Kyurem: A Speculation Thread

[wraith89]

[icon]031[/icon]Introduction

This is Wraith trying to spark up an intelligent conversation here on Project Pokemon. Intelligent conversation? Here on Project Pokemon? Insane right? I know! And this is me going overboard on a very simple subject, so bear with me.

I'm sure you were all drooling over the Blazing Glory of the elegant Reshiram or the Electrifying Brilliance of the powerful Zekrom when you were all playing Pokemon Black and White... but have you stopped to consider that monster living deep inside Giant Chasm, Kyurem? While we do not know its relationship with Reshiram and Zekrom, there are many things that suggest Kyurem is indeed related to the other two. But what? Before we find out, let us see what people think about Kyurem.

"It's a giant Zergling!"

~ Gin

"It's an angry dancing chicken!"

~ Tbird

"... still no match for me!"

~ Mewtwo EX

"Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww X_X"

~ UnderXRay

"What is this I don't even-"

~ Wraith89

"Bawk bawk bawk-"

~ Tbird

"Yeah but-"

~ Wraith89

"Bawk bawk!"

~ Tbird

"You know-"

~ Wraith89

"Baaaaaaawwwwkkk!"

~ Tbird

"Fine! It's a giant dancing chicken! Happy? :/"

~ Wraith89

"This thread is now Tbird :creep:"

~ Tbird

There is no doubt that not many Pokemon has raised as much eyebrows in Black and White as this mysterious icy dragon has. As you can see, there is not enough positive reception about this new dragon. Many just do not see its potential, and many are disappointed at what it turned out to become. But what if there is more to Kyurem than meets the eye? What if this dragon is not just a "filler" Pokemon as most of the other Unova Pokemon seem to be? First, I think we should try to understand what we DO KNOW about Kyurem. But of course, this thing ties to Reshiram and Zekrom in some way, so we need to find its connection between the two as well. Be warned, there will be spoilers in this section, so if you have not completed Pokemon Black and White's main storyline, then avert your gaze.

[icon]031[/icon]History of Unova Region

As N tells the story...

It is stated the two dragons were once one dragon. Yep, just one powerful dragon. Imagine how much powerful this one unified dragon would have been in comparison to the already powerful Reshiram and Zekrom we have right now. However, the split happened when these twin heroes who found the Unova region (Romulus and Remus anyone?) had different ideas on how to rule the region. The older brother wanted truth, while the younger brother wanted ideals. The dragon, who was used by both of them, did not know how to settle this, so it split into two. Reshiram would side with the older brother who sought truth, while Zekrom would side with the younger brother who sought ideals. The two fought in a catastrophic battle, but of course, as all of these plots go, neither of them could truly be considered better than the other, as both were equally powerful and all (face it, we all know that-*gets shot*) so the two brothers declared truce. They also reconciled their differences and said there really was no right side either, as both are needed for a reason. Yay, so we don't have a Romulus/Remus story here! But of course what happens?

Their sons continue the fight of course. Yeah, next generation are always filled with idiots, as seen in real life too. They did not heed their fathers' resolutions, and released the two beasts once again, causing a fight between the two once again. Joy. But what do destructive terrorists do again? Oh yeah, they destroy the region! Brilliant... all just to settle some philosophical differences? Right, smart people we have running Unova here. Destroying Unova with their Fire and Lightning powers during the war, you can imagine a lot of people and Pokemon lost their habitats and some even their lives during this struggle. The sons of the heroes probably realised this way too late before this catastrophe occurred. As for Reshiram and Zekrom? They probably realised this was just too pointless and causing wanton destruction, so the two left from the aftermath, never to be seen again...

[hgsssprite]109[/hgsssprite]Modern Unova Strife: SPOILERS START HERE

... until now, in this modern generation, N wants to use one of the dragons to create his ideal world where he wants to make a separate world for Pokemon and humans, and you, the protagonist, must stop him from doing so. Recreating the whole dragon fight once again, it seems N has convinced his dragon to join his side somehow, and give the hero time to get the other dragon, because he is convinced the hero is the one made to battle him. N decides to fight the Pokemon League Champion Alder to prove himself the most powerful trainer in Unova, and eventually, release all Pokemon so there will be a separate world for them and humans, so that they will not suffer under humans any longer. A story PETA would be proud of, huh?

N goes to Dragonspiral and takes the dragon that lay on top of it. Then he does defeat Alder somehow (Alder, how can you let your Level 77 Volcarona fall to N's Pokemon again?) and it is up to the protagonist to defeat N. N's castle rises and overtakes the Pokemon League, and the hero pursues N to stop him. The hero encounters two lovely ladies, Concordia and Anthea, in the castle, who tells him more about N's upbringing (for our sakes, I believe the male protagonist fits more in this story than the female, so I will refer to the hero as male).

"I am Anthea... Trainer. Before you go to confront my lord N, please take a moment to rest."

"Ah, good. Both you and your Pokémon have recovered energy... Trainers battle to practice their skills and to grow in experience, but never to hurt their Pokémon. My lord N has realized this, deep down in his heart... but he has spent too much painful time here in this Castle to admit it..."

~ Anthea

"I am Concordia. I give peace and comfort to N. N has been separated from people since he was young. He was brought up with Pokémon... Pokémon that were betrayed, mistreated and hurt by bad people. Ghetsis deliberately brought only those poor Pokémon closer to N. N was touched by their plight, and started pursuing the truth, thinking only of Pokémon. N's heart is pure and innocent. But there is nothing more beautiful and terrifying than innocence."

