Pokemon Colosseum/XD Legal Checking Tools

[Bond697]

This drama is stupid seriously. But, I will say that, from my perspective, Kaph made it clear shaym.in wasn't his, both in the link he gave me and in his posts regarding it. I would dig up quotes but I don't think I need bother.
But enough on the source code as I'm uninvolved. The "list" is an excellent idea in my opinion, and Bond, I don't see why you would doubt its effectiveness. As a member on the list myself, one which does not seem to represent an "elite" group but rather those who know slight more about RNG in general, I fully support this measure to moderate hacking. Obviously it would only work on Smogon because no other place is strict enough.

you are completely external to this and are absolutely clueless as to what you're talking about.

and not that i need to, but:

http://img.thundaga.com/c.png

yes, very clear. removing the author's name and copyright is very clear as to what is being implied.

and if you honestly think a list of people like that is a good thing, there's nothing to talk about. actually, the irony here is that the person who wants this list and is so "concerned" about hacking is the one who literally wrote a guide on how to hack seeds in gen 3 and "rng" stuff using that. then he gave it out to some little circle of his. he then tried to cover it up when it got leaked to people outside his little group. it's really beyond hypocritical.

[arcee]

This drama is stupid seriously. But, I will say that, from my perspective, Kaph made it clear shaym.in wasn't his, both in the link he gave me and in his posts regarding it. I would dig up quotes but I don't think I need bother.

Oh please.
No, he did not. I've seen that app every day since it was first put up, and he did not add the disclaimer until Bond called him out on it yesterday.

The "list" is an excellent idea in my opinion, and Bond, I don't see why you would doubt its effectiveness. As a member on the list myself, one which does not seem to represent an "elite" group but rather those who know slight more about RNG in general, I fully support this measure to moderate hacking. Obviously it would only work on Smogon because no other place is strict enough.

No, it's a stupid idea. Pokemon don't just circulate on Smogon; they often come from other forums, where guess what? People can RNG! And even if they do it legitimately, they'll be marked as hackers because they're not on a list they weren't even aware of.
Not everyone who can/will learn to abuse gc is on smogon. Kindly remove your head from those idealistic clouds.

[Tombstoner]

As for the whole credit thing, I'm just saying what I saw. Yes, I'm external to it, but he did say:

I rigged up a PID/IV generator heavily based on Method 1/J/K IV/Stat/Legality Checker that will allow me to do GC PID's (XD/Colo/GC Events). No plans on sharing with the public.

That's clear enough for me.

People can RNG! And even if they do it legitimately, they'll be marked as hackers because they're not on a list they weren't even aware of.

You're really not getting the point (or I'm reading this wrong.) Yeah they can, but Smogon's strict enough to differentiate the hackers from those who aren't (how besides what they already do? well, the list.) And as I said, the list is not an elite group; the way I see it (which is what matters as things haven't been fully set up yet,) it's that it's proof you can RNG and you're in. Not on Smogon? Well, there's more hacks out there anyway.

Besides, people can choose whether or not to pay attention to the list. If you're in the list, it's simply a mark that you (at least very likely) get your stuff legitly.

EDIT: Missed this

actually, the irony here is that the person who wants this list and is so "concerned" about hacking is the one who literally wrote a guide on how to hack seeds in gen 3 and "rng" stuff using that.

That's a completely different matter honestly. RAM hacking for RNG purposes is a subject of controversy and in the opinions of some it is not "hacking the Pokémon." I'm not going to follow any side argument about this any further.

[Bond697]

As for the whole credit thing, I'm just saying what I saw. Yes, I'm external to it, but he did say:

That's clear enough for me.

you can't really be that dense.

and no, it's not. the person who wants this list to exist has proven multiple times he has no problem with hacking stuff. the list is to prevent hacking. it doesn't take a genius to see the irony.

e: not to mention, anyone on this ridiculous list can hack stuff anyway. you really can't know what you're getting from them. it's not like there's any shortage of info or code examples.

[xfr]

To be back on the topic of the XD RNG I would like to point out that it does not cover all the colo/XD Pokémon.

For instance, all Poké Spots Pokémon on XD do not use this method. I tried looking at surrounding PID frames on the reverse RNG but did not find anything obvious (like a swapped/skipped frame).
This probably deserves some investigation. Here are some examples:

Spoiler

http://www.pokecheck.org/?p=detail&uid=353115
http://www.pokecheck.org/?p=detail&uid=353113
http://www.pokecheck.org/?p=detail&uid=353131
http://www.pokecheck.org/?p=detail&uid=353118
http://www.pokecheck.org/?p=detail&uid=353121
http://www.pokecheck.org/?p=detail&uid=353125
http://www.pokecheck.org/?p=detail&uid=353122
http://www.pokecheck.org/?p=detail&uid=353127
http://www.pokecheck.org/?p=detail&uid=353129

Also, to those who say the Ageto disc is figured out, they are forgetting that there are two kind of Celebi: the one written directly to the Colosseum save file and the 50 you can subsequently transfer to the game boy directly. Only the second uses the comon GC method.
The Ageto Pikatchu also is not fully figured out yet.

