[Complete] Shield and Sword (Bulky Offense OU RMT)

[Sabeta]

Team at a Glance

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Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Levitate

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

- U-turn

- Outrage

- Earthquake

- Crunch

Notes: Flygon has recently been seeing a lot more usage lately. He has your typical movepool that acompanies dragons, and 100 base attack and speed, a midling combination that for a while netted him little usage; however, with advent of U-Turn and the Choice Scarf, he began to find his place on more and more teams as a scout. Often times all he simply needs to do is U-turn, and he's done his job. Depending on the pokemon sent out, i retreat to the ideal counter, or a Pokemon that can set-up on it. According to a guide I once read, your lead is almost always two Pokemon. The actual lead, and a Pokemon to support it, so that your lead can often get it's job done. Swampert is in this case the back-up. While they don't offer perfect synergy in the sense that they resist each other's weaknesses, they don't have a common weakness, and can each stand their own ground; making them a formidable duo.

Pros: There are many pros to Flygon. First and foremost is his amazing ability to pick and prod at the opposing team, getting them to expose all of their juicy little secrets. Once armed with the knowledge of their team, I can proceed to wear down the other team members. Once I've cleared out any Steel Types; obliterating large chunks of the opponents team with Outrage becomes pretty easy. He's also fast enough to outpace Dragonite, Gyarados, and Kingdra after one DD. If I've scouted the steels I know Outrage is safe (especially since people are disinclined to switch out once they have their DD.) Another great thing about Flygon is that he doesn't care about where he is. What I mean is, he resists Stealth Rocks, is immune to both forms of Spikes, is immune to Sand Storm, and has a good number of resistances under his belt to thwart enemy attacks. Definitely one of the better Pokemon on the team.

As a lead: As a lead he offers unique advantages, mostly in his ability to simply U-turn out, breaking sashes and doing decent damage along the way; however this is typically the extent of his utility, for leading purposes, but it gives me a free switch in to the counter of my choice, an invaluable trait. He also has great longevity, often times lasting me the entire battle, and more often than not cinching the win.

Cons: The cons to Flygon aren't many. One of the few is his Lackluster power. I can't count the number of times I've launched an Outrage at 80% Health, only to watch as it hangs on with 2% and returns with a Blaze'd Flare Blitz, dropping us both. Others are my weakness to Ice and Dragon. Most any Pokemon with Ice Shard can scare him off, and Dragonite at +2 is now faster/can kill, so it's not always the ready solution.

As a lead: As a lead the only con is that he can't prevent Stealth Rocks from going up on my side of the team, nor do I have an answer should I find Flygon being outpredicted, leaving me open, and forced to switch normally. He also doesn't do a vast amount of damage, and choiced sometimes hurts him badly, especially late game if my opponent has the advantage, but otherwise he's great.

Lead Mini Threatlist

Little to no Threat

Threat level is contextual; can provide a problem if given opportunity

I have no answer for this; Good Game

• Suicide Lead:Simply U-Turn out. Most of the time to Scizor, who can finish it with Pursuit/Bullet Punch.
  
• Dual Screener Lead: Their First priority is always going to be screens; I will rip them open fairly quickly with U-Turn. Lack of Sash ruins them.
  

• Anti-Lead:I U-Turn out. He's one of the biggest threats to my team. I don't have any perfect counter to him, all I can do is absorb his attacks, and wear him down with my Pokemon.
  

• Standard Lead:U-Turn to break his Sash, and a quick switch to Swampert. Most Aero's don't feel threatened, and stay in to EQ/Taunt, while I finish them with Avalanche.
  
• Power Herb Sky Attack: I didn't even know this was a set. Perhaps it's just a gimmick. Regardless it nuked me once with Sky Attack and I sure as hell wasn't prepared for it. Still it's not much of a threat.
  

• Standard Suicide Lead: U-Turn out to Shaymin, or Swampert. Swampert can set-up rocks, then Roar it to before it causes trouble (if it is Agili-Lead) or if I go the Shaymin route, I simply Leech Seed (Sometimes they switch, and if not I get free HP) then Earth Power.
  

• Standard Leadpert:U-Turn to shaymin.
  

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Swampert (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Torrent

EVs: 52 HP / 216 Def / 80 Spd / 160 SDef

Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)

- Avalanche

- Earthquake

- Roar

- Stealth Rock

Notes: Swampert is here primarily for Stealth Rocks support, but also as a Bulky Phazer. The only thing that I can't Phaze with this set, is Gyarados, but I'm not going to sit around letting him set-up anyways, especially if Taunted. Swampert is an all around amazing Pokemon, with great Bulk providing easy switch-ins, and Roar to get rid of Pokemon setting up (Especially greedy ones.) I chose Avalanche largely for Dragonite. It can survive (Barely) a +2 Outrage from him, but unfortunately Draco Meteor (Which is somewhat rare on these in favor of Super Power) will often manage to kill me, especially if I'm at around 80% Battle Damage.

Pros: So many, lol. First and foremost, is perhaps my ability to scout the enemy team some with the almighty Roar. Accompanied with naturally great Bulk, Swampert is a great Pokemon. Roar is an amazing Phazing move, especially when my opponents try to get greedy, not thinking of Swampert as any kind of threat. (I once roared away +4 Speed and +1 Attack, and a Substitute. That would have hurt, lol.) Excellent typing, boasting its only weakness as Grass, and having both Water and Ground STABs. Great in general Pokemon, who complements my Lead very well, as well as the rest of the Team.