~ Concordia

Hmm, what could Ghetsis be up to? Anyhow, the protagonist catches up to N, and sadly, with no dragon of his own. N summons his dragon to fight the hero, and is rather disappointed that the hero is NOT the one. Or is he? The hero's stone lights up and suddenly the opposite dragon does return from obscurity, after all these years. N gives the hero a chance to catch the dragon. The hero gets his dragon on his side, and N, seeing how it is meaningless to have his Pokemon fight an injured party of N's, proceeds to heal the hero's party, and soon, the battle that determines the fate of this world's Pokemon commences. Somehow, the good guys always win, and of course, the hero triumphs over N.

N is horrified but Ghetsis, that old geezer, comes along and calls his own son a fool, showing that N's cause was pure but had no idea about the shadows behind him. Ghetsis wanted this whole Team Plasma charade not because he sympathised with N, but because he wanted EVERY Pokemon for himself! Plot twist! With no room for breathers, this jerk decides to fight the hero, and of course, he loses and Alder and Cheren arrests this crazy guy. Wow that was annoying. But of course, the dragon did see N's intentions and chose him for a reason. N's ideas of creating a separate world was not because he wanted harm, but because he thought it would be the best without realising there were Pokemon who did indeed love their trainers. N realises this and flies off with his dragon, never to be seen again, but wishes the hero good tidings before zooming off...

So who was N's dragon and the hero's dragon? Depends on your version of course! But I wonder how they will pull this off in the third version (if there should be). Anyhow, just one theory, but remember how Reshiram fought for truth while Zekrom fought for ideals? Which Pokemon seems more fit for which side? In my opinion, it seems N is more fit for using Zekrom, only because his ideas are "ideals", to have a perfect world for only Pokemon and one for humans, so none would hurt each other. The protagonist would naturally use Reshiram to fight for what is true, what is right, that while there are Pokemon who are abused by their trainers, there are also many who will lose their source of happiness and mutual relationships if this new world comes into fruition. To me, it just seems more logical if it were that way, but either way works apparently... no clue how, but that's what two versions are for.

[icon]031[/icon]The Kyurem We Know

Physically, what do we see? Kyurem looks rather incomplete. Its wings are not proportional to each other, looks awkward, and the general consensus is not in awe, but rather "this is the monster I came for"?

Kyurem has supposedly fallen down from an ice meteor into Giant Chasm. It is unclear where this meteor came from and how it originiated, but this is Kyurem's story.

[icon]031[/icon]The Kyurem They Know

Lacunosa Town... Population: 16. Oh boy, that is frighteningly low for a town, isn't it? The townspeople are weird in this town, because they are always outside in daytime, but NOBODY is seen outside during nighttime, not a single soul, in fact! The old woman in Lacunosa Town tells us the reason this fortified city behaves like this is because of an old story that during nighttime, a giant monster would come and take the humans and Pokemon in the town and devour them! Well, that might explain the low population in this town (though every towns not named Castelia City or Nimbasa City suffer this syndrome, but let's not get there for now). The people nowadays do not believe in this story (pssh nonbelievers), but of course, the ritual still occurs. No one comes out at night time and they only come out during the day. Either they do this because it is a tradition to uphold, they want to scare the people outside of Lacunosa Town, or they know something. Either way, this is the Kyurem Lacunosa Town knows, and whatever it is, this beast certainly made a name for itself in this town, but does it really eat humans and Pokemon? We may never know...

[icon]031[/icon]The Kyurem TrollGamefreak Knows

They're not telling us anything

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[hgsssprite]164[/hgsssprite]SPECULATIONS START HERE

That's the whole point of this thread! Speculate away! But remember that NONE of the following speculations are by all means true and everything can turn out completely different from what is being stated.

[icon]031[/icon]Kyurem's Untold Story

There is another rogue theory going about that Kyurem is the living corpse of the one dragon that Reshiram and Zekrom used to be. Though Reshiram and Zekrom are halves of each other, maybe there is a body like Ninjask's Shedinja lingering around. Could Kyurem be it? In fact, this might explain a few things.

• The Ice Meteor that fell was Kyurem, the old body, itself. As Reshiram and Zekrom came out of its old body, the two dragons proceeded to side with one of the two brothers, as its old body fell down to the earth, sustaining catastrophic damage, which explains Kyurem's old, chipped, and rather incomplete look.
  
• Kyurem may have possibly eaten people and Pokemon to sustain its aging body. After all, something needs food just to survive. And yet there are all sorts of Pokemon in Giant Chasm, so why would it not eat them? Perhaps Kyurem only ate certain things, maybe humans that decided to agitate it in a way (silly humans once again)? Maybe it protected the Pokemon living in the chasm and it is not the monster that people make it out to be (we all know humans are the masters and bait of propaganda)? Who knows?
  
• Perhaps the reason behind Kyurem's lack of ice power is because it was not originally an Ice Dragon but just a dragon itself? Let's see... meteors have ice-like properties, so it may have gained its ice typing during its fall. It is frozen, and learns some ice moves, and yet it cannot use Frost Breath? Interesting, but this may explain the lack of a "Fusion Ice" or its lack of Level 100 move, but more on that later.
  

[icon]031[/icon]Kyurem's Relationship With Reshiram and Zekrom

Reshiram's body is White, Zekrom's body is Black, but Kyurem's body is... look! It's Grey, the middle colour between Black and White. Could it symbol neutrality? Possibly. Could it also symbolise the next game to come? Of course it could! There's also very little doubt through their stats the three are related with each other. Let's take a look. I will bold out stuff that stand out and are similar. Underlined stuff are Kyurem's deviations from the other two.

