Typhlosion from BL to Standard

[Cygnus]

I personally feel that Typhlosion hasnt gotten enough credit for its own abilities. I would not be posting this thread without support, which is as follows:

Typhlosion has good base stats: 78 HP, 84 Atk, 78 Def, 109 Sp Atk, 85 Sp Def, 100 Spd.

With the base stats it has, it is cut out for special sweeping in higher tiers.

Typhlosion has a good move pool, including Fire, Psychic, Grass, Electric, normal, ghost, fighting, Ground, Dark, Rock, and even steel type moves, shown below (the best of each for the most part)

Fire- Eruption, Flare Blitz

Psychic- Extrasensory (HGSS)

Grass- Solar Beam

Electric- Thunder Punch

Normal- Headbutt, Hyper Beam, Double Edge

Ghost- Shadow Claw

Fighting- Focus Blast, Brick Break

Ground- Earthquake

Steel- Gyro Ball

Rock- Rock Slide, Rollout

Dark- Fling (chuck a flame orb at face?!)

There are no types that typhlosion cant do a single thing against (Dragons are usually flying in standard, thus rockslide is best, Water can be taken care of with thunderpunch or solar beam, steel by eruption, psychics by shadow claw, darks by focus Blast, Dark/Ghosts by a neutral eruption.) Sure, it has the weakness to stealth rock, but i dont think that alone is enough to knock it down to the BL tier. Typhlosion has the versatility to be a jack of all trades for a team that needs to cover two or more types at once. It also handles most Standard pokemon well (depending on moveset), and on serebii.net, apparently has a shallow move pool? 11/18 types isnt shallow to me... its not the deepest, but it isnt shallow by any means.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Shogun

[memjee]

Typlosion is a pokemon with good all around stats, a wide movepool and the great attack erruption, though it has all of this, I still don't think it deserves to be standard for these reasons.

- It's been curse with the typing of fire, though good offensively, this is poor typing defensively. Making it's mediocre def and overlooked special defence.. well kinda useless. The fact that it's weak to the common water attacks, the ever used earthquake and stealth rock, really limits it's used (Stealth Rock limits erruption as well)

- Other fire pokemon have a lot more to offer being better typing or a priority move (Infernape, Heatran, Blazikin, Arcanine)

- It has no defining stats, it's special attack is the best thing it has and that isn't even that great.

For these fact Typhlosion isn't even in BL, it's UU. Sorry but I beleive it belongs there.

Anyways good pointers nonetheless, be sure to add a poll next time so the people can decide.

Edited October 26, 2009 by memjee

[randomspot555]

First off, Typhlosion is currently UU.

Second, the way tiers work, anything from said tier AND LOWER can be used. Nothing is preventing anyone from using Typhlosion in a standard battle or even in an Uber battle.

Third, BL is literally "ban list", specifically banned from UU. If a Pokemon is in the BL "tier", it's basically been tested for UU, found to ruin the game, and banned to OU. It just usually doesn't get used much, but it'll never go back to UU unless something really changes.

Typhlosion has good base stats: 78 HP, 84 Atk, 78 Def, 109 Sp Atk, 85 Sp Def, 100 Spd.

With the base stats it has, it is cut out for special sweeping in higher tiers.

Base stats alone don't mean much. Flareon has an amazing 130 attack and 110 sp Defense, but gets very few worthwhile physical attacks. A fire typing by itself isn't really that good, giving you a weakness to rock, ground (common), and water (common).

As for special sweeping, Gengar easily outclasses it in terms of speed and sp atk, has THREE immunities (2 to very common attacking types), and a ridiculous movepool. Starmie doesn't have the best sp atk, but has great speed and Natural Cure.

It also doesn't help that the starters' standard abilitiy of powering up STAB at low HP is seemingly rarelty used outside of Aqua Jet Feraligatr.

Typhlosion has a good move pool, including Fire, Psychic, Grass, Electric, normal, ghost, fighting, Ground, Dark, Rock, and even steel type moves, shown below (the best of each for the most part)

Of the attacks you list, I can't see Extrasensory giving too much useful coverage, Solar Beam requires set up, Normal type attacks have crap coverage and Hyper Beam is lol on anything not Porygon-Z. Gyro Ball is pointless on something so fast, and Fling is pretty gimmicky by itself.

Now this doesn't mean Typhlosion can't be decent on a standard team. That Eruption Scarf Lead can be a great use, though I don't see it as too reliable.

You actually said it yourself. It's a jack of all trades and a master of none. It get make a decent mixed wall breaker, but why use Typhlosion when Electivire and Dragonite already are tried, true, and good at it?

One might make the case that Heatran has been able to shine despite being weak to what are basically the three most common types of attacks in the game, water, ground, and fighting. But it's steel typing + flash fire gives it a ridiculous amount of resistancies and immunities, immune to poison and will o wisp-ing, and is a great Scarf user becasue it's sp atk doesn't really need to be boosted. It can also make a late game Taunt user, Sub-Torment can wreck havoc on Pokes who need to do set up, and so on. It also helped that the strongest Earthquake in the game AKA Garchomp was banned to the uber tier.

- Other fire pokemon have a lot more to offer being better typing or a priority move (Infernape, Heatran, Blazikin, Arcanine)

While I agree Blazkiken has more to offer than Typhlosion, not by much. It's basically an outdated Ape.

Leave it in UU where it can be the wall breaking mixed attacker there and it can shine. If it's thrown into OU it's going to quickly fall into obscurity because it won't be able to serve a unique role on most teams.

[Cygnus]

I see the points, and they all make sense. I guess ill have to give that to you.

BTW, when i said BL i was referring to borderline, as stated on serebii.net >.>

to wrap this up, ill explain extrasensory because i luck-sac out alot >.> on top of being a psychic move to deal with fightings (who take advantage of typhlosions lower Def), it has a chance to make the opponent flinch and has decent base power.

Well, i guess im done. delete or leave it, whatever, doesnt matter. ill still use typhlosion on my teams >.>

[randomspot555]

I see the points, and they all make sense. I guess ill have to give that to you.

BTW, when i said BL i was referring to borderline, as stated on serebii.net >.>

SPP does not maintain a tier list. If they put one up, it's probably incredibly outdated.

to wrap this up, ill explain extrasensory because i luck-sac out alot >.> on top of being a psychic move to deal with fightings (who take advantage of typhlosions lower Def), it has a chance to make the opponent flinch and has decent base power.

Ok, so it's SE against fighting and poison, neither of which are overtly common types. And Pokemon like Heracross won't ever be coming in on Typhlosion anyway.

Anyways, it's obvious you haven't bothered to read the stickies in this forum which point you to the tier list used here. Since this thread is based off of an outdated tier list, I'm closing it.