Cons: That 4X Weakness to Grass can really hurt Swampy, especially if it comes from an unexpected source. Most of the time is someone automatically switches something into Swampert, it's my que to Get the hell out of there. Usually it's weaknesses are anything faster than it with a Grass type move, these being Zapdos, Jolteon (Occasionally) and Infernape. It's also prone to status ailments, such as Poison, but Elec Immunity helps it considerably. (Thunder Wave)

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Scizor (M) @ Choice Band

Trait: Swarm

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

- U-turn

- Bullet Punch

- Superpower

- Pursuit

Notes: Scizor, need I say more? No? Well too bad. Once upon a time, Scizor was the single most Ou Pokemon ever. He consitantly sees more than 25% Usage ratings, and even now he's #2. The ability Technician gives the otherwise weak Bullet Punch and Pursuit, ample Power to spare. This particular set is great at scoring revenge kills, as well as nuking things in general. There really isn't a whole lot to say here, we all know just how epic Scizor is.

Pros: Provides some amazing support and damage later in the game; especially around mid-game were scouting becomes the number one focus. Raw Damage and great typing help him to be a force to be reckoned with, and with this move line-up there isn't a lot that gets in his way. He's number two for a reason, and that reason is his perfect counter Heatran (Unless Fire Blast Misses, but I'll usually be locked into notsuperpower anyway). He provides Synergy with Flygon, allowing for some Double Switch action going on with U-Turn.

Cons: Scizor is the epitome of Revenge Killers, but he doesn't quite shine as well anywhere else. He often can't pull off large sweeps, because a good number of his moves are fairly easy to wall. Being Choiced can also hurt him pretty badly as well, what with him being locked into a move I don't particularly need atm. Huge weakness to Fire, which Heatran laughs at. He's also easy to trap with Magnezone, especially since this one is Banded, but Oh well. a fair trade-off for such destructive power.

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Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge

Trait: Clear Body

EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 Spd

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Hydro Pump

- Rapid Spin

- Sludge Bomb

- Toxic Spikes

Notes: Spinner. I needed this desperately. Originally was a Vaporeon, who provided flawless Gyarados counters. I don't know if I can still deal with them (Surely not with Tenta), but this took precedence. Toxic spikes are a boon to my team, and a terror to many others. I know I don't have a ghost, but I don't need one. The Spikes are useful, but I'm not dependant on them, if my opponent wants to spin them away, giving me a free turn, so be it. I will gladly accept that kind offer. Very nice special defense. the ability was supposed to be liquid ooze, and I'm sure I botched the Evs. Black sludge is so I can laugh at Trickers. Hydro Pump and Sludge Bomb are filler.

Pros: Good bulk, best spinner (imo) in the game, as well as auto TS removal, and Rapid Spin, the sole reason he's here. Not much else to say honestly. He's got average special attack, making him an adequate Scizor Counter, as well as good speed, and the bulk to take super effective thunderbolts and not explode. (I'm a jelly fish). Spikes are great for wearing down my opponents team, when I decide to use them. Rapid spin is mandatory. Not really a good sweeper, but a nice Pokemon in general to keep around. Solid Pokemon all-in-all.

Cons: It doesn't DO much of anything. It's more of a stall Pokemon than anything. It puts up spikes, then mostly just sits there. Lucky me, that's usually enough, as i can wear them down with Pump. Ghosts are always fun when they come and block me, as they almost always have thunderbolt, and can kill me, so that's never cool. Very weak on the physical side. This thing makes a great Infernape counter despite this. Hydro Pump likes to miss. I trust Fire Blast more than Pump. Steel dominated metagame usually renders Spikes inert, and other suck nuances that typically get in the way of a Pokemon. The average Field Life a Pokemon is 3 turns (Counting switch in). Not the best odds when I need to spin, and set up spikes.

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Heatran (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Flash Fire

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Earth Power

- Explosion

- Fire Blast

- Substitute

Notes: Heatran is currently Smogon's "Top Dog". with over 25% Usage rates. He's a highly versatile Pokemon, and despite his plethora of weaknesses, including Water, Ground, and Fighting; some of the most common attack types in the metagame, he finds it very easy to switch in, set up a Sub, and start blasting apart my foes. This guy loves to force Scizor out, and can counter a large number of other Pokemon as well. A good number of Pokemon who normally counter him, are no longer able to as soon as Substitute is introduced into the equation. A monstrous Pokemon, both physically, and aesthetically.

Pros: Hetran is an amazing Pokemon in the Ou environment. Even with some of the most common weaknesses in the metgame ever (See:Ground, Water, Fighting) he manages to be top dog of his tier. STAB Fire attacks are incredibly powerful. Mostly because they are super effective to the ubiquitous steel types who run rampant in this metagame with their plethora of resistances. Not only that, but Heatran boasts immunity to other Fire Types, and is a Steel type himself, allowing switch-ins nearly all the time. This particular set is great fun to use. Fire Blast and Earth Power provide pretty solid coverage most of the time, and a Subtitute typically allows me to sponge one attack; while either nuking them with my Fire, or Exploding when Heatrans done.

Cons: Alright, so his weaknesses are. Just about anything that has a STAB type advantage against him, barring a few select Pokemon; will wall and kill him. Of note are Suicune, Gyarados, and just about any Bulky Water to be honest. Explosion, is my panic button. A button I hit just a tad bit too often for my tastes. Ground type attacks ruin him, and he's pretty easy to revenge kill, so long as my opponent managed to break his sub. Luckily he has neutrality to rocks, but everything forces me out so often, that he grinds away his own life, before anyone even does it themselves (Substitute doesn't help this point).