Reshiram

Ability: TurboBlaze

HP: 100

Atk: 120

Def: 100

SpA: 150

SpD: 120

Spe: 90

BST: 680

Lv. 1 Fire Fang

Lv. 1 Dragon Rage

Lv. 8 Imprison

Lv. 15 Ancientpower

Lv. 22 Flamethrower

Lv. 29 Dragonbreath

Lv. 36 Slash

Lv. 43 Extrasensory

Lv. 50 Fusion Flare

Lv. 54 Dragon Pulse

Lv. 64 Imprison

Lv. 71 Crunch

Lv. 78 Fire Blast

Lv. 85 Outrage

Lv. 92 Hyper Voice

Lv. 100 Blue Flare

Zekrom

Ability: Teravolt

HP: 100

Atk: 150

Def: 120

SpA: 120

SpD: 100

Spe: 90

BST: 680

Lv. 1 Thunder Fang

Lv. 1 Dragon Rage

Lv. 8 Imprison

Lv. 15 Ancientpower

Lv. 22 Thunderbolt

Lv. 29 Dragonbreath

Lv. 36 Slash

Lv. 43 Zen Headbutt

Lv. 50 Fusion Bolt

Lv. 54 Dragon Claw

Lv. 64 Imprison

Lv. 71 Crunch

Lv. 78 Thunder

Lv. 85 Outrage

Lv. 92 Hyper Voice

Lv. 100 Bolt Strike

Kyurem

Ability: Pressure

HP: 125

Atk: 130

Def: 90

SpA: 130

SpD: 90

Spe: 95

BST: 660

Lv. 1 Icy Wind

Lv. 1 Dragon Rage

Lv. 8 Imprison

Lv. 15 Ancientpower

Lv. 22 Ice Beam

Lv. 29 Dragonbreath

Lv. 36 Slash

Lv. 43 Scary Face

Lv. 50 Glaciate

Lv. 57 Dragon Pulse

Lv. 64 Imprison

Lv. 71 Endeavor

Lv. 78 Blizzard

Lv. 85 Outrage

Lv. 92 Hyper Voice

As you can see, Reshiram and Zekrom have a LOT in common, almost as if they are polar opposites of each other (and they are)! Kyurem, on the other hand, have a LOT of things in common, especially in its fundamental level up moves. However, there are aberrants, such as a lack of a powerful signature move, Level 100 attack MISSING, and learning its Dragon Pulse 3 levels later than Reshiram. It learns Scary Face as opposed to a Psychic move that Reshiram and Zekrom would learn. Speaking of a Psychic move, TM03, Psyshock, is found in Giant Chasm. It would have been cool if Kyurem learned that naturally as opposed to Scary Face, but unfortunately, it was not meant to be. Gamefreak even trolled here hard by giving it Endeavor as opposed to Crunch, making it even harder to catch. Way to go! Also, unlike Reshiram and Zekrom, Kyurem does not have its own version of Mold Breaker, but instead, Pressure.

The most notable difference between Kyurem and the other two is its Base Stat Total, which ended up at a total of 660. 660?! Am I looking at this correctly?! Yes, unfortunately, you are. This Ice Dragon was stripped of 20 base stats and ended up this way... but why? How could Gamefreak get away with making a supposed "trio master" with stat total LOWER than its subordinates? This is another reason we feel as if Gamefreak left this dragon "incomplete" and perhaps, may be a subject of future reorganization.

Another possibility is, Gamefreak is trolling on Ice Pokemon like Articuno once again, and decided this would be their latest incarnation of hating on Ice Pokemon.

[icon]031[/icon]The Hidden Moves Factor

"Pssh... those fail moves?"

~ Gin

By searching into the internal game data of Pokemon Black and White, some unused attacks have been found! And this may indeed be an explanation of Kyurem's "missing" Level 100 moves. Two very powerful Ice moves which may as well be associated with Kyurem have been discovered, one named Ice Burn, and the other named Freeze Shock. Both of them have a base power of 140! That's very powerful actually, BUT, there is a reason why our competitively apt moderator Gin calls them fail. They're just another rendition of SKY ATTACK. So Gamefreak decided to troll again huh? These attacks leave the user helpless for the first turn, and executed on the second. Now isn't that brilliant? And if these attacks were to be Kyurem's signature moves-to-be, what practicality would they have for battling anyways when it leaves it right open?

Ice Burn is a SPECIAL 140 Base attack with 90% accuracy that has 30% chance of burning the opponent. An Ice attack burning someone? Isn't that interesting? Freeze Shock is a PHYSICAL 140 Base attack with 90% accuracy that has 30% chance of paralysing the opponent. The charge-up turn can be overriden with an item called Power Herb for one turn, but is that really worth the item slot?

In the future, this could mean a few things.

1) Kyurem will receive both moves as Level 100 attacks, OR through a special event.

2) Kyurem will only be able to utilise this moveset in a Double / Triple / Rotation battle with a Reshiram or Zekrom by its side. It has will not appear in single battles.

3) Kyurem will NOT receive these attacks but instead Reshiram will take Ice Burn while Zekrom will take Freeze Shock.

4) Gamefreak is just trolling and left it in there to laugh at the people who think they found something but in reality it is nothing they will work on.

For me, it's either #1 or #4... the latter because of my skepticism of Gamefreak altogether.

[icon]031[/icon]The God Stone Factor

So, remember how Zekrom was summoned by a Dark Stone while Reshiram was summoned by a Light Stone? There is a Grey Stone found in the game data as well, and it is called "God Stone". God Stone? Interesting, considering it is Grey, which automatically means it is related to Kyurem, or Gamefreak is just trolling. What if this item becomes a key item of usage later in a future game? Or what if like the Adamant, Lustrous, and Griesous Orbs of Gen IV, these items will be introduced as held items for the three dragons? Hopefully, this item may change Kyurem into a "more complete form" and abolish the charge-up requirements for all of its attack, but I will not hold my breath here, as that sounds way too good to be true. But hey, I can dream, can't I? And again, I will mention, Gamefreak may just be trolling.

