My New Team

[Illithian]

After my old team, which was half disaster, I decided to post a new one. I'm about to go test it on shoddy. Its a variation on another team I saw with quite a few changes.

Intro:

The goal here is to set up rocks, then put as much offensive pressure as possible on the opponent. I use Scizor, Jirachi, and Salamence for most of the actual fighting. Porygon2 is my reliable counter to Salamence, Gyarados, Jolteon, and Heatran. Latias allows for a powerful midgame fighter to deal with things I can't effectively counter with a STAB LO Draco Meteor and provides excellent coverage with Surf & Thunderbolt.

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Metagross @Lum Berry

Adamant | Clear Body

252 HP / 170 Atk / 80 Def / 8 Spe

Stealth Rock / Meteor Mash / Bullet Punch / Explosion

Standard Metagross lead. Bulky enough to set up rocks then explode in someone's face, usually good for atleast 1 KO. Against a Taunt user such as Aero or Azelf, Meteor Mash them on the Taunt and Bullet Punch for an easy KO, then Explode next turn for 2 easy KOs. Lum Berry helps against the occasional sleep lead.

Scizor @Life Orb

Adamant | Technician

252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def

Swords Dance / X-Scissor / Brick Break / Bullet Punch

Standard Scizor. Switch into something thats useless against it, Swords Dance, then sweep. Bullet Punch is the main attacking move on this set, as STAB Technician is pretty impressive. On the D/P metagame of our Shoddy, I'll probably switch Bullet Punch for U-Turn. X-Scissor for STAB and Brick Break for a powerful fighting attack + wallbreaking.

Jirachi @Leftovers

Timid | Serene Grace

252 HP / 80 SpA / 178 Spe

Calm Mind / Substitute / Flash Cannon / Thunderbolt

Standard Sub Calm Mind set. Flash Cannon is an unusual choice but has amazing coverage with Thunderbolt. 252 HP gives it 101 Subs. With a single Calm Mind she can OHKO most anything thats a SE, and with two or three she can sweep. Excellent against baton passers because while one pokemon sets up, she can spam Calm Mind safely behind a Sub then OHKO the switch-in and sweep the entire team.

Salamence @Life Orb

Naive | Intimidate

252 Atk / 36 SpA / 220 Spe

Dragon Dance / Dragon Claw / Earthquake / Fire Blast

Not standard. 220 Spe allows him out outspeed Gengar, his main high speed threat. I don't like getting locked into one attack, it makes prediction to easy, so I use Dragon Claw > Outrage. It lets Salamence sweep with more impunity and stay in longer.

Porygon2 @Leftovers

Bold | Trace

252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA

Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Recover / Thunder Wave

Defensive Duck is my new Gyarados, Salamence, Jolteon, Vaporeon, and Heatran counter, all in one. BoltBeam allows for excellent coverage along with 4x damage against Gyarados & Salamence. Recover is standard, and Twave is too threatening for many sweepers to say in. Trace allows for near infinite versatility and abusage of the abilities of others.

Latias @Life Orb

Modest | Levitate

6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Draco Meteor / Surf / Thunderbolt / Recover

New Latias set suggested by Enkidu. Surf is my only water attack on the whole team which is definitely needed. Thunderbolt helps with the occasional Gyarados that I'll face and Draco Meteor is a reliable, powerful STAB that'l OHKO or at the very least seriously damage most everything. Surf is a 2HKO on Scizor and Tyranitar after SR damage, which is a guaranteed setup with Metagross unless I'm against an anti-lead. She can survive CB Bullet Punch from scizor for a 2HKO if I get Surf on a switch in. Essentially, a very useful set that I can pull out midgame.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Illithian

[Enkidu]

Metagross/Scizor/Jirachi/Salamence/Dusknoir/Latias

Kinda cool.

So anyway, you have a Large Dragon Dance Tyranitar weakness. After One dragon dance ( assuming stealth rock is up ) he will OHKO the majority of your team with his Crunch/Stone edge/Earthquake/Dragon dance set.

All you need to fix this is a Strong STAB earthquake or Any kind of fighting attack.

However by association you also have a Rather large Dragon dance Salamence and Dragon dance Gyarados weakness. Stealth rock may hamper them a little bit but your overall lack of a Strong Rock attack and Strong Fighting attack is the main concern I have with your team.

Salamence is not outspeeding any gengar because the majority of them run Timid and 252 Speed Ev's. You have scizor though, so he's a much better Gengar counter than Salamence could be. Just remember to Bullet punch, and not pursuit as many of them tend to Run Hidden power fire nowadays.

However despite these weakness's, most teams are weak to one of those three giants in one way or another. So it's definitely a problem you can work around.