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Shaymin @ Leftovers

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 216 HP / 252 Spd / 40 SAtk

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Aromatherapy

- Hidden Power Ice

- Earth Power

- Seed Flare

Notes: In any Bulky Offense team, a Status remover is fairly important. Freeze/burn poison, Status conditions fly everywhere, and my Pokemon just plain don't like it. some don't mind Status, but all of mine hate it. Seed Flare and Earth Power provide excellent coverage. (Why is it that Heatran always seems to forget that Shaymin knows Earth Power?) I decided to use HP Ice, because Dragonite was starting to wall me, and it was pretty annoying. That problem should be gone now, and it adds to the Type coverage.

Pros: Excellent Bulk allows this thing to tank hits like a Pro, and great support moves help it earn the name of "The Gratitude Pokemon." My Pokemon always love having their ailments cured. It's got awesome all around stats, and can function in many roles, capable of performing some mini-sweeps, and often supporting the team in big ways. Lack of a full on recovery move stops it from being completely flawless, but it gets the job done. This adorable little bugger is often times completely under-estimated, and I always love watching my opponents squirm as their "Counter" Falls drastically short of a KO, thanks Shaymin's considerable Bulk; while being able to return fire for a KO. Great Type Coverage as well, this will rip through many unsuspecting Sand Storm Teams.

Cons: Typing...Grass is the single worst defensive type ever. Ice, Bug, Fire, Flying, Poison. (Note sure, but I believe there's more.) Ice and Fire are both very common moves, and so is Bug with Scizor and Flygon (Hypocritical?). Often times these weaknesses are the only reasons I'm forced to switch, often times giving my opponent free set up. It's also subject to Status conditions, having no immunity to any of them, and as such, can sometimes be difficult to launch aromatherapy when i need it. (Natural Cure helps with this though.) It can be walled somewhat easily, particularly by Flying Types, and so I added HP Ice in place of Leech seed to assist in this.

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I wanted to point out one glaring weakness before I sign off. Entry Hazards. When my opponent gets the chance to fully set-up (which they almost always do) I find myself hurting quite quickly, and falling hard in my tracks. I desperately need a spinner, but dont' know which one to use, nor who to replace for it. Also, the team is a tad bit Skarm weak atm.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Sabeta

[Sabeta]

Reserved for Threat List

Offensive Threats

Aerodactyl:

• Lead: Easy to take care of. Scizor, Vaporeon, and Swampert all counter him.
  
• Life Orb: Slightly harder, but for the most part, see above.
  

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Alakazam:

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Azelf:

• Lead: Scizor and Flygon handle it relatively well. Swampert can check it, but doesn't fully counter.
  
• Dual Screener: See above
  
• Life Orb Sweeper: See Above; Can be slightly problematic
  
• Choice Specs:Lock it into a move, Switch and kill with Scizor.
  

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Breloom:

• Sub Puncher (Two Attacks): Tricky, but Shaymin can usually handle it. If not, breaking it's sub then Revenge killing is my only option.
  
• Sub Puncher (Seeder): Shaymin walls this and can kill it with Hidden Power [ice]
  
• Swords Dance: I can usually beat it, but it can be extremely problematic. Will often KO something.
  

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Dragonite:

• Bulkynite:Somewhat difficult. Swampert with most of its health can Avalanche this.Otherwise HP Ice Shaymin should do the trick.
  
• DDnite: See above, but more hazardous
  
• Choicenite: Predict or Revenge. Easy enough.
  

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Dugtrio:

• Revenge Killer:Zero threat. Most Pokemon can escape, if not, they will often have some sort of protection (See, Substitute)
  

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Electivire:

• It's Super Effective!:Only potentially dangerous with a speed boost. Relatively easy.
  
• Specially based Mix: NEVER seen one. I'm assuming I can beat though, partially for that reason.
  

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Empoleon:

• Agilisweeper: Even Swampert can take this out (Grass knot included). No threat.
  
• Sub Petaya: Mildly annoying set. Usually can't cause too much panic, because once it gets that low, I simply have to break the sub.
  

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Flygon:

• Scarfgon:Typically not a problem.
  
• Band(wa)gon:See above
  

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Gengar:

• Scarfgar:No threats here. Bait Shadow ball, and let Scizor clean up the mess.
  
• Subsplit:Only a threat if I play stupidly. Otherwise it's green.
  

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Gyarados:

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Heatran:

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Heracross:

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Infernape:

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Jirachi:

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Jolteon:

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Kingdra:

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Lucario:

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Machamp:

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Magnezone:

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Mamoswine:

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Metagross:

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Porygon-Z:

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Rhyperior:

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Scizor:

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Starmie:

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Togekiss:

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Tyranitar:

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Weavile:

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Yanmega:

Defensive Threat List:

Blissey:

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Bronzong:

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Celebi:

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Cresselia:

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Donphan:

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Forretress:

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Gliscor:

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Hippowdon:

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Skarmory:

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Snorlax:

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Suicune:

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Swampert:

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Tentacruel:

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Vaporeon:

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Zapdos:

Edited October 5, 2010 by Sabeta
Empoleon, Heracross, Forretress spelled wrong...

[Tbird]

I know you're yet to do your threat list but it's getting late and I'm antsy to get my rate on .

Team at a Glance

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Scizor (M) @ Choice Band

Trait: Swarm

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

- U-turn

- Bullet Punch

- Superpower

- Pursuit

Firstly, I'm really not a fan of scizor as a lead. The problem being it does nothing that a lead wants to do. There's no denying scizor is so much pwn that it's stopped being funny, alas this job it can not do. Simply being, it does a whole lot nothing other than hitting stuff. Personally I would slap Swampert in his place and vice versa.

Realistically speaking, with this lead, the opponent will jump for joy as it can do whatever it wants. Most just wanna get rocks out, and this gives them prime opportunity to do so.

So yeah in my eyes, Swampert wants to go here.