[Tombstoner]

you can't really be that dense.

and no, it's not. the person who wants this list to exist has proven multiple times he has no problem with hacking stuff. the list is to prevent hacking. it doesn't take a genius to see the irony.

Now I see what Kaph meant; it seems to me you're just raging at whatever Kaph appears to do wrong and whoever doesn't blindly agree with you. Give me proof I'm really "that dense" to not ignore what he said.

And seriously? I don't care what he's said about hacking in the past, but Kaph made it clear that he wanted this program kept secret. What matters here isn't really where credit should be given; it's that you pulled the rug right out from under Kaph when he trusted you to not redistribute the program. The PID/IV calculator for Method 1/J/K was made public right away, allowing for tons of legal hacks. The community had the chance to keep people from hacking XD Pokes until you came along. The list is a less effective measure that he had to suggest because legal hacks can be made now.

[Bond697]

Now I see what Kaph meant; it seems to me you're just raging at whatever Kaph appears to do wrong and whoever doesn't blindly agree with you. Give me proof I'm really "that dense" to not ignore what he said.

And seriously? I don't care what he's said about hacking in the past, but Kaph made it clear that he wanted this program kept secret. What matters here isn't really where credit should be given; it's that you pulled the rug right out from under Kaph when he trusted you to not redistribute the program. The PID/IV calculator for Method 1/J/K was made public right away, allowing for tons of legal hacks. The community had the chance to keep people from hacking XD Pokes until you came along. The list is a less effective measure that he had to suggest because legal hacks can be made now.

guess what? secrecy and "dangerous" info are incredibly stupid. information and openness so people can educate themselves are the way to go. if he hadn't blatantly stolen something and then taken it and tried to keep parts of an open project secret, nothing would have happened.


also, wtf is wrong with you? proof, again:

http://img.thundaga.com/c.png

there, done.

[Tombstoner]

He took something and modified it because it was easier and faster than building one from scratch. That's reason enough for me.
And there's a difference between arguing and raging which you somehow fail to see. Just as you drove Kaph away rather than reaching a conclusion, you've driven me away. Not posting in this thread again about this issue. I'd like to see you try to say what you're saying now on Smogon.

And proof:
http://projectpokemon.org/forums/sho...l=1#post135973

"Done."

[Bond697]

He took something and modified it because it was easier and faster than building one from scratch. That's reason enough for me.
And there's a difference between arguing and raging which you somehow fail to see. Just as you drove Kaph away rather than reaching a conclusion, you've driven me away. Not posting in this thread again about this issue. I'd like to see you try to say what you're saying now on Smogon.

And proof:
http://projectpokemon.org/forums/sho...l=1#post135973

Done.

the program in the first post took an hour at most. i took a half hour last night and added more stuff to it. he easily could have made something himself, but he chose not to. he could have left all the copyright info and author's identity on there. he chose not to. he could have changed as little as possible and out that up clearly labelled, etc. he chose not to. i don't think i need to continue. it's pretty obvious.

and great job linking to a random post as "proof" of.. something?

[arcee]

You're really not getting the point (or I'm reading this wrong.) Yeah they can, but Smogon's strict enough to differentiate the hackers from those who aren't (how besides what they already do? well, the list.) And as I said, the list is not an elite group; the way I see it (which is what matters as things haven't been fully set up yet,) it's that it's proof you can RNG and you're in. Not on Smogon? Well, there's more hacks out there anyway.

Besides, people can choose whether or not to pay attention to the list. If you're in the list, it's simply a mark that you (at least very likely) get your stuff legitly.

So... you're saying that with the assumption that everything on smogon is wholly clean and legit, and everything not on smogon is obviously a hack.
I didn't think anyone could really be that ignorant. Not a chance.

That's a completely different matter honestly. RAM hacking for RNG purposes is a subject of controversy and in the opinions of some it is not "hacking the Pokémon." I'm not going to follow any side argument about this any further.

.. Do you even know how it works? If you did, you would definitely not say that.

He took something and modified it because it was easier and faster than building one from scratch.

That's fine....
... as long as you give proper credit, and don't, via the lack thereof, mislead people to think you wrote the entire thing.

[Tombstoner]

You guys are just unbelievable. The previous one was going to be my last post but you guys seriously need to read what I say before assuming I'm all for stealing source code and cavalierly looking down on non-Smogonites. And as one of the users known for bringing RAM hacking to the attention of many RNGers, yes, I know how it works, perhaps better than you do.

If this doesn't spell it out for you guys, then too bad: I don't support the two things above.

[randomspot555]

I won't pretend that I know what's going on in technical terms, but:

People with mod stars by their name: I expect a bit better behavior from you.

Kaphotics and Tombstone: If you want to leave, leave. No one is forcing you to post or login here.

Tombstone: No idea who you are. Being that this is the only thread you've ever posted in, think again before you post.

Keep petty squabbling off the public boards, please.