How Would You Improve Some Pokemon (Competitively)?

[wraith89]

Imo that looks too much like Espeon

I like its arrangement currently: its movepool is the problem... and speed of course. At this point though, it's probably more efficient to be special, but it looks boring :3

[Lorshinator]

Here's an idea:

Mantine, keep his stats the same, but give him roost, air slash, and maybe heal bell. Now he's beautiful.

[wraith89]

Maybe not so much Roost, as it is not a bird, but Recover, as aquatic creatures who recover their appendages or something. I don't know. Now I'm hoping the baby form Mantyke could have some move that could benefit its evolution form.

... Dream World is trolling: it learns Air Cutter, not Air Slash. UGH.

[Lorshinator]

I once thought of using Mantine, but it's so useless in comparison to Skarmory.

And give Eelektross the elemental punches. :3

[wraith89]

It still walls Water Pokemon very well... but that's about it. The only problem is that it is outclassed by Blissey, making people think Mantine is useless. Outclassed doesn't mean useless in absolute terms: people are always misled by that and all of a sudden think Feraligatr is bad because it is "outclassed" by Gyarados. Mhh. The one thing bringing it down is its 4x weakness... that and its low physical defence. Then there is that lack of Recovery... and they gave it a baby form of all things.

I don't know if that thing can even punch

[Lorshinator]

Yes. However, it is parallel to Skarmoy. Although Skarmory is beast in physical, it's special is a sore spot, and yes I know SkarmBliss Combos are the worst... But that's actually what Eelektross would be good at doing. :3

Mantine doesn't need an evolution, since Skarmory does not need one, but it certainly does need a better movepool. I chose roost because it's a flying type, and I don't know, I thought it made more sense, as it just would rest on sand and take a break, rather than making a nest or repairing it's genes or something.

>

Eelektross should. Alakazam has pathetic arms and he can still punch (referring to his dex here, I know how the past worked). It has giant arms and big claws, and I don't think it would be breaking the rules if it could learn a "punch" move.

[wraith89]

Eelektross does not make a replacement for Skarmbliss... ever

You see, well, Gamefreak does NOT think in terms of competitiveness, just lore-wise, and so Mantine is the polar opposite to Skarmory. Competitive players, however, do not use it that way. Also, Mantine is not a bird nor does it fly in the bird-like sense (even though it is flying type), so Roost would not really work, I think. It "glides underwater", as that is what rays do. Even then, there are some Pokemon out there who would really like Roost, like Rayquaza or even Heracross! But no Air Slash Gamefreak? Really now?

Alakazam actually had amazing punching prowess in the anime... seen it attacking Gary's Umbreon with Dynamicpunch? It was out of character for an Alakazam, but belonging to a rough pirate-like guy, I guess that is what he intended on doing.

Giant arms... I was rather annoyed at how totally unfairly biased the Electabuzz/Magmar duo was when they gave Electabuzz Ice Punch and Magmar had nothing to compensate for that. And even when they evolved, Electivire got the superior ability... couldn't Magmortar at least get Flash Fire? Electric type favouritism I tell you... every time! So then Eelektross gets all elemental punches? I guess though, Eelektross was meant to be some uber powerful creature of some kind because it has a similar evolution kind to Beldum or Magikarp, but it just isn't. It has an already expansive movepool though, so I believe it is some sort of a dragon-esque creature? God forbid that day when it gets Ice Punch... *runs* I would at least think it has Surf, because it is an eel! What a strange fellow Eelektross is...

Actually, God forbid the day Haxorus gets Fire Punch. Then I just quit!

[Midna312]

How would I try to improve Pokemon in a competitive way? To think strategically when it comes to improving stats - For example, Serperior might not have the greatest defense, so as soon as it evolves from Servine, I would use some iron (which ups the base defense stat) and I could teach it a defensive move, like Reflect of Calm Mind for Special Def. Stuff like that. In my opinion, you should make the most of your pokemon's stats before it reaches level 100.