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Swampert (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Torrent

EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef

Relaxed/ Sassy Nature

- Roar/ Yawn

- Stealth Rock

- Earthquake

- Avalanche/ Surf/ Ice Beam

Yeah seriously swampert is begging to be in lead position . I'd apply these changes and just let him be there. You're yet to post his description at this point, so I don't know if your curse/ avalanche set is something crucial to team, but it wouldn't appear to be.

I'm sure you already know there merits of a swampert lead. And your team looks like it would be able to support its short comings. Also, slapping yawn here can help with machamp problem. A sleeping machamp isn't one that's gonna pose a lot of problems... Unless he's a guts version ... then run away lol.

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Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Levitate

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)/ Niave

- U-turn

- Outrage

- Earthquake

- Crunch/ Fire Blast

Fire blast could help with the skarmory problem. It's guaranteed a 2HKO if you run niave, and has a high chance of getting a 2HKO on even specially defensive variants. Not really a whole lot to say here, flygon really is an awesome scouter.

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Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Water Absorb

EVs: 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Wish

- Protect

- Surf

- Hidden Power [Electric]

Yup I'm with you on vaporeon over suicune. I too have a distaste to rest-talking . However, in saying that, suicune does appear to pose some problems to the team. At the moment your only roarer is Heatran, who is weak to suicune so won't be roaring it out any time soon. (moar reason to give swampy roar). Aside from that, I like this set.

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Heatran (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Flash Fire

EVs: 56 HP / 100 Def / 252 Spd / 100 SDef

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Fire Blast

- Substitute

- Explosion/Dragon Pulse

- Earthpower

This set really does look like a jack-of-all sort of thing. With your only viable attacking option being fire blast, you're getting completely walled by other heatran... who are very very very common atm, if you've not seen already .

However, I do like the premise of a substitute + 3 attacks set for heatran. However, with that you'll need moar muscle power. Which is something I fear your team lacks at the moment. So Heatran could provide that. I don't know what you're aiming for with the current EV's, but I would recommend for a sub+3 to max out that special attack, maybe lose a little speed and pump the HP a little more.

Without testing I don't know for sure, but heatran's great bulk would appear to outway its need for speed.

I also see other heatran switching in on this a lot expecting the fire blast, however, when you sub on the switch you'll readily OHKO them while they break your sub.

I wouldn't know an exact figure off the top of my head for the EVs for it to be workable but I would imagine being able to OHKO flygon and dragonite with Dragon pulse would be a good start, whilst being able to live some water attacks.

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Shaymin @ Leftovers

Trait: Natural Cure

EVs: 216 HP / 252 Spd / 40 SAtk

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Aromatherapy

- Leech Seed

- Earth Power

- Seed Flare

Yup I like it a lot. Shaymins rest + 3 attacks works really well too. People have wiped me out with that. However, the aromatherapy that this set provides seems to be needed.

What I see with this team is that you have a really strong defensive core but little utilisation of it. A roserade lead could bring in some Tspikes for your bulky mons to work with while the opponent cries in pain. If you went that route Torment Tran would seem to be a cool idea, with a rotom form.

Similarly, while you're not being hit hard, you're not dishing out a whole lot either. So maybe you could try to reconfigure some EVs To make them bulky sweepers. I know your swampert enjoyed that role, but honestly the teams in dire need of a lead, and until you find one to replace scizor, swampert really wants to be there.

With flygon on team, scizor's luster is somewhat lost too. CB BP will always be damning, but at the moment that's all he provides with extra scounting privileges. So if you're looking for a spinner, then forry could take the place quite happily, who can also rack up more entry hazards.

I don't know, the team looks solid, but doesn't look like it can dish out enough.

I also get the feeling an offensive core of Infernape/Suicune/breloom could be problematic too.

Erm. I guess the last thing I would say, is that I would utilise that great defence you have by adding to the team a spinner and a spin blocker and a Tspiker. Forretress + Rotom + Roserade or Tentacruel + Gengar w/ the swampert lead. But as you said, finding the room isn't easy

EDIT:

If you're keeping scizor atleast give it technician

[randomspot555]

Why not move Flygon up onto the lead spot and scout with U-Turn? It'll outspeed everything, scoring SE on Azelf and breaking the Sash on Aero.

Heatran is running a pretty bulky set and a ATK hindering nature, so why not ditch Explosion and replace it with Earth Power or Toxic?

[Gin]

Mmm

My first impression iis that of a UU team. "WHAT?!?!!?"you say. "What an idiot that Gin is, there's not a single UU on the team!"

Well, let's look at it closely.

Fire/water/grass core. Bulky Water/ground. 1(One) Scarf'd poke, preferably with Uturn. 1(One) Specs/Band poke. Anyway, it looks like Ape will wreck some havoc here, along with Starmie, the terror of FWG cores. Go with the Suggestions TBird has made, but to tell you the truth, I don't really see how you use this team. If you get on Shoddy, I'll be able to find out.. (HINT HINT)... What else, I think you're a bit bulkNite weak, and you're DEFINITELY STALL WEAK. (Of course, if you're using this in Smoggy, don't worry about that, noone uses stall much right now)

[Sabeta]

1) Yes; I do know I'm extremely Stall Weak, which is why I need a spinner on this team. It's not even funny how badly I need it lol.

2) Mixnape doesn't pose a threat to me, like at all. Not even the Nasty Plot version scares me.

+2 Grass Knot vs Vaporeon

67.9% - 79.9% (Vaporeon for me is almost always at 80%, and if she's just under the bar, using protect will help.)

