Team Needs Completion

[Awe]

Shiny Shuckle

EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SpD

Holding: Leftovers

Ability: Sturdy

Nature: Impish

~ Encore

~ Rest

~ Toxic

~ Stealth Rock

Shiny Kingdra

EVs: 252 Atk / 240 SpA / 16 Spe

Holding: Damp Rock

Ability: Swift Swim

Nature: Naughty

~ Rain Dance

~ Waterfall

~ Hydro Pump

~ Draco Meteor

Shiny Porygon-Z

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Holding: Choice Scarf

Ability: Adaptability

Nature: Timid

~ Tri Attack

~ Thunder

~ Ice Beam

~ Hidden Power Fighting

Scizor

EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe

Holding: Life Orb

Ability: Technician

Nature: Adamant

~ Swords Dance

~ Bullet Punch

~ Brick Break

~ X-Scissor

Metagross

EVs: 252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe

Holding: Choice Band

Ability: Clear Body

Nature: Adamant

~ Meteor Mash

~ Earthquake

~ Explosion

~ Bullet Punch

Probopass

EVs: 252 HP / 158 SpD /98 def

Holding: Leftovers

Ability: Magnet Pull

Nature: Calm

~ Thunder

~ Toxic

~ Earth Power

~ Flash Cannon

Shiny Kingdra

EVs: 252 Atk / 240 SpA / 16 Spe

Holding: Life Orb

Ability: Swift Swim

Nature: Naughty

~ Rain Dance

~ Waterfall

~ Hydro Pump

~ Draco Meteor

Shiny Shuckle

EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SpD

Holding: Leftovers

Ability: Sturdy

Nature: Impish

~ Encore

~ Rest

~ Toxic

~ Stealth Rock

Shiny Porygon-Z

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Holding: Choice Scarf

Ability: Adaptability

Nature: Timid

~ Tri Attack

~ Thunderbolt

~ Ice Beam

~ Hidden Power Fighting

Scizor

EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe

Holding: Life Orb

Ability: Technician

Nature: Adamant

~ Swords Dance

~ Bullet Punch

~ Brick Break

~ X-Scissor

Metagross

EVs: 252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe

Holding: Choice Band

Ability: Clear Body

Nature: Adamant

~ Meteor Mash

~ Earthquake

~ Explosion

~ Bullet Punch

My previous thread was closed because I was "not taking advice" when I was taking all advice except the Zapdos addition. I appreciated all advice honestly.

Suggestions Given

Porygon-Z-Thunderbolt /Done

Kingdra-Life Orb /Done

Remove Probopass /Done

Remove Shuckle as starter /Done still going to use but not as starter

Add Gengar /Going to do in place of Probopass

Remove Metagross /Thinking of what to replace With

Add Zapdos /

I have no clue what else to add to complete my team so I would like the help of the more experienced battlers here.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Awe

[Illithian]

I might as well go in depth. *opens smogon*

Anyway, I actually read through your last thread, and I still don't particularly understand why you're stuck on Shuckle when he has little use without proper team setup. Which is particularly irritating in OU, since most people aren't going to fall for Encore. More on that later. However, since you allowed a new lead, lets get to work on that.

SR is needed. As a ground weakness, a fire attack, and explosion. I have an idea.

Azelf @Focus Sash

Ability: Levitate

Nature: Naive

Evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

- Stealth Rock

- Psychic

- Fire Blast / Taunt

- Explosion

Azelf is an extremely handy suicide lead, but on this team, he can serve a greater purpose later on: protection for probopass and scizor (not to mention easy switch-ins for many EQ sweepers). As a lead, Azelf outspeeds everything except Aero (which are relatively rare). Anyway, normally I would say Taunt instead of Fire Blast in every situation, but your team is alarmingly low on fire moves, which is a BAD thing, because of Scizor. On the other hand, if you put a fire move later on, definitely give Azelf taunt.

With that said, lets move on to:

Kingdra: Uhm.. aaaahh... weeeell...

Honestly, I question Smogon of having Kindra in OU. Not only is it (imho) the most useless dragon on the planet, it just sucks. Really.