On Scizor, since your running the swords dance set you NEED 224 Speed Ev's. Why? Because without a Swords dance or Choice band your bullet punch can't OHKO Tyranitar. So a faster Superpower/Brick break is a Must. Unless you want to risk being One hit KO'd ) It also lets you outspeed and 2HKO skarmory and snorlax with superpower Assuming you have at least 1 Swords dance when they switch in. If the latter doesn't concern you, add 56 Speed Ev's and swap Superpower for Brick break.

On that note, you do not have a proper status absorber, and not a single bug attack aside from Scizor's X-Scissor. Meaning Thunder wave can cripple your entire team, Psychics like Celebi and Azelf can run through your team almost unhindered and open up a large hole for the opponents team to sweep.

So in order to address these weakness's I suggest you switch out dusknoir for a Porygon2.

Porygon2 @ Leftovers

Trace and a Bold Nature

252 HP / 216 Defense / 40 Special attack

Thunderbolt

Icebeam

Recover

Thunder wave

This lets you spread around parlysis to it's common switch ins, while Trace stops any Gyarados/Salamence/Jolteon/Heatran/Vaporeon cold. But at the same time acts as a decent wall that isn't weak to pursuit and can Kill off many of the common frailer threats as it is only weak to fighting.

However if you want to go more offensively ( and I use this set myself ) you can use this infernape over that Porygon2 ( as it also helps cover up your Giant zapdos weakness )

Infernape @ Life orb

4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Jolly with blaze

Closecombat

Swords dance

Stone edge

Flare Blitz/Earthquake

This lets you take care of alot of pokemon after a swords dance. Any pokemon that does not pump EV's into Hp and Defense will be seriously dented by Close combat after a swords dance. A + 2 Life Orb stone edge OHKO's Gyarados and Salamence after intimidate, OHKO's zapdos. +2 Close combat has a high chance of OHKOing Vaporeon ( after stealth rock damage ) Milotic and swampert.

The only problem is that without some serious predicting, switching in Infernape is not the easiest task.

Anyway, Hope I helped. There are a few other issues, but I'm sure someone else will adress them.

[Illithian]

Metagross/Scizor/Jirachi/Salamence/Dusknoir/Latias

Kinda cool.

Thank you.

So anyway, you have a Large Dragon Dance Tyranitar weakness. After One dragon dance ( assuming stealth rock is up ) he will OHKO the majority of your team with his Crunch/Stone edge/Earthquake/Dragon dance set.

All you need to fix this is a Strong STAB earthquake or Any kind of fighting attack.

Superpower on Scizor is quite a powerful fighting attack; unfortunately, STAB earthquake is going to be hard. I need help figuring out who to switch out for someone that can get a STAB on EQ.

However by association you also have a Rather large Dragon dance Salamence and Dragon dance Gyarados weakness. Stealth rock may hamper them a little bit but your overall lack of a Strong Rock attack and Strong Fighting attack is the main concern I have with your team.

Interestingly enough, I generally am able to get my own Salamence in before they can get theirs, DD on the switch to their own and OHKO with dragon claw. On Gyarados, I like to throw in my Jirachi and OHKO with thunderbolt, but otherwise I have nothing against one.

Salamence is not outspeeding any gengar because the majority of them run Timid and 252 Speed Ev's. You have scizor though, so he's a much better Gengar counter than Salamence could be. Just remember to Bullet punch, and not pursuit as many of them tend to Run Hidden power fire nowadays.

K.

On Scizor, since your running the swords dance set you NEED 224 Speed Ev's. Why? Because without a Swords dance or Choice band your bullet punch can't OHKO Tyranitar. So a faster Superpower/Brick break is a Must. Unless you want to risk being One hit KO'd ) It also lets you outspeed and 2HKO skarmory and snorlax with superpower Assuming you have at least 1 Swords dance when they switch in. If the latter doesn't concern you, add 56 Speed Ev's and swap Superpower for Brick break.

I was thinking of swapping Superpower for Brick Break anyway because of the Atk/Def loss and the nice screenbreaking effect, but the base power on Superpower is hard to resist. I'll move the HP EVs into Speed.

On that note, you do not have a proper status absorber, and not a single bug attack aside from Scizor's X-Scissor. Meaning Thunder wave can cripple your entire team, Psychics like Celebi and Azelf can run through your team almost unhindered and open up a large hole for the opponents team to sweep.

I entirely agree; after about an hour testing this team on shoddy smogon, I noticed that in general I don't end up following my own strategy and recklessly throw out Latias or Dusknoir towards any status that comes up, mainly because they are the least useful. (sadly, I throw these two out against basically any attack that I can't take care of) Its worth mentioning that Azelf sweepers are becoming quite rare as most are suicide, but Scizor is my only effective counter for psychics I go up against. Lack of a dark type attack and a water attack outside of Latias is my downfall since Latias is basically late game cleanup or fodder.