+0 Surf vs Infernape

100.3% - 118.8%

+0 Flare Blitz vs Shaymin

56.9% - 67.3%

+0 Earth Power vs Infernape

71.7% - 84.6% (Seriously, what 'Nape isn't at 80%Below)

It can provide minor trouble at times, but in general the two Pokemon he wants to target mostly on my team (Bar Swampert, whom he doesn't need to set up on to kill) wont be OHKO'd by him, while I can return fire to him nearly every time.

Also, Flygon handles him quiet well.

3) Bulk nite isn't a huge issue, Flygon can get rid of him with Outrage, especially if he's locked into one of his own, but more often than not he'll get away with a KO. Any suggestions for a definitive counter to him?

4) Starmie isn't a huge threat either, Swampert does a decent job at walling it, so long as it doesn't scream HP [Grass] at me (In which case, it lacks Ice Beam, boo yah Flygon and Shaymin come to the rescue, Flygon especially because U-Turn practically destroys it.)

@Randomspot: I really like the prospect of using Flygon as a Lead. I'll try it out and see what kind of results I get. Thank you for the suggestion.

@T-Bird; I agree with the majority of what you said; I was looking for something fix Heatran up, I don't fear enemy Flygon much, Max Special Attack Tran only does 80% anyway with Dragon Pulse, HP [ice] would be better. It OHKOs them both, but I'll need to have my Sub set up in order to do anything, that or start running that Ground reducing berry. I think I'll make a good number of the tweaks you suggested, and take a look at that. With those changes, Scizor is free to leave now; should I ditch him for Forretress? He can whip out Spikes, Spin them away, and can even surprise Ghosts with Payback.

I just checked; Hidden Power Ice Always OHKOs Dragonite and Flygon, both Pokemon like to switch in on Heatran because he commonly only runs two moves, if even that. This is without ANY Special Attack investment, so I'm going to check the minimum needed to One Shot Skarmory, and possibly some other problematic Pokemon.

=sabedit=

Nevermind...I just realized that I forgot to turn off the +2 special attack from the Infernape tests. >.> Turns out it's impossible to OHKO Dragonite with a Heatran, so I gave him 188 Special Attack Evs. This enables him to hit a minimum of 75.6% Damage to it; 100% if you factor in Stealth Rocks (Which I almost arbitrarily will.) Flygon is still being one-shotted. Same with Skarmory. Jirachi is dropped in one shot. And that's all of the threats that he can check off the top of my head. Now to distrbute the rest of the Evs.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Sabeta

[Gin]

Note that Starmie busts through Swampert with the now standard Grass Knot. Surf beats Tran, Ice Beam will hurt Shaymin, TBolt/Gknot for Vap.

I was experimenting a bit some time back, and I think you should try out WoW Heatran. It beats Dragonite if played correctly, and has AMAZING survivability. If any physical attackers come in (read heatran's counters except, like, Starmie), you can easily defang them. It's not standard, but I thought I'd give you the heads up. Mixape beats everything but 2(two) pokes, and with HP Ice and good prediction, then 1 poke.

[Sabeta]

Well I fought many Starmie and Infernape today while laddering, both on PO and Shoddy, and I didn't have trouble with them. They are moderate threats though (See orange), but as of yet I've defeated them with relative ease.

[Tbird]

It can provide minor trouble at times, but in general the two Pokemon he wants to target mostly on my team (Bar Swampert, whom he doesn't need to set up on to kill) wont be OHKO'd by him, while I can return fire to him nearly every time.

Also, Flygon handles him quiet well. < yeah you seem to have him covered. Problem being, he does out speed a lot of pokes on your team, vappy might be able to take one grass knot, but if that's the one she's switching in on then vappy goes down .

3) Bulk nite isn't a huge issue, Flygon can get rid of him with Outrage, especially if he's locked into one of his own, but more often than not he'll get away with a KO. Any suggestions for a definitive counter to him? < good old Forry can do the job, should D nite lack Fire Blast

4) Starmie isn't a huge threat either, Swampert does a decent job at walling it, so long as it doesn't scream HP [Grass] at me (In which case, it lacks Ice Beam, boo yah Flygon and Shaymin come to the rescue, Flygon especially because U-Turn practically destroys it.) << If you can switch in on T bolt you should be fine, and a lot do run it so you should be able to find an opening for flygon there. One thing I will suggest is instead of scouting with vappy before the switch (I assume vappy will come in on the surf aimed at heatran) simply double switch to flygon on the in coming Tbolt. Grass knot will hurt however .

@Randomspot: I really like the prospect of using Flygon as a Lead. I'll try it out and see what kind of results I get. Thank you for the suggestion. << As a lead it'll function pretty much the same as your Scizor does.

@T-Bird; I agree with the majority of what you said (Yay for me ); I was looking for something fix Heatran up, I don't fear enemy Flygon much, Max Special Attack Tran only does 80% anyway with Dragon Pulse, HP [ice] would be better. It OHKOs them both, but I'll need to have my Sub set up in order to do anything, that or start running that Ground reducing berry. << shuca would be the berry. And finding a chance to get sub up should be easy as pie. Simply switch into a banded BP or Pursuit, or any forrestress/ Skarmory. ~Hell infernape's fire blast which is common as hell give you prime opportunity. I know full well if I see heatran, that is going to be a scarftran. So my ass is switching to something that flies, and I too carry a flygon. so, you can either risk it and fire off a HP ice blindly in that situation, or set sub up, flygon comes in, HP Ice kills it readily. And you've lost 25% as opposed to the 100% you could have lost. OR, if flygon sees you're up to something dirty, it'll switch out, the counter will take the HP ice (probably expecting dragon pulse) SR damage and hopefully spike damage, leaving them at really, a maximum of ~70%, which puts almost anything in prime Heatran killing range.