Well, to be fair, it has uses, but they are far and few between. A Rain Dance Kingdra is extremely difficult to run. Kingdra's defenses aren't bad by any means but to call them good would be a BIG stretch. And his attack? Not so much. Kingdra with Dragon Dance and Rain Dance can work, to an extent, as it gives him plenty enough speed and power to take out a suprising number of people.

But honestly, I don't think Kingdra does anything for your team. She was useful for P-z's thunder, but without Zapdos I barely see a use.

Although the idea behind her was good. Lets build on it. One of my favorite pokemon in the metagame is Salamence, because:

1. He kicks ass.

2. See 1 for details.

Not to mention his movepool. I reccomend a mixmence, since your team lacks special moves.

Salamence @Life Orb

Ability: Intimidate

Nature: Rash

Evs: 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe

- Draco Meteor

- Fire Blast

- Brick Break

- Crunch

Crunch can be alternated with roost, but I've never found Salamence bulky enough to make good use of it. In any case, this set gives you back Draco Meteor from Kingdra, adds a Fire move (give Zelf taunt!), and a fighting move. And some massive power that requires zero setup. And some speed. And a counter to many physical attackers. I could go on for a bit.

Moving on: P-z

Well... =|

To be fair, P-z has some massive power behind a Choice Scarf, and is a very effective revenge killer, so I can't criticize. I am of the opinion that there are better options as a revenge killer, but I will not go on that point. In any case, thunder to t-bolt (you really should update the pokemon itself, not just say at the bottom what was changed), and Adaptability to Download. Your main attack usually won't be Tri Attack anyway.

Scizor: Whilst one of the most effective pokemon I personally have ever used, I don't really see why you're using it. To add ANOTHER fire weakness? Yeah, SD Scizor kicks the butt out of anyone not ready for it, but unfortunately ever team on the planet is ready for it. I think SD Luke is a much better choice.

Lucario @Life Orb

Ability: Inner Focus

Nature: Adamant

Evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

- Swords Dance

- Close Combat

- Extremespeed

- Ice Punch

SD Lucario is arguably the singular best lategame sweeper on the planet. One turn setup + 120 base power STAB move + best priority move in the game + coverage = win. That argument has plenty of holes, including Ghosts, but Lucario in general is fantastically powerful. Running Adamant over Jolly is a question of risk and gain. The risk of running Adamant is being outsped by almost everyone and being slower then neutral base 100s. The gain of running it is:

OHKO Skarmory

OHKO Donphan

OHKO Bronzong

OHKO Hippowdon

(All assuming SR)

Hell, thats enough gain for me.

Metagross: CB Metagross is one of the greatest physical threats in OU, not to mention a massive defensive boost for your team. Still, I fail to see why you run Bullet Punch over Thunderpunch. Thunderpunch gives you coverage against Suicune and Skarmory, while Bullet Punch as a priority move is rarely useful on a CB Meta set.

There are a ton of problems that Metagross comes with him, including free switch ins for:

Gliscor

Zapdos

Swampert

Dugtrio

Forretres

Rotom

Hippowdon

Choosing to keep Metagross is not a bad idea per se, but it opens a ton of new weaknesses for your team, and unfortunatly since you refuse to use legends you CAN'T ACT ON THEM. CM Latias, Celebi, and Zapdos absolutely destroy most of those pokemon, but your stubborn refusal to use them makes metagross much, much harder to manage.

Not to mention a new ground/fire weakness to manage. I really can't see Meta being that useful for this team.

However I will not deny that this team needs a powerful physical sweeper. There are two good options I can see.

Firstly, we introduce Swampert:

Swampert @Leftovers

Ability: Torrent

Nature: Impish

Evs: 252 Hp / 6 Atk / 252 Def

- Earthquake

- Avalanche

- Waterfall / Stone Edge / Protect

- Roar

This guy can adress a gigantuan amount of problems this team has. Infact, its one of the best matches I've ever seen. Physical Swampert is bulky enough and has the typing to be a pretty good wall. Earthquake and Avalanche form the ground / ice combination (shared by the below pokemon) resisted by only Bronzong (and Surskit, but thats by the by). Swampert also gives your team a neccesary Phazer. For the third move, its a pretty tough choice. Waterfall will do the most damage to levitaters such as Azelf and Gengar, but I would run from them, because the non-lead types often run a grass move. Stone Edge does more to Gyarados and hits flying types for more then Avalanche on average. Protect helps Swampert be a better wall and lets you scout for random grass moves.