[icon]031[/icon]Kyurem in the Competitive Scene

Kyurem is also competitively bereft, as many of us who have played the Gen V metagame know. Gamefreak continues to either overestimate Ice types, or just continues to hate on them, much like Articuno from the past. But Kyurem, who was quite possibly made to be an internal trio master, was given stats bereft of the other uber monsters, and a horrid defensive typing. Its signature move, Glaciate, was first thought to be Icy Wind on steroids, as it was ORIGINALLY thought to lower the foe's speed by 2 stages. Unfortunately, we got trolled hard on THAT too, for instead of lowering by 2 stages, it only lowers by 1 stage, and retains its imperfect accuracy that Icy Wind has. The only difference is the mere extra 10 base power difference Glaciate has to offer. Whoo hoo.

Kyurem, does, however, have 5 extra stat points in speed than many of the other Pokemon in the uber tier, who are stuck at 90 base speed. That isn't all too bad. It has an equally high attack and Special Attack, which ties with both Mamoswine and Glaceon, respectively, and its defences are rather respectable at 125/90/90, so all hope is not lost.

Gin, our competitive battling expert, used Kyurem as an anti-lead Dragon.

Kyurem @ Lum Berry

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed

Nature: Timid

Ability: Pressure

- Draco Meteor

- Glaciate

- Shadow Ball

- Focus Blast

Well, this was when we thought Glaciate lowered speed by 2 stages. Unfortunately, Deoxys-S will still get its 2 layers of spikes because the speed reduction is not enough. Kyurem seems best used as a wallbreaker, because Kyurem has the offensive stats and two of the best STAB options this game has to offer.

Kyurem @ Life Orb

EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Speed

Nature: Hasty / Naive

Ability: Pressure

- Draco Meteor

- Ice Beam

- Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Fire]

- Dragon Claw / Outrage

The EVs are intended to outpace + natured base 90s. Maxing Special Attack just because most of its attacks are used from the special side of the spectrum. The rest are put into attack so Dragon Claw gets powered up. You are welcome to pump more into speed in case a scary Rayquaza comes in or to outpace other Kyurems. Also, if Hidden Power Fire is elected, run 36 Atk / 252 SpA / 220 Speed as Fire forces you to run imperfect speed. This seems to be the most popular set used in Smogon for Kyurem just to get the most out of this dragon in its state now, and it is hard to wall once it comes in, as it resists Kyogre's attacks.

Well, that's it? Seemingly. Kyurem seems to be lacking compared to the other legendaries that made it to the Uber tier. In fact, if I recall correctly, Kyurem is allowed in STANDARDS. Yes, STANDARDS. That's pretty bad for something that was designed to be an uber monster, and rather humiliating. Our hopes only go to Gamefreak here, and they either WILL patch things up, or, of course, trolling us to the max. But the question is WHAT will they do?

[icon]031[/icon]The Giratina Factor

[sprite]487[/sprite] ---> [sprite]487-1[/sprite]

Remember Giratina? Unlike Kyurem, Giratina was a very able Pokemon to begin with even in Diamond and Pearl, but its story was largely unknown. Kyurem's case is begging for an alternative form, or gain something interesting in the next games. That would be an interesting plot to cover for Black and White SHOULD Kyurem be given that secondary form. Problem with this is, it will probably outclass the Kyurem we have almost entirely, or something will give. Maybe it will give away its attack powers just to boost its defences (defensive dragon/ice in ubers might be a bad idea!)... or perhaps given Multi-Scale as its ability or something! This is probably the most popular speculation of Kyurem held by Pokemon players so far; an alternative form. Something might just happen for our icy friend here, but then again, it can be another case of Gamefreak trolling on us Pokemon fans!

[icon]031[/icon]The Arceus Factor

[sprite]493[/sprite]

Or... they have a secret Pokemon stashed somewhere (649 is a weird Pokedex number to end it) and will be released in the 3rd version and happens to have pulled off his own creation and made Reshiram / Zekrom / Kyurem the way they were, and just happened to hate Ice Pokemon, much like Gamefreak. Then again, this theory is very implausible and is another way to explain Gamefreak has trolled on our Ice Dragon once more.

[icon]031[/icon]The Musketeer Connection

This may be a huge of a stretch, but haven't you noticed how many the minor trios of each generation (that aren't the Regis) are somehow related to the major trio of each generations? The pixies of Sinnoh are related to Dialga / Palkia / Giratina and Arceus ultimately or how Raikou / Entei / Suicune were related to Ho-oh or something? Meh, it isn't always the case I know.

One day, Tbird and I were discussing about Kyurem, he randomly trolled me and said "Keldeo is related too". Tbird tends to troll, but this time, he didn't troll, because somehow, he brought up a good point. Remember how the musketeers were supposedly defending Pokemon who lost their habitats against human assaulters? What if... just what if that war was the same war the second generation noobs engaged in during the Reshiram / Zekrom conflict? What if that whole catastrophic clash of fire and lightning has indeed been caused by the humans and the Pokemon during that time as well? Why was it that the original clash of Reshiram and Zekrom did not result in the utter destruction of Unova? Can it be that the fire/lightning was assisted by the many participants of the war... or the war has taken place for a much longer time before the second generation noobs found out it was too late? The Musketeers are hostile against the humans because... for a long time they combated the humans who harmed Pokemon! Though this theory is a stretch, it is possible that the same war between Reshiram and Zekrom is the same conflict that the Musketeers engaged in. Maybe Kyurem ate the belligerent humans during that time? Whatever the case, this theory does not see much light, but I can see a possibility in it, and it is possibly a largely untold part of Unovan history. Or... it is Gamefreak trolling us again by allowing us to come up with such absurd conclusions.