So in order to address these weakness's I suggest you switch out dusknoir for a Porygon2.

Porygon2 @ Leftovers

Trace and a Bold Nature

252 HP / 216 Defense / 40 Special attack

Thunderbolt

Icebeam

Recover

Thunder wave

This lets you spread around parlysis to it's common switch ins, while Trace stops any Gyarados/Salamence/Jolteon/Heatran/Vaporeon cold. But at the same time acts as a decent wall that isn't weak to pursuit and can Kill off many of the common frailer threats as it is only weak to fighting.

Interesting. Its quite possible, and I very much like the idea. I'll put him in and see how it goes.

However if you want to go more offensively ( and I use this set myself ) you can use this infernape over that Porygon2 ( as it also helps cover up your Giant zapdos weakness )

Infernape @ Life orb

4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Jolly with blaze

Closecombat

Swords dance

Stone edge

Flare Blitz/Earthquake

This lets you take care of alot of pokemon after a swords dance. Any pokemon that does not pump EV's into Hp and Defense will be seriously dented by Close combat after a swords dance. A + 2 Life Orb stone edge OHKO's Gyarados and Salamence after intimidate, OHKO's zapdos. +2 Close combat has a high chance of OHKOing Vaporeon ( after stealth rock damage ) Milotic and swampert.

The only problem is that without some serious predicting, switching in Infernape is not the easiest task.

The problem with infernape is Stone Edge; I've had many bad experiences with it, and honestly I think Porygon-Z will be more useful. However that doesn't solve my Zapdos problem.

[Enkidu]

Yea it puts a lot of teams in quite a spot, as there is rarely any team that ISNT weak to either Infernape/Zapdos/Gyarados/Salamence or Tyranitar as they are incredibly different pokemon and each is powerful in their own way.

I was thinking of swapping Superpower for Brick Break anyway because of the Atk/Def loss and the nice screenbreaking effect, but the base power on Superpower is hard to resist. I'll move the HP EVs into Speed.

Yea, it's just after a swords dance Superpower is such a powerful attack that often times it worth it. Brick break is definitely a better option on the Swords dance set though.

I entirely agree; after about an hour testing this team on shoddy smogon, I noticed that in general I don't end up following my own strategy and recklessly throw out Latias or Dusknoir towards any status that comes up, mainly because they are the least useful. (sadly, I throw these two out against basically any attack that I can't take care of) Its worth mentioning that Azelf sweepers are becoming quite rare as most are suicide, but Scizor is my only effective counter for psychics I go up against. Lack of a dark type attack and a water attack outside of Latias is my downfall since Latias is basically late game cleanup or fodder.

Latias is a monster in it's own right though, If you used this set it would clear up your jolteon weakness a little better and still give you a reliable check to things like Infernape ( as tentacruel/Latias are the two best infernape counters ) among other things.

Latias @ Life orb

Timid with Levitate

4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Draco Meteor/Dragon pulse

Surf

Thunderbolt

Recover

So this set seems almost the same, EXCEPT! It's job is not to come in and Calm mind up ( giving your opponent a turn to switch or whatever else )

Bring this baby in Mid game when you KNOW your opponents pokemon like Scizor/Tyranitar/Latias have at least switched into Stealth rocks once already.

As latias switches in to whatever is out, surf first turn hitting whatever switches in. Surf will 2HKO Tyranitar and scizor after stealth rock damage ( so if they are at 95% or less its a 100% chance for a 2HKO ) And Latias has enough to bulk to survive 1 Choice band bullet punch after SR damage at full life )

If its a zapdos, Draco meteor is a OHKO after stealth rocks damage, so even if you predict it coming in and miss, you outspeed it and get another chance to hit it. However this Latias is not a zapdos counter and the same way it is unsafe for Zapdos to switch into this, it is unsafe for Latias to switch into it.

[Illithian]

Okay, I'm going to switch Latias to that set. Jirachi is already quite a reliable calm minder so I should be fine without Latias as one.

However, I still need a STAB Earthquake somewhere. Assistance please?

[That Pokemon Guy]

I'm kind of new to this kind of thing, but for STAB Earthquake, why not just use a Ground type Pokemon like Dugtrio or Golem or something like that?

[Illithian]

I'm kind of new to this kind of thing, but for STAB Earthquake, why not just use a Ground type Pokemon like Dugtrio or Golem or something like that?

I was more talking about who to switch out.

I might want a Gliscor over those two, or a Flygon, for Spikes immunity.