I think I'll make a good number of the tweaks you suggested, and take a look at that. With those changes, Scizor is free to leave now; should I ditch him for Forretress? He can whip out Spikes, Spin them away, and can even surprise Ghosts with Payback. << Yes I like this idea very much

=sabedit=

Nevermind...I just realized that I forgot to turn off the +2 special attack from the Infernape tests. >.> Turns out it's impossible to OHKO Dragonite with a Heatran, so I gave him 188 Special Attack Evs. This enables him to hit a minimum of 75.6% Damage to it; 100% if you factor in Stealth Rocks (Which I almost arbitrarily will.) Flygon is still being one-shotted. Same with Skarmory. Jirachi is dropped in one shot. And that's all of the threats that he can check off the top of my head. Now to distrbute the rest of the Evs. << Awesome

I hope the changes you take on board become beneficial in some form... I mean that's the reason we rate right?

It's definitely starting to look more ... polished? I dunno but it's looking good none the less .

[Sabeta]

Flygon as a Lead works marvels. I'm loving it, it also has a surprising amount of longevity to keep me through most of the battle, in fact sometimes he's last man standing, and will pull off the Outrage sweep needed to cinch the win. Also, Roar is amazing on Swampy. Here's a brief example of how it saved my ass today.

1)Flygon vs Ninjask (I know the first turn is always protect, I switch)

Ninjask used Protect

Sabeta sent in Scizor

Bullet punch knocked a lot of health away, before a sub showed up.

switched to Swampert in aticipation of another protect.

Set up rocks, he baton passes to kingdra.

I use roar, he uses Dragon dance, he shoots back to ninjask, and it faints. I lolled so hard.

New Heatran is good, but sometimes Blissey or Roosting Dragonite just wont die. I'm replacing Hp Ice with Explosion, so he can knock those down in emergencies.

I have yet to implement forrey, i'm going to update this soon, once I play around with it some more.

[marypabla]

Wow, I got what I was searching for, keep it up, thanks for the kind info!

[Sabeta]

Wow, I got what I was searching for, keep it up, thanks for the kind info!

If you say this in hopes of recreating this team, I would 1) Tell you to wait a week or so, so that you can view the final product and 2) Please give credit to me whenever you discuss this team with another person.

Sidenote: For those of you who read the Smog you might be aware of their current Featured OU RMT "Enclose, macblahspanishIdon'tknow." Just the other day I fought a noob on Pokemon Online who had copied it to the letter, and even though it was/is the #1 Ou team atm; This guy couldn't play it worth crap, and was owned 6-0. Just thought I'd share that little tid-bit.

I'm going to test Foretress sometime today, see if he works better than scizor.

[Tbird]

Well if you wanna test it against me just PM and we can try it out .

...Please... I'm bored out of my mind

[Sabeta]

I'll boot up Shoddy, lol. I'm playing Luna Online, so I may be slow to respond.

[Sabeta]

<Bump Post>

I've updated the Main Post. I need to figure out the new Ev Spreads I'm using from PO. Too lazy atm. Rate and whatever, thanks, g'night.

[Ky0gre]

5/6 Pokemon of your team get hurt by spikes, you have no spinner and skarmory can set up spikes on 3 pokemon of your team. This might be a problem.

Another thing I notice is that you have no pokemon that is resistent to fighting moves. Maybe you could test Starmie > Heatran.

And Crunch on flygon sucks. Play Thunderpunch to revengekill Gyarados or Fire Blast to hurt Skarmory.

[Sabeta]

I'm fully aware of all of these problems, in particular the spikes one. There is nothing I can do really to solve the spikes isshu, short of replacing Scizor with Forretress, and that ruins a good chunk of Synergy.

[randomspot555]

What about replacing Vaporeon with Tentacruel? You lose out on Wish pass and healing with Water Absorb. But you gain a Rapid Spinner and even if spin-blocked, it soaks up Toxic Spikes automatically. It's also a perfect counter to Seed-Punch Breloom isnce it resists Fighting and will cause damage if Leech Seeded.

[Sabeta]

Hmm, tempting. I might just try it out. I still need to finish this bloody thing, lol.

[wraith89]

I noticed Swampert was Hardy Natured (neutral) and Scizor running Swarm instead of Technician. What would be the logic to that? (Okay, for the latter I guess it powers up U-turn at lower health at the expense of a more powerful Bullet Punch and Pursuit... but for the most part I'd say Technician is better). As for Swampert, you are not running any Special Attacks so you may as well use Impish (+ Def - SpA) or Careful nature (+ SpDef - SpA)... just pointing some quirks I've noticed in your RMT.

[Sabeta]

Oh yeah, those were some issues with this. It was because Pokemon Online hides the ability panel, so I didn't think to switch to technician, as for Swampert I just plain forgot to give it a decent nature. If I'm not mistaken originally it had no item either.

[Gin]

Do you want to keep this active, or should I lock it?

[Sabeta]

Active for now. I still have plans to fix this up. I'll actually get this doing now.

Here's a Warstory, so you can see how it performs. I was worried about Gyarados, since my flawless Gyara Counter isn't on the team anymore. I'm not going to add commentary or any of that good stuff, it's here for pure informational purposes.

The unique ID for this battle is {2010-09-30-09:35:27}.

Wastum sent out Swizzle (lvl 100 Swampert ♂)!

sabeta_sama sent out Flygon (lvl 100 Flygon ♂)!

===============

Begin turn #1

Flygon used U-turn!

Swizzle lost 12% of its health!

sabeta_sama withdrew Flygon!

sabeta_sama sent out Shaymin (lvl 100 Shaymin)!

Flygon went back to sabeta_sama!

Swizzle used Ice Beam!

It's super effective!

Shaymin lost 128/404 (31%) of its health!

Swizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #2

Wastum withdrew Swizzle!

Wastum sent out Gizzle (lvl 100 Gengar ♂)!

Shaymin used Seed Flare!

It's not very effective...

Gizzle lost 35% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #3

Shaymin used Seed Flare!

It's not very effective...

Gizzle lost 37% of its health!

Gizzle used Hidden Power!

It's super effective!

Shaymin lost 234/404 (57%) of its health!

Gizzle lost 10% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #4

Wastum withdrew Gizzle!

Wastum sent out Scizzle (lvl 100 Scizor ♂)!

Shaymin used Seed Flare!

It's not very effective...

Scizzle lost 14% of its health!

Scizzle's special defence was harshly lowered!

Scizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Scizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #5

sabeta_sama withdrew Shaymin!

sabeta_sama sent out Tentacruel (lvl 100 Tentacruel ♂)!

Scizzle used Bullet Punch!

It's not very effective...

Tentacruel lost 60/364 (16%) of its health!

Tentacruel's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Tentacruel regained 22/364 (6%) of its health!

Scizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Scizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #6

Wastum withdrew Scizzle!

Wastum sent out Swizzle (lvl 100 Swampert ♂)!

Tentacruel used Hydro Pump!

Swizzle lost 29% of its health!

Tentacruel's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Tentacruel regained 22/364 (6%) of its health!

Swizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #7

Tentacruel used Toxic Spikes!

Toxic Spikes were scattered around the foe's team!

Swizzle used Stealth Rock!

Pointed stones float in the air around your foe's team!

Tentacruel's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Tentacruel regained 16/364 (4%) of its health!

Swizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #8

Tentacruel used Toxic Spikes!

Toxic Spikes were scattered around the foe's team!

Swizzle used Earthquake!

It's super effective!

Tentacruel lost 294/364 (80%) of its health!

Tentacruel's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Tentacruel regained 22/364 (6%) of its health!

Swizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #9

sabeta_sama withdrew Tentacruel!

sabeta_sama sent out Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Swampert!

Swampert lost 25/401 (6%) of its health!

Swizzle used Roar!

sabeta_sama sent out Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Scizor!

Scizor lost 42/343 (12%) of its health!

Swizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #10

Scizor used U-turn!

Swizzle lost 41% of its health!

sabeta_sama withdrew Scizor!

sabeta_sama sent out Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Swampert!

Swampert lost 25/401 (6%) of its health!

Scizor went back to sabeta_sama!

Swizzle used Roar!

sabeta_sama sent out Flygon (lvl 100 Flygon ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Flygon!

Flygon lost 18/301 (5%) of its health!

Swizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #11

Wastum withdrew Swizzle!

Wastum sent out Blazzle (lvl 100 Blastoise ♂)!

Blazzle was badly poisoned!

Blazzle was badly poisoned by the Toxic Spikes!

Flygon used U-turn!

Blazzle lost 12% of its health!

sabeta_sama withdrew Flygon!

sabeta_sama sent out Shaymin (lvl 100 Shaymin)!

Pointed stones dug into Shaymin!

Shaymin lost 42/404 (10%) of its health!

Shaymin fainted!

Flygon went back to sabeta_sama!

Blazzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Blazzle regained 6% of its health!

Blazzle is hurt by poison!

Blazzle lost 6% of its health!

sabeta_sama sent out Tentacruel (lvl 100 Tentacruel ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Tentacruel!

Tentacruel lost 45/364 (12%) of its health!

===============

Begin turn #12

Tentacruel used Sludge Bomb!

Blazzle lost 25% of its health!

Blazzle used Rapid Spin!

Tentacruel lost 15/364 (4%) of its health!

Blazzle blew away the Toxic Spikes!

Tentacruel's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Tentacruel regained 22/364 (6%) of its health!

Blazzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Blazzle regained 6% of its health!

Blazzle is hurt by poison!

Blazzle lost 12% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #13

Tentacruel used Sludge Bomb!

Blazzle lost 22% of its health!

Blazzle used Yawn!

Tentacruel became drowsy!

Tentacruel's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Tentacruel regained 22/364 (6%) of its health!

Blazzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Blazzle regained 6% of its health!

Blazzle is hurt by poison!

Blazzle lost 18% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #14

Blazzle used Protect!

Blazzle protected itself!

Tentacruel used Sludge Bomb!

Blazzle protected itself!

Tentacruel's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Tentacruel regained 22/364 (6%) of its health!

Tentacruel fell asleep!

Blazzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Blazzle regained 6% of its health!

Blazzle is hurt by poison!

Blazzle lost 25% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #15

Wastum withdrew Blazzle!

Wastum sent out Blizzle (lvl 100 Blissey ♀)!

Tentacruel is fast asleep.

Tentacruel's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Tentacruel regained 22/364 (6%) of its health!

===============

Begin turn #16

Tentacruel is fast asleep.

Blizzle used Aromatherapy!

Blazzle was cured of Poison!

Tentacruel's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Tentacruel regained 22/364 (6%) of its health!

===============

Begin turn #17

Tentacruel is fast asleep.

Blizzle used Seismic Toss!

Tentacruel lost 100/364 (27%) of its health!

Tentacruel's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Tentacruel regained 22/364 (6%) of its health!

===============

Begin turn #18

Tentacruel is fast asleep.

Blizzle used Seismic Toss!

Tentacruel lost 64/364 (17%) of its health!

Tentacruel fainted!

sabeta_sama sent out Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Scizor!

Scizor lost 42/343 (12%) of its health!

===============

Begin turn #19

Wastum withdrew Blizzle!

Wastum sent out Swizzle (lvl 100 Swampert ♂)!

Scizor used Bullet Punch!