[icon]031[/icon]The Troll Factor

"Back then, gamefreak wasn't ''think electric rodent''. Now they are lazy and whiteness the evolution to complete the recycle... Or something. Lazy drawers. Can't think of a similar to nincada evo..."

~ Mewtwo EX

You know... just pause and think for one moment that probably... just maybe, Gamefreak is leaving all these clues just to make us think something is happening, but in reality, they're nothing but stuff to keep us excited for the next release. It's possible. I won't say this possibility does not exist, but for our sakes and for this whole world's sakes, let's hope this is not the case. Of course, in THIS situation, Gamefreak IS definitely trolling.

[icon]031[/icon]Closing Words

Kyurem by Tuooneo

Well, that is all for this icy dragon for now. I've shared every parts of thoughts that I have come across of this frozen mysterious dragon. I would like to know everyone else's thoughts about Kyurem, and what they might possibly do in the upcoming Grey version. And by now we know Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem are related in some way or another, even if we do not know HOW. If they do not come up with a Grey version, we know who is trolling us!

NOW YOUR TURN! Please share your thoughts about this icy dragon

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[icon]031[/icon]Since The Release of Pokemon Black/White 2

[sprite]386[/sprite][sprite]386-1[/sprite][sprite]386-2[/sprite][sprite]386-3[/sprite]

The Deoxys Factor?!

It is quite possible the new implementation of two different Kyurem forms might be the Deoxys treatment from Gen III, which is where Deoxys mainfested different forms depending on the version. Ruby/Sapphire had the normal Deoxys, Fire Red had the attack form Deoxys, Leaf Green had the defence form Deoxys, and Emerald had the speed form Deoxys. I admit I did not think of this before, but so far with the presentation of two Kyurems representing two different versions as opposed to a Grey version that we all speculated may only mean this is the way they are headed... or Gamefreak is trolling as usual.

Now we may know where Ice Burn and Freeze Shock may go to... and I suspect both forms specialise in different stats (Black Kyurem has better physical stats, White Kyurem has better special stats). Their typing and ability? Only time will tell, but some people speculate that Black Kyurem will sport an Ice/Electric typing while White Kyurem will sport an Ice/Fire typing. Personally, I don't buy that as I don't believe one can remove Kyurem's fundamental Dragon typing, but I'm not the one to talk. I was thinking more of Rotom's manifestation from Gen IV where it maintained its original typing while it changed forms (in Kyurem's case Dragon/Ice).

My personal speculation is a Dragon/Ice typed Kyurem with an ability that either boosts its Fire/Electric attacks to provide pseudo-STAB (depending on its form), an ability that hopefully removes charge up time (though they never added a new ability in-generation before), Levitate, or... troll us with the ubiquitous yet boring ability Pressure that the disfigured Kyurem has. The Black Kyurem will gain Electric attacks while White Kyurem will gain Fire attacks.

Just for reference, Ice/Electric types have weaknesses to Ground, Fire, Rock, Fighting and resist Ice, Electric, and Flying attacks. Ice/Fire types have a quadruple weakness to Rock (stupid Stealth Rocks), normal weakness to Fighting, Ground, Water and quadruple resist Ice, and normally resist Grass and Bug.

The two new Kyurems

Personally, I dislike the new forms in terms of aesthetics. I have no idea how they will function competitively nor do I know what promises they hold for the plot, but they are literally fusions of Reshiram/Zekrom and Kyurem. I feel they could have done better.

Edited March 1, 2012 by wraith89

[KyoMcFizzle]

I'm putting my money on the Giratina factor at this point. The burn and shock moves I'm also putting on Kyurem. Lord knows that Kyurem needs the upgrade. Besides, the way I see it, they'll probably use Kyurem and the god stone as a means of quelling the battle between the two dragons as far as story goes. I'll type more when I'm not tired.

Alright. Time for my coherent two bits on this matter:

As far as story goes, I'm going to go out on a limb and try and tie as much of the speculation together as I'm able. Taking into consideration the idea that the Musketeer Pokemon tie in to this story in some way, let's consider this:

Amidst the battle of the two ignorant sons of the original dragon users, Cobalion, Terrakion, and Virizion use their abilities to rescue dozens of Pokemon. In their attempt to try and save as many Pokemon as they can, the three Pokemon use their powers to revive the fallen shell that was once the mighty dragon that Reshiram and Zekrom split from. Assuming that the timeline goes:

-The one Dragon

-The one Dragon splits/Fall of the "Meteor" that created Giant Chasm

-Second Generation Battle

-The Great Fire that Cobalion, Virizion, and Terrakion are involved in

We can then assume that, upon reviving the fallen shell of the great dragon, Reshiram and Zekrom were in turn brought to their senses by the revival of the shell's resurrection (Linked minds perhaps since the two beasts originated from the shell?). After disappearing, Kyurem then went to devour the humans responsible for the destruction of the Unova region. Again, I know this is rough, but my mind isn't exactly functioning well enough to put together a more.... Fluid storyline. I'll probably revise this or something at some point or another. I'm going to hope that Kyurem gets a form change that better resembles the True Dragon's once complete form, but the drawback is that it doesn't have quite as much power. I'll bet that it'll exceed or rival Reshiram and Zekrom's base stats in this form, but will be a bit more on the defensive sides with decent attack stats (as was previously mentioned). Once can hope.

[Toffeuy]

Probably not true but that first idea that came to mind was that during the separation of Reshiram and Zekrom, a large excess of energy was released. This energy caused a mutation in a nearby pokemon (Vanilite?) which may explain its incomplete appearances. But personally, I never thought that any strong pokemon looked complete... (Mewtwo Ex will disagree with this)

I also believe that the story of Kyurem would be explained in the following game, if any.