[Lorshinator]

I did not mean Replacement. I meant counter, if it is mixed. (Thunderbolt + Wild Charge/Brick Break).

I would have to be unimaginably high to say that Eelektross would be a wall that good.

Give it waterfall then. ._.

[Lorshinator]

Ummm Bowser? This thread is more about what a Pokemon does/doesn't have, and how it could be improved.

For instance. Serperior's HP sucks. 75 isn't going to do much or something. So let's bump it to 80.

Or, a pokemon may not know a move, and then you list a move, and why it should be able to learn that move.

[Midna312]

Ok, so If a Serperior had 75 in HP, than you should try to improve it to 80 (like you said) or if you want to teah it a new move, you wonder how it could use that move, like I was shocked at first that Hydreigon couldn't use Dragon Claw (I then realized it doesn't have any hands)

Edited April 30, 2012 by Midna312

[wraith89]

Eelektross is a wallbreaker, but still will not beat Blissey without Acid Spray but still handles Skarmory well... usually. If it is the physical variant though, Skarmory can set up on it and blow it away when it Coils.

I do not know anything with Waterfall that does not have Surf.

[Lorshinator]

Coil and Wild Charge/Brick Break?

Acid spray may do something unless it is a calm mind variant. When I said mixed, I meant two physical moves for coverage, status, then STAB special. Or a special non-STAB and then another STAB physical.

[Lorshinator]

Ummm... Haxorus can learn dragon claw?

[Midna312]

Oh sorry. I was thinking of Hydreigon. I'll edit my previous post. Hydreigon can't use it because it doesn't have any hands. I was shocked at first to learn it couldn't use it. That's what I meant.

[Lorshinator]

Yeah, it makes sense it can't use Dragon Claw.

Outrage on the other hand...?

Nah, Hydreigon does not need it.

[Klaatu]

Ive been thinking about how certain pokemon get screwed by Stealth Rock...

50% HP for 4x weakness is clearly too impacting.

Id change it to something like this

0.25x= 0%+5

0.5x= 5%+5

1x= 10%+5

2x= 20%+5

4x= 30%+5

(The 5 being flat HP)

While this is a move, adjusting it would mean giving pokemon, who are essentially crap because of it, another chance.

...

Would a new thread be appropriate for discussing new moves or move changes that would improve the experience or be fun? o:

[Lorshinator]

Yeah, stealth rock is a tad bit OP.

I also thought that it could only work so many times, like after it hurts five foes, you have to set it up again?

[wraith89]

Whirlwind?

Skarmory is not getting OHKOd by Wild Charge anytime soon, not without taking previous damage and Stealth Rocks anyways, although it still does like (76% - 89.8%) after a + 1. As for Brick Break, it is ridiculously weak, especially without STAB. It is a consistent option for most non-Fighters, but do not expect that to OHKO Blissey anytime soon, even with a + 1. Wild Charge is not much weaker than Brick Break on Blissey anyways. Unless you were talking about beating Blissey... yeah I guess so. But I was more thinking about your special version. I think Acid Spray is usually more effective, except it forces things to switch out and has no effect on Steels.

I'm not trying to dismiss Eelektross as a wallbreaker, but seriously, if it wants to break through Skarmbliss, Coil set is not it. I think it would scare Blissey away though, as it turns into a set up bait... until Eelektross gets revenged by Specs Latios's Draco Meteor or something ridiculously overpowered.

Since when did Hydreigon have claws? Though I would love it to learn that move for some consistent physical STAB, but that is what Crunch is there for. And it is not even meant for that kind of job, so... blah.

Stealth Rocks is incredibly OP. Though I do like it when that Yanmega comes in with 50% HP less, some things like Articuno and the likes do not need reassurance about how useless they are already! If 2x weakness would be something like 18.75% and 4x would be 25%... eh, I don't know. At least Ho-oh got Regenerator to somewhat make up for that weakness.