It's not very effective...

Swizzle lost 16% of its health!

Swizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #20

sabeta_sama withdrew Scizor!

sabeta_sama sent out Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Swampert!

Swampert lost 25/401 (6%) of its health!

Swizzle used Earthquake!

Swampert lost 102/401 (25%) of its health!

Swizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swizzle regained 6% of its health!

Swampert's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swampert regained 25/401 (6%) of its health!

===============

Begin turn #21

Swizzle used Roar!

sabeta_sama sent out Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Heatran!

Heatran lost 40/323 (12%) of its health!

Heatran's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Heatran regained 20/323 (6%) of its health!

Swizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #22

Heatran used Explosion!

Heatran lost 303/323 (93%) of its health!

Heatran fainted!

Swizzle lost 56% of its health!

Swizzle fainted!

sabeta_sama sent out Flygon (lvl 100 Flygon ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Flygon!

Flygon lost 18/301 (5%) of its health!

Wastum sent out Blizzle (lvl 100 Blissey ♀)!

===============

Begin turn #23

Wastum withdrew Blizzle!

Wastum sent out Scizzle (lvl 100 Scizor ♂)!

Flygon used Outrage!

It's not very effective...

Scizzle lost 31% of its health!

Scizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Scizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #24

Scizzle used Bullet Punch!

Flygon lost 138/301 (45%) of its health!

Flygon used Outrage!

A critical hit!

It's not very effective...

Scizzle lost 58% of its health!

Flygon became confused due to fatigue!

Flygon became confused!

Scizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Scizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #25

sabeta_sama withdrew Flygon!

sabeta_sama sent out Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Swampert!

Swampert lost 25/401 (6%) of its health!

Scizzle used Bullet Punch!

It's not very effective...

Swampert lost 50/401 (12%) of its health!

Scizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Scizzle regained 6% of its health!

Swampert's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swampert regained 25/401 (6%) of its health!

===============

Begin turn #26

Wastum withdrew Scizzle!

Wastum sent out Gizzle (lvl 100 Gengar ♂)!

Swampert used Stealth Rock!

Pointed stones float in the air around your foe's team!

Swampert's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swampert regained 25/401 (6%) of its health!

===============

Begin turn #27

Gizzle used Shadow Ball!

Swampert lost 181/401 (45%) of its health!

Gizzle lost 10% of its health!

Swampert used Avalanche!

Gizzle lost 8% of its health!

Gizzle fainted!

Swampert's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Swampert regained 25/401 (6%) of its health!

Wastum sent out Blazzle (lvl 100 Blastoise ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Blazzle!

Blazzle lost 2% of its health!

Blazzle fainted!

Wastum sent out Blizzle (lvl 100 Blissey ♀)!

Pointed stones dug into Blizzle!

Blizzle lost 12% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #28

Blizzle used Seismic Toss!

Swampert lost 68/401 (16%) of its health!

Swampert fainted!

Blizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Blizzle regained 6% of its health!

sabeta_sama sent out Flygon (lvl 100 Flygon ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Flygon!

Flygon lost 18/301 (5%) of its health!

===============

Begin turn #29

Flygon used Outrage!

Blizzle lost 43% of its health!

Blizzle used Seismic Toss!

Flygon lost 100/301 (33%) of its health!

Blizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Blizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #30

Flygon used Outrage!

Blizzle lost 41% of its health!

Flygon became confused due to fatigue!

Flygon became confused!

Blizzle used Seismic Toss!

Flygon lost 9/301 (2%) of its health!

Flygon fainted!

Blizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Blizzle regained 6% of its health!

sabeta_sama sent out Scizor (lvl 100 Scizor ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Scizor!

Scizor lost 42/343 (12%) of its health!

===============

Begin turn #31

Scizor used Bullet Punch!

Blizzle lost 20% of its health!

Blizzle fainted!

Wastum sent out Scizzle (lvl 100 Scizor ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Scizzle!

Scizzle lost 12% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #32

Scizzle used Bullet Punch!

It's not very effective...

Scizor lost 58/343 (16%) of its health!

Scizor used Bullet Punch!

It's not very effective...

Scizzle lost 12% of its health!

Scizzle fainted!

Wastum sent out Dragonizzle (lvl 100 Dragonite ♂)!

Pointed stones dug into Dragonizzle!

Dragonizzle lost 25% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #33

Scizor used Bullet Punch!

Dragonizzle lost 45% of its health!

Dragonizzle used Earthquake!

Scizor lost 106/343 (30%) of its health!

Dragonizzle's Leftovers restored its health a little!

Dragonizzle regained 6% of its health!

===============

Begin turn #34

Scizor used Bullet Punch!

Dragonizzle lost 35% of its health!

Dragonizzle fainted!

Edit: Updated main post.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Sabeta

[Sabeta]

=Double Post=

I'm thinking about replacing Heatran with Infernape. I realized that, due to having a lack of ANY mixed attacker, I leave myself vulnerable to the cliche antics of Skarm Bliss. Although, I am still worried about Gyara, does this team have a check for him? I don't encounter enough to be sure. (For now, I've just been out predicting them, to barely scrape by, all 2 of them I've fought.). Most other threats seem reasonably in check. Machamp is still a bit of a nuisance. I would love to use a Rotom Forme, as it answers both of those problems in one Pokemon, but lack of AR prevents me from doing any such thing. I also want to keep this general core going though, as it's been kind to me in battle, and so I'm reluctant to make any drastic changes. (I was honestly torn at losing vappy, she's been so incredibly useful, lol, but Tenta was more needed)

[Tbird]

Really quicjkly I'd say HP electric over sludge bomb so you can hit gyara (so long as it lacks EQ)