Edited March 27, 2011 by Toffeuy

[KyoMcFizzle]

Probably not true but that first idea that came to mind was that during the separation of Reshiram and Zekrom, a large excess of energy was released. This energy caused a mutation in a nearby pokemon (Vanilite?) which may explain its incomplete appearances. But personally, I never thought that any strong pokemon looked complete... (Mewtwo Ex will disagree with this)

I'm.... Kinda borderline with this one. I agree with the release of energy sort of thing because that makes a bit of sense, but the mutation kinda makes me go, "Wait what?" Still, who am I to dismiss something in a speculation thread? As for the looking complete thing, I think it's more so the lack of symmetry on this Pokemon that throws people off.

[Toffeuy]

I'm.... Kinda borderline with this one. I agree with the release of energy sort of thing because that makes a bit of sense, but the mutation kinda makes me go, "Wait what?" Still, who am I to dismiss something in a speculation thread? As for the looking complete thing, I think it's more so the lack of symmetry on this Pokemon that throws people off.

Well I was thinking to myself, 'A pokemon comes out of nowhere solely because of the released energy?' Just doesn't work...

And btw wraith, typo:

Kyurem

Ability: Pressure

HP: 125

Atk: 130

Def: 90

SpA: 130

SpD: 90

Spe: 90

BST: 660

EDIT: I left out the meteor bit:

Lets just say the ice triggered the energy to create an ice-type pokemon and since the source of the energy is from a dragon, it also ended up as a dragon-type. Okay, i'm giving up on the mutation.

[aquaguy34]

Probably not true but that first idea that came to mind was that during the separation of Reshiram and Zekrom, a large excess of energy was released. This energy caused a mutation in a nearby pokemon (Vanilite?) which may explain its incomplete appearances. But personally, I never thought that any strong pokemon looked complete... (Mewtwo Ex will disagree with this)

So your telling me that if I take ice cream and use the excess energy ,i will get a giant frozen dragon with an incomplete body and dances like a chicken (sounds like robot chicken anyone?) along with the fact it has limbs? (I just had to point out the obvious contradictions)

[Toffeuy]

So your telling me that if I take ice cream and use the excess energy ,i will get a giant frozen dragon with an incomplete body and dances like a chicken (sounds like robot chicken anyone?) along with the fact it has limbs? (I just had to point out the obvious contradictions)

Maybe, O_O scientists don't analyse fictional elements. This is pokemon we're talking about here not real life. If the energy is derived from a pokemon, then maybe the pokemon's life source is transferred into the ice cream

[aquaguy34]

We all know that nintendo logic (as chuggaconroy calls it when a nintendo game makes a contradiction to real world logic) is very weird and unpredictable, but I don't think nintendo is THAT nuts.

[Guest]

Anyone remember what happened in Chargestone Cave?

Mainly what N told us at the very end.

Many different values mix together, and the world becomes gray... That is unforgivable!

I will separate Pokémon and people, and black and white will be clearly distinct!

I'm not sure if that could be of use, but hey.

[Doc]

I believe that kyurem is the broken remains of the 1 dragon pokemon that reshiram and zekrom once were. I thought that perhaps he will only be capable of learning one of those hidden moves at a time and then with this move, and a special hold item, his type would change accordingly, if he knows ice burn he becomes dragon/fire and if he knows freeze shock he becomes dragon/electric, maybe not exactly like that but i think perhaps he will somehow have the ability to be all three type combos (dragon/ice, dragon/fire, dragon/electirc), but after the split, reshiram came off with his fire powers, zekrom came off with his electirc powers and kyurem crashed down becoming a weak shadow of his former self, losing his control of fire and electric and therefor losing his ice burn and freeze shock moves, and now he hides away in that cave waiting for a way to regain his former power and kick reshiram and zekrom's butts into next week.

or something like that.....

[wraith89]

Wow, there is a lot of interesting stuff going on here. If there is another form, I just hope it retains its Ice typing... only because if it does not, Gamefreak has succeeded in making Ice type look inferior once again. D:<

Whatever the case, we will know in the next game (should it come). That quote from N Pingouin stated somewhat interests me and might correlate to the central plot of a Grey version.

Ewww typo. Thanks Toff, that would have been a grave error on my part...

And Toff, there are no Vanillites near Giant Chasm

Also, the notion of Kyurem's incompleteness is indeed derived from its lack of symmetry. However, it is also from its battling prowess too, as mentioned, as it lacks 20 base stats from being even equal to Reshiram and Zekrom and is aberrant in the moves it learns, which makes you wonder why Gamefreak would let their designers get away with a "trio master" in this ridiculous form? It looks like it is begging for a simple upgrade of some sorts. This isn't foreign as upgrades were done during Gen IV to some Pokemon like Giratina and Rotom (though the former is mostly a form change rather than an upgrade), but perhaps they are trying a different approach this time?

I think they ran out of time, threw some random thing in, called it the Ice Dragon, and said "Hey just wait until Grey version! We'll make something cool out of this guy! We promise!"

*stares at Farfetch'd, Delibird, Luvdisc, and a whole slew of other Pokemon who were on the "upgrades wanted" waiting list*

"We'll get to them too! Really!"

[Gin]

As I've said earlier, I think they'll be putting in a form change or something. Kyurem is too ugly as of now. Anyone think that 650 could be a return of the 'one dragon'? Also, I have a feeling that pressure will be replaced with something that takes away charge up time. It's not like they'll give it Ice Mold breaker, as it'd be absolutely useless.