EDIT: Okay, Eelektross supposedly lives underwater. It ABSOLUTELY needs Surf, maybe Dive.

As for Cofagrigus, it learns Nightmare and Dream Eater, but not Hypnosis? Hindsight anybody?

Also, it needs Pain Split or perhaps Recover. For a tanky Pokemon, it goes down much too quickly from the likes of a STAB Surf or something due to its low HP (ghosts with high defences tend to have ridiculously low HP... but it is characteristic of them as ghosts are not full of life, ha ha).

Edited May 1, 2012 by wraith89

[Midna312]

I wonder why the heck Kyogre can learn Thunder? It doesn't make sense I'm guessing because of it's Drizzle ability, Thunder has a 100% accuracy, and they want to make Kyogre overly powerful? And if it was high Spec. Attack, it'll be really dangerous.

Skymory won't get OHKO'd anytime soon by Wild Charge because of it also being a steel type. Type match ups these days... Posion type moves not affecting steel types? I first learned that when I tried to use Gunk Shot on a Magnezone...

Why would they make Confagirous able to learn Nightmare if it can't lean Hypnosis? Nightmare won't do any good if it doesn't know a move that can put a pokemon to sleep.

[wraith89]

Um, because Kyogre is a legend with the power to create storms. Why would it not make sense? There are plenty of waters who can learn Thunder, such as Starmie or Gyarados. Just because one is weak to a certain attack doesn't limit it from learning it... or else Psychics couldn't Shadow Ball or Marowak couldn't Ice Beam! Heck, we know Rhydon can Surf!

Steel does not resist electricity: it's just that Wild Charge is only a decently powered physical attack and Skarmory, despite its weakness to electricity, will not be OHKOd (bar crits), but still take massive damage. And yes, poison has no effect on steels. Don't ask why acid based moves do not corrode steel Pokemon.. it just doesn't. If anythings steels should be weak to electricity, but do I want my Empoleon or Skarmory to have an unnecessary 4x weakness? Absolutely not!

[Lorshinator]

Kyogre can learn thunder because it summons gigantic rainstorms and massive floods. When it pours, well, thunder is quick to follow. And since Kyogre is a legendary, it is quite obvious it would be powerful. So yes, it is because of it's ability, but also because of lore.

Skarmory would survive Wild Charge because of that 140 defence rating versus 115 attack (Eelektross). It is actually weak to electric, so it would do an intense amount of damage. It may not take it out, but it would still hurt. And I forgot Skarmory has sturdy, so it would not faint anytime soon.

Welcome to Gamefreak. They gave Emboar arm thrust, but no Drain Punch or even close combat... Super power, but not close combat... I suppose it works, but the lack of fighting moves by level is troll. Perhaps a tutor could teach it that move? There better be on in Black/White 2, but Haxorus better not learn fire punch. Otherwise it becomes uber.

In response to Wraith's comment, Hydreigon has three heads, not claws. In fact, it doesn't even have hands. How will it claw stuff? It'd be physically impossible! It can learn outrage, but it already has that I think. And Dragon Rush.

Give Eelektross Scald if it lives underwater, and surf, and waterfall. I mean COME ON! You're concerned about Eelektross but when you make troll clown you give it all of the tools of the trade for it to be a killing machine!? GAMEFREAK, YOU DISAPPOINT.

Then all the physical attackers can go nuts.

I think it would be cool if it learned Recover, but that may be pushing it. It would make it amazing, but I think pain split is more favorable considering it's not as powerful. However, I'd prefer Recover, just to make it stand out from Dusclops.

On Blissey, yeah... I was mainly figuring +2, and some sets have a life orb. Man, Eelektross is so cool, but it seems to have some problems with it's physical capabilities! It should've had a signature move that only it's family possessed. Like a really powerful physical move, like an electric stone edge. At least it is inaccurate.

