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Need help - Mystery of the vanished Mt. Moon mushrooms


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*** UPDATE 2 ***

There is already one thing I know and that is when you return the quickest way possible to Mt. Moon in the game without ding anything else (defeat Misty, enter SS Anne, get cut, and go through diglett tunnel back to Pewter) you wll find the TinyMushrooms. We can conclude that in a normal game, anytime when you just return to Mt. Moon, you will find them.

 

** UPDATE ***

In one of the rom games I continued the game, I'm 5 badges far. I returned to Mt. Moon, and... THERE ARE TINY MUSHROOMS.

It's clear now that they do spawn. But, they only spawn after a sudden ingame event. Please feel free to search or investigate what exact event causes the tiny mushrooms to spawn. This is one of the last hidden mysteries in the ALMOST 15 YEARS OLD FIRE RED AND LEAF GREEN GAMES!!!

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mt._Moon#Items

Dear ROM players,

I have found a problem in pokemon fire red and leaf green roms and so far I could not find why this happens and no one seems to be able to help me with this. Please give this a read and give your thoughts.

A few weeks ago I started playing a rom of pokemon fire red, randomized with a randomizer and I had a lot of fun. After a while I entered Mt. Moon and I remembered from the original cartridge I used to play that there are some tiny mushrooms hidden in rocks in Mt. Moon. Strangely enough, I couldn't find these mushrooms in the rom.

I started searching the internet why I couldn't find these stupid tiny hidden mushrooms and I found out that there are other people with the same problem (see sources below). So I started my quest in searching out why we don't have tiny mushrooms hidden in Mt. Moon.

The first idea was to play the rom without any hacks; maybe the randomizer messed up the items. I did choose for a shuffle of all items so this was very likely. So I downloaded a new, clean fire red rom and started playing until Mt. Moon, convinced I would find tiny mushrooms hidden in the rocks. But I didn't. So the randomizing did not mess up the tiny mushrooms, even on a complete clean rom they are gone.

This really made me think and I started a new game in leaf green, also a clean rom, to see if I could find them there. Somewhere on the internet I read this was only a problem in fire red, but oh boy, after playing into Mt. Moon on a leaf green rom, guess what? No tiny mushrooms hidden in the rocks.

Now this seems to be a rom only problem. People playing the original cartridges can find the tiny mushrooms, and after beating the game, also the big mushrooms, but on all the roms I tested, I could not find any tiny mushroom at all.

Does someone on this forum has an idea why the mysterious Mt. Moon mushrooms disappeared in the rom versions of fire red and leaf green? And could it be that also other hidden items disappeared?

Thanks in advance for the one who can solve this mystery.

Sources:

Edited by J_Cleffe
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UPDATE

In one of the rom games I continued the game, I'm now 5 badges far. I returned to Mt. Moon, and... THERE ARE TINY MUSHROOMS.

So this makes clear that they do spawn, also in roms, but there is an ingame event that makes them spawn. I don't know what event it is though.

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No they don't seem to spawn randomly, as there is a special 0x96 in the code which determines if they are pickable or not. There has to be something in the game that sets that code. So strange that no one, no one ever searched for it :P By the way, berries don't respawn, only those in berry forest, and those are footstep bound. After 512 steps they respawn.  

It's a nice idea to test what does spawn them, maybe something easy like getting the second badge seems plausible. I might try this but I don't know if I'll find it :P 

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Sounds similar to the items in Underground Path, I've seen some people saying they appear and some they don't depending on game progress.

 

EDIT: This guy mentions both but there's no answer to his question. https://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/304739/whats-the-deal-with-frlg-hidden-items

Edited by Flametix
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Yeah it is similar to the underground path items, they also appear after some ingame event. To me, it's very strange that after 15 years we don't know this. These games have been played like millions of hours by thousands of players and we don't know when hidden items spawn. It's almost too ridiculous to be true.

Maybe we can find the exact spawn moment though, when looking in the gamefiles. Problem is, I don't know how to do it :P

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