Update: I'm definetly looking into a Gliscor. I like both Dancing Tank and Defensive sets (from smogon) but I'm stumped as who to switch.

Metagross: Can't really switch out my lead =\

Scizor: As lategame cleanup, he is invaluable...

Jirachi: I can't take her out, she has absolutely destroyed teams with sub calm mind

Salamence: Most likely to take out, but STAB DD + Dragon Claw is really useful

Porygon2: Also possible, but hes just so useful

Latias: Surf is invaluable, I can't take her out

Edited May 8, 2009 by Illithian

[Enkidu]

I'm kind of new to this kind of thing, but for STAB Earthquake, why not just use a Ground type Pokemon like Dugtrio or Golem or something like that?

Well first off, even though Dugtrio gets STAB on it, he's not particularly easy to switch in as almost anything can kill him. He also only have 1 Immunity and low attack.

Golem has too many weakness's to common attacking types and is slow. He wouldn't get the chance to use it most of the time.

Good users of earthquake are pokemon like

Flygon/Gliscor/Gyarados/Metagross/Salamence/Mamoswine/Swampert/Hippowdon and Tyranitar et cetera

Although I really have a soft spot in my heart for certain UU/NU pokemon like

Claydol/Kangaskhan/Venusaur/Rampardos/Nidoqueen/Marowak/Magmortar/Drapion

You get the picture

[NukaNeka]

Kinda cool team it's true.

Metagross~

You don't know how you want EQ over MM/Bullet Punch and Occa Berry.

It's your only way to face Infernape and Heatran leads.

Also I don't get how does those EVs work, and why you are not using the 252 HP/236 Attack/12 Def/4 Speed, but meh.

Scizor~

I think that the bulky or not-bulky CBScizor will be better:

Scizor@Choice Band

176 HP/100 Attack/176 SpD/88 Def/8 Speed [bulky]

OR

92 HP/252 Attack/164 Speed [Not-Bulky]

~Bullet Punch

~U-Turn

~Superpower

~Pursuit

Jirachi~

Good IMO.

Salamence~

Again, it's good though there are better Mence sets IMO.

Porygon2~

Use:

Porygon@Leftovers

228 HP/188 Def/92 SpA

~Discharge/Thunder Wave

~Ice Beam

~Recover

~Toxic/Thunderbolt

You go with Dischrge you have Toxic, you go with TBolt you have Thunder Wave.

This spread reaches the Lefties recovery and has better OHKOing rate against Salamence and Dugtrio.

Latias~

Fine.

[Illithian]

Interesting that you bring that up, I just faced a BP team who's Ninjask passed 3 SD and 6 speed boosts. I let that happen because I had 6 CMs safely behind my substitute =)

Anyway, like I said before, Gliscor and Flygon are my prime choices. Flygon is looking like a pretty good choice, but Gliscor's high defenses are quite tempting. I would use a Scarfgon set with Earthquake, Outrage, Stone Edge, and U-Turn. Mostly as a Scarftran counter, but it has a lot of possibilities as a revenge killer or as a scouter.

Again, switching out Salamence, whom's fire blast has helped me more then any single other move on the entire team, is a huge risk. He can easily net me 3 KOs and give me a great advantage over the other team.

Switching Porygon2 is almost impossible at this point; hes sweeped a team with Speed Boost, destroyed Gyarados & Salamence, offered me a free switchin with choice heatran, and ran BP Jolteon's far, far away.

[NukaNeka]

If you are using a ScarfGon~

Flygon@Choice Scarf

60 HP/252 Attack/172 Speed/24 SpA

Lonely Nature

~Earthquake

~U-Turn

~Stone Edge

~Fire Blast

24 SpA allows you to 2HKO Standard Skarmory, not much to tell.

If you are using a Gliscor~

Gliscor@Leftovers

116 HP/176 Def/216 Speed

~Earthquake

~Taunt

~Fire Fang

~Roost

allows you to Outrun Jolly max Speed lucario and to OHKO with EQ.

[Illithian]

Putting taunt on Gliscor is a complete waste. Fire Fang is half useless. I'd use:

Gliscor @Yache Berry

252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe

Swords Dance / Roost / Earthquake / Stone Edge

For Flygon, not using his dragon STAB is a waste, and I'm not worried about Skarmory.

Earthquake / Outrage / Stone Edge / U-turn

I already have Fire Blast and I'm in dire need of Stone Edge and an EQ STAB.

[NukaNeka]

116 HP/176 Def/216 Speed

use this spread for Gliscor, it's much better.

Also if you are not using a MixedFlygon Skarmory and Forretress blocks you, even scizor.

And I forgot the STAB on Flygon, use Outrage over Stone Edge.