Once a Pokemon has a status ailment (poison, burn, paralyzed, sleep), it can't pick up another one. So if I have...say, a Breloom who's Toxic Orb has already been activated, I can easily switch in Breloom on the opponent's Breloom to absorb the Spore.

From there, it's all about predicting and sometimes winning the speed tie. Does he sub and I focus punch? What if he has Seed Bomb over leech seed? etc...

Another situation is to have a U-Turn user. Have someone absorb the Sleep, switch in a fast U-Turn user such a sBand Ape or Scarf Flygon, and then on the Focus Punch, switch in a ghost to absorb it. The bulky ghosts (Rotom forms, Dusknoir) can't be hurt much by most Breloom sets, and bonus if they can sub up.

Breloom is a really hard Pokemon to specifically prepare for. Your best bet is to play against someone with a Breloom and see what happens.

[Enkidu]

Or remove Taunt on Gyarados and replace it with sleep talk, after Intimidate hits Breloom, focus punch is doing crap damage and you can still stat up and attack after that.

I would suggest changing its EV spread to something bulkier however.

[wraith89]

That is a little overspecialized though. Might as well run a Resttalk set (the defensive Gyarados type). How about letting something take the sleep, then switching in Gengar so that Focus Punch is not even touching it? (Beware of Leech Seed though). Breloom is VERY tricky to counter.

[Desch]

Alright, good idea. Thanks guys! Still running some tests, I'll get back to you soon