[wraith89]

So far, there is no ability that gets rid of Charge up time, but they may come up with one by that time? I haven't seen new abilities added internally within a generation yet, but hey, they changed HYPNOSIS's accuracy within a Generation as well, so who knows? I'm just assuming an item like Griesous Orb will be made to give that effect of getting rid of charge time.

Not that Pressure is a bad ability, mind you, but it's just boring as most Uber monsters just have it. I'm betting on a form change as well, but how they will execute it, we don't know.

[Gin]

The more I look at Kyurem, the more parallels I see with Giratina. I'm certain now that something will be done. Actually, as both Reshiram and Zekrom are ground weak, they may even add on levitate and make the new orb fix its moves?

[wraith89]

LEVITATE. Just like Origin Forme Giratina. If that happens, at least Kyurem will have equal amounts of resistance/immunities as weaknesses (the only other Ice type I can think of right now that has that property is Froslass). What if it also gains the ability to use Fire and Electric moves? I know it sounds ridiculous, but that would be pretty cool.

[Gin]

What's the concept kyuurem is supposed to represent? That could help enlighten us on what will happen next.

[wraith89]

Apparently "neutrality" or the absence of energy (represented by Ice). Reshiram and Zekrom are two extremes, one representing Yin and the other Yang, both positive energies of some kind (Fire and Lightning). Also notice their "turbine-esque" tails. Kyurem shares that trait with the other two as well (though it resembles a plug more).

Reshiram's White, Zekrom's Black, Kyurem's Grey. Now you tell me what that's supposed to be

[aquaguy34]

Remember guys Kyurem is Wuji (the borderline between yin and yang) which means "neither" and in some cases "both" so that would somewhat explain Kyurem's incompleteness.

[JellyRulerZ]

I agree with the idea of Kyurem being the empty shell of the original dragon, but i have an idea on how it got its icy powers. So both zekrom and reshiram are weak to ground, so maybe the original dragon was ground type, but froze when its's only source of heat (fire and lighting) left. so if/when kyurem is becomes whole, it's alternate form might be ground and dragon. just an idea

[KyoMcFizzle]

Wow, there is a lot of interesting stuff going on here. If there is another form, I just hope it retains its Ice typing... only because if it does not, Gamefreak has succeeded in making Ice type look inferior once again. D:<

Whatever the case, we will know in the next game (should it come). That quote from N Pingouin stated somewhat interests me and might correlate to the central plot of a Grey version.

Ewww typo. Thanks Toff, that would have been a grave error on my part...

And Toff, there are no Vanillites near Giant Chasm

Also, the notion of Kyurem's incompleteness is indeed derived from its lack of symmetry. However, it is also from its battling prowess too, as mentioned, as it lacks 20 base stats from being even equal to Reshiram and Zekrom and is aberrant in the moves it learns, which makes you wonder why Gamefreak would let their designers get away with a "trio master" in this ridiculous form? It looks like it is begging for a simple upgrade of some sorts. This isn't foreign as upgrades were done during Gen IV to some Pokemon like Giratina and Rotom (though the former is mostly a form change rather than an upgrade), but perhaps they are trying a different approach this time?

I think they ran out of time, threw some random thing in, called it the Ice Dragon, and said "Hey just wait until Grey version! We'll make something cool out of this guy! We promise!"

*stares at Farfetch'd, Delibird, Luvdisc, and a whole slew of other Pokemon who were on the "upgrades wanted" waiting list*

"We'll get to them too! Really!"

First off, I'm appalled by the lack of, oh, I don't know.... DUNSPARCE... On your list. >:C Also, the whole quote from N thing is somewhat self explained. Let's think back for a moment on the whole topic of the Original Dragon. Several different Ideals were mixed together during the era of this Pokemon. One brother sought this world of ideals, while the other sought the Truth. Perhaps this quote is merely meant as a reference to the creation of Reshiram and Zekrom. The separation of Truth and Ideals in to separate entities. The separation of Grey in to Black and White. Just a thought.

On the topic of the moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever), I'm liking the idea of eliminating the Charge Up time on these moves. Perhaps there will be an interesting turn of events here. Here's my hypothesis:

-Kyurem receives a Form Change of some kind and a new ability that eliminates charge up time; a permanent Red Herb ability, if you will. As such, his signature moves are then left open to be Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever).

-Reshiram and Zekrom both receive their respective moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock. HOWEVER, since these two do NOT have the aforementioned ability that reduces charge time, these moves are then made less effective on both dragons due to their only being HALF of the original dragon each. This could tie in on some level to Kyurem resembling and being the physical majority of the original dragon or some random story plot twist thing or whatever. Don't ask me.

-Form Change allows Kyurem to take on a more even form that may/may not resemble the original dragon OR both Reshiram and Zekrom.

On the topic of being to use Fire/Electric type moves, I wouldn't bet against it. If Kyurem really is a shell of the original dragon, then it's not too Farfetch'd (OH LOOK. LOOK. A PUN. A POKEMON PUN. AHAHAHAHAHA. I'M SO WITTY.) to assume that Kyurem would be able to learn lesser electric and fire type moves, such as Charge Beam or Incinerate.

Regarding the presence of neutrality with Kyurem, it makes a great deal of sense. Though I don't know how to expand upon the idea right now. HOORAY.

And lastly, ground dragon seems kinda.... I dunno. It almost feels way off, given the concept of Kyurem. I like the idea of Kyurem becoming an Ice type when its source of heat left, but at the same time why would it be ground type? Why not be something else that is a medium between Fire and Lightning? Again though, given the types in Pokemon, finding a Medium between the two is kinda hard. Perhaps the one dragon was just straight dragon type? Most Dragon types (KEY WORD: MOST) are capable of learning fire and electric type moves. Hydreigon, Druddigon, Palkia... Who said the original Dragon needed any other type?