Option 2:

Mamoswine @Leftovers

Ability: Snow Cloak

Nature: Adamant

Evs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Def / 68 SpD

- Curse

- Earthquake

- Avalanche

- Ice Shard

Mamoswine is right up with salamence as one of my favorites in the metagame. Tons of stuff I love about him, but he has nearly as much baggage as Metagross does. Still though, Curse enables him to be an EXTREMELY functional physical wall (which pert up there was doing aswell). Two curses pushes Mamo's attack to 788 and his defense to 486, which is basically... insane. Ice Shard will take out Salamence regardless of Curse, and once you get one or two down, Avalanche will do the rest. Avalanche is only 10% less damage towards Gyarados then Stone Edge would be, and thats before any curses. In essence, this guy is freakin amazing.

Which of the two you prefer is your choice.

Probopass: As far a special replacement, Togekiss works. Latias is best, but oh well. Gengar... would not be my first choice, as hes too offensive for this team.

And theres even more options in the physical section too. Snorlax can do it, although I wouldn't use him if you're using Mamo. Gliscor works well, but no special walling for him. Ignoring special walling, Electivire would be fantastic, as would Infernape.

Tons of options there. I would reccomend leaning towards the physical side, as its always good to have 3x special, 3x physical, and I don't think Gengar or Togekiss add enough to be better then Electivire or Infernape.

---

That ends my rate. I'll add more if I get internet again (or when I get home) if you have more questions.

I hope you noticed I did not re-include Shuckle, and that is because I think Shuckle has no place on any OU team whatsoever, and I'm being perfectly truthful. Favorite pokemon and preferences have no place at ALL in competitive battling. If using legendaries is banned how your friends play, thats totally fair, but using shuckle when there are so many better options isn't fair, and if you aren't willing to accept that competitive pokemon is entirely separate then ingame pokemon, where everything can work, then you shouldn't even try.

Cheers.

[Varna]

I really don't know where Awe mentioned "Hey guys I'm making this team for OU so go by smogon logic please", but if someone could point that out to me that would be splendid. All I read was that he was making this team to compete with his friends, where the only stated rules have been no legends.

Don't instantly assume "competitive" means "OU", people. Is that so hard?

[Illithian]

I really don't know where Awe mentioned "Hey guys I'm making this team for OU so go by smogon logic please", but if someone could point that out to me that would be splendid. All I read was that he was making this team to compete with his friends, where the only stated rules have been no legends.

Don't instantly assume "competitive" means "OU", people. Is that so hard?

I don't understand your point. OU is OU because the pokemon in it are stronger then in BL, UU, and NU. Thats why people play it. Tiers exist to separate metagames. If his metagame encompasses every tier except uber and legendaries, thats basically a modified version of OU. Smogon logic has nothing to do with it, its just that Smogon happens to be an exceedingly convenient way of looking at what moves a pokemon can learn and what movesets have proven to be effective.

Yes, some prediction logic that I use is 'smogon logic', so just ignore that and move on with the rest. =| Is that so hard?

[randomspot555]

Don't instantly assume "competitive" means "OU", people. Is that so hard?

Actually, it's a perfect assumption. It is 100% up to the thread maker to state what clauses are being used and what environment is being played in.

The OP failed to do that, and only difference really is "no legendaries".

So when one sees a thread with unstated rules, and 4/6 Pokemon falling into the OU tier, it's a fair assumption to rate as if it is being played in the standard tier.

[Awe]

I'm willing to use Zapdos for the team due to the substantial support it provides which you all have proved and 2/3 of the people I normally battle with have used Azelf/Suicune against me recently, only 1 person still says no legendaries,. sorry x.x