[Midna312]

You are right about Kyogre. I know that steel doesn't resist electric type moves and that there are plenty of water types that can learn thunder-based moves. I make myself look like a fool with my knowledge of Pokemon... Anyway, back to topic.

It would make sense that pokemon with the ability to create storms would be able to learn Thunder and other moves like that. Thunder, like you said, is quick to follow after storms.

I've seen people with Skarmory in a battle video that are total powerhouses when it comes to defense. A skarmory with Roost is especially annoying, and sturdy doesn't make it any better. Even if it didn't have Sturdy, with it's defense, it could withstand a good amount of attacks and you could make it hold a Focus Sash (Focus band wouldn't work if it already took damage) Articuno could get creamed if you improved Skarmory's attack enough if you use Steel Wing. It wouldn't hurt if Skarmory could be able to use Metal Sound to lower defense.

Hydreigon reminds me of a Hydra... Wait, isn't that what it is based on? All pokemon are based on something, right?

Where did you hear that Electross lives underwater? If that really is true, it should be able to learn more water type moves than it currently can. Another thing is it can learn Flamethrower. It suprises me, some pokemon being able to use these moves when it has nothing to do with the pokemon (In Electross's case, it probably has something related to it)

[Lorshinator]

I don't know, Skarmory without sturdy is kind of meh... So it's preferable. It's other abilities, keen eye (which, come to think of it, would be nice if it ignored accuracy decreasing moves and also increased the accuracy of it's moves to make it better) are kind of pointless. Also, Skarmory does not prefer real attacks, it just likes sitting in one spot and trolling.

Hydreigon is a hydra. It's in the name. And all Pokemon are based on something... Somethings are more interesting than others though... *cough, cough* voltorb *cough*

Black Entry (from Serebii): They crawl out of the ocean using their arms. They will attack prey on shore and immediately drag it into the ocean.

Thus stating that it lives in water. However, you find Tynamo in a cave... Which doesn't make sense. In fact, you find a lot of pokemon in areas that you would not expect, I suppose. Eelektross in my opinion is very dragon like, because it can learn dragon claw and dragon tail, it breathes fire, but is electric type. And yes, I personally find it irritating that it cannot learn water moves... At least scald or waterfall... Even surf. If you haven't noticed, I'm a big fan of Eelektross.

[wraith89]

Skarmory without Sturdy? That is how we played in Gen III and IV: it certainly was not useless! Even in II it was OU and it did not even have Spikes!

Hydreigon is so bawss it needs claws. No questions asked. Why does its two smaller heads not function as claws? Hey, Diglett uses Scratch/Fury Swipes/Night Slash/Slash/Shadow Claw with its nose you know...

Yes Hydreigon gets Outrage. Zweilous has the most powerful non-boosted Outrage in the whole entire game!

This is why I don't like Black and White. Many things are placed in the most randomest places. To be fair, neither Eelektrik nor Eelektross could be found in the wild. If the latter were to show up, it would be quite useless like those wild Raichus or Wigglytuff in Pokemon Red/Blue.

My personal bias against electrics being so uber powerful kind of got me going against Eelektross, but I'm not all that against it I guess. It is quite the strange Pokemon, and seems like it is based off some sort of a draconian breed of an eel, allowing it to Dragon Claw/Dragon Tail/Flamethrower/etc. It was meant to be quite powerful because its baby form is not unlike Beldum, who turns to this powerful pseudolegend Metagross. But yeah, Eelektross does not exactly excel in anything, and physical moves in general are lacking in power in a physically dominated standard metagame, where tanks are often physically defensive and lack special. And the fact that special moves in general are more powerful than physical moves in terms of base power does not help. That is why I ran Thunderbolt, not the lol Thunderpunch on Electivire.

Anyhow, you can go mixed and run Coil + Thunder to raise Thunder's accuracy. Hey, it is not all that bad to try out. In fact, I think Eelektross is the best user of Coil. Who else do we have, Arbok (lol), Dunsparce (derp), Serperior (eh)?