And that's my two bits for now.

[JellyRulerZ]

good point on that, kyo. and you know now that i think about it ground really doesnt make much sense. Well i guess we'll find out, if gamefreak is nice enough.

[KyoMcFizzle]

good point on that, kyo. and you know now that i think about it ground really doesnt make much sense. Well i guess we'll find out, if gamefreak is nice enough.

Talked with a few people about the Pokemon Grey version issue that everyone is buzzing about. People are saying it would be advantageous for Nintendo if they released Grey on the 3DS, whereas everyone else is crying and whining that it needs to stay on the DS until this generation comes to a close. Since this is somewhat related, here's my educated prediction:

Pokemon Grey will be released for the DS, but there will be special 3DS Grey content released through the AR Cards method that the 3DS is currently implementing. Why? Let's discuss:

If Grey were to be released on the 3DS, it would require a complete system overhaul. You'd have to rewrite the entire game and really kick everything up a couple dozen notches in order to implement the 3D in to the game. Not only that, you'd be writing off dozens of fans and a lot of profit. Yes, having a Pokemon title on the 3DS would be a great boost to sales, especially in anticipation of trying to outself the NGP, but I'm hoping (And betting) that Nintendo will keep Grey on the DS as a final means to keep things in order.

[wraith89]

First off, I'm appalled by the lack of, oh, I don't know.... DUNSPARCE... On your list. >:C Also, the whole quote from N thing is somewhat self explained. Let's think back for a moment on the whole topic of the Original Dragon. Several different Ideals were mixed together during the era of this Pokemon. One brother sought this world of ideals, while the other sought the Truth. Perhaps this quote is merely meant as a reference to the creation of Reshiram and Zekrom. The separation of Truth and Ideals in to separate entities. The separation of Grey in to Black and White. Just a thought.

On the topic of the moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever), I'm liking the idea of eliminating the Charge Up time on these moves. Perhaps there will be an interesting turn of events here. Here's my hypothesis:

-Kyurem receives a Form Change of some kind and a new ability that eliminates charge up time; a permanent Red Herb ability, if you will. As such, his signature moves are then left open to be Freeze Burn and Ice Shock (Or whatever).

-Reshiram and Zekrom both receive their respective moves Freeze Burn and Ice Shock. HOWEVER, since these two do NOT have the aforementioned ability that reduces charge time, these moves are then made less effective on both dragons due to their only being HALF of the original dragon each. This could tie in on some level to Kyurem resembling and being the physical majority of the original dragon or some random story plot twist thing or whatever. Don't ask me.

-Form Change allows Kyurem to take on a more even form that may/may not resemble the original dragon OR both Reshiram and Zekrom.

On the topic of being to use Fire/Electric type moves, I wouldn't bet against it. If Kyurem really is a shell of the original dragon, then it's not too Farfetch'd (OH LOOK. LOOK. A PUN. A POKEMON PUN. AHAHAHAHAHA. I'M SO WITTY.) to assume that Kyurem would be able to learn lesser electric and fire type moves, such as Charge Beam or Incinerate.

Regarding the presence of neutrality with Kyurem, it makes a great deal of sense. Though I don't know how to expand upon the idea right now. HOORAY.

And lastly, ground dragon seems kinda.... I dunno. It almost feels way off, given the concept of Kyurem. I like the idea of Kyurem becoming an Ice type when its source of heat left, but at the same time why would it be ground type? Why not be something else that is a medium between Fire and Lightning? Again though, given the types in Pokemon, finding a Medium between the two is kinda hard. Perhaps the one dragon was just straight dragon type? Most Dragon types (KEY WORD: MOST) are capable of learning fire and electric type moves. Hydreigon, Druddigon, Palkia... Who said the original Dragon needed any other type?

And that's my two bits for now.

I didn't mention Stunfisk either, did I? But oh well, it's one of those new guys, so...

I would really like it if the charge was eliminated as well somehow. Then that would make the whole "charge up" effect a useless concept to begin with. Perhaps then, it was implemented only because Metronome *might* select those moves, or they may be available to Reshiram or Zekrom in the future, though they lack STAB and most possibly, require charge up, like you are saying. That sounds like a possibility indeed.

As for the Fire/Electric moves available on dragons, yeah, many dragons are able to utilise those two moves in particular. However, they tend to mess up these legendaries by giving them "specific" moves that fit their elements. I don't like how they do that with legendaries most of the time; an Ice legend is almost always stuck with just Ice moves, Lightning legends with mostly electric moves, and Fire legends with mostly Fire moves. That's how it usually ends up for the minor legendaries at least. I did state before that perhaps the original dragon was just "dragon", but I wouldn't want them to undermine the cool Ice type it has...but knowing Gamefreak... they PROBABLY WILL D:<

Ground/Dragon? Not another Garchomp/Flygon!

[Gin]

To 'fix' Kyurem, they need to first do the following:

A)Fix its stats

B)Fix its movepool

C)Give it flavor or make it standout

D)fix its appearance

I also don't like its typing, but I don't see how they'll get away with fixing that.

[wraith89]

To 'fix' Kyurem, they need to first do the following:

A)Fix its stats

B)Fix its movepool

C)Give it flavor or make it standout

D)fix its appearance

I also don't like its typing, but I don't see how they'll get away with fixing that.

Quoted For Truth

I just like its Ice typing because I'm just too much of an Ice type fan and it does provide a good offensive dual STAB. Defensively, yeah, not happening, but it hurts a lot.

Keep in mind the fact that Kyurem IS lacking flavour is the very reason